CZ and Charter Arms

[gb6491]

Some new additions:
First, the CZ: I'd been on the waiting list for this one about a year. It's a CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62x39.
Walnut stock, 5 round detachable magazine, adjustable single set trigger
18.5" barrel/37.4" OAL
weighs 5.87 lbs.
CZ rings with a Burris 2x7 I had stashed away.
http://i42.tinypic.com/25tf0gm.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/juhfs1.jpg
I think it will shoot pretty good once I find what load it likes and I get used to it. Here's a target from 100yds. Take away that flier from the target on the left and I think that group would work for steel cased Russian ammo. For sure, the operator needs a lot of practice.
http://i41.tinypic.com/34iqlnn.jpg

Now, the Charter Arms.
I like three inch "J" frame size guns. Unfortunately, my Model 36 with a 3" tube has an excessive barrel /cylinder gap that S&W says they can't fix. So it's been languishing at the shop where I bought it. They are waiting for their new mill with the plan being to mill the barrel out and replace it (I now have another plan thanks to TucsonMTB:)). Anyway, I noticed a 3" barrel Charter Arms Undercover that nobody was bidding on and won the auction fairly cheap. It's an early Charter (from the Bridgeport era) and a little worse for wear, but the timing is spot on with excellent lock up.
http://i43.tinypic.com/wch0md.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/suzl7o.jpg
I've never had an issue with Charters in regards to reliability. Two I own have adjustable sights, the other has fixed sights. That fixed sight gun like this 3" did not shoot close enough to POA to satisfy me and I broke the front sight off of it during an attempt to rectify that. Lesson learned, on this 3" gun I just filed the sight to shift the group to the right. Pretty happy with the results:) (15 rounds at 10 yds).
http://i44.tinypic.com/6s5oxk.jpg
Regards,
Greg

[b4uqzme]

Greg -- that CZ is so-o on my wish list!! If I ever find one, my Mini14 might be in trouble. I've already got a Nikon 3-9x40 just waiting in the wings...

I figger you will always be about 10 (make that 100) steps ahead of me. Great guns!!

I just looked at my screen and noticed that I already had the CZ website, trained on the CZ527 page, open in another window. Guess I better get on the waiting list.

[Bawanna]

That's a beautiful rifle. Excellent wood and right handy looking.

The Charter ain't no slouch neither and obviously a shooter too.

[chrish]

If you guys remember my delimma awhile back, bolt vs ar vs pcc, I ultimately decided the next purchase would be a bolt gun. Don't have one. Would like one. Ammo will go thru it with less frequency than something semi-auto.

Anyway. That very CZ was one on my short list, but in .223. Very very nice. I've ultimately decided to go w/ a Remington/AAC Micro 7 once funds become available in the next few months hopefully. But WOW, gb, that CZ is absolutely beautiful. Of all the bolt guns I've considered, easily the nicest looking. The wood they use on that stock is just gorgeous.

[CJB]

Hey as for that model 36...

The fix for that isn't as bad as you might think. That is - if the barrel can be removed, and most can be. The fix does not involve a mill... jeeze no! It does involve a live center and a 4 jaw chuck on a lathe. Forcing cone end of the barrel on the live center, and you trim back from the shoulder of the barrel EXACTLY the length of the thread pitch, minus .0025. The .0025 is the new crush factor for the threads. If its done that way, and I've done it to Rugers and replica Colt SAA's, you dont even need to redo the sight. Check the barrel thread's TPI carefully, as they can be weird, like 26 or 30 tpi. Does not matter, just do the math and subtract .0025 from that. Thats the amount to take off. After that, just reface the back of the barrel with a standard facing tool, and slightly recut the cone, and you're in biz again.

[gb6491]

... Guess I better get on the waiting list.
Things might be looking better in that regards, my local shop has been getting CZ products at a much higher rate of late.


That's a beautiful rifle. Excellent wood and right handy looking.

The Charter ain't no slouch neither and obviously a shooter too.
Thank you sir:yo:


If you guys remember my delimma awhile back, bolt vs ar vs pcc, I ultimately decided the next purchase would be a bolt gun. Don't have one. Would like one. Ammo will go thru it with less frequency than something semi-auto.

Anyway. That very CZ was one on my short list, but in .223. Very very nice. I've ultimately decided to go w/ a Remington/AAC Micro 7 once funds become available in the next few months hopefully. But WOW, gb, that CZ is absolutely beautiful. Of all the bolt guns I've considered, easily the nicest looking. The wood they use on that stock is just gorgeous.
Thanks:) That Remy/AAC should be a fine rifle....that's in .300 Blackout correct?


Hey as for that model 36...

The fix for that isn't as bad as you might think. That is - if the barrel can be removed, and most can be. The fix does not involve a mill... jeeze no! It does involve a live center and a 4 jaw chuck on a lathe. Forcing cone end of the barrel on the live center, and you trim back from the shoulder of the barrel EXACTLY the length of the thread pitch, minus .0025. The .0025 is the new crush factor for the threads. If its done that way, and I've done it to Rugers and replica Colt SAA's, you dont even need to redo the sight. Check the barrel thread's TPI carefully, as they can be weird, like 26 or 30 tpi. Does not matter, just do the math and subtract .0025 from that. Thats the amount to take off. After that, just reface the back of the barrel with a standard facing tool, and slightly recut the cone, and you're in biz again.
CJB,
That's the problem. The gun has been back to S&W several times, the last at the personal request of the local shop owner who moves a lot of their product in this area. They acknowledge that the B/C gap is excessive (.013"), but say they can't get the barrel off without tweaking the frame.The gunsmith here tends to agree with them. He wants to cut the barrel, mill the stub thin enough that it will turn out or he can cut it. I'm thinking I might obtain a newer Magnum J frame cylinder (1.5x" length vice 1.3x" of the smaller frame cylinders.) to see if it will work in the older frame if it's turned to the correct length.

Regards,
Greg

[chrish]

Thanks:) That Remy/AAC should be a fine rifle....that's in .300 Blackout correct?


Yep. I decided that if it was gonna be my ONLY bolt gun (famous last words I know) that I wanted versatility. Had been considering the CZ and a Mossberg MVP, both in .223/5.56. I really want to avoid reloading at this point, no time to fool w/ it...and getting subsonic .223/5.56 is near impossible unless you do it yourself. Same seemed to go for .308 or 7.62, which ruled out things like a Ruger Gunsite or Remington 700. Plus, any of the ~.300 caliber rifles seemed to be a bit on the heavy side.

The Micro 7 will give me a lightweight (6.5lb) rifle...not quite what that CZ weighs, but light enough. Plus, ability to go supersonic or subsonic, and already threaded for a suppressor. And a .300 caliber. My goal is to eventually suppress this rifle. Wouldn't want to hose up the beautiful end of that CZ rifle. Looks too 'olympic' to go and chop it up :)

Of course, I leave the possibility open to own more than 1 bolt gun. There is always a fine print disclaimer w/ me on guns :D

[yqtszhj]

I may end up really wishing that you didn't post that picture of the CZ. I'm already hooked on the accuracy of my .22 version CZ and it looks like the 7.62 version is good too.

I had thought I would save my money for a Springfield M1A (want a bigger caliber military style rifle) but that CZ is nice.

[CJB]

Wow, risky biz on the 36.... if the barrel were locktite'd in... it would leave few options by milling. The barrel should not be on there THAT tight. Think it terms of 35-45 ft lbs, as needed to make the crush factor work and also have sights lined up. If you exceed that... there can be barrel stress that makes for a two piece barrel at the joint of the threaded area and shoulder (we've seen barrels go flying downrange... thats why).

[TheTman]

I think Charter Arms has some pretty good guns out there. They went through a period where quality seemed to suffer, but I think your weapon is before that. I know I'm real happy with my stainless 2.5" .44 special I bought about 10 years ago. It did have to go back to the shop once, the cylinder needed adjusted, it had moved away from the hammer so that the firing pin wasn't striking the primers hard enough. Never had that happen before. The service was very quick. It's not as punishing as a .357, but is pretty close to .45 ballistics. It's one I like to leave in my car, in case I forget to grab something for a quick run to the market.

[CharlieW]

I have a CZ 527 in the same configuration and caliber as yours -- great rifle !! I am sure you will enjoy yours as much as I like mine. And you can ALWAYS find 7.62x39 ammo.

[Bawanna]

Are those 308 or 311 bore.

I'd almost prefer 311 so a guy could shoot on the import stuff.

I know many get the ranch rifle with that in mind but they are 308. It works but probably not the best for accuracy.

Same when folks try to shoot domestic 308 7.62x39 thru AK's and SKS's that are 311. A little sloppy.

[gb6491]

Are those 308 or 311 bore.

I'd almost prefer 311 so a guy could shoot on the import stuff.

I know many get the ranch rifle with that in mind but they are 308. It works but probably not the best for accuracy.

Same when folks try to shoot domestic 308 7.62x39 thru AK's and SKS's that are 311. A little sloppy.
.311 http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-527-carbine/

[Bawanna]

That's great. Just the way I would want it. Sweet.

[ltxi]

I love those old Charter Arms guns. Sights were were great and they always shot well. My late 60's production 2" Undercover with Bulldog grips is a classic shooter treasure. Bought it used about 1970 or 1971 from a Sears store in Sacramento and shot the hell out of it. I'm even now kinda fond of the way the finish aged and mottled. It's a never part with gun.

[gun papa]

I got my Charter Arms Startford factory "Pocket Hammer", late 70's, early 80's "Undercover" for $50 at a distressed property sale. It locks up just like a Colt Python. Tight as a drum. Older "pocket hammers" are NOT easy to find. It truly is a NEVER sell gun.http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/gunpapa/photobucket-5554-1337146546869.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/gunpapa/media/photobucket-5554-1337146546869.jpg.html)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/gunpapa/photobucket-19879-1375676306718_zps3c8c3ee6.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/gunpapa/media/photobucket-19879-1375676306718_zps3c8c3ee6.jpg.html)

[yqtszhj]

I'm a bit scared for your thumb there.

[chrish]

I'm a bit scared for your thumb there.

:eek: you said it. me too. guaranteed ouchy there w/ a fraction of an inch more forward grip.

[gun papa]

Optical illusion. Thanks for caring.

[yqtszhj]

Optical illusion. Thanks for caring.

That's good to know.

[JERRY]

here is an "OFF DUTY" I picked up recently. so far its a pretty good gun. matches my experience with a 3" pathfinder I has two decades ago. the two bulldogs I had in the 80s were junk but Id like to try another one of I could find an old school version to handle first.

[ltxi]

"Off Duty" ?? That be a newfangled junk version of the Undercover, a mistake, or both?

[JERRY]

don't know, its an older gun before the enclosed ejector rod housings came standard. I think the UC uses a steel grip handle and trigger guard assy while the OD uses an aluminum one?

[ltxi]

Yep....I looked it up and found it. Just had never come across it before.

[Barth]

There's just something special about a 3" revolver.
My S&W 65-3 3" Heavy Barrel is my favorite wheel gun.
Followed closely by my S&W 629-2 44 Mountain Gun.

I was shooting the 3" 357 two weeks ago.
But haven't shot the Mountain Gun in a while.
Guess I'll have to do something about that - LOL!

[ltxi]

x2 on the HB 3" K frames. They have always felt the best, general purpose, balance to me.