One in the chamber?

[Finfan64]

I am just curious how many of you guys carry your EDC weapon with one in the chamber? I have a CM9 that is going to be my new concealed carry gun and I am contemplating weather to carry one in the chamber of a gun that has no external safety. I know ultimately it is personal preferance, but I just wanted to see what others are doing.

Thanks.

[MW surveyor]

again. :D:popcorn:

Yes, one in the chamber. Too old to even think about racking the slide if I have to pull the gun.

[jocko]

I didn't know there was anutter way to carry a defense weapon. damn learn sumpin ew every day.

u should do also what u feel comforatable with, as the answers ur gonna get here right now are not on the same track as ur thoughts are..

[RevRay]

I was where you're at until about 2 months ago ... now I'm where they're at ... and I carry AIWB. When you actually stop to think about it it doesn't make sense not to ... you can't anticipate what your eventual scenario is going to be so it's best to be as prepared as possible. You just have to do it ... once you've done it a couple of times it's no big deal.

[chrish]

Always, always. One in the chamber. For me anyway. It's been tossed around here before and I'd say 80-90% of the folks here hold the same position.

Given the Kahr design and how tight they can be and what it takes to chamber a round, my PERSONAL thought is that of all the guns out there you could carry, the Kahr is the one you definitely don't want to carry without a round in the chamber.

You don't want to flub up a slingshot when your life depends on it. That's harder to do with other pistols, but easy to do with a Kahr. Particularly a new one with < 1000 rounds thru it.

[GEARHEAD_ENG]

Every second counts in a situation if you need fight for you life. The safety on the P/CM9 is the very long trigger pull. With a holster that covers the trigger gaurd and proper handeling of a firearm (treat it like its loaded), there is little to worry about.

This is a very good video by Massad Ayoob that covers a lot of these points.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZnONYsSY64&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

[Finfan64]

That was my thinking all along. My CM9 has less than 300 rounds through it and is still very stiff. I really don't want to have to sling shot the slide and have the first round not chamber if my life were on the line. I have a few guys at work that carry and think it is too dangerous to carry one in the chamber. My thinking is it is too dangerous NOT to carry one in the chamber. Six-plus-one in the chamber it is !

[RevRay]

Boy, that was easy.

[GEARHEAD_ENG]

That was my thinking all along. My CM9 has less than 300 rounds through it and is still very stiff. I really don't want to have to sling shot the slide and have the first round not chamber if my life were on the line. I have a few guys at work that carry and think it is too dangerous to carry one in the chamber. My thinking is it is too dangerous NOT to carry one in the chamber. Six-plus-one in the chamber it is !

Yep, how many revolvers use an external safety? Long heavy trigger pull is normal. Some people even recommend leaving the cylinder empty on them too. Modern double action revolvers have drop safetys built in.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

[downtownv]

Everybody, has one in the Chamber! ok?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[ParrotHead]

Always one in the pipe. What's the point otherwise?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/KublaKhan/Reaganoid.gif

[Dirty Harry]

A gun with out one in the chamber is a rock.

[Acasper708]

The holster is the safety!

[xsailer]

Like the man said, once you put it in a holster made for the weapon (trigger covered) it is totally safe. I worried about it for a while but over the last several months of carry it's not a problem. I rear pocket carry my cm9 and learned from a post to NOT re-holster the weapon with the holster still in your pocket. Take it out each time and re-holster for obvious reason's if you think about it. I don't want my RH cheek going anywhere but in my pants..and I want all of it, no matter how little I have.

bob

[kwh]

every day carry in front pocket holster. Always one in chamber.

[garyb]

New to carrying a gun? You'll get used to having one in the chamber very quickly. Keep the trigger covered in a holster and you will feel much safer. That gun has a Looonnnngggg trigger, so stop worrying about it lacking a safety. You don't need a safety either. You DO need one in the chamber. Start getting comfortable with that new gun and good luck with it.

[Finfan64]

New to carrying a gun? You'll get used to having one in the chamber very quickly. Keep the trigger covered in a holster and you will feel much safer. That gun has a Looonnnngggg trigger, so stop worrying about it lacking a safety. You don't need a safety either. You DO need one in the chamber. Start getting comfortable with that new gun and good luck with it.

I am not new to concealed carry, just new to carrying a semi-auto pistol as my EDC. But you guys are right my snub nose .38 has a DA only trigger as the "safety".

Thanks again for all the replies.

Carry on !

[AIRret]

Always carry with one in the chamber!
Beside being able to respond to a threat sooner, you will ALSO have one extra round to fight with!!
And while I'm at it, carry at least one spare magazine.

[garyb]

I am not new to concealed carry, just new to carrying a semi-auto pistol as my EDC. But you guys are right my snub nose .38 has a DA only trigger as the "safety".

Thanks again for all the replies.

Carry on !

Cool!

[7shot]

For me, one in the chamber is the way I roll. Kahr is a very safe and well designed pistol, so unless you pull the trigger while it's holstered your as safe as can be. Go to the range and shoot it more to get more comfortable with its macanics. Then go for it...

[muggsy]

A gun ain't loaded unless it's fully loaded with one in the chamber and a full magazine.

[TheTman]

One in the chamber. Otherwise you might not have time to rack the slide, or have an arm out of commission or who knows what.

[The Faux King]

I always carry with one in the chamber -- seems that is the general consensus on this board.

[kwh]

Front pocket carry and always 6+1.

[RRP]

There are a number of firearms instructors that advocate carrying NUP (Nothing Up the Pipe). Their rationale is that the likelihood you will ever have to use your CCW is so slim, that it does not warrant increasing your risk of accidental or negligent discharge by constantly carrying with a round in the chamber. They cite many accidents which could have been avoided if the person carried NUP.

I'm not accustomed to carrying NUP, but I will acknowledge that with some training, it's possible to get pretty quick at firing the first shot. Here's a YouTube video of a guy using a shot timer to assess his speed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dURCjNxXIZE

[garyb]

There are a number of firearms instructors that advocate carrying NUP (Nothing Up the Pipe). Their rationale is that the likelihood you will ever have to use your CCW is so slim, that it does not warrant increasing your risk of accidental or negligent discharge by constantly carrying with a round in the chamber. They cite many accidents which could have been avoided if the person carried NUP.

I'm not accustomed to carrying NUP, but I will acknowledge that with some training, it's possible to get pretty quick at firing the first shot. Here's a YouTube video of a guy using a shot timer to assess his speed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dURCjNxXIZE

Condition 3 carry is "Unnecessary" with the DAO trigger on a Kahr. It may be for carry with a sensitive trigger. If you do carry "condition 3" or NUP, you had better practice it....dry...many, many times to "remain" proficient. Secondly, you had better first be sure that your gun will operate properly, as some Kahr handguns are known to operate properly only by racking with the slide release.....other's will operate by sling shot too...and racking off a belt is another matter. Keep your finger off the trigger if you rack off your belt or holster, because your leg on that side is at risk. I believe this is what makes the techniques NUTs, unless your MUST rack that way due to injury to the weak hand. NUP appears to be safer on the surface, but it is slower and riskier to the leg beneath the belt rack....which may make NUP less safe in reality. NUP should be practiced (dry) or with snap caps just for that reason. In hand to hand combat, racking off the belt requires ALOT of practice...so much that most guys are not going to do it well.

The 4 conditions:
0. One up the pipe, fully loaded, safety off, hammer back.
1. One up the pipe, fully loaded and safety on.
2. One upn the pipe, fully loaded and hammer down (1911)
3. NUP - Nothing Up The Pipe, mag loaded, (may even have safety on)

NUP Should read "NUTP" - Nothing Up The Pipe.....
or a "NUT Person"

[Tinman507]

Resurrecting an oldie but a goodie

8pU2IOTEZlU

[Barth]

I am just curious how many of you guys carry your EDC weapon with one in the chamber? I have a CM9 that is going to be my new concealed carry gun and I am contemplating weather to carry one in the chamber of a gun that has no external safety. I know ultimately it is personal preferance, but I just wanted to see what others are doing.

Thanks.

To me, asking that question screams -
"I need firearms training. Someone please help me!"

[Finfan64]

Thanks for your expert opinion!

:mad:

[garyb]

Resurrecting an oldie but a goodie

8pU2IOTEZlU

That's a great spoof, Tinman. At first I thought the guy was serious, "99% of people that carry a loaded weapon eventually shoot themselves"...."Bad guy charging you from 100 yrds away"...."I have all the means assembled to.....". I thought, this guy is full of bull. It took me awhile to catch on....haha.
Perhaps I AM a little slow and SHOULD simply carry on in the pipe! Just say'in....Good one.

[Barth]

That video is hilarious.
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/8pU2IOTEZlU/default.jpg

[RRP]

"I have STDs". That is funny sh!t.

[Bill K]

I may not be an expert but I can recommend from personal experience... Carry with a round in the chamber! You may neither have the time or the ability to rack the slide. There can be instances when just fractions of a second can mean a ride in an ambulance or not. And how many of us have developed and mastered a technique to rack the slide with one hand?

[Longitude Zero]

Without a round in the chamber a gun is nothing more than a very short handled club. A baseball bat is more useful than a chamber unloaded F/A/ IMHO

[The Faux King]

^ Agreed!

[muggsy]

Faux King? Isn't that a reference to Chinese royalty?

[jocko]

I may not be an expert but I can recommend from personal experience... Carry with a round in the chamber! You may neither have the time or the ability to rack the slide. There can be instances when just fractions of a second can mean a ride in an ambulance or not. And how many of us have developed and mastered a technique to rack the slide with one hand?

and as well as u should know to.nice post. Always makes me think that when a person asks that question, that he is not a "gun" person . So maybe instead of sme of us pounding him like a nail in a board, give him some slack of "just not knowing"
What might be a dumb question to us,must not be to dumb of a a question from the person who is asking the question.:amflag:

[h2ohhh]

Great video. Think I will try it. But I'm putting a round on the barrel BEFORE assembly. Then I can yell 'this thing is loaded' while he's stabbing me....

Don't own a glock...is there no slide pin on one?

[Barth]

and as well as u should know to.nice post. Always makes me think that when a person asks that question, that he is not a "gun" person . So maybe instead of sme of us pounding him like a nail in a board, give him some slack of "just not knowing"
What might be a dumb question to us,must not be to dumb of a a question from the person who is asking the question.:amflag:

Were the h*ll is Jocko and what have you done with him???

I'm just sayin...

[muggsy]

I started my gun career as a hunter. We always carried our shotguns and rifles with one in the chamber safety on. I've never carried a double action revolver that wasn't fully loaded. My first semi-auto was a 1911 which I was trained to carry Condition I. I've carried a gun most of my adult life and never experienced a negligent discharge. Gun safety is no accident. Carrying with one in the chamber maybe a personal choice, but not carrying one in the chamber can be a matter of life or death.

[Longitude Zero]

Gun safety is no accident.



Precisely.

[dorangolv]

There is a reason why gun makers always advertise "6 +1 or 8 +1" or 13 +1 as in the case of my Springfield Armory XD45. My co-worker just bought the new FNP which boasts 15 +1 in 45ACP!! :eek:

[RRP]

Are you saying that the gun is advertised as 6+1, rather than 7, because the +1 is optional?

[dorangolv]

If you say 7 rd capacity, someone will inevitably ask, "Is that 6 +1 for a total of 7 or is that a 7rd magazine?"
They advertise 15 + 1 etc., etc., because they are telling the customer the actual full capacity of the weapon. It's for clarity. Adding +1 is stating the true full capacity of the weapon. It's up to the individual end user to decide if he wants to carry the extra +1.
I'm just stating what is obvious. The number of rounds in the magazine + the one extra in the chamber.
It's what I've seen in every article written about a new gun. It's just part of the vocabulary in the gun world to refer to the gun as XYZ + 1.
I'm currently shopping for a holster. When I want to check my P45 for fit in a holster, I have to drop the magazine (6) and pull back the slide to eject the one in the chamber. (+1) in order to show Clear. To empty my gun, I don't eject a 7 round magazine, it's a 6 rd mag +1 from the chamber.

[RRP]

It's up to the individual end user to decide if he wants to carry the extra +1.


I am in total agreement with this.

I have never carried with an empty chamber, but I acknowledge that some people may have a good reason to do so. Some guns, particularly older designs, are not drop-safe. It makes perfect sense to carry these without a round in the chamber.

Other people are just not comfortable carrying in condition 1. For those people, it is still better to carry with an empty chamber, than to not carry at all.

Safe Shootin'

[dorangolv]

I am in total agreement with this.

I have never carried with an empty chamber, but I acknowledge that some people may have a good reason to do so. Some guns, particularly older designs, are not drop-safe. It makes perfect sense to carry these without a round in the chamber.

Other people are just not comfortable carrying in condition 1. For those people, it is still better to carry with an empty chamber, than to not carry at all.

We agree.

Funny thing is, I feel more comfortable carrying my Kahr P45 condition 1 than I do my Springfield Armory XD45 condition 1 even though the XD has a grip safety AND trigger safety. It is a 4 lb short pull to go bang. When holstering, the grip safety is depressed. What if a piece of my T-shirt gets caught in the trigger guard as the gun is pressed down into the holster?
Bang! :eek:
I read an article where a guy was getting into a car when his Glock fired a round through the seat and floor of the vehicle. Why? Because his old leather holster had broken in and developed a wrinkle right at the trigger guard. When sitting down, that same wrinkle was pressed against the trigger, activating the trigger safety and firing the weapon.
oops.

[garyb]

Good points and something to consider for sure....if your gun is not safe (for some reason) with one in the chamber...I probably would not own it. If you are not 100% sure of yourself or your weapon, by all means, use good common sense. It is better to err on the side of being safe. I can see someone leaving the pipe empty under those conditions.
However, like Muggsy, I am an avid hunter. It is a way of life here and I spend literally months in the woods each year. I am very much used to carrying all my hunting tools and SD tools with one in the pipe... for many, many years. I can't imagine it any other way. I've never had an accidental discharge. Like Muggsy said, Gun Safety is no accident. Safety is a 100% conscious effort.

[nimdabew]

We agree.

Funny thing is, I feel more comfortable carrying my Kahr P45 condition 1 than I do my Springfield Armory XD45 condition 1 even though the XD has a grip safety AND trigger safety. It is a 4 lb short pull to go bang. When holstering, the grip safety is depressed. What if a piece of my T-shirt gets caught in the trigger guard as the gun is pressed down into the holster?
Bang! :eek:


This is a training issue, not a gun issue. When holstering, you should be disengaging the grip safety by taking your thumb and pressing the back of the slide into the holster instead of pushing down with the web of your hand against the grip safety. If you look at a gun with a hammer in the same situation, you would be able to feel the hammer getting cocked back if the trigger was engaged somehow, but in the XD case, you should be feeling the slide going into the holster. If the slide does catch on something on the way in, you will feel it as well. Pressing on the back of slide vs pushing with the web of your hand also ensures that your slide is fully seated against the breech/case and won't be out of battery when you draw for whatever reason.

[southern thunder]

Yes, always.

[TheTman]

Great video. Think I will try it. But I'm putting a round on the barrel BEFORE assembly. Then I can yell 'this thing is loaded' while he's stabbing me....

Don't own a glock...is there no slide pin on one?



Glocks have a pair of tabs that you squeeze on to remove the slide, no slide pin needed.

[dorangolv]

...you should be disengaging the grip safety by taking your thumb and pressing the back of the slide into the holster instead of pushing down with the web of your hand against the grip safety.

Excellent point. I don't have a proper holster, only a Galco belly band. When I do buy a holster, you can be sure I'll keep my hand off the grip safety as I practice un-holstering and re-holstering 100 times.;)

[addictedhealer]

Always loaded like all the other guns in my house.. I feel no need to leave them unloaded.. When out and about always one in the chamber.

[turn signal]

PM9 one in the chamber.
Might as well have a stick otherwise.
I dont carry weapons with a safety, theres always one in the pipe, I am the safety.

[AIRret]

Always one in the chamber!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If a person isn't comfortable with one in the chamber then I guess they should never carry a revolver.

[Southerngunner]

ALWAYS HAVE ONE IN THE CHAMBER, The only safety that needs to be engaged is the one between your ears.

[Bawanna]

I just checked there's nothing between my ears that looks like a safety?

Need more info.

[jocko]

I just checked there's nothing between my ears that looks like a safety?

Need more info.

after over 20K posts, u have finally spoken the TRUTH. Concrapulations colonel:amflag:

[Bawanna]

My work here is done!

[itsthelaw]

Finfan... You're going to get your balls busted on this one, but it is a process. I have one in chamber and carry AIWB with no thumb safety. I would not have done it this way on day one and wouldn't even recommend it. YOU have to be confident in it. You can carry however you want until you are ready, but just get to where you can get off a round ASAP. If that means one in battery and a thumb safety, then train for it. You will not want to rack the slide. Getting the gun out of your holster and on target is slow enough and you may only have one hand.

[muggsy]

I just checked there's nothing between my ears that looks like a safety.

You could have placed that period after the word ears for the sake of brevity. Just sayin'. :)

[bugs]

we are taught to regard ALL guns as loaded ALL the time so load up +1 and KNOW you have a FULLY loaded gun on your person. no safety on your CM? I beg to differ, our trigger finger is the most reliable safety we can have.

NRA LIFER
IDPA BELEIVER

[RRP]

I just checked there's nothing between my ears that looks like a safety?


You could have placed that period after the word ears for the sake of brevity. Just sayin'. :)

Classic muggsy right there. Thanks for reviving a forgotten thread.

[dustnchips]

I can't think of anyway a Kahr could possibly fire without pulling the trigger. Why would anyone want a safety to fumble with? Anything that has the hammer in the cocked position I don't trust.

[tom.p]

Personal preference...if you feel nervous about a loaded gun with no external safety, don't carry a Kahr. No shame in that, but be comfortable with whatever gun you use. Just seems foolish to me to have to rack the slide before using a self-defense gun. You'd be much better off just having to move the external safety on another gun.

[berettabone]

or carry a hammer..................................:o

[WesLey]

Just read this whole thread and have a thought about spring tension ... do you think that leaving the weapon loaded all the time will weaken the firing pin spring to a point of failure. I do carry loaded ... I was a grunt in Nam and have no problem snuggling up to a loaded weapon ... but hearing 50 safety's coming off in the middle of the night is nerve racking ..... As far as I know everyone carried live in our unit ... NEVER heard a misfire in the year I was there.

[Ed M]

... but hearing 50 safety's coming off in the middle of the night is nerve racking .....

Just hearing ONE gets my attention.

Every single one of my pistols is fully loaded, with one in the chamber - unless I'm cleaning it, or handing it to someone else. In almost 40 years, I've never had an issue with a weakened firing pin spring because of this. I'm convinced that static loading does nothing to springs, hence the need to actually run rounds through your weapon to break it in vs just hand racking it....

[AIRret]

I always carry with one in the chamber.
However, I know a guy that leaves his chamber empty and it has led to sloppy, "careless" re-holstering technique. Now that will be fine for him if he NEVER carry's with one in the chamber, but if he decides to change he has a lot of INGRAINED bad habits to break! NOT GOOD!

[WesLey]

Just hearing ONE gets my attentio
In almost 40 years, I've never had an issue with a weakened firing pin spring because of this. I'm convinced that static loading does nothing to springs, hence the need to actually run rounds through your weapon to break it in vs just hand racking it....

I have some AR-15 magazines that have been loaded for 25 years .. I haven't shot the AR in 25 years either but every once in awhile I will push down on the rounds in some of the magazines and they feel as though they would feed ok ... but, on the other hand when I bought my CW380 I locked the slide back for four or so days and it caused the slide not to close ... new spring and no more problems ... I'm also thinking the firing pin spring will be fine.

[tom.p]

... do you think that leaving the weapon loaded all the time will weaken the firing pin spring to a point of failure.

At least in theory, it's the motion on the springs that causes wear. Remaining compressed should not. And keep in mind that engineers much smarter than me and you (definitely smarter than me anyway), who understand the properties of metals, designed these guns to operate this way. I'd like to think they did their homework first.

[Barth]

Condition Butterscotch
"99% or 100% of people carrying a loaded gun with a round in the chamber.
Will shoot themselves or someone they love in the face"

Just rewatched that video.
It's just too funny :D

[Phish]

If you can't reasonably carry in C1 condition then you have no business carrying! Keep your sissy butt on the porch then! LOL

If I remembered correctly, one of the old Border patrol agent said it correctly. A person asked him if it was loaded and he quickly pointed it out to that person who asked! Of course it is. Cause if it wasn't, the damned thing wouldn't be dangerous!

[dustnchips]

Your Kahr striker springs are not loaded until you begin to pull the trigger, so carrying with a round in the chamber could not possibly degrade the spring. That is one of the reasons I consider them one of the safest guns. Add in the striker block that only lifts at the very end of the trigger pull and you have one very safe gun. The only way it goes off is to pull the trigger. Never put your finger on the trigger until you have the gun clear of your clothes and holster and have it pointed at your target. Of course any gun is only as safe as the person holding it.

[ct9kahrtoter]

Why do people get so freaked out about a round in the chamber? If you have a quality firearm, and you practice safe gun handling, what in the world would you be worried about? This age old debate STILL baffles me. :rolleyes:

[AIRret]

dustnchips, your statement; "Of course any gun is only as safe as the person holding it." There's NEVER been a truer statement about gun safety!! Amen!!

[1stnamebassist]

I always carry with a round in the chamber. Get a holster that covers the trigger, and keep your finger off the trigger until your ready to shoot. If the thought of a semiauto with a loaded chamber bothers you maybe consider carrying a double action revolver.

[stubshaft]

Your Kahr striker springs are not loaded until you begin to pull the trigger, so carrying with a round in the chamber could not possibly degrade the spring. That is one of the reasons I consider them one of the safest guns. Add in the striker block that only lifts at the very end of the trigger pull and you have one very safe gun. The only way it goes off is to pull the trigger. Never put your finger on the trigger until you have the gun clear of your clothes and holster and have it pointed at your target. Of course any gun is only as safe as the person holding it.

Having a sacked striker spring was the primary reason I carried wheelies for so long. The fact that the spring is not fully loaded until the trigger is pulled on a Kahr, is the reason I'm willing to try again.

[mattallamerican]

you might be better off with a hammer if you don't have one up the tube