Classes...............

[berettabone]

Now, I don't want to sound like one of those, well, you know, libs. I have seen some of the CCW classes being held in my area, and well, their kind of a joke. I take the chance on being verbally beat down, and I don't know what others have done, but................................my class was 9 hrs. with a qualifying shoot at the end. I do believe that you should be able to use, clean, handle, shoot, etc. the firearm that you carry, and the rest that you own. A lot of people in my area just don't seem to have much of a clue, and these 4 hr. classes, with no shoot at the end, aren't really helping these people get the proper training that they need to carry. Opinions?

[Bawanna]

To me it's a common sense responsibility to learn about the firearm.

I voraciously disagree with mandatory classes for a CCW permit or buying a gun etc. When/ If it becomes mandatory where I live I'll go illegal.

I won't sit for 10 minutes with some state annoited so called expert to preach to me what I figured out 40 years ago and knowledge that people of my generation for the most part were born with.

Most classes that I've heard of were just as you describe a joke.

I had to sit through Hunter Safety class with my two sons. It was a exercise in the instructor puffing himself up and telling everyone how smart he was and how dumb everyone else was. We had several disagreements and discussions during those classes.

[berettabone]

Well, it seems that common sense to you or I means something different these days.............................................. ..

[Bawanna]

Well, it seems that common sense to you or I means something different these days.............................................. ..

Common sense never changes meaning. It's either you have it or you don't.
That boys and girls is why we're in the shape we're in today.

If everyone or even just the majority of folks had common sense we wouldn't need lawyers, little need for liability insurance, a lot of things would be unneeded.

Add to that the majority having integrity and a whole slew of other stuff could be done away with.

A community organizer from Chicago gets elected to be POTUS TWICE! That right there is a clue.

[Bawanna]

After everything I said in my first response I've often thought of having classes here at the PD, just general safety and gun knowledge.

Nothing mandatory, just for folks that want to learn but don't want to be talked down too, just a pleasant positive learning experience.

First thing everyone says is become a NRA certified instructor which brings us right back to my first post so no classes for me.

[knkali]

I agree with the OP when it comes to the classes being a joke. Come to Kaliphony and really see how bad it is. I would rather the state just ask for the $ then give people a false sense of security. BUT I ultimately agree with Bawanna. There should be no mandatory classes or $$ and no permit either. It is our right to carry and it shall not be infringed.
My wife and I take classes because it is the responsible thing to do. Not the pre packaged one size fits all crap the state mandates.

[Bawanna]

I don't mind the money part. I agree with thorough back ground checks. Just take the money, do the check, should take about 15 minutes. I do this so I know.

Give me the permit and go piss away my money.

I laugh at folks who contest 100 dollar red light tickets caught on camera.
Usually get fine reduced to half but half to go to court, sit around judges and lawyers.

To me it's worth twice that much not to have to go there. It's all a fund raiser anyhow. Think of it as a charitable contribution to be wasted by your city government.

[berettabone]

My state has had legal open carry for ever, but most of us here don't like ending up face down on the concrete, sad to say, hence the license. A qualifying shoot is not mandatory, but I think it's a great idea. Especially since it gives some firearm owners an idea of how far away they are from the learning curve as far as shooting their firearm. It consisted of starting with an unloaded firearm. Using a standard FBI target, loading five rds. and shooting from 7 yds. in under a minute. Then doing the same thing from 7 yds. using 10 rds., loading 5 at a time, in under a minute. Then doing the same at 15 yds. Using a score of 150 as perfect, needing a score of 105 or more to pass. To seasoned shooters, not that big a deal..............but to new shooters, it can be quite difficult. At least, after all the legal mumbo jumbo, and the rest, they get a really good idea of where they are at, and shows the rambos just how lousy of shooters they really are. It's not the cure all, but opens some eyes, and it's a start.

[Bawanna]

A start on government control of a God given right sadly.


Sincerely

Rambo


Rambo is one of the voices in my head. To be clear I agree with you in principle beretta, I really do. It would be a wonderful thing for new potential CCW holders to experience but I don't see any way of the government effectively implementing it without turning a mole hill into a mountain.

History repeats itself. Think Pony Express.

Have it offered through private ranges session with no records kept, on a drop in basis and it might fly.
Many like my wife wouldn't go if it was a group session. She does not like to shoot with a group looking on.

[berettabone]

I get ya.........................................

[b4uqzme]

+1 for all the Colonel said.

We all need the common sense to WANT to learn how to operate our firearms safely and to WANT to learn how to carry them legally and responsibly. No permit necessary. Utopia?

[garyb]

Nothing wrong with classes and training. There are some folks that learn from classes and some that already know the stuff and hence a waste of time. My 12 yr old nephew recently took his hunter safety and scored 100%. Of course, we have been working with him too. The point is that it DOES benefit some people out there and it is a waste of time for others with common sense and prior experience and/or training. I do agree that MOST of the classes I've taken, a good part of the class is the instructor pumping himself up to establish credibility. Funny thing is that a lot of these instructors are not competent themselves and do the classes to make themselves "feel" like experts. Some classes are a waste of time for some people...but that same class may be beneficial for other folks.

As for gun handling and shooting competency....you won't get competent out of a 4, 8 or 10 hr class with a qualifier at the end. You can have 16 hours of range time and still not be truly competent with gun handling or shooting. It takes a bit more training and experience than one class. If you think you got it out of a 10 hr vs a 4 hr class....I find it very hard to believe. You get it through more and more training, more and more range time and more years of experience (be it military, LEO training, competition, years of experience, etc....). If you are really experienced...good for you. For others who may not be really experienced and who want their shooting skills to jump several levels...take more advanced skill courses and/or try IDPA. Keep shooting and keep training until it comes without any thought. JMO.

[downtownv]

I took all of my courses at the Sigsauer academy and they were ALL serious as a heart attack. They basics were reviewed briefly and then it was down to business.
I never took a State gun course. We studied and tested Laws Castle doctrine stand your ground and duty to retreat. proper holster drawing and shooting from a conceal carry position (s) It was understood you had a level of knowledge prior to signing onto the courses (and was required)
I took a basic gun safety course from the NRA a long time ago.
I only possess NON -resident permits (3) none are accepted in New Jermany. F 'em!

[jocko]

IMO any hours spent is good hours. I would not knock a person who took a 4, 8 or 16 hour course as not being enough. THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH. 99% of most of these people are just wanting some good basics. they are not SWAT people who need more.

kUDOS to anyone who takes any training course, Sometimes it is a financial thing and a time thing, for some to. Not all people get into this macho stuff either.

[RevRay]

Here in CT I had to do about 6 hours with a range test at the end. I didn't mind it because it had been about a dozen years since I'd had a gun in my hand, and longer than that since I'd had any training.

[Bawanna]

You got an issue with Macho? Dude!

Soon as I empty the dish washer and vacuum I'm coming down to stomp your backside mutha.

[skiflydive]

IMO any hours spent is good hours. I would not knock a person who took a 4, 8 or 16 hour course as not being enough. THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH. 99% of most of these people are just wanting some good basics. they are not SWAT people who need more.

kUDOS to anyone who takes any training course, Sometimes it is a financial thing and a time thing, for some to. Not all people get into this macho stuff either.

+1000 Jocko

[berettabone]

IMO any hours spent is good hours. I would not knock a person who took a 4, 8 or 16 hour course as not being enough. THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH. 99% of most of these people are just wanting some good basics. they are not SWAT people who need more.

kUDOS to anyone who takes any training course, Sometimes it is a financial thing and a time thing, for some to. Not all people get into this macho stuff either.
That's basically what I was trying to convey. At least it's a start for some of these people. When people are walking around with firearms, it's better than nothing. Apparently, some don't think people need any training, or they think they need a full out testosterone based simulated firefight. I just want people to be safe, and not shoot someone by accident.

[jocko]

You got an issue with Macho? Dude!

Soon as I empty the dish washer and vacuum I'm coming down to stomp your backside mutha.

sounds like a crayon scenario. attacking from the back. chicken sh!t is what we normaly call um in the mdiwest. Hard tellin what u so far out west folks call um:amflag:

no big deal macho man, I had to hand curtains today!!! Just sayin

[kwh]

In North Carolina the greatest amount of time was on videos concerning all the legalities and the recent changes in the law. Important to me to emphasize when one has the right to use deadly force and when one does not. Ability to protect yourself and family without going to court (won't discuss the unfortunate Zimmerman media- circus case) or going to jail.

[TucsonMTB]

Back to the original question . . .

http://pimapistolclub.com/images/ppc-header.png (http://pimapistolclub.com/)

The local Pima Pistol Club (http://pimapistolclub.com/), where I shoot and am a member, has the usual array of IDPA and USPSA matches each month. For experienced shooters they are invaluable but can be intimidating to a new or casual shooter. To address that issue, we also have a Back Up Gun (BUG) match each month.

The BUG match features less complicated scoring and encourages shooting the pistol that you ordinarily carry. Safety requires that all "drawing" from concealed locations be performed with a "blue gun", a non-firing plastic replica that is exchanged in a safe manner with your actual firearm just before your begin firing. On a personal level, the matches seem less competitive than the "real" matches . . . or at least friendlier.

I learned a lot from these matches about using cover, moving while shooting, and firing from real life positions (including lying on your back or side in some scenarios) rather than standing behind a bench.

The experience has changed just about everything about the way I shoot or practice, including developing one hand accuracy and shooting with the weak hand.

Finding something similar at your range would probably have value for most people and it is certainly more fun than a formal class. :)

If you are an experienced shooter and there is nothing similar at your range, you might consider offering to create something like this. It is that valuable.

If you want more information, examine the BUG match rules and information posted on our web site. http://pimapistolclub.com/matches/bug

[muggsy]

I see nothing wrong with taking a class to get a concealed carry permit for people who have never owned or shot a gun, but a waiver should be in effect for anyone who served in the military. Education is good thing.

[DKD]

As for an exemption for military...that is already the law in Florida. You still have to pay for the photos, processing fee and finger print card, but the prior honorable discharge DD214 is all that is necessary to process your CCW.
As for the Zimmerman deal, the local sheriff as well as his second in command did not want to nor ever wanted to charge him, they knew it was self defense, hense they had the chief step down along with his second in command, due to outside pressures from DOJ in DC....political pressure BS. Then they called in an outside prosecutor ...more BS. ALL these DC types are race baiters, political hacks, POS's period!