MK9 slide locking back issue

[*j-w-m*]

Got a new MK9 elite a couple of weeks ago and put 200 rounds through it with no problems at all. Then ordered the stainless steel guide rod from kahrshop.com and installed it as directed. I noticed when I put the gun back together that the slide release pin was harder to get back into place and had to tap it with a screwdriver handle to get it back in. Took the gun to the range today to test the new guide rod and now I can't get more than two shots off without the slide locking back, even with the magazine removed. Anyone got an idea what's happening here? I can't how the guide rod could cause this, but before I ship it back to Kahr would like some opinions from the experts here. Appreciate your help-

[Bawanna]

Got a new MK9 elite a couple of weeks ago and put 200 rounds through it with no problems at all. Then ordered the stainless steel guide rod from kahrshop.com and installed it as directed. I noticed when I put the gun back together that the slide release pin was harder to get back into place and had to tap it with a screwdriver handle to get it back in. Took the gun to the range today to test the new guide rod and now I can't get more than two shots off without the slide locking back, even with the magazine removed. Anyone got an idea what's happening here? I can't how the guide rod could cause this, but before I ship it back to Kahr would like some opinions from the experts here. Appreciate your help-

I don't see a relation between the guiderod and the slide locking back. Did you change your grip or ammo or anything else. Generally the slide locking back is operator accidently hitting it with their thumb. Quite common. If you had to tap the take down lever in this time and didn't before, sounds like your putting a bind on something. Everything else works as normal, slide retracts, goes fully into battery, (even with the mag out?) Make sure it has down pressure when you hold the slide back or take the slide off. Get back to us, we're all here to help.

[*j-w-m*]

I don't see a relation between the guiderod and the slide locking back. Did you change your grip or ammo or anything else. Generally the slide locking back is operator accidently hitting it with their thumb. Quite common. If you had to tap the take down lever in this time and didn't before, sounds like your putting a bind on something. Everything else works as normal, slide retracts, goes fully into battery, (even with the mag out?) Make sure it has down pressure when you hold the slide back or take the slide off. Get back to us, we're all here to help.


Thanks for your reply. I took it by the shop where I bought it and they test fired it and had the same problem, so I don't think it has to do with grip or operator error. They also agreed that the guide rod should have nothing to do with this problem. Could not find anything else out of the ordinary with its operation. Can you explain what you mean by "down pressure" and how this might play into it?

[Bawanna]

Thanks for your reply. I took it by the shop where I bought it and they test fired it and had the same problem, so I don't think it has to do with grip or operator error. They also agreed that the guide rod should have nothing to do with this problem. Could not find anything else out of the ordinary with its operation. Can you explain what you mean by "down pressure" and how this might play into it?

Just that the slide lock lever should have spring pressure on it. With the slide off or pulled back with no pressure on it, it should want to pull down towards the frame. With the slide off and the slide lock lever installed when you push the lever up it should want to pull right back down. There's a spring/keeper that holds the lever in place on the far side/ right side of the frame. It maintains the downward pressure. On my K40 I have to tap the pin out, it fits so tight. I've never heard of it but if you damaged that little spring clip that would just let the take down lever just flop around. I'm sure they would have caught this during a test fire so I'm probably not barking up the right tree but without a mag inserted and everything else being the same I dont see anything else it could be either. There's smart guys around here, lets wait for some other theories. Can't be too tough.

[hsart]

Another theory... possibly:
1. slide lock lever needs replacing
2. s-l spring needs replacing
3. recoil spring needs replacing - wonder whether the pm45 spring would work in the MK9
4. sacrifice the new guide rod to the gods and replace the old one since the gun was flawless with it in.
5. still entertain possibility of user error on the slide lock - either thumb

[Bawanna]

Another theory... possibly:
1. slide lock lever needs replacing
2. s-l spring needs replacing
3. recoil spring needs replacing - wonder whether the pm45 spring would work in the MK9
4. sacrifice the new guide rod to the gods and replace the old one since the gun was flawless with it in.
5. still entertain possibility of user error on the slide lock - either thumb

Good thoughts, I have to discount the lever since it worked fine before and unless something catastrophic broke it or bent it it should be ok.
I'd agree with 2 if the spring was damaged somehow when reassembled incorrectly although the pin goes into a hole so next to impossible to put it in wrong. 3 is a possibility although the gun is so new it shouldn't need one and it ran flawlessly first trip out, sudden failure difficult to grasp. I'd definitely try 4 and run the old guide rode to see if that fixes it. Free and easy. Darn good idea that one. And of course 5 could still be it although he did the right things and let someone else shoot it but they could be doing the same thing. If 4 doesn't cure it some left hand shooting might be in order. STill can't see a correlation between the guide rod and slide lock though. I'm perplexed.
Don't mean to be critical of your ideas, just sharing thoughts minimal as they may be. You could very well have nailed it with any one of them.
Now we just gotta know!

[*j-w-m*]

I'll check into the spring theories and post back. Unfortunately, to remove the old plastic guide rod I had to break it to remove it(as the instructions said to do) so I can't swap it back in. I like the ideas about the springs - I have a PM9 that hopefully has an identical setup so I can make a visual comparison and look for missing parts.

[jlottmc]

Sounds to me like a kinked/bound recoil spring, or a bent slide stop spring (use extreme caution when messing with this one), OE (operator error). I would also hesitate to change the recoil spring out with the pm45 assembly due to the pressure differences. If it is the slide stop spring, I would send it back to the mothership. The slide stop spring could have been inadvertently bent during dis-assembly/re-assembly. I would check the obvious first and then work my way to that one.

[*j-w-m*]

Should be OK to swap in a recoil spring from a PM9, right?

[jlottmc]

I would stay with the same caliber at least.

[hsart]

Good thoughts, I have to discount the lever since it worked fine before and unless something catastrophic broke it or bent it it should be ok.
I'd agree with 2 if the spring was damaged somehow when reassembled incorrectly although the pin goes into a hole so next to impossible to put it in wrong. 3 is a possibility although the gun is so new it shouldn't need one and it ran flawlessly first trip out, sudden failure difficult to grasp. I'd definitely try 4 and run the old guide rode to see if that fixes it. Free and easy. Darn good idea that one. And of course 5 could still be it although he did the right things and let someone else shoot it but they could be doing the same thing. If 4 doesn't cure it some left hand shooting might be in order. STill can't see a correlation between the guide rod and slide lock though. I'm perplexed.
Don't mean to be critical of your ideas, just sharing thoughts minimal as they may be. You could very well have nailed it with any one of them.
Now we just gotta know!
Yes it is perplexing. I've had some similar problems with a PM45. I like your idea of left-handed shooting. I would run through 3-4 mags each of left-hand; right-hand; and two-handed. On the two handed try a few different grips as well. I still think we need to keep user error on the table. The tight slide stop lever doesn't bother me as much as slide locking back so often.

[hsart]

.... AND ON THE RECOIL SPRING ASSEMBLY, I would not try a different models spring unless it was blessed by Kahr service or someone more knowledegable than me.

[jlottmc]

I agree OE is always on the table.

[*j-w-m*]

Called Kahr and they're pretty sure it's a bent slide stop spring, so they're shipping a replacement. Can't swap that part from the PM9 unfortunately.

[Bawanna]

Called Kahr and they're pretty sure it's a bent slide stop spring, so they're shipping a replacement. Can't swap that part from the PM9 unfortunately.

And we have a Bingo! Course they are guessing just like we are and it may not be the issue but if they think that it adds a bit of credibility to our diagnosis. I'm thinking the new MK9 must have a different recoil setup than my earlier MK9. Mine is just a normal rod and spring, yours sounds like a self contained Glockish type arrangement. I have a PM9 coming by this afternoon for a look see. Guess I better look it over closer.
Do let us know if the new spring heals it.

[*j-w-m*]

Will update this thread once I have the spring replaced. Thanks for all the prompt replies!

[jocko]

I am confused. the book shows the Mk series to have the captive style two peace recoil set up, not the onepeace plastic recoil rod. Has kahr made a change here lately or id dI miss somethingin this fellas message. Breaking the original recoil rod is very confusing also, I wonder why one would hav eto break the plastic recoil rod..

[Bawanna]

I am confused. the book shows the Mk series to have the captive style two peace recoil set up, not the onepeace plastic recoil rod. Has kahr made a change here lately or id dI miss somethingin this fellas message. Breaking the original recoil rod is very confusing also, I wonder why one would hav eto break the plastic recoil rod..

Where ya been dude, been waiting for you. I think there must have been a change, I know the frame on the new MK9 Elite is different than the earlier MK9. I'm thinking this MK9 recoil spring has to be the one piece unit setup. When you replace the spring you have to replace the rod as a unit, like a glock. Kind of tripped me up. So the new stainless rod must change it back to a captive two piece setup like us metal framed gun guys are used too.
Ya think? I'm gonna have to go look at this some more....................

[jocko]

aw ha, I think I am getting the message here. he had to break that one peace original recoil spring set up to get to the two springs to put on his stainless rod. I have never seen the MK recoil assembly and just assumed it was like the PM captive set up, which it is not, as the PM recoil assembly, u can change jsut the outter spring where it looks like the MK series is very similar to the glocks .

Bawanna, I did not know the frames are different on the MK and MK elite. What is the difference. I know the elite has some polishing on the side to enhance looks etc, but I didn't know there was an actual "frame" difference...

[Bawanna]

aw ha, I think I am getting the message here. he had to break that one peace original recoil spring set up to get to the two springs to put on his stainless rod. I have never seen the MK recoil assembly and just assumed it was like the PM captive set up, which it is not, as the PM recoil assembly, u can change jsut the outter spring where it looks like the MK series is very similar to the glocks .

Bawanna, I did not know the frames are different on the MK and MK elite. What is the difference. I know the elite has some polishing on the side to enhance looks etc, but I didn't know there was an actual "frame" difference...

I'm not sure if it's a difference between MK and MK Elite or Old MK and new MK. I made them handles for quickduk and used my early MK9 to build them on. On his new MK Elite the top screw is recessed so the normal screws barely even touched. The grips apparently fit and they look like they fit well but he has to have 2 different length screws. The top being longer than the bottom. I think if I had a new MK I could build the grips so that all the screws would be the same length but alas I don't got one.
I looked at the owners manuals on this sight and the mk does have a 1 piece captive recoil set up on a plastic guide rod. Not sure how the springs are installed on the new stainless rod unless there's a cap or something screwed on the end to contain them or they just go back to like K9 setup. A picture of that new rod set up would be nice. Perhaps I'll go look at the Kahr shop, maybe theres pics I can understand there.

[Bawanna]

Well sure enough, went to the site and the MK stainless steel replacement guide rod has a cap that apparently screws on the end to make it a captive system similar to what it is originally. 41 bucks. Chew this around long enough and it all starts to make sense. Seems like they could just put a stainless rod in from the drawing board and the world would be a better place to live.

[at_liberty]

Got a new MK9 elite a couple of weeks ago and put 200 rounds through it with no problems at all. Then ordered the stainless steel guide rod from kahrshop.com and installed it as directed. I noticed when I put the gun back together that the slide release pin was harder to get back into place and had to tap it with a screwdriver handle to get it back in. Took the gun to the range today to test the new guide rod and now I can't get more than two shots off without the slide locking back, even with the magazine removed. Anyone got an idea what's happening here? I can't how the guide rod could cause this, but before I ship it back to Kahr would like some opinions from the experts here. Appreciate your help-

That sure sounds to me like the slide lock is sitting on top of the spring instead of under it. I have repaired my own spring with needle nose pliers, but the new spring coming should be a good fix. Unfortunately, that is not so easy to fix on the poly frame models, since the spring is pinned with a washer thingy rather than secured with a screw head.

[*j-w-m*]

Not sure how the springs are installed on the new stainless rod unless there's a cap or something screwed on the end to contain them or they just go back to like K9 setup. .

The new stainless guide rod is two piece, with a threaded cap that screws into the rod with threadlocker to keep it from unthreading under stress. I guess the old plastic one was probably two piece and glued together? Not sure since when I snipped through the old plastic one with sidecutters, the smaller piece flew across the room into a dark corner.

[Bawanna]

The new stainless guide rod is two piece, with a threaded cap that screws into the rod with threadlocker to keep it from unthreading under stress. I guess the old plastic one was probably two piece and glued together? Not sure since when I snipped through the old plastic one with sidecutters, the smaller piece flew across the room into a dark corner.

Do you still use both springs? Imagine so. I looked up a picture of the guide rod and it does look good. I suppose it didn't come with springs since you cut the old one to get to the springs. I hate those dark corners, spent way way too much time looking for critical little screws, springs, what not. Time killer for sure.

[*j-w-m*]

Do you still use both springs? Imagine so. I looked up a picture of the guide rod and it does look good. I suppose it didn't come with springs since you cut the old one to get to the springs. I hate those dark corners, spent way way too much time looking for critical little screws, springs, what not. Time killer for sure.

Yes, both springs still used since the new guide rod is just that, no springs attached. ;)

[gb6491]

That sure sounds to me like the slide lock is sitting on top of the spring instead of under it. I have repaired my own spring with needle nose pliers, but the new spring coming should be a good fix. Unfortunately, that is not so easy to fix on the poly frame models, since the spring is pinned with a washer thingy rather than secured with a screw head.
The slide stop spring on my CW45 is secured with a washer and screw (vice pinned) on my CW45:
http://i42.tinypic.com/rr59xd.jpg
Regards,
Greg

[jocko]

That screw takes a size 6 torx too. which u can get at sears singularly. I sure would try tweaking that original spring with a pair of long nose pliers before trying to install the new one. It is easy to tweek . If you strip that torx screw, you are screwed and it just screws right into the polymer gip side and is very very small and short to. All that concaved washer does is hold that spring in place. Unless you break that springy tip off, you can tweek the one in the gun now with ease.

** take the slide off and then reinstall the slide stop lever and then insert an empty magazine and see if that mag follower pick ups that slide stop lever. It should lift it up alot. If it does not, take the lever back out and with long nose plies bend/tweek that springy end tip upward a tad and retest. When you install that slide stop lever look at in and notice where that springy tip has to end up on the inside of the gun. On that tab, there is a small groove in that slide stop tab and that is where that spring tip should end up. You should actually hear alittle snap as it is going into the little groove. I always put a dab of grease on that tab even to let the spring tip ride over it easier.

That springy when installed correctly is always wantng to pull the slide stop lever downward, never upward. It it pulls it upward, then you have that little tab over that little springy instead of under it. that photo is awesome to work with here to.

Just check to make sure that when the lever is in place that there is no free play n that lever before that little springy thing starts to do it job. To much free play and iou will get premature slide stop locking open. You can feel that really easy.

Now reinstall the slide and with an empty magazine insert and rack the slide. It shold lock open every time.

I guess what I am trying to say here is to avoid taking out that slide stop sprng screw at all costs. Just my 2 cent son this..

nice photo GB6491..

[at_liberty]

We may have drifted off into the weeds, although productively. The gun in question is an MK9 (steel frame).

My 2003 series PM40, poly frame, has no torx head. It looks like it was intended to be permanent, maybe some sort of press fit that goes in but has teeth to prevent coming out. Company wide, that would oviously become problematic over the years, explaining pictures of more current production, so I am concerned about my spring (and my frame). The spring is pretty abused but still working.

That same area has been a problem on my steel slide T40 also and required GunTite on the screw threads. I believe GunTite is just a grade of LocTite considered suitable for firearms. The point is that the slide lock spring seems to be the center of many problems with Kahrs. It is certainly not "idiot proof" or as straightforward as some other take-down designs.