PM9 - Spring guide protruding from slide

[smtsd]

I just purchased a PM9, opted for a used PM9 over a new CM9. Just picked it up and noticed that the spring guide protrudes from the slide. The photos of the gun i bought do not show this. Every photo I have seen of other PM9s shows that it is flush. No matter how many times I tear it down and reassemble it, I get the same result. This is the only Kahr I have owned, and all I am going off for comparison are photos. The person I bought it from tells me this is normal, but I don't believe it is.

I have searched prior to posting, sorry in advance if there is already a thread with the answer to this. Any help is greatly appreciated.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27848989@N03/10070479013/in/set-72157636152355973

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27848989@N03/10070355384/in/set-72157636152355973

[smtsd]

https://s3-us-nca-205-prod.digitalhub.com/CAEQARoQw2RU17C-VRbKDkpy9NFThQ/01fb546d9a3ff640914684698a496c6f32d763d818/image.jpg?v=0&p=8&x=1&a=A4k48s3WFsXQiCMe&e=1380814546000&r=a85cc4d3-9a29-441f-a50b-0b4875f74c8c-3&c=CsQECqIECsUDCiFtc2RteDAwMDAwNi5ibG9iLmNvcmUud2lu ZG93cy5uZXQQUBoDR0VUIp4BL2NudC9jN1N4M1p3QlFYN2lqX0 FCUFdMSz9zcD1yJnNyPWImYnl0ZS1yYW5nZT02OTA2MTAtMTQ1 Nzg0NSZzZT0yMDEzLTEwLTAzVDE2OjA5WiZzdD0yMDEzLTEwLT AzVDE1OjE0WiZzaWc9RG9YVGFabE5ZZloydGZPUkpOVUZ5NUhr dkxnRWFUaTklMkJmdWpUbSUyQkszeXMlM0QqBEhUVFAyAzEuMT oEaHR0cEIdCgVSYW5nZRIUYnl0ZXM9NjkwNjEwLTE0NTc4NDVC PgoWeC1tcy1jbGllbnQtcmVxdWVzdC1pZBIkYTg1Y2M0ZDMtOW EyOS00NDFmLWE1MGItMGI0ODc1Zjc0YzhjQhsKDngtbXMtYmxv Yi10eXBlEglCbG9ja0Jsb2JCGgoMeC1tcy12ZXJzaW9uEgoyMD EyLTAyLTEyQioKCXgtbXMtZGF0ZRIdV2VkLCAwMiBPY3QgMjAx MyAyMjozMzowMCBHTVRCDQoGQWNjZXB0EgMqLypKCW1zX3VzX2 RteFIJczNfdXNfbmNhEjAKFYGYrWznc3_TeUrieG0HpiTTfQYz FxIRAVgeREQ3Z-7QlZ8niU4b0FYYhOouIAAaFGM3U3gzWndCUVg3aWpfQUJQV0xL IhBBM0tZT0dwd1BVSU43Q01lEh0KFQH7VG2aP_ZAkUaEaYpJbG 8y12PYGBIECAAQACAC&s=JlYTzWUvcszuT1sqgR89RV_hLhM

https://s3-us-nca-205-prod.digitalhub.com/CAEQARoQw2RU17C-VRbKDkpy9NFThQ/0114faec8736735ec3f72d34712c1624c8daae2c99/image-1.jpg?v=0&p=8&x=1&a=A4FWexxaSG68iCMe&e=1380814546000&r=a85cc4d3-9a29-441f-a50b-0b4875f74c8c-2&c=CsAECp4ECsEDCiFtc2RteDAwMDAwNi5ibG9iLmNvcmUud2lu ZG93cy5uZXQQUBoDR0VUIpwBL2NudC9jN1N4M1p3QlFYN2lqX0 FCUFdMSz9zcD1yJnNyPWImYnl0ZS1yYW5nZT00NTExMC02NTM5 NDgmc2U9MjAxMy0xMC0wM1QxNjowOVomc3Q9MjAxMy0xMC0wM1 QxNToxNFomc2lnPURvWFRhWmxOWWZaMnRmT1JKTlVGeTVIa3ZM Z0VhVGk5JTJCZnVqVG0lMkJLM3lzJTNEKgRIVFRQMgMxLjE6BG h0dHBCGwoFUmFuZ2USEmJ5dGVzPTQ1MTEwLTY1Mzk0OEI-ChZ4LW1zLWNsaWVudC1yZXF1ZXN0LWlkEiRhODVjYzRkMy05YT I5LTQ0MWYtYTUwYi0wYjQ4NzVmNzRjOGNCGwoOeC1tcy1ibG9i LXR5cGUSCUJsb2NrQmxvYkIaCgx4LW1zLXZlcnNpb24SCjIwMT ItMDItMTJCKgoJeC1tcy1kYXRlEh1XZWQsIDAyIE9jdCAyMDEz IDIyOjMzOjAwIEdNVEINCgZBY2NlcHQSAyovKkoJbXNfdXNfZG 14UglzM191c19uY2ESMAoVgRhyuvtziXcGkn6gjSU5_czh-5h0EhEBzvFe9AIWwLaexh3w0PEXsRjHlCUgABoUYzdTeDNad0J RWDdpal9BQlBXTEsiEEEzS1lPR3B3UFVJTjdDTWUSHQoVART67 Ic2c17D9y00cSwWJMjariyZEgQIABAAIAI&s=Aw4TLPIAMsJHmW8Y0NLqhDV542I

[Rubb]

Maybe a new style guide rod in an old(blunt) version slide?
If the owner purchased a new assembly this is the most likely cause.

Edit...just measured my spring assembly without the outer spring.
It's 2.21".
I can also see the pic now and it looks like the assembly is being compressed.
There's space between the front nut and assembly.
Are you absolutely sure the assembly is installed correct?
Are you sure the front nut isn't loose?

[skiflydive]

Tear the gun down. Make sure to position the gap in the spring toward the barrel when you put it back together. Sometimes that happens on my CM9 too. It freaked me out the first time it happened. It's no big deal. take it apart and put it back together. It'll be fine. Sometimes just racking the slide a few times will take care of it.

[Bawanna]

^^^this^^^

The spring has to be centered up just so which is deceiving because the barrel lug is slightly off set.

Mine do the same thing. Just have to reposition and you'll be good to go.

I hope.

[jocko]

I just purchased a PM9, opted for a used PM9 over a new CM9. Just picked it up and noticed that the spring guide protrudes from the slide. The photos of the gun i bought do not show this. Every photo I have seen of other PM9s shows that it is flush. No matter how many times I tear it down and reassemble it, I get the same result. This is the only Kahr I have owned, and all I am going off for comparison are photos. The person I bought it from tells me this is normal, but I don't believe it is.

I have searched prior to posting, sorry in advance if there is already a thread with the answer to this. Any help is greatly appreciated.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27848989@N03/10070479013/in/set-72157636152355973

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27848989@N03/10070355384/in/set-72157636152355973

new PM9??? If it is used. is the front of the slide kinda blunt nosed or beveled like all the cm models and new style PM models made today. this will tell us sumpin.

Sometimes that end cap (screw nut) sticks out and u just hav eto play with it for it should be flush. Mineon my PMJ9 sometimnes when reinstalling it will do that and why I don't know but I just fool with it and it will soon fit flush. 90% of the time I never have an issue, why it is,I don't know. It should be flush but we needd to know the above question to proceed.:Amflag2:

[Rubb]

pics are in his second post...it's a blunt.

[Bawanna]

I saw the pics originally but I don't see them now. Vaporized?

[jocko]

I can't pull his photos up. so thansk. What do I think now wellI think he has the wrong recoil spring in this gun. It is made for the beveled slides and there fore is about .020 longer. the old style should measure 2 3/16" long long tip to tip. He should measure the recoil housing, not the outter spring. It is is longer than that, he needs to jcall kahr and order the recoil spring assembly for the old style slide PM9. that is all kahr will nee dto know. The new recoil assembly should also have a 13 coil outter spring. he should also count the coils on his outter spring. It could possably be even15 coils.

being he bought the gun used, he is gonna have to pay for this ew assembly for certainly the gun did not leave kahr that way..

thanks Rubb

[Rubb]

I think they're too big...here ya go.

[jocko]

I think ur right. He has the wrong recoil assembly in thegun.

nice photo


005PM9 Recoil Assembly Old Style
Price: $23.10

Qty:
Add To Cart

[skiflydive]

Meh... That happens to my CM9 once in a while and it doesn't have the wrong recoil spring. I think this is getting over-complicated with all the recoil spring stuff. Rack the slide and dry fire it a couple times. If that doesn't work take the spring out and put it back in. Works every time.

[jocko]

but ur cm9 has the new styloe recoil assemblyt and they have been knwon to do that. If this is thge wrong recoil assemblyl, then it will not correct iself. We do know now that he has the old style PM9 blunt noxe version so it could easily be the wrong recoil assembly, Just sayin.

[smtsd]

Thanks for all the help. This is the recoil assembly in the pic if this helps anyone determine if it's a reassembly issue or an incorrect part. Unfortunately I don't have it nearby to try putting it back together differently. Any more thoughts?

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/04/yjapapub.jpg

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk 2

[jocko]

the spring looks like a 13 coil spring, u need to measure the ecoil assembly, as today all new style kahrs have ther 13 coil recoil spring exactly likeyour blunt nose version but the recoil rods are different lengths. that is what u must measur eto be sure of where ur at. If it is the length I toldyou, then nuttin is wrong with the asembly but just needs to be messed with to fall in place.

Measure the unit withut the outter spring..

[muggsy]

I would like someone to show me where in the owners manual it says the the tag end of the recoil spring must be positioned at 12:00 o'clock. I can't find that caution in mine.

[jocko]

it doesn't, I think someone once posted that kahr tech p[eople advised that is the best way for it to be placed. I have found that just openning up that end a tad will allow one to put the tag end anywhere they want and have no issues. Just sayin

I might be wrong but I think ur manual left out some important stuff, for kahr knew that you would not underswtand WTF they were saying,, they have a special manual for "dicks". I could be wrong on some of that though

[Bawanna]

Perhaps we could refer to them as Richards being a family forum and all, plus Monica calling 20 times a day wanting to join our forum..

No way, ain't gonna happen neither.

[wyntrout]

I noticed the galling rub marks where the flange is contacting the underside of the barrel. The flange end of of the guide rod is being installed up too high... too close to the barrel, or is jumping the ledge(?). It should not rub like that.

I just took my PM9 apart and the flange was sitting about 1/16" away from the ledge that prevents the flange from riding up. I include pictures as the slide came off the pistol and then with the flange nestled against that ledge. There are NO marks on my barrel above the ledge. There shouldn't be any!

Notice how the forward end of the guide rod is situated when the slide is off the frame... and on the frame, without repositioning the flange from its proper location.

Wynn:)

[jocko]

good poits wynb and nice descriptive photos to. surely with te info we have provided this fella outta be ableto now trouble shoot his PMJ9..

[wyntrout]

I measured the recoil guide rod assembly and the spring and show those in pictures.

Guide rod: 2.2245"
Spring(not new): ~2.2885"

I count 12 1/2 full coils on the old spring and 12 even coils on the new spring from Wolff which is rated at 20.5 lbs(Extra Power).

Wynn:)

[jocko]

with my calipers I get the same 2.22" I guess it is all how u count to but I count 13 coils on ur spring in the caliper photo, wolffs springs are 13 coil, as they make kahrs factory springs for the blunt nose version by ruler measrment sthe recoil rod assembly is 2 3/16, I think I earlier on stated the incorrect length.

I am assuming wynb ur referring in these photos to the blunt nose version kahr

[berettabone]

He ought to clean it too...................just sayin

[wyntrout]

Jocko, I count coils by whole lengths from the cut, closed end to the same place on the adjacent coil is one coil, getting 12 1/2 coils on the old one. I get 12 even coils on the new Wolff spring, an Extra-Power one with 12 full coils.

And I included pictures that should show that mine is the "old" "blunt-nosed" version, ser# VC25xx, Fired Cartridge case dated from 4/2006. I got it LNIB January 2010.

The OP or /and previous owner must have installed the rear of the recoil assembly... the flange... too high towards the barrel... past the ledge and proper resting place, which would make the front of the recoil guide rod protrude, as he pictures it.

Wynn:)

[Rubb]

The OP or /and previous owner must have installed the rear of the recoil assembly... the flange... too high towards the barrel... past the ledge and proper resting place, which would make the front of the recoil guide rod protrude, as he pictures it.

Wynn:)

Agreed.

[muggsy]

it doesn't, I think someone once posted that kahr tech p[eople advised that is the best way for it to be placed. I have found that just openning up that end a tad will allow one to put the tag end anywhere they want and have no issues. Just sayin

I might be wrong but I think ur manual left out some important stuff, for kahr knew that you would not underswtand WTF they were saying,, they have a special manual for "dicks". I could be wrong on some of that though

Thank you, Jocko, for the clarification. I always enjoy getting the facts straight from the horses ass. :) Just sayin.

[smtsd]

Thanks for everyones' help with this. Someone mentioned it being dirty and needing a cleaning... purchased it used and had just taken it out of the box i'm not happy about that either. as far as the marks on the underside of the barrel go, luckily those are just cosmetic marks (not gouges) probably from putting the spring in carelessly. I have tried reassembling it over and over again with all of your tips about aligning the spring properly, and still have the same result.

Wynn's measurements cracked this stupid case, and when I measured mine I came up with the guide rod being 2 3/8" long. Pretty disappointing. I have always been cautious about buying a used firearm, but given Kahr's rep, I figured I would give it a whirl with this one. I went back and examined the photos from when I bought it from GB and the photos definitely show a PM9 without the guide rod protruding from the slide. Guess my only option is to get a new one.

I know I could get this answer by searching, but since I'm short on time right now would you guys recommend a replacement from Kahr, or an aftermarket assembly?

[Bawanna]

I don't think there is an aftermarket assembly that I've ever heard of. You can get the springs from Wolfe, Kahr uses Wolfe springs in manufacture but they don't have the assembly.

So your convinced you have the newer style assembly?

If you've tried several times it might be so, funny it didn't show in the pictures when you bought it.

[Rubb]

That sux...it takes a real azzhat to advertise something and ship something else.
I would contact the seller and/or GB.
It looks like there's a lot of undue wear too.

I would order from Kahr.

http://www.kahr.com/Pistol-Parts/Kahr-005PM9-Recoil-Assembly-Old-Style.asp

[wyntrout]

I just checked at Wolff and they don't sell anything but the springs, so Kahr.com is your best bet, as Rubb said in the previous post. He listed the correct link.

Good luck.

Wynn:)

[jocko]

nota big deal,vbite the bulletand just order anewOLDSTYLE recoilassembly and ur good to go. No doubt GB which sells many kahrs just used a photo they had on stock and probalbynot ur gun that u bought.

Just be very sure u order for the OLD STYLESLIDE not the new style and u willbe good to go. Keep your parts off the recoil assembly u have now.

[jocko]

Jocko, I count coils by whole lengths from the cut, closed end to the same place on the adjacent coil is one coil, getting 12 1/2 coils on the old one. I get 12 even coils on the new Wolff spring, an Extra-Power one with 12 full coils.

And I included pictures that should show that mine is the "old" "blunt-nosed" version, ser# VC25xx, Fired Cartridge case dated from 4/2006. I got it LNIB January 2010.

The OP or /and previous owner must have installed the rear of the recoil assembly... the flange... too high towards the barrel... past the ledge and proper resting place, which would make the front of the recoil guide rod protrude, as he pictures it.

Wynn:)

arguing ur count, nor mine. kahr lists in their site 13 coils and atone time that new style had 15coils. both made by wolffs. Not sure how kahr counts either..

[jocko]

Thank you, Jocko, for the clarification. I always enjoy getting the facts straight from the horses ass. :) Just sayin.

am here to help a friend muggs:Amflag2:

[Rubb]

Where's the happy ending post???