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downtownv
10-25-2013, 02:17 PM
Seattle businesses strive to disarm legal gun owners
By Seattle Times (WA) October 25, 2013 12:25 pm

Mark Stern, the co-owner of the Big Picture theater in Belltown, is already anticipating hate mail and angry calls from gun owners. He wants them to know he's not against guns. But if they're thinking of coming to his movie theater, he'd rather they don't bring their guns along.

"We think, as private business owners, we can say that we prefer customers to leave their guns at home," Stern said.

On Thursday, The Big Picture became the 100th Seattle business to join a gun-free-zone effort sponsored jointly by the city and Washington CeaseFire. At a news conference to announce the milestone, Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn said that since the program started in August, almost one business a day has signed up.

Cafe Racer, where a mentally ill customer shot and killed four people in May 2012, was one of the first businesses to join.

Supporters acknowledge that businesses posting a gun-free zone sticker won't stop a determined killer, but they hope that removing guns from local bars and stores could help ensure that "an argument doesn't turn into a funeral," said Ralph Fascitelli, board president of Washington CeaseFire.

Fascitelli noted that state law prohibits municipalities from adopting their own gun laws. But businesses do have the right to set conditions for entry, such as requiring shirts and shoes.

And given the difficulty in passing more restrictive gun laws at the state level, he said, this is one strategy to continue to raise awareness and continue to put pressure on elected leaders.

"Everybody needs to be engaged in this battle. It's the small steps that get us to victory."

Gun-rights advocates are skeptical that the effort will produce any results.

"I haven't seen any indication that a private business saying it's off-limits to firearms has prevented a single crime," said Dave Workman, senior editor of The Gun Mag, who has written about the right to bear arms for 20 years.

Workman pointed to reports speculating that the Aurora, Colo., movie- theater shooter chose that location out of several other movie theaters in the area because it did not allow guns.

In the wake of the Aurora shooting and the Sandy Hook Elementary shooting in December, the National Rifle Association said the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun was a good guy with a gun.

At the news conference, McGinn rejected that reasoning. "Safety is not having a society awash in guns," he said. The mayor called gun violence a public-health issue and said that just as attitudes toward drunken driving have evolved to make it unacceptable, so, too, must the norms surrounding firearm sales and use.

He noted that a report on gun violence released earlier this year by Public Health-Seattle & King County found t hat from 2007 to 2011, the average annual cost of firearm deaths and hospitalizations in the county was $177 million.

McGinn has been eager in an election year to showcase his support for stricter gun regulations. He announced a gun buyback in January but didn't notify Washington CeaseFire, which questioned whether the effort reduced gun violence.

Fascitelli said that since then, his group and the mayor have worked together on ways to continue to pressure elected leaders to enact tougher gun laws and keep the issue before the public.

A signature drive is currently under way to require universal background checks for gun sales in the state. Supporters of Initiative 594 turned in 250,000 signatures earlier this month but need to gather an additional 75,000 by the Jan. 3 deadline to assure validation.

Second Amendment activists also are collecting signatures for an initiative that would prevent the state from adopting a stricter background-check law than the national standard.

Material from The Seattle Times archives was included in this report.

deadeye
10-25-2013, 05:56 PM
Think I'll move to Seattle where I'll be safe. Bad guys wouldn't dare bring their gun into a gun free zone. It would be against the law.

yqtszhj
10-25-2013, 06:28 PM
My parents stayed in Seattle overnight one night to catch a cruise ship the next day. They said they had never seen so many homeless teen drug addicts in one place.

xsailer
10-25-2013, 06:39 PM
They made and are making their bed to lay in. Apparently they like and are going the way of their Southern Calif. neighbor. I'd wish them luck if I was a mind to......I'm not. In the late 60's when I lived there it was a neat place to live, except for the Communist Newspaper peddler that met us at our work entrance weekly.

Incidentally, went to my local boxing mailing store today and thanked them for posting CC is welcomed and allowed. Day before yesterday I notified my local coffee bean roaster and gift store that I've been buying from for decades that I would not be in again since they don't allow CC in their store. Their right to do that, might right to not buy from them.

Bawanna
10-25-2013, 08:17 PM
Actually we have so many escaped Californians around here that it's no surprise that things are the way they are here.

I had to go to the airport today to pick up my wife coming back from helping my sister move to Vegas. I always feel lucky to get out alive. A terribly stressful trip for me.

Too many people, too much traffic, too many foreigners. Got home alive with a splitting headache and wife wanted to go to Lynnwood to visit my sick beagle at the doggie hospital, she went by herself. She apparently handles it much better than I.

xsailer
10-25-2013, 08:37 PM
Yes I know bawanna. They seem to have settled in Washington, Colorado, and Dallas and trying to change these places to be just like the one they screwed up and moved from-Calif. Unfortunately these new locations they've changed to the BAD also, the most noticeable is Colorado with it's gun laws as we've discussed on the forum.

Kinda like some people that leave their countries to settle in others and then screw them up to be just like the one they moved from.

JohnR
10-25-2013, 08:50 PM
I guess we know where the next mass shooting is gonna be.

muggsy
10-25-2013, 08:54 PM
The simple solution to the problem is to stop patronizing the business. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone who owns a gun and believes in the second amendment would want to go to a movie and in doing so, support the liberal Hollywood left.

Bawanna
10-25-2013, 09:12 PM
Sometimes ya just have to go watch a movie, or so my wife tells me.

There's more to life than just porn muggsy. Not much more but a little or so Jocko said.

deadeye
10-25-2013, 09:40 PM
Haven't seen a movie worth watching for a long time anyway. Can't stand Starbucks awful coffee. Sorry. No guns, no money.

warbird1
10-25-2013, 10:57 PM
I buy or rent DVD's and watch at home in comfort and safety. If a company provides well armed and staffed security then I will consider honoring such a request. Otherwise, the lives of myself and my family are more important than their wishes. If you are doing proper concealed carry then what is the problem. Who would know? Are they using metal detectors? At any rate I avoid any liberal/socialist state like the plague. I am proud to be from the old confederacy.

eireguy
10-25-2013, 11:12 PM
I dont think a sticker on a door will stop anyone from carrying....legal or illegal. Having said that I'm sure there's more than one movie theater there

TheTman
10-26-2013, 11:02 AM
What's the penalty for carrying in a gun-free business there? Here all they can do is ask you to leave. If your gun is properly concealed, no one will know anyway.
If you don't leave, they can call the police, and you can be slapped with a misdemeanor.

b4uqzme
10-26-2013, 11:19 AM
It is our duty as 2A advocates NOT to patronize any businesses that restrict firearms. They can do whatever they want. Just don't expect to see me anymore. I honestly wouldn't feel safe there anyways. It's also our duty to avoid confrontation and environments that encourage violence. Gun free zones are a free pass for violent criminals. I'll stay away.

TheTman
10-27-2013, 10:35 AM
I normally avoid places with the no guns signs, but occasionally I have to do business in a no gun establishment. I just go in take care of business and leave. Haven't been outed yet.

Longitude Zero
10-27-2013, 02:58 PM
Business owners have the right to ban pretty much whomever they please. I have the right not to do business with them. Freedom of choice. if we have it SO DO THEY.

VN Vet
10-27-2013, 04:12 PM
I wonder how many busnesses are letting their insurance companys speak for them?

I bet a majority of the business owners would love to have gun owners inside their businesses if it were not for insurance companies and lawyers.

xsailer
10-27-2013, 09:16 PM
I'm as tired of the insurance companies (lawyers) making rules for us to live by as I am our Gov. doing the same thing.

Longitude Zero
10-28-2013, 02:21 PM
I wonder how many busnesses are letting their insurance companys speak for them?

I bet a majority of the business owners would love to have gun owners inside their businesses if it were not for insurance companies and lawyers.

You are probably correct.

xsailer
10-28-2013, 02:35 PM
I would like to know for sure but given the talk of guessing I would bet you 95% if not more listen to insurance company requirements. It would be nice if I'm wrong but........

garyb
10-28-2013, 02:47 PM
It can work not unless they screen at the door like they do in court houses and airports. I have no problem leaving my gun locked up in my car as long as I know all individuals are being properly screened like they do in an airport. We all live with that and don't ban airports ( or at least most don't). I fully believe in my freedom and gun rights, but would feel safe if businesses screen. They do this in Israel as a matter of security. It is going that way in the USA too...like it or not...it is just a matter of time. We see it in airports, courthouses, starting in schools, starting at major events like ball games, Disney, etc... It will be such that we will have the choice to stay home with our guns, or leave the gun home or in the car to fly, go in courthouses , etc... Proper and complete screening and security is necessary for this to work in businesses. Like it or not.

Bawanna
10-28-2013, 02:51 PM
Oh they have to listen to the insurance company which is a group of lawyers. Everyone needs insurance, they got you by the short hairs.
You just don't need to make a big deal out of it.

Like everywhere else all they can do is ask you to leave.

Seattle isn't a good place to be anyhow, no loss to me whatsover.

Had to go to the airport to pick up my wife Friday, as usual took 5 years off my life (which I don't have to spare) just getting there.

No reason to go there in the forseeable future.

Bawanna
10-28-2013, 02:54 PM
You can't take a gun in Disney World. I did not know that........

Well I'm all for staying home with my guns. Anything you guys can do to help me convince the wife that this is a good sound plan would be most appreciated.

If I could work from home, I'd never leave the house.

Was gonna go to the range yesterday but didn't feel too hot and you guess it, didn't want to leave the house.

Think maybe I'm becoming a recluse like the spider?

garyb
10-28-2013, 03:04 PM
Hope you get feeling better Bawanna. I'll say an extra prayer just for you.

garyb
10-28-2013, 03:10 PM
The last time we took the grand kids to Disney they were doing bag and purse checks. They were not putting folks thru metal detectors or frisking them. I suspect that as more terrorists strike soft places, security measures will get stricter and more effective...as evidenced in our airports. It would currently be easy to take a gun into Disney . But this will change in a generation or two... Unfortunately for our society and our customary freedoms as we know them today. Now I will predict your weather forecast...

Bawanna
10-28-2013, 03:29 PM
Thanks garyb, I'm semi vertical in a sitting sort of way and at my post. Surrounded by violets isn't an ideal environment but we do the best we can.

Better than yesterday but still a little out of whack. Like my balance or equilibrium is messed up.

Maybe it's my new normal.

garyb
10-28-2013, 03:38 PM
Sounds like a good cleansing enema and a colonoscopy might help...haha. Seriously, sinuses or inner ear are associated with vertigo. Anyway hope you recover quickly. Prayers.

Bawanna
10-28-2013, 03:49 PM
The last time we took the grand kids to Disney they were doing bag and purse checks. They were not putting folks thru metal detectors or frisking them. I suspect that as more terrorists strike soft places, security measures will get stricter and more effective...as evidenced in our airports. It would currently be easy to take a gun into Disney . But this will change in a generation or two... Unfortunately for our society and our customary freedoms as we know them today. Now I will predict your weather forecast...

They were even doing bag checks at the rodeo we went to in Reno this summer. Couldn't bring in a camera, had to take it back to the car.

Still made it thru with a 638 in the wifes purse, a PM45 on my ankle and a 1911 on my hip. I feel like such a criminal sometimes but more comfortable than being nekkid.
Funny thing I didn't know the wife had her revolver in there. When we got back to the motel I looked through the purse and I could find it.
I cried BS on her and she pulled it out in about a second and a half. I told her that works fine, just keep doing that.

shfoster
10-28-2013, 06:18 PM
As a Washingtonian, here we go again. The only way we are going to stop this nonsense is to vote. Vote down any anti gun bills, vote out the bast**ds who support them, and vote with your dollar.
Folks in Washington state need to stop whineing and get out and vote. Beware what is going to be on the next ballot, you will have to get a background check to give your guns to your kids, and ALL private firearms transactions will require checks...
Stand up!!
Whidbey Island, thankfully 70 miles from Seattle

Bawanna
10-28-2013, 06:26 PM
For the most part your exactly right, but then we have like the Mayor of Seattle a rabid anti gunner that neither your nor I can vote in or out. And most of the morons, they have to be morons don't they to live in the high density area of Seattle are on his side. Warm and fuzzy.

I've been emailing my state rep, I'm drawing a blank on his name now but he seems to be on our side, of course all our federal reps dykes everyone of them are useless as mammary glands on a boar hog.

As we've said before, most of the common sense is on Alfonses side of the mountain low density. But they can't win with all the California transplants living between Olympia and Seattle.

Whidbeys nice, spent a lot of time over there. Only thing I couldn't handle is scheduling my life around a ferry schedule. Course I like to stay home mostly so wouldn't bother me none.