PM versus CM

[onemule]

Please pardon me if this has been covered somewhere else. I can't imagine it hasn't been discussed, but I didn't find it. Can someone explain for me what practical advantage there is to a PM model over the corresponding CM model other than cosmetic changes? Is the PM model more accurate? Does it last longer? Does it have a reduced break-in requirement? Is it more reliable? Does it produce greater velocity and therefore greater energy for a given load? ???

I'm just wondering whether there is any utilitarian advantage that would lead a person to spend the substantially greater amount of money for the PM9 or PM40 given the similarity of the CM9 or CM40. I'm also wondering whether it's worth waiting for the CM45 to come out instead of just getting a PM45.

I realize each person will have a unique value system in this regard. However, I personally don't care much about cosmetics (after all, I have considered getting a Glock), but I do value accuracy and reliability, for example. So, I would appreciate reading your opinion and insights in this matter.

[ltxi]

Other than the availability of night sights and hard all black finish, there is no practical difference.

[jocko]

it has certainly been covered here many times but basicaly what Itxi stated is about right.

U can look at thge kahr webbsite and gather most all the inforation also. My carry is my PMJ9 but if the cm had been around back then I would have bought it and never looked back.If u want thge black dlcfinish then u hve no choice but to buy the PM series. It is not like ur buying a hamburger and eating it and tomorrow having nuttin to sow for it, the cmis lower in price, IMO certainly not cheaper in quality. It l;acks some of the bells and whistlesthe PM has. Uwon't shoot eiter one out, break in is the same, ur only gonna buy it onetime so if anutter $150 plus dollars is gonna make u happy then wait and buy the PM.If cost is the driving factor, go for the cm and u won't regret it. Nitesightsiscertainly not a must IMObut u can now find nite sights for the cm series...

The CM IMO is one damnnice handgun..

[onemule]

Nitesightsiscertainly not a must IMObut u can now find nite sights for the cm series...

The CM IMO is one damnnice handgun..

Night sites would be very valuable to me for my application. Any suggestions on which ones for the CM (if more than one are available) and where to find the best prices on them?

[Glock23]

Night sites would be very valuable to me for my application. Any suggestions on which ones for the CM (if more than one are available) and where to find the best prices on them?

The trijicons available from Kahr are fairly reasonable for $80, in my opinion. I have them on my CM40.

[garyb]

In addition to those differences mentioned. They have different barrels...PM is polygonal rifling and CM is standard rifling....which could equate to accuracy and price differences. Someone would need to get details from Kahr on the price differences of each barrel as well as accuracy. . PM comes with 2 mags (5 & 6 rd)....CM comes with one 5 rd mag. You can obviously purchase mags, but that ups the cost of the gun and should be factored in if you are comparing the prices of the two. Both good guns.

[JERRY]

one is the econo version with less refinementment/options. similar to the s&w 908s v. 3913.

[getsome]

I would buy the CM and one extra magazine and use the left over money to buy a Trijicon front night sight from Kahr and install it yourself and let it go at that....IMHO rear night sights are useless on a short barrel combat pistol and the PM's polygonal rifling isn't worth the extra money....I've had both a CW40 and now a PM40 DLC and I couldn't tell any difference between them in how accurate they were or how well they shot overall....I only traded for the PM40 because I wanted a pocket pistol and the price was right for the used PM DLC which I like better than the bright stainless....Buy the CM and use the savings on ammo

[garyb]

CM is an equally refined piece indeed. Both guns are good and differences are subtle. Barrel is probably biggest difference, dropped out a mag, and they don't offer the CM in various configurations like they do the PM....lowers production cost. I am still wondering about the barrel difference (cost and accuracy)? Kahr was obviously trying to get the price down from their PM line in a few ways as previously mentioned....so I know what you mean by econo. The CM is a more economical production Kahr offers to customers who like the PM format but not the price. I have not checked...anyone know off hand what the approx. retail price difference is between a loaded PM (black with night sights) vs CM? That black finish is tough and in my opinion well worth the additional cost. It is not merely a color difference...it is a tough coating that adds value and price.

[JimC]

Yes, the differences between the PM and CM pistols have been discussed here many, many times in one form or another to the point of being boring.
Owners of both have their individual preferences and reasons for owning one or the other, usually the price. ;)
I'm sure there are people that own both.
I've stated this many times before but with the chance of being redundant, I'll say it one more time.
When I bought my PM9094NA in 2011, all black w/night sights, the CM9 was not yet available. If it had been...I would still have bought the PM9.
I wanted an all black pistol, not a two tone one. I wanted night sights. I liked the dovetail steel FS over the pinned in plastic unit of the CM pistol.
Better or not, I like the polygonal rifling of the PM over the conventional rifling CM.
And FWIW, you get the extra magazine with the PM, not so with the CM.
For many, the CM pistol is available for those who can't afford the PM line. ;)

[JimC]

CM is an equally refined piece indeed. Both guns are good and differences are subtle. Barrel is probably biggest difference, dropped out a mag, and they don't offer the CM in various configurations like they do the PM....lowers production cost. I am still wondering about the barrel difference (cost and accuracy)? Kahr was obviously trying to get the price down from their PM line in a few ways as previously mentioned....so I know what you mean by econo. The CM is a more economical production Kahr offers to customers who like the PM format but not the price. I have not checked...anyone know off hand what the approx. retail price difference is between a loaded PM (black with night sights) vs CM? That black finish is tough and in my opinion well worth the additional cost. It is not merely a color difference...it is a tough coating that adds value and price.

MSRP vs. MSRP (no one buys at MSRP though)

CM9 - $517.00
PM9 black w/night sights - $958.00

IMO, the difference of $441.00 is worth every penny for a fine pistol such as the PM9.

[addictedhealer]

Barrel, slidestop, guide rod (cw/p), dovetail front sight, color options, spare magazine, fancy slide and price.

[garyb]

MSRP vs. MSRP (no one buys at MSRP though)

CM9 - $517.00
PM9 black w/night sights - $958.00

IMO, the difference of $441.00 is worth every penny for a fine pistol such as the PM9.

Thanks JimC. Agreed, no one pays MSRP...I asked just to compare list prices. WOW...Could almost have two CM's for the price of a PM. For some this is a big factor, but I agree that the PM is worth the difference. The CM (nor the Shield) was not around when I bought my PM either. If it (they)were at that time, I can't say I would have ended up with my PM. Hard to say. I think that for a carry piece, you could throw a laser on a CM (or Shield) and have a good carry. Hindsight is always better, but I'm happy with the PM40. Have not had my hands on a Shield yet. I've gotta agree, It was kind of a boring comparison.

[Cougar8000]

My personal use is a pm9 with night sight in two tone

I now have both cm and a pm in stock and besides what was covered already pm has smoother edges on the outside that makes it a bit more comfortable in carrying and holding

Pm comes in a plastic box vs cm paper box

When I bought my pm it was only available in two tone. I will be selling it and transferring all black into my personal collection


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[muggsy]

In addition to what has been covered, there is no difference in accuracy between the poly and conventional rifled barrels. There may be a slight increase in velocity from the poly barrel and they are supposed to be easier to clean, but Kahr warns about using lead bullets in poly barrels. The difference between a PM9 and a CM9 is basically the same as the difference between a Lincoln and a Ford. Both will get you from point A to point B, but one does it with a little more style. If you are looking for a down and dirty carry gun go with the CM9. If you want to impress people with your wealth go with the PM9. And that's the name of that game.

[garyb]

In addition to what has been covered, there is no difference in accuracy between the poly and conventional rifled barrels. There may be a slight increase in velocity from the poly barrel and they are supposed to be easier to clean, but Kahr warns about using lead bullets in poly barrels. The difference between a PM9 and a CM9 is basically the same as the difference between a Lincoln and a Ford. Both will get you from point A to point B, but one does it with a little more style. If you are looking for a down and dirty carry gun go with the CM9. If you want to impress people with your wealth go with the PM9. And that's the name of that game.

The babes just don't seem to be jumping all over me since I started carrying the PM. My guess is that the problem is probably not the gun???? Haha. :D

[muggsy]

Try deodorant. It worked for me.

[onemule]

I have not checked...anyone know off hand what the approx. retail price difference is between a loaded PM (black with night sights) vs CM?

PM45: msrp $855; Gander Mtn $799.99
PM45, black w night sights: msrp $1,022; Gander Mtn $999.99

CM40: msrp $517; retail?
PM40: msrp $786; retail?
PM40, black w night sights: msrp $939; retail?

CM9: msrp $517; Gander Mtn $549.99; Fleet Farm $429.99; Cabela's reg $499.99/sale $419.99
PM9: msrp $786; Gander Mtn $799.99
PM9, black w night sights: msrp $958; Gander Mtn $999.9

The retail prices just represent stores I can easily get to, not that I would recommend anyone buy from Gander Mountain, for obvious reasons. I haven't seen a PM40 or CM40 advertised near me.

When you can pick up a CM9 on sale for $420, there would need to be some pretty significant advantage to drop the extra $380 for the equivalent PM40. That much money would buy night sights and a lot of magazines and ammo.

Anyone know what Kahr's target msrp will be for the CM45? Their web site recently made it appear they were planning on the same $517 as for the CM40 and CM9. However, that page seems to have disappeared.

[Glock23]

CM40: msrp $517; retail?
I paid just over $400 for my CM40, which included shipping and FFL transfer fees.

[onemule]

Thanks JimC. Agreed, no one pays MSRP...I asked just to compare list prices. WOW...Could almost have two CM's for the price of a PM. For some this is a big factor, but I agree that the PM is worth the difference. The CM (nor the Shield) was not around when I bought my PM either. If it (they)were at that time, I can't say I would have ended up with my PM. Hard to say. I think that for a carry piece, you could throw a laser on a CM (or Shield) and have a good carry. Hindsight is always better, but I'm happy with the PM40. Have not had my hands on a Shield yet. I've gotta agree, It was kind of a boring comparison.

For the cost of the PM9, you could put night sights and a laser on a CM9 and still have money left for an extra mag or so. I can see how a collector would choose the PM, but for utilitarian purposes, the CM makes economic sense.

[wyntrout]

A lot of guys rush out and buy the "Cheap" models, only to want to add magazines, new sights, replace the MIM parts, get a new finish, and on... and on... complaining about everything.

Buying a P or PM DLC model with night sights at a decent discounted price, or LNIB, will get you closer to your "dream" carry rather than saving a few bucks... MAYBE! Some of you guys spend more trying to make a P or PM out of your "C" model.

I bought my PM9 LNIB... DLC with NS, bought my PM45 DLC with NS NEW at decent price, got my Mag-na-ported P40 LNIB(here) and bought my P9 DLC with NS used but nice condition(here), and would not consider swapping any of them for the "C" models and cash back. But that's just me... I like the better finishing and no shortcuts or losses in mags and features.

Wynn:)

[garyb]

For the cost of the PM9, you could put night sights and a laser on a CM9 and still have money left for an extra mag or so. I can see how a collector would choose the PM, but for utilitarian purposes, the CM makes economic sense.

Agree totally onemule. CM is a fine gun too. Especially now that I'm wearing deodorant and the babes think I'm a wealthy collector with a PM. But don't tell my wife because she won't allow me to become a gun collector and knows I'm not wealthy. :behindsofa:

Ha ha. All in fun. :D. But seriously. I don't see it as an issue of owning an Icon, wealth, collector, whatever. I see it as a financial decision at the time of purchase. Some guys don't want to spend that amount on a PM when they feel the CM does the job. Other guys want a choice of color, extra mags, etc... and see the value. Both are good guns.

[onemule]

Agree totally onemule. CM is a fine gun too. Especially now that I'm wearing deodorant and the babes think I'm a wealthy collector with a PM. But don't tell my wife because she won't allow me to become a gun collector and knows I'm not wealthy. :behindsofa:

Ha ha. All in fun. :D. But seriously. I don't see it as an issue of owning an Icon, wealth, collector, whatever. I see it as a financial decision at the time of purchase. Some guys don't want to spend that amount on a PM when they feel the CM does the job. Other guys want a choice of color, extra mags, etc... and see the value. Both are good guns.

Sounds like it. I expect I would opt for the PM over the CM if I had the cash, but right now all I've found is a CM9. That would probably make a fine social carry gun, but I'm pretty stuck on the .45, so I may have to go with the XD-S 45, once they get back from recall, if I haven't found a PM45 in the meantime. I've heard a lot of support on here for the XD-S despite the recall, so I'm relaxing on that a bit. Still, I've come to like the Kahrs over the rest at this point.

[JimC]

Sounds like it. I expect I would opt for the PM over the CM if I had the cash, but right now all I've found is a CM9. That would probably make a fine social carry gun, but I'm pretty stuck on the .45, so I may have to go with the XD-S 45, once they get back from recall, if I haven't found a PM45 in the meantime. I've heard a lot of support on here for the XD-S despite the recall, so I'm relaxing on that a bit. Still, I've come to like the Kahrs over the rest at this point.

You should have only a short wait for the XDs in .45.
I received an e-mail from SA customer service yesterday stating that the XDs pistols with the upgraded parts will shipping out at the end of the month. :)
I would have to presume that he meant this month.

[muggsy]

A lot of guys rush out and buy the "Cheap" models, only to want to add magazines, new sights, replace the MIM parts, get a new finish, and on... and on... complaining about everything.

Buying a P or PM DLC model with night sights at a decent discounted price, or LNIB, will get you closer to your "dream" carry rather than saving a few bucks... MAYBE! Some of you guys spend more trying to make a P or PM out of your "C" model.

I bought my PM9 LNIB... DLC with NS, bought my PM45 DLC with NS NEW at decent price, got my Mag-na-ported P40 LNIB(here) and bought my P9 DLC with NS used but nice condition(here), and would not consider swapping any of them for the "C" models and cash back. But that's just me... I like the better finishing and no shortcuts or losses in mags and features.

Wynn:)

The only mods to my CM is a 5# striker spring, a spare mag. and a Qwik Grip. The CM does everything that I want it to do and more. Goes bang when I pull the trigger and hits what I aim at. I'm a no frills kinda guy.

[Popeye]

Both are well made pistols. The things I personally liked about my PM9 was it was all black, and that is what I prefer with all my Carry pistols. It came with two mags, night sights, and a polygonal barrel which I personally thought was much easier to maintain and shot cooler than a standard rifled barrel. The fact that the CM9 has a few mim parts means nothing to me in a pistol that is not considered to be a duty pistol.
As far as which one you should look into first starts out with how deep your pockets are I suppose, and which pistols appeals to your wants and needs.
Either one is a very good CC choice pistol. I will say that I thought the black diamond finish was very tough and even though I carried it almost everyday for 3-1/2 years and shot over 2000 rounds through it, it still looked amazing.
9088

[Barth]

My only Kahr is the high end MK40 Elite.
I felt I would appreciate the Elite upgrades and have.

Two things I've notice with gun ownership.
1) It's usually cheaper to buy the gun with the factory options you want.
Than it is to add them later.
2) Over time, looking at the total cost of ownership,
the sales price alone becomes less significant.

If you're expecting to keep, carry and shoot the weapon?
Get the factory options you want and don't sweat the price.

[onemule]

Got my hands on a CM9 this weekend but did not get to shoot it. Wow! Does it ever disappear into the pocket. CM40 is almost identical in size. PM45 is quite a bit larger. Would like to try it on and test fire it and the CM40. Thanks again for all your input.

[Popeye]

Anyone can put there own personal pro's and con's spin on either pistol when you compare one against the other and have it make perfect sense to that person, but when push comes to shove, and at the end of the day neither one would be a bad choice. I personally think there both worth the what you pay for them.

[Mjcollier73]

If you want to shoot hard cast bullets the cm would be the better option.

[garyb]

Both are well made pistols. The things I personally liked about my PM9 was it was all black, and that is what I prefer with all my Carry pistols. It came with two mags, night sights, and a polygonal barrel which I personally thought was much easier to maintain and shot cooler than a standard rifled barrel. The fact that the CM9 has a few mim parts means nothing to me in a pistol that is not considered to be a duty pistol.
As far as which one you should look into first starts out with how deep your pockets are I suppose, and which pistols appeals to your wants and needs.
Either one is a very good CC choice pistol. I will say that I thought the black diamond finish was very tough and even though I carried it almost everyday for 3-1/2 years and shot over 2000 rounds through it, it still looked amazing.
9088

+1 on what Popeye said.