View Full Version : night sights?
speshl
10-01-2013, 01:55 PM
Hello, anyone have any ideas on a good set of night sights for a mk9? Would love to find some that have different colors from front to rear sight.
:amflag:
ParabellumJ
10-01-2013, 02:07 PM
Trijicon HD
addictedhealer
10-01-2013, 07:47 PM
http://www.kahr.com/Sights/Sights.asp
garyb
10-03-2013, 06:59 AM
If I were to do it over, I would go with Dawson Precision sights and forgo the night sights....because I put a CTL on. The CTL makes the night sights kind of useless at night anyway. The Dawsons are much more practical in the day. Fiber Optic front and flat black rear. You'll improve your day and night application with this combo. JMO
I have had night sites on many of my different self-defense pistols. Almost all my training and gear selection is oriented toward self defense purposes. Kahrs are self defense pistols. Simple, ergonomic, reliable, safe, concealable. Pull and shoot the close range threat to the ground. Sights? Nice to have. Rarely used. Night sights? Extra expense for even more rarely used situations, IMO. Spend the money on training, ammo, real world practice.
A few years ago I took a point shooting progressions course and then took the same course as a refresher the next year. Point shooting recognizes that at close ranges and under circumstances where you have to fire quickly lining up sites is not necessary to get hits. The shooting starts from a low tight retention position, just out of the holster, and continues along the draw stroke until the gun is in front of the eyes, when the sights might be used.
As well, taking a Force-on-Force air soft defense course (FoF) will teach you real quickly that sights are not used or necessary for close range self defense. Natural pointing wins, and not necessarily at full extension out in front of your eyes, where you have to (but CANNOT) take your focus off the aggressor to line up sights. Your arm and hand will naturally point at the threat.
Sights are for precision shooting, usually at longer than bad breath distances. Self defense is most often at bad breath distances, and often in the dark, most usually without the use of sights--not even the vaunted front sight. Video after video of gun encounters show the body and mind will naturally point shoot in close encounters of the bad kind. Training to do well what the body is going to do instinctively makes sense to me.
So, the usefulness of night sights for me would be when I had time to line them up, in the dark, at a relatively long range, probably without a whole lot of pressure from lead whizzing by head. That scenario is so low on my probability scale that I don't see the need anymore.
Some pistols point better for an individual than others because of grip angle, size, barrel length, etc. When you find a self defense pistol that points naturally for you, practicing point shooting at close ranges with that pistol will produce consistent CoM hits. Getting 4-5 rounds into CoM really fast will win a fight for you faster than one shot taken after lining up sights. If you have the time to line up night sights for a shot that needs to be more precise than competent, practiced point shooting, it may be you don't need to be shooting in the first place.
garyb
10-03-2013, 09:48 AM
I see your point CB3 and I do not disagree. Like you said, you still need sights for precision shooting....and/or laser. Even though my PM40 has night sights (and I don't plan on replacing them because they work), that's why I propose Dawson's for daylight hours...front fiber optic and back flat black. It is a proven combo for competition shooting as the eye picks up the fiber optic front sight very quickly and sets it automatically in the flat black rear sight. Low light, you can still see it. At night, the CTL works fast and is great for instinctive point and aim practice. Again, not in any way disagreeing with anything you said. Just adding my opinion based on a lot of competition shooting practice with fiber optic front sight and the night time advantages of the CTL.
jocko
10-03-2013, 12:03 PM
If I were to do it over, I would go with Dawson Precision sights and forgo the night sights....because I put a CTL on. The CTL makes the night sights kind of useless at night anyway. The Dawsons are much more practical in the day. Fiber Optic front and flat black rear. You'll improve your day and night application with this combo. JMO
dawson fiberoptic adjustable sights on my G19 and they are just awesome. red front and dual green back. super accurate sight and the light up like a diamond in a goats ass. I would agree that maybe we put tomuch emphasis on NITE sights as a must, for as long as there is any daylight my fiber sightsdo great. I do love my xs big dot night front sight, I could care less about if the back sight is lighted up. I think the xs is a toss up forme even as to fiber optic or xs big dot..
I do think Dawson makes some of the finest sights out there, there rear adjustable for the G19 is not gaudy, or obtrusive, and the fokkers work great. Just sayin
quikduk
10-03-2013, 03:57 PM
...they light up like a diamond in a goats ass...
I am sure it couldn't be put any better!
Still trying to picture the goat's face though...:D
jeepster09
10-03-2013, 04:40 PM
I have to say I tried Dawson's and yes they are bright....HOWEVER...if you are using for carry gun they are to fragile in my opinion. They can come loose or break to easily and possibly snag on something when carrying concealed. I just don't think you can beat the XS Big Dots.
http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG-20120202-00112.jpg (http://s691.photobucket.com/user/jeepster09/media/IMG-20120202-00112.jpg.html)
garyb
10-04-2013, 12:57 PM
Any gun or sight could break. I have Dawson's on two of my handguns. Never had a problem. Lots of guys use them. They are very well made. I'd put one on my primary carry, but it already has very nice night sights on it. Not that I would go that route again, but no need to change them. The Dawson fiber optic is shrouded in a metal frame to protect it. Go to Dawson Precision's site to check them out. Some guys carry a BUG...I carry a BUS....haha.
jeepster09
10-04-2013, 03:45 PM
The gunsmiths at Ahlman's told me they have quite the stockpile of fiber optics because they replace a lot of them that get knocked out or damaged. I beleave it just by looking at most of them. I can't argue they are great for seeing.
garyb
10-05-2013, 03:07 PM
I can believe what Ahlman's is telling you for some fiber optic sights on the market. Many of them are NOT made to protect the fiber, which just hangs out there. I've got fiber optic sights on a number of guns. All of them are well made and I've never replaced a one of them. Dawson's front sights are a much different creature, because are made to protect the fiber which is shrouded in metal and rests firmly cradled against the metal base, tucked down out of the way. Besides, changing a fiber is no big deal. In fact, Dawson provides a couple of colors for you to choose from with your new sight. Simply swap it out. If by chance one does break on a Dawson, you still have the front sight frame in place and can shoot it with the same accuracy until you replace it. The benefit of a WELL MADE fiber optic front sight far outweighs the "potential" of the fiber breaking when they are so reliable and easily replaced. With all due respect to you, it is a non issue IMO...Sorry Jeepster. I guess it is a mute point anyway. The thread is about finding night sights. LOL.
jeepster09
10-05-2013, 07:30 PM
Fiber optics are NOT NIGHT sights. The TFO's can work as a night sight using Tritium and Fiber Optics. Back to my original point XS Bigdots are the best NIGHT sight out there for a Kahr [which is not made to be a target gun].
Alfonse
10-05-2013, 10:14 PM
I use the XS big dot sights on my carry and things bumping around in the night pistols. I do have some three dot (trijicon or true dot) on some pistols that I use at the range and that could be used as nightstand pistols too. I can shoot better at 25 yards with the three-dot, but don't really care about 25 yards for some guns and am quicker with the XS sights. I have some fiber optic sights on range guns and like those too.
Dave says the metal sight base, not just the FO rod, broke,twice.
"This is the second Dawson fiber optic sight I broke. Here is the story on the first one. http://www.berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=91385
This time I've got video. I haven't videoed myself shooting in a while so today I thought I would, and I just happened to break my sight on camera.
I'm working some press-out drills on a plate rack at 15-yards at my range, and even though I work many other drills, I just happened to be working press-out drills the last time my sight broke.
Now you tell me if I'm being too rough with this sight. I'll clear the first rack and then I'll notice it's broken on the first shot of the second rack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B78vkgC2HDA
God Bless,
David"
garyb
10-06-2013, 03:53 PM
Sorry that happened to you...twice....Hmmmm. Hope you figure out what's causing it on your gun. Didn't look like it was you on the vid. Lots and lots of guys are using the Dawson without those problems.
garyb
10-07-2013, 08:26 AM
CB3, I was wondering if by some chance the wrong size fiber was placed in your sight. If it is smaller diameter it would rattle around in the holes of the metal ends. Just a thought. I know sights can break...anything can break, but I've seen these Dawsons take a lot of hard wear and tear without breaking that easily. They are on the range and being carried all over the country. Something is definitely wrong for yours to have broken twice so quickly. Anyway, just a thought for you. Hope you figure it out. Best.
Dave had the problems, not me. I posted the link to his report.
He complained that the sight base broke. The rod breaking was the not the issue.
wyntrout
10-08-2013, 01:58 AM
Trijicon Tritium night sights are the best. Trijicon will replace the lamps at low cost when they dim. Speaking of dimming, the green ones have a 12-year half life/warranty and the yellow or orange ones only only 5 years.
At 12+ years I had my K9's NS re-lamped by Trijicon for $58, including return shipping. Other companies don't do that.
I prefer the HD NS, but they don't make them for Kahrs. I have them on my Glocks and my XD45. The yellow FS versions are more visible at night with the glow dot activated. The orange doesn't show as well.
I put XS Big Dots on my P40 and I hate them. I pointed naturally with the 3 dot sights, but can't get used to the Big Dots... shooting about 4" lower at 7 yards... and yeah, I know how they work and tried 4 trips to the range. They aren't for everyone and especially aren't for "target shooting".
FO sights are for day use and LASERS give away your position, unless you're firing as they come to bear on the target.
Wynn:)
jeepster09
10-09-2013, 07:35 AM
I wish Trijicon made the HD sights for more applications. They are the best in my opinion. Only problem they have very limited applications at this time.
wyntrout
10-09-2013, 12:32 PM
Those are what I wanted for my P40. Unfortunately, I broke down and "tried" the XS Big Dots. I haven't carried my P40 since then. It WAS my favorite EDC.
Wynn:)
jocko
10-09-2013, 02:30 PM
I think if were alking targettype accuracy, fiberoptics will trump the xs big dot. If u was afast , tuff as hog nuts, front sight, that if kany daylite is availalbe, ur gonna see that xs big dot better than anythingout there, then IMO humble opinion it is very hard to beat the xs big dot front sight. I really could care less what theback site is.
but as wyn stated to; THEY ARE NOT FGOR EVERYONE and some peole expect more than what the sight was designed to dol IMO. Just sayin
garyb
10-09-2013, 02:58 PM
FO sights are for day use and LASERS give away your position, unless you're firing as they come to bear on the target.
Wynn:)
Give away your position? Seriously? User need not engage the laser. We are talking about handguns in SD... Up close. Positions are known. You don't think they get used in the military? Weak argument against laser. Sorry.
jocko
10-09-2013, 03:30 PM
agree gary b. if the BG doesnt know ur coming or there, then he must e blind. I wonder what it is gonna give away. I am not a laser fan but I had a set on myJ frame someyears back and I nv er shot any J frame as accurate as I did that guyn with the laser on it. It had the ruber grips with laser in them, sothey were not even noticeable. At that time I felt that well I can't hit jack **** without these laser sights, so why would I not want them on. It made a far beter shooter ouot of me with my J frame, I can only tellyou that.
garyb
10-09-2013, 03:41 PM
Roger that Jocko. Best argument in the world against a laser is "don't like em and don't want one on my gun". You either like them or not. Now that I can go along with. But giving your position away...sorry, I'm not invisible and generally not behind cover. Under covers, yes, every night... But not about to give my positions away...haha.
wyntrout
10-09-2013, 04:21 PM
I'm just saying... if it's dark and you're looking for the target... a target... with the laser on, it's almost like using a tactical light on your pistol, as far as illuminating the pistol and along the bore axis to the target. Throw in a little fog for the movie effect and everyone sees where you're at. And... unless you have a good rest, the dot won't be rock steady as the ones in the movies!
I'm not putting down lasers for fast close-up engagements where you might want to shoot more quickly without bringing the gun up to "aim" or point.
LASERS aren't magic and because the dot was on the target when you started pulling the trigger, it doesn't mean that's where the bullet went. At the range you can shoot with or watch guys using lasers and see the squiggles as you/they pull the trigger. The bullet will impact somewhere on that SQUIGGLE which can be pretty large. It's a good aid to training proper trigger use.
Wynn:)
b4uqzme
10-09-2013, 04:47 PM
See what you started speshl? I guess the best answer is: "it depends".
If you want quick sight recognition in all lighting conditions, XS Big Dot is a great choice. I think the trade off is accuracy because of the large front sight. Shouldn't be a problem for self defense.
If you want a better sight picture for precision target, I really like my Trijicons. The trade off here is that it's harder to pick up the front sight when you are in a hurry (vs XS).
If you are shooting target only in daylight, I am converting all my range guns to a front fiber optic only (keeping the stock rear sight). This is the lowest cost option but there are questions about durability and, of course, they don't help at night.
Just my not-so-humble opinion.
Alfonse
10-09-2013, 04:55 PM
I did not realize we are talking about lasers too. I have CT lasers on three pistols. I like them just fine. They only come on when I want them too. I have night sights and lasers on at least one pistol.
Lots of things can give away position, noise, flashlights and you can give away your position with a laser, if you decide to.
garyb
10-09-2013, 08:04 PM
I'm just saying... if it's dark and you're looking for the target... a target... with the laser on, it's almost like using a tactical light on your pistol, as far as illuminating the pistol and along the bore axis to the target. Throw in a little fog for the movie effect and everyone sees where you're at. And... unless you have a good rest, the dot won't be rock steady as the ones in the movies!
I'm not putting down lasers for fast close-up engagements where you might want to shoot more quickly without bringing the gun up to "aim" or point.
LASERS aren't magic and because the dot was on the target when you started pulling the trigger, it doesn't mean that's where the bullet went. At the range you can shoot with or watch guys using lasers and see the squiggles as you/they pull the trigger. The bullet will impact somewhere on that SQUIGGLE which can be pretty large. It's a good aid to training proper trigger use.
Wynn:)
I understand what you are saying Wynn. You either like the FO and CTL or not. Likewise for the big dot and night sights. That's what the discussions are for. To each his own. We are here to help the guys who pose the questions....RIGHT? What ever you are good with...use it. No reason for us to get locked in to our preferences. One minute we like one thing, and the next minute we are trying something new. That's what it is all about. Getting better. Saving our @$$. I respect what you are saying. We are on the same team. Peace bro.
wyntrout
10-09-2013, 10:28 PM
The HD NS are the closest to perfect for me. I wish Trijicon would make them for Kahrs.
The ones with the Yellow front sight are the best day and night. If you have a few seconds to "charge" the front glow dot with a tactical light, it rivals the big dot.
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Springfield%20Arms%20XD45%20Tactical%20Pistol/New%20Trijicon%20HD%20Night%20Sights%20SP101Y/NewTrijiconHDSP101YNightSightsFront_2446.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Springfield%20Arms%20XD45%20Tactical%20Pistol/New%20Trijicon%20HD%20Night%20Sights%20SP101Y/NewTrijiconHDSP101YNightSightsNormalwithsomelight_ 2436.jpg
After activation:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Springfield%20Arms%20XD45%20Tactical%20Pistol/New%20Trijicon%20HD%20Night%20Sights%20SP101Y/NewTrijiconHDSP101YNightSightsCharged10seclwithsom elight_2439.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Springfield%20Arms%20XD45%20Tactical%20Pistol/New%20Trijicon%20HD%20Night%20Sights%20SP101Y/NewTrijiconHDSP101YNightSightschargedfrontsightwit hsomelight_2444.jpg
I put orange front-sighted ones on my G23C... not as bright after activation:
http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7853&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1362473107
Wynn:)
jeepster09
10-10-2013, 05:00 PM
I also tried both and prefer the orange. I find them much easier to see in low light and daylight that I am ok with with a little loss at night.
wyntrout
10-10-2013, 08:23 PM
The other night, I got out my G23C while I was sitting there in the dark, charged the Orange FS HD NS for about 15 seconds with one of my cheapie tac-lights at hand and it was much brighter than I remembered, but you need the light and time to "charge" it up for the extra glow. It's still 3 green Trijicon dots without the charging, though.
Wynn:)
Dondavis3
10-11-2013, 05:04 AM
I have "TruGlo TFO Tritium & Fiber Optic Gun Sights" on several of my guns.
Bright night & day
Wonderful for older eyes.
Can't seem to find any for my CM45
Anyone know where or if they sell / make them for the CM45?
:cool:
Barth
10-11-2013, 07:06 AM
NS are really a matter of personal preference.
I've put XS 24/7 express Big Dots on most of my combat pistols.
Hard to beat for fast target acquisition and a flash sight picture.
My only Kahr, a MK40 Elite, came with factory three dot NS.
I've replaced the NS on most of my other guns with Big Dots.
But for some reason I really like the Kahr factory NS on the Elite.
As for multi color sights?
Trijicon HDs are very popular.
My Talo EXO Glock G27 came with Ameriglo I-Dot Pros that were very nice.
Although I replaced them with Big Dots.
http://images2.opticsplanet.com/365-240-ffffff/opplanet-ameriglo-pro-i-dot-set-for-smith-wesson-m-p-front-is-proglo-green-tritium-with-orange-outline-single-dot-green-rear-sight-bdbddf.jpg
Batman16
11-09-2014, 10:06 PM
I have "TruGlo TFO Tritium & Fiber Optic Gun Sights" on several of my guns.
Bright night & day
Wonderful for older eyes.
Can't seem to find any for my CM45
Anyone know where or if they sell / make them for the CM45?
:cool:
Anyone find any night sights for the CM45? I thought Kahr sold them but the CM45 is excluded.
berettabone
11-12-2014, 08:10 AM
IMHO, night sights on the MK not needed. Close range firearm. I like the night sights on my Sig. I am still getting used to the orange fiber optic on my Springer, not sure if I want to change to green. I had a laser on a previous firearm....................I just try to stay away from the battery thing. Never liked them. They definitely all have their uses.
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