Being surrounded by motor cyclist

[Allen]

Kind of wondered what I would have done if I was ever surrounded while driving by a bunch of cyclist like the family in New York. Really, opinions, what should the motorist have done considering one cyclist stopped in front of him, and when his side window was being broken out. Undoubtedly he wasn't armed, but if he was at what time should he have used it, or shouldn't he considering the large number of cyclists?
I always carry any time we're traveling on the road but never thought about being caught in that sort of situation.

[jocko]

good point.. whenthat assww!p[ebustedin that side window,I would have thought had the driver had a gun that the a$$wipe would have been bought and paid for. I think thevideo would have cleared him with zero charges even and definitely when we now know at least 1 to 3 of the bikers were under cover cops who witnessed the entire event..

[Cougar8000]

as a long time motorcyclist and motorcycle safety instructor those are not motorcyclist. Now that it is established...

they would have never gotten to the point of penetrating my window. I have watched that and many other videos on this group. some are dating back and show the same activity and at times even worse i.e. riding on the busy NY sidewalks.

What gets the blood going is according to the latest reports there were at least 1 confirmed undercover and few off duty COPS on their bikes in that group and they all just stood by and watched.

[muggsy]

Maybe it's just me, but when an undercover cop witnesses a civilian that he has sworn to protect being pulled from his car and beaten, I think that it's time to come out from under the covers. I've been surrounded by bikers most of my life and never had a problem, but then again I'm kinda lovable in a warped sorta way.

[jeepster09]

For me, first step would of been 911 and I would of told them police are on their way. If they kept attacking, someone would of got shot.

[CJB]

1. Hollywood Stuntz is a latino and hispanic black group that has a history of targeting motorists, especially Asians, with road intimidation maneuvers. They pride themselves in it.
2. The entire group was not HS, but other riders as well. The cops were "off duty" but there as riders gathering intelligence. They were plants.
3. Forget what you hear about the SUV driver weaving through the pack trying to bully the pack. There are reports that the initial rider hit was trying to "slow down" the SUV's driver, so the pack could pass. Total fookin' nonsense, as the pack could have passed him at any time on their rice rockets. That SUV would have been a dot in their mirrors in 3-4 seconds.

The braking by the rider that intially got hit was an intimidation move. He screwed up and got hit. Folks.... I ride. I ride a lot. There is no way in hell I'm gonna get in front of any cage and brake hard - in an attempt to slow down the cage. Its suicidal. The rider who did that got his bike and leg broken.

The driver stopped. His front tire was cut, but not flattened immediately. His SUV was pelted and there was an angry mob around him. He bolted. Folks got hurt from that.

The SUV's tire finally was un-drivable at highway speed and the driver of the SUV pulled off at an exit, and got his ass beat.

I cannot see.... but then again this is New York.... any charges against the driver of the SUV.

Civil damages.... maybe.

[Longitude Zero]

Maybe it's just me, but when an undercover cop witnesses a civilian that he has sworn to protect being pulled from his car and beaten, I think that it's time to come out from under the covers. I've been surrounded by bikers most of my life and never had a problem, but then again I'm kinda lovable in a warped sorta way.

Not always. It depends upon the assignment. When investigating the NY mob the UC's were allowed to witness and even participate in everything up to but NOT INCLUDING murder.

IMHO the SUV driver is owed damages by the crotch rocket riders. He owes them NOTHING!

[chrish]

Not always. It depends upon the assignment. When investigating the NY mob the UC's were allowed to witness and even participate in everything up to but NOT INCLUDING murder.

IMHO the SUV driver is owed damages by the crotch rocket riders. He owes them NOTHING!

If that's true, therein lies a massive problem with law enforcement today.

If you aren't going to save the life of someone in that situation or prevent them from getting beaten, when you know good and damn well they were not at fault, the system has failed and that law enforcement officer is a thug as well and should be fired.

The needs of the many to gain information about a criminal element do not outweigh the immediate need of the one to be saved from death or bodily harm.

Sorry, this story make me angry. Both the initial situation and the fact that law enforcement was present (if that's true).

[garyb]

Kind of wondered what I would have done if I was ever surrounded while driving by a bunch of cyclist like the family in New York. Really, opinions, what should the motorist have done considering one cyclist stopped in front of him, and when his side window was being broken out. Undoubtedly he wasn't armed, but if he was at what time should he have used it, or shouldn't he considering the large number of cyclists?
I always carry any time we're traveling on the road but never thought about being caught in that sort of situation.

I kind of wondered that very same thing Allen. NY gun laws are tough. NYC gun laws are tougher yet. My initial reaction was that once he was being attacked with a helmet as a weapon, it would be within his rights to protect himself and his wife. However, his life would be a mess for doing so, especially if this was in the city. Instead, he got beat up and no one was killed, from what I understand. Just shows that LE did not make it there in time...or perhaps they were there the whole time...Hmmmm.

[CJB]

Imagine if no video existed....

[Bawanna]

My take is the main perps face was right in the drivers window. Wife and child in the car.

I need to carry more ammo.

He did the right thing by driving on as soon as the attack on his vehicle began.

Once he was forced to stop with wife and child in the car it would have been OK Corral time.

And I need to carry more ammo.

And while I used to ride them, I hate rice rockets.

And I need to carry more ammo.

[jocko]

BINGO CJB hit the nail on the head. I do think it was an undercover cops duty to step in when this was goin down and from what I read he said he didn't want to blow his cover, so he was onduty in some sense of the word and IMOit was then his duty to step in and end it.

Maybe the Hollywood Stunz guys will learn sumpin from this to. Who knows, they have one paralized in the hospitaldue to their stupidty. If thedriver has any faults it was he was just at the wrong place at the right time. I amtold there is alot more on the video that is not bein release to the public YET. Someone told me that a few of the bimes involved even were stolen bikes. I wold be scare sh!tless evenwith a gun in the car, more thanlikely they had some guns to. Ican just picture dead drivger, dead wife, dead child.

\thats when a G1`9 with 33 round mag,l comes in real handy. Just sayin

[bob98366]

Bawanna: "I need to carry more ammo."

+1

Also, don't travel through non-reciprocity states. We'll spend our vacation money in states that respect the 2nd Amendment and citizen self-defense.

[Tinman507]

Seems to me the undercover LEO's cover is blown regardless. I think an innocent family's safety trumps all other considerations. Poor decision by the cops.

Yeah, B you need to carry more ammo.

[CJB]

Yah but the NYPD is another issue.... between the NYPD and the undercovers.

Officially, the cops were off duty. Un-officially, they were UC. NYPD policy - blow your cover, you're fired. And they do it, and have done it. Most notably, they fired one of their own for coming to the rescue of his fellow officers during what turned into a gunbattle.... the UC took the officer's side, got fired, stripped of police creds as well.

Tough world out there in NYC for a UC officer.

Back to bikers. At today's ABATE meeting, a mixed bag. High ups at the Chapter think they biker's ought to have killed the guy for running down one of their own. Ride like a-holes, intimidate along racial lines, use physical intimidation that goes sour, escalate to an attempted battery and vandalism, escalate to flee at any cost, excalate to chase, further vandalism and a higher form of battery...

BTW, the first rider, who broke his leg may have committed an assault. Assault is an attack that does not require physical contact. Battery is the physical contact. If any of the crimes are felonious by the biker, and the rider in a comatose state dies, those charged with felonious crimes will also be charged with homicide - because someone died during the commission of their crime (even though they had no control over it).

Thats the facts jack.

[jocko]

Seems to me the undercover LEO's cover is blown regardless. I think an innocent family's safety trumps all other considerations. Poor decision by the cops.

Yeah, B you need to carry more ammo.

on that, I donm't buy the UC cops blowing their cover and loosing their job, There is always more to that story, In this case the video speaks for itself kand there is alot more video that isnot seen by us YET. Is a cop off duty if he is an UC cop? I think not. U blow ur cover u go back to a street job or u get transferred or u do different UC work. I am sur ethe UC cops were not wearing suit and tie's so they had to blend in like the rest, color, beard, cloths, language, bike etc.

I wasin a Panera bread shop this morning in my Harley cloths and bike parked outside and and a brown skinned person came up to me and ask me what I thought about the bikers. I think he thought I would take the bikers position. I DIDN'T. he looked surprised but said nothing. He was a nice brown skinned guy, but because I had biker shirts on and boots etc, I guess he thought we are all alike. I persoally hate crotch rockets. I remember a state cop friend of mine telling me that when he sees a crotch rocket on the highwy, he knows it has either been speeding like hell or that it is going to.

The question that is being asked and investigated is did the UC cops just sit back and let this beating escalate and if so, do u think this will float with the public who u are sworn to serve and protect. Again I amsure this story has not fullly been explained, so I error on the side of anythinbg, but I dod read where the one UC cop said he did nutting for fear of blowing his cover. In this case he should have shut his mouth, for that statement didn't make him a hero andI don't have any doubt those bikers all involved there could not put two and two together and figure out who was a cop and who was not, for again maybe at first no one even knew any UC cops were in thqat group, so all is well for what we don't know won't hurt but once they (UC let it out) then no doubt those bikers are putting names and faces togheter and I bet they know without a doubt who the UC cop or cops was. these are not ignorant bkers. not their first rodeo, corse for one I think it is his last rodeo.:Amflag2:

[muggsy]

Yah but the NYPD is another issue.... between the NYPD and the undercovers.

Officially, the cops were off duty. Un-officially, they were UC. NYPD policy - blow your cover, you're fired. And they do it, and have done it. Most notably, they fired one of their own for coming to the rescue of his fellow officers during what turned into a gunbattle.... the UC took the officer's side, got fired, stripped of police creds as well.

Tough world out there in NYC for a UC officer.

Back to bikers. At today's ABATE meeting, a mixed bag. High ups at the Chapter think they biker's ought to have killed the guy for running down one of their own. Ride like a-holes, intimidate along racial lines, use physical intimidation that goes sour, escalate to an attempted battery and vandalism, escalate to flee at any cost, excalate to chase, further vandalism and a higher form of battery...

BTW, the first rider, who broke his leg may have committed an assault. Assault is an attack that does not require physical contact. Battery is the physical contact. If any of the crimes are felonious by the biker, and the rider in a comatose state dies, those charged with felonious crimes will also be charged with homicide - because someone died during the commission of their crime (even though they had no control over it).

Thats the facts jack.

In my book cops are never off duty. Yer a freaking cop 24/7 or your not a cop. I don't give a damn what the freakin' book says. In my opinion that's what separates the good cops from the rest of the cops. I damn well know that I'd come to the aid of a cop if I saw one in trouble and I no longer get paid for wearing a uniform.

[Longitude Zero]

The needs of the many to gain information about a criminal element do not outweigh the immediate need of the one to be saved from death or bodily harm.

I said that death was the only exception for mob/undercover investigations. If you have a problem with this then you have ZERO knowledge and understanding of the threat posed by organized criminal elements.

Whether you like it or not matters nothing. It is the way of the world.

[Longitude Zero]

I damn well know that I'd come to the aid of a cop if I saw one in trouble and I no longer get paid for wearing a uniform.

I too would jump to aid an officer.

[chrish]

I said that death was the only exception for mob/undercover investigations. If you have a problem with this then you have ZERO knowledge and understanding of the threat posed by organized criminal elements.

Whether you like it or not matters nothing. It is the way of the world.

Well, I said death OR bodily harm. So if an innocent person, or even a less than desirable person is about to have their person violated by another person, and a LEO, undercover or not, stands by and lets it happen, then they are just as responsible as the person committing the crime. What about rape? What about hurting a child? What about beating someone w/in an inch of their life?

And I know you weren't necessarily referring to this particular case w/ your comment. But this wasn't a case of some members of organized crime taking action against other members of organized crime. This was a gang of thugs, organized or not, taking action against an innocent citizen.

And, what I think does matter. I pay taxes therefore I expect law enforcement to do their job and do it honestly and ethically. If they can't, they should be fired. Claim it's necessary all you want because of the perceived threat that exists from organized crime, but that doesn't make it so.

We seem to agree a lot on this forum, you and I, but seems we may come up on opposite side of this debate. No harm no foul. ;)

[muggsy]

Been a boy scout all my life. Too old to change now. When I was born most things were black and white, including the TV and police cars. Now I'm living in a world I don't fully understand and I feel sorry for the kids who have to grow up in it.

[CJB]

Just watched a few of the very lengthy uncut videos on you tube from the hemet cam.

Maybe 50-60 vehicles in the pack. At on point, more than half in the video had no license plate, were dirt bikes, four wheel ATV's, other ATV's, sport bikes with no tag.

The only time the group stopped was when cross traffic was already flowing through the intersection. Otherwise, they blew through every red light, every stop sign - as if they owned the pavement.

They did wheelies on the road - galore.

They crossed into oncoming traffic - and actually shared pavement BETWEEN ONCOMING TRAFFIC at times. Not stopped traffic either, but cars doing 30-40 mph in the opposite direction. Balls. They cannot die, they own the road. Or so it seemed, in their mind. Do all this on one wheel, and blowing thru intersections.

They often went around right hand turning vehicles on the right - cutting them off at intersections. Left hand turning vehicles were passed on the left, cutting them off. That was not stopped vehicles, but vehicles in mid-turn. Just....up on the sidewalk, and pass 'em on the right. They'll stop. After all, the bikers own the road.

The more I watched, the more its evident that the bikers thought they were just God damn'd invincible. Untouchable. The road was theirs.

In the vid of the biker "slowing down" the Range Rover - there was no need to slow him down. None. Instead, either, the bikes brake lights didn't work, OR, it was a downshift deceleration. No brake light came on. Very clearly seen.... nothing happens at the light on the back of the cycle. He got hit. He got his leg busted.

Also not seen in the media, after the leg bust, SUV stop, pelting, SUV running over bikers, there is a point where they catch him, open his door trying to get him out of the SUV, but... they fail and he floors it again. This may be where the tire incident happens. Then they finally get him as the SUV is blocked by other traffic.

Sorry. I ride. I rode 475 miles give or take, just this weekend. I pay a lobbiest in Florida to deal with bs laws in state legislature. These biking idiots are just that. They're idiots.

Was said on TV - the biker with the busted back didn't deserve what he got since he didn't do anything all that bad. Sorry, self defense is not pay backs. Its action taken - because you don't know whats gonna come next. At that point.... all bets off, you fight to win, with what you have.

I'm siding still, with the SUV driver, especially after seeing the uncut vids on Youtube.

[sas PM9]

Just watched a few of the very lengthy uncut videos on you tube from the hemet cam.

Maybe 50-60 vehicles in the pack. At on point, more than half in the video had no license plate, were dirt bikes, four wheel ATV's, other ATV's, sport bikes with no tag.

The only time the group stopped was when cross traffic was already flowing through the intersection. Otherwise, they blew through every red light, every stop sign - as if they owned the pavement.

They did wheelies on the road - galore.

They crossed into oncoming traffic - and actually shared pavement BETWEEN ONCOMING TRAFFIC at times. Not stopped traffic either, but cars doing 30-40 mph in the opposite direction. Balls. They cannot die, they own the road. Or so it seemed, in their mind. Do all this on one wheel, and blowing thru intersections.

They often went around right hand turning vehicles on the right - cutting them off at intersections. Left hand turning vehicles were passed on the left, cutting them off. That was not stopped vehicles, but vehicles in mid-turn. Just....up on the sidewalk, and pass 'em on the right. They'll stop. After all, the bikers own the road.

The more I watched, the more its evident that the bikers thought they were just God damn'd invincible. Untouchable. The road was theirs.

In the vid of the biker "slowing down" the Range Rover - there was no need to slow him down. None. Instead, either, the bikes brake lights didn't work, OR, it was a downshift deceleration. No brake light came on. Very clearly seen.... nothing happens at the light on the back of the cycle. He got hit. He got his leg busted.

Also not seen in the media, after the leg bust, SUV stop, pelting, SUV running over bikers, there is a point where they catch him, open his door trying to get him out of the SUV, but... they fail and he floors it again. This may be where the tire incident happens. Then they finally get him as the SUV is blocked by other traffic.

Sorry. I ride. I rode 475 miles give or take, just this weekend. I pay a lobbiest in Florida to deal with bs laws in state legislature. These biking idiots are just that. They're idiots.

Was said on TV - the biker with the busted back didn't deserve what he got since he didn't do anything all that bad. Sorry, self defense is not pay backs. Its action taken - because you don't know whats gonna come next. At that point.... all bets off, you fight to win, with what you have.

I'm siding still, with the SUV driver, especially after seeing the uncut vids on Youtube.

CJB:

Well said!

Agree.

-steve

[Tilos]

This never happens in states that allow gun ownership and ccw.
just sayin'

[knkali]

latest:
http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/da-motorcyclist-had-key-role-in-nyc-suv-brawl

As Bawanna said, "need more ammo". However, if he would have followed Bawanna's 'advise and shot that first guy, who came into the car to grab him, in the face, I think that would have got everyone's attention. Sad that the mob mentality took over with these guys and no one could quell it in time.

[Bawanna]

I could have and I would have enjoyed it. When we let evil and gang type activity prevail we all lose. Group mentality is exactly what happened here.

Any one or two of them alone would have ran for their lives at the first sign of any threat.

Moral of the story is I need to carry more ammo, lots more.

[BEARDOG]

I could have and I would have enjoyed it. When we let evil and gang type activity prevail we all lose. Group mentality is exactly what happened here.

Any one or two of them alone would have ran for their lives at the first sign of any threat.

Moral of the story is I need to carry more ammo, lots more.


Yeap Col. B...Certainly makes the case to me to keep a spare 32 rd mag for my G26 in the center console....

Heard today...The guy that smashed in the window had no licence, was a career criminal, with 20+ prior arrests, and recently faced a sentence of 25 yrs for drugs+guns ...but a judge gave him 20 days community service instead!:eek:

[knkali]

sounds like a guy that needs some face ventilation

[Bawanna]

Yeap Col. B...Certainly makes the case to me to keep a spare 32 rd mag for my G26 in the center console....

Heard today...The guy that smashed in the window had no licence, was a career criminal, with 20+ prior arrests, and recently faced a sentence of 25 yrs for drugs+guns ...but a judge gave him 20 days community service instead!:eek:

25 years in prison would have been a cake walk considering what I would have given him.
Face ventilation, kind of gives me a chubby.

[getsome]

+1 Mo A Mo

[BEARDOG]

25 years in prison would have been a cake walk considering what I would have given him.
Face ventilation, kind of gives me a chubby.

I'm a lifelong motorcyclist.... and I think these biker idiots deserve everything they got in injuries , or will get from the law, and they should be very grateful they were in commie NY. Because if the driver would of had a gun, IMO he had every right to use it to defend himself and family.

[Longitude Zero]

I'm a lifelong motorcyclist.... and I think these biker idiots deserve everything they got in injuries , or will get from the law, and they should be very grateful they were in commie NY. Because if the driver would of had a gun, IMO he had every right to use it to defend himself and family.

Exactly!!!

[TheTman]

Agreed, these were not bikers, they were punks on bikes and ATV's. They keep up this and some of the idiots are going to get themselves killed. The idiot that tried to stop the SUV was lucky to only have a broken leg.
I wonder what would have happened if the guy that got beat up had shot a few of them instead? They were in NYC right? The guy would probably be facing all kinds of charges.

[getsome]

There's a good reason Paramedics call Ricer Riders "Organ Doners"....This is another in a long list of reasons for me not to venture up the highway any further towards New York than North Carolina....

[rjt123]

sounds like a guy that needs some face ventilation


Which one? The dipsh!t judge or the scumbag/punk/criminal? Hmmm, I say both. Yeah. Definitely both.

Can we sue a judge for malpractice?

[jocko]

I'm a lifelong motorcyclist.... and I think these biker idiots deserve everything they got in injuries , or will get from the law, and they should be very grateful they were in commie NY. Because if the driver would of had a gun, IMO he had every right to use it to defend himself and family.

10-4. I seen one ofd them tonight on tv that was arrested. He was giving everyone the finger. Nice guy. a 9mm would serve him well. Now that we further see that his wifes drivers dide window waqs also smashed to hell also, and she suffered some minor cuts etc. They should be darn lucky he had no gun. Bloomberg would have had a real issue prosecuting this fella, course he would have tried I am sure.:Amflag2:

[ltxi]

Been a boy scout all my life. Too old to change now. When I was born most things were black and white, including the TV and police cars. Now I'm living in a world I don't fully understand and I feel sorry for the kids who have to grow up in it.

Uh,oh...not good, but I sure understand what you're sayin'. That be where I come from as well 'cept there was no TV, just radio at my outset.

I work hard at trying to stay ahead of it. Helps that wife and most all friends are 15 to 35 years younger than me. But the older of these are getting there also.

Keep the faith, bro'.

[mluikey]

I too would jump to aid an officer.

Likewise and I haven't worn the uniform for over 10 years, but I still have serve and protect attitude. If I see a cop in need of assistance I will jump in.

[pappy42]

When it comes to defending my family; "I'd rather have 12 judging than 6 carrying"