New P45, new to Kahr talk. Multiple FTF + FTE

[dorangolv]

I have a shotgun, hunting rifle, revolver and Springfield Armory XD45. I have never had problems shooting anything the way I do with this gun.

Just bought a second hand P45 Saturday. My first Kahr ever.

Thing looked BRAND new, hardly used at all. Previous owner only used 1 magazine, the second one was unused still covered in Cosmoline. The guy never even opened the warranty packet and instructions. I don't know how long he had it or why he traded it in. I paid $440(+ tax etc= $475) and I was happy as could be.

Shot a hundred rounds of Winchester white box 230 gr FMJ from Wal-Mart. Multiple Failure To Eject and Failure To Feed events.:(
Wrote it off as "new gun/break in/weak grip/230gr target loads.":crazy:

Just got back from the range tonight. Another 50 rounds of 230 gr FMJ made by Armscore USA and again multiple FTF/FTE.:confused:

It got so bad I was sweeping my left thumb across the back of the slide after every shot to press it into battery before the next shot.
Now I know why the first owner traded it in.
This is NOT a reliable weapon. I could never carry this as my CCW because I would never know whether or not the thing will work when I pull the trigger. The whole reason I bought it was the slim profile concealability and large bore 45ACP.

What on Earth is wrong with this gun?:o

[downtownv]

Welcome from The Jersey Shore
Start reading the stickies in the new member area then call us for help :)

[wyntrout]

Dorangolv, welcome to the forum. I'm sorry that you have problems. Some of the .45's seem to make it past quality control and leave the factory with some necessary machining operations unperformed. Several of the ones that might be your problems are easily fixed with simple tools on hand.

I'll post my usual links and helpful info, but here's an important place to seek answers to your pistol's problems. Greg has consolidated a lot of the problems found with the .45's and their fixes or improvements. Your main problem could be from several things not finished... the bevel on the lower "stripper" part of the slide that catches the top cartridge and pushes it to the chamber was one that plagued me the first trip to the range with my new PM45. I couldn't chamber a round!

Check this link:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14749&page=2

And here's my Stuff:

Welcome to the Kahrtalk forum supported by K a h r Arms.
Here are a few essential links and things to do BEFORE you take your new pistol to the range, and ESPECIALLY BEFORE taking it apart and trying to re-assemble it! The Kahr is a different design… 6-7 unique patents cover the Kahrs. I’m not trying to imply that you don’t know anything about guns, but many don’t know anything about the Kahrs and some of the things you can do to damage or cause malfunctions of your new, or new-to-you Kahr pistol.

First, if you don’t have a manual, yet, or one didn’t come with your pistol, you can view it and/or download the pdf file here:
http://www.kahr.com/PDF/kahrmanual.pdf

Please watch one of these videos FIRST! These videos can point out possible problem areas and emphasize correct procedures!
Take down and re-assembly videos:
T, TP, CW, P, & PM/CM Series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=G2cZgVg_SwA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G2cZgVg_SwA)
MK series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...mSCnIOaUk#t=0s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zXmSCnIOaUk#t=0s)
K series:
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-K9-Elite.asp

There are many links on fixing problems listed in several places… under the New Member or Kahr Tech sub-forums. To start, a very good one:

Proper Prepping of a new Kahr:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14748

A very handy one is the Kahr Lubrication Diagram:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14750

Many of your questions can be answered in these areas and you can learn how your Kahr works and not damage it with improper handling.

Another great resource for information on Kahrs... Archives of Magazine and Internet Reviews for Kahr pistols by industry experts. They test these pistols and report on their views and the ammo they tested in it. This is a good way to find ammo that might fit your needs along with accuracy and feeding in the pistol... usually from a rest with velocity and energy, as well as penetration and expansion sometimes... very informational.

http://www.kahr.com/product-reviews.asp

Frequently asked questions: http://www.kahr.com/faq.asp?

One very important bit of advice: Hold the Kahr pistol firmly when firing OR CHAMBERING a round. These compact pistols need all of the force they can get from the slide to get a round into the chamber successfully. If you don't hold the pistol firmly, part of the needed momentum is transferred to MOVING THE PISTOL and the top round will DIVE and jam into the right side of the feed ramp. The weak hand, over hand rack method gives the best grip and a firm rack will give you the best chance at chambering a round.

Use the weak hand fingers over the slide(clear of the ejection port), thumb along the slide and pointing to the rear. Use the gun hand to simultaneously firmly push the gun as you give a vigorous rack with the weak hand and cleanly release the slide as it reaches the rear limit and is "snatched" from the weak hand. This approximates a real rack from firing and beats the slide release method WHEN executed properly. Much more strength can be exerted when this is done closer to the body.

Here's a video on that. The first part is what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=hjLbFOw8sow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hjLbFOw8sow)

There are many helpful members here most of the time who might be able to help you, but as anywhere, there are many opinions and not all are correct. Be mindful of this before doing anything drastic to modify your pistol!


Wynn:)
Aka wyntrout

PS: I keep thinking of stuff to add and help new members... and am trying to cover most of the popular subjects. Yes, it's repetitious to many, but possibly not to all new members. This approach is easier than having to look up every tidbit for each new member or question that arises. :)

[wyntrout]

Another possiblity I've had with a few Kahrs is the extractor claw not having enough clearance for the cartridge rim to fit underneath and retain the cartridge from pushing it into the chamber until it travels rearward and is ejected. You can lock the slide back and see if there's enough space for a rim to fit between the "claw" and the breech face wall. I radiused and smooth the claw and the breechface when my P40 had problems and Kahr replaced the bad extractor on my P380 when its claw was "resting" on the breech face. That was my second P380 (for Wifey) and it went back to the factory to get that sorted out on their dime.

See Greg's post and look your pistol over for any matching problems. Good luck.

Wynn:)

[gb6491]

I have a shotgun, hunting rifle, revolver and Springfield Armory XD45. I have never had problems shooting anything the way I do with this gun.

Just bought a second hand P45 Saturday. My first Kahr ever.

Thing looked BRAND new, hardly used at all. Previous owner only used 1 magazine, the second one was unused still covered in Cosmoline. The guy never even opened the warranty packet and instructions. I don't know how long he had it or why he traded it in. I paid $440(+ tax etc= $475) and I was happy as could be.

Shot a hundred rounds of Winchester white box 230 gr FMJ from Wal-Mart. Multiple Failure To Eject and Failure To Feed events.:(
Wrote it off as "new gun/break in/weak grip/230gr target loads.":crazy:

Just got back from the range tonight. Another 50 rounds of 230 gr FMJ made by Armscore USA and again multiple FTF/FTE.:confused:

It got so bad I was sweeping my left thumb across the back of the slide after every shot to press it into battery before the next shot.
Now I know why the first owner traded it in.
This is NOT a reliable weapon. I could never carry this as my CCW because I would never know whether or not the thing will work when I pull the trigger. The whole reason I bought it was the slim profile concealability and large bore 45ACP.

What on Earth is wrong with this gun?:o
Welcome to the forums.:)

For members here to be of much help, might I suggest you be a little more descriptive about your FTF/FTE problems.

As you did mention "sweeping my left thumb across the back of the slide after every shot to press it into battery before the next shot." let's look at a few things.
Take the barrel out of the pistol and drop a live round into the chamber. Check that the back of the round is at least flush with the rear of the barrel hood. If it isn't you will need to either try different ammo or contact Kahr about the problem. A local gunsmith should also be able to rectify this (most likely finish ream the chamber).

If the round does fit flush, have you:
Tried both magazines?
Checked that the pistol is properly lubed (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=308)?
Checked that the recoil spring is installed with the more open end towards the muzzle? (a new recoil spring would be a good investment).
Examined the extractor and breech face for damage?
Cleaned the slide completely (to include the extractor tunnel)?
Tried a gripping the pistol differently?

Regards,
Greg

Oops, I see Wynn has covered most of this as I was typing my reply. To quote Bawanna, "he's wicked fast".

[wyntrout]

Not that often! The "thumbing" he mentioned was what I had to do to chamber a round all of the way when "Wifey's" P380 had the bad extractor. I could push the slide forward with my thumb and fire the pistol, but the claw had not engaged the case rim, so it was "blowback" operation.

I think a loose slide lock spring retainer screw can cause that, too... the slide not going fully into battery.

Wynn:)

[SGT5711]

I have a P380 and a K9, which were both purchased new. I don't recall either having magazines which were "covered in Cosmoline."

[wyntrout]

I usually take the mags apart and remove the lubrication from the factory. It's a light coating but kind of thick on the inside of the tube. I force paper towels through the tube a few times until it's shiny and then just lightly oil the spring a bit with some oil on my fingers. I lightly sand the follower edges and the feed lips at the top to remove any possible burrs... the magazine catch notch, too, inside and out... not disturbing the sharp ledge, though. I don't want to round the edges and cause the mags to not be securely latched in place. I make sure the spring is oriented with a loose or free end under the front of the follower for maximum lift, too.

Wynn:)

[dorangolv]

Hey guys.
Thank's for the welcome.
I wrote that as soon as I got home from the range. As you could tell, I was in a bad mood and bent out of shape having discovered my new gun doesn't function. I've read through the replies and I have done some of those things already. Watched the take down/ rebuild video. Torn down both mags to check for correct spring install and follower snag on mag release. Both OK.

I can say when the gun fired and cycled normally, I loved it. Accuracy, smooth trigger, and feel in the hand. But the issues got me down.

"For members here to be of much help, might I suggest you be a little more descriptive about your FTF/FTE problems."
Here are more detailed descriptions of the issues:
As far as failure to feed, sometimes round would jam with the bullet stuck at the top of the feed ramp. Other times it would be just about 1/8" short of going into battery. As I mentioned, pressing against the rear of the slide with my thumb moved it into battery the rest of the way. Sometimes it was really stuck and I would have to smack it with the heel of my palm.

This is why I laughed out loud when I read downtownv's signature,
"The loudest sound in the world is a “click” when you need a “bang.”"

On the failure to eject, the brass didn't even get as far as a stove pipe. It would get caught with the open end of the case still 2/3 in the chamber.
I noticed the casings fly in all directions when ejected. Sometimes they hit me in the forehead, sometimes straight up in the air and down at my feet, sometimes back and to the right, sometimes straight behind me about 8 or 10 feet. The casings are really chewed up where the extractor grabs them. And then there is a long scratch on the opposite side from the ejector. I've never seen that before on anything. The range officer thought it was unusual, too. I kept as many casings as I could to send back to Kahr if needed.

Does it cost anything to send it to Kahr for inspection and repair? (inspection and evaluation fee, postal cost to and from, etc.,etc.)

"The "thumbing" he mentioned was what I had to do to chamber a round all of the way when "Wifey's" P380 had the bad extractor. I could push the slide forward with my thumb and fire the pistol, but the claw had not engaged the case rim, so it was "blowback" operation."

This makes perfect sense. it would help to explain the wild trajectory when ejecting. I'll look more closely at the "Claw"

"let's look at a few things.
Take the barrel out of the pistol and drop a live round into the chamber. Check that the back of the round is at least flush with the rear of the barrel hood. If it isn't you will need to either try different ammo or contact Kahr about the problem. A local gunsmith should also be able to rectify this (most likely finish ream the chamber)."
I'll do this too, thank's.

"If the round does fit flush, have you:
Tried both magazines?
Checked that the pistol is properly lubed?
Checked that the recoil spring is installed with the more open end towards the muzzle? (a new recoil spring would be a good investment).
Examined the extractor and breech face for damage?
Cleaned the slide completely (to include the extractor tunnel)?
Tried a gripping the pistol differently?"

What lube do you recommend?
Recoil spring installed correctly.
Need to check the extractor, ejector and breech face more closely.
Gun was new (read 'hardly used')out of the box, cleaned and inspected by the gunshop who sold it.
Tried gripping different ways; offhand, one hand, high thumb, squeeze the hell out of it till my hands were shaking. Even my co-worker had a Failure To Feed after only one round fired.
Thank's again guys.
I'll make these checks and get back to you.

[dorangolv]

On Monday I was out in the dessert shooting my new Polymer framed Kahr P45.
Buying that thing was a mistake. EXTREMELY finicky and temperamental. Literally hundreds of Failure To Feed and Failure To Eject episodes with this gun.
I'm over 400 rounds by now and it seems to be improving. I did take some 600 grit Emery Cloth to the slide and barrel where they interface. At first I had to press the barrel into battery with an audible *snap* sound because it was so tight. After I spent about an hour checking and sanding, it finally falls into place with very slight bind. Didn't want to alter it completely. I wanted to leave room for the parts to break each other in and be mated together. Plus, If I send it back to Kahr, I didn't want to risk having a voided warranty due to "Tampering."
No more FTE's, now only FTF. And they are fewer and farther between. Still doesn't go completely into battery. I need to press on the back of the slide with my thumb to move it that last 1/8" before I can fire the next round.
I was at a range yesterday where the in house gun smith was a big Kahr fan. He came out to my stall at the request of the RO and looked over the gun. Took it back to his shop for a couple minutes and returned with the gun smeared with gun lube paste. Still had the same issue where the slide does not go fully into battery. And sometimes it won't pull the first cartridge off of a fresh mag. Just slides right over the top of it.
He couldn't see why it was malfunctioning but suggested sending it back to Kahr after contacting them and getting a Repair Authorization Number.
They pick it up from the house via FedEx and send it back to the house after about two weeks.
Waiting a couple days for the warranty card to arrive there and for me to be registered in their system before calling. :31:

[gb6491]

...And sometimes it won't pull the first cartridge off of a fresh mag. Just slides right over the top of it.
....
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=15671&postcount=4

[dorangolv]

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=15671&postcount=4
Thank's gb6491
I followed the link you provided and looked at his stripping problem. I figured out my issue with the failure to strip off the top round from the magazine.
I had the bright idea of increasing the return spring tension to try and fix the FTF problem. I figured that if the spring is "Too weak", I could make it "stronger" by adding a small washer between it and the guide rod. At work I made 4 tiny washers that fit over the guide rod. I tried only one first. It did not change the failure to feed. It only created new problems. The washer prevented the slide from traveling all the way to the rear.That's why it would not strip the first round off the top of the magazine. It also made it REALLY hard to lock open the slide. I told the in-house gunsmith what I did and removed the washer. Slide traveled back fully and stripped the first round Ok and locked back, too. Still had the same Failure To Feed whereby the slide does not travel that last 1/8" into battery.
I'll contact Kahr tomorrow.

[dorangolv]

I just got my P45 to run without failure. I'm still conditioned from experience to anticipate a jam after every shot fired. The last 250 rds have been almost flawless.
I'll keep it running wet the way I have been.

Let a friend shoot 4 mags in a row last Sunday. It was the first Kahr he'd ever fired. He loved it! No failures. Since he was shooting an XDs45, he wasn't accustomed to the long Kahr trigger pull and reset.
I'm not even sure if I am even after 1,150 rounds fired since September 16, 2013 when I bought it. I never quite now when The Beastie's going to go BANG!

It was the first time shooting with this guy who is a co-worker. We always talk guns when at work but we never went out. I think he was surprised that I was hitting everything I shot at. I saw him a couple times out the corner of my eye watching me plink away at his steel target without failure or miss. Really caught his attention. It's only a 3.5" barrel! I was having a blast showing off the accuracy of this Little Monster. Making a Coke can jump around from 25 yards in the cold desert air warmed my heart. I concur with John Lennon, "Happiness is a warm gun, yeah."
I'm really pretty excited now to have a gun that works. It's all I think about. I feel like a little kid with a brand new bike and he wants nothing more than to ride around all day long.
Now to shop for a belt and holster!

[dorangolv]

:oI think I might have fixed the problem(s) with my P45. Haven't had any failures of any kind since making these repairs.:eek::D:001_tt2::amflag:
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=21904