Bad reviews outweigh good?

[wsgrady]

Hi guys and gals, I have not read every post here but it seems there are a little more posts expressing more negatives on Kahr than I would like to hear being a prospective buyer, what gives? I'm long time shooter ( and getting a little long in the tooth also) and picked up an cw45 and thought someone designed this gun just for my hand. After researching short barrel ballistics decided I could live with'em and started the online review of this pistol here and on the net and now wondering if I'm having second thoughts on the brand? I know some say more people will post negatives than positives when they are unhappy but please tell me Kahr has more satisfied buyer's than not. Thanks for your time and looking forward to hearing that new Kahrs are reliable and mostly trouble free. (Yes I did read the break in procedure on this forum and still read about many small problems.)

Hopefully a future Kahr owner...ws grady

[SGT5711]

Welcome to the forum. There are definitely many more satisfied Kahr owners than not. The more you research any firearm, the more complaints you will find. I have 2 Kahr pistols, and I plan to buy some more in the future. Like any other firearm, not all Kahr pistols are always perfect, but if not, Kahr will most assuredly make it perfect. If you purchase a Kahr, I doubt you will regret it.

[CJB]

A few things at play - first is that the internet has become a giant ***** zone. Generally it goes like this - I'm not happy, so I'm going online to share my grief with the world. Its possible to filter this sort of thing to a large degree, by examining the mode of story telling. Generally there are a few ways the stories get told. One is the newbie who has no clue, and may or may not be contributing to the issue at hand due to their preconceived ideas and lack of experience. Another is the more seasoned shooter who is having a genuine issue and is seeking a rememdy. A subset of that is the hard head who is seasoned, and just refuses to contact the factory or send his pistol for correction. And finally there is the person who is always right. They know best. Kahr has either mis-designed or mis-manufactured their pistol and they are going to teach Kahr a thing or two by way of internet bitching.

Having said all that......... I've got some experience. I bought my first Kahr almost on a whim. I went to a not local gun store, but in my state, on a whim to see if they had a PM9, they did, but the PM45 was small enough to fit my pocket, so I walked out with one loaded in my pocket.

It had a problem that showed up within the first 300 rounds, whereby the frame rails in the front were not right. Kahr made it right at no cost to me, and the pistol is still working as it should. Since then I bought another PM45 and a PM9 - both USED, both from forum members in my state. I had confidence in the way a Kahr pistol works so I felt ok buying and not being able to shoot them. I suppose it could be... that those shooters were having issues, but this shooter has had zero issues with either used pistol, even with the dread 7 round PM9 magazine. The little PM9 runs like an undocumented worker across the line of residentially native demarcation. Really, both PM45's do as well. Interesting note - the repaired PM45 needed break in again. Even though it had a frame rail issue, it never failed to fire after the first couple of boxes, and I discovered the problem during cleaning. After repair...wooops....brand new recoil spring assembly, and I had to run a few boxes through it again to limber up that spring. But, I knew this. The newbie or know it all would have bitched that the pistol just came back and it "still shoots like crap".

On the third hand.... I'm also convinced that there are some very small minority of shooters who can not shoot Kahr pistols for whatever reason. Call it shooting style, call it ergonomics, call it physique... whatever.... I'm convinced that some folks and Kahrs do not mix. I think this is true of every small pistol out there on the market... since very small pistols lack the design "margins of error" (those being heavy parts and longer travel on slides to name a few).

Welcome to the forum ol' chap!

[Gringo Pistolero]

Welcome to the forum. I think CJB pretty well covered it - for all those reasons it seems you will see more bad reviews than positive reviews of almost any firearm on the forums.

I have two Kahr pistols - a CW9 and a CW45 - and both have been completely trouble free. I've had the CW9 for about a year, probably 1500 rounds through it. Never a problem even in the first few hundred rounds. The CW45 is only a few months old, and I've put a little over 600 rounds through it already. Again, no problems at all. It is a very pleasant shooting .45, and has pretty much replaced the CW9 as my daily carry. Still love the 9 and have no intentions of getting rid of it - nice to have options, especially with the uncertainties with ammo availability.

As soon as they become generally available, I plan on picking up a CW380 for those times that pocket carry is the only choice. I have a Ruger LCP now that fills that role pretty well, but I really like the Kahr trigger...

So yes... count me as another positive review as you make your choice!

Chuck

[b4uqzme]

Your experiences will matter most. I'm confident that you will be satisfied. If you do encounter some hiccups, you'll get a lot of support here.

[xsailer]

And another thing.....Has to be thousands of Kahrs sold. Complaints on the forum are to many but few by comparison.
I've got two Kahr's and hope to get a 45 someday maybe even a .380 also if I'm around long enough.

[b4uqzme]

I just checked the Kahrtalk statistics: there have been over 19,000 threads and almost 275,000 posts and over 7000 members. The percentage of negatives aren't as high as many would perceive. Still any forum is a magnet for negative comments as some come for help and others just to complain. You can learn a lot from those posts. Sometimes what to do and other times what not to do. Buy with confidence.

[chrish]

What everyone has said. You figure, at best, you can probably find 100 or so pissing and moaning threads here. Some justified, some not, some just people that didn't do their part (either following the manual for cleaning and breakin, or following the age old 'prep' thread here). But, compared to how many Kahrs are out there, how many threads and members here that have never griped, praised, or whatever. Stats are on the side of quality, reliable firearms.


FWIW, 3 Kahrs and counting...never a single problem. Not 1. 1000s of rounds with only the occasional slide not locking back due to my own 'slide riding' habit early on from handling my first smallish semi-auto. Take that w/ an anecdotal grain of salt, but that's my experience.

[garyb]

It is like anything we purchase. There are things we like and don't like. Nothing is perfect...like a boat. I purchased my PM40 based on the size of the gun for concealment and it has been flawless...I shoot it a lot. A good friend of mine hates it, but he is a Glock man. Everyone is different.

If you have any concern, try shooting one that has been broken in before you buy one. I would not base a decision to not buy, solely on the negatives you read....nor to buy, solely on the positives you read. They are merely personal reviews of an individual(s) experience and you read them only to give you information that you need to sort out for yourself as a buyer.

My PM40 does not fit my hand as well as my S&W M&P, nor do I like the PM's trigger as well as the M&P's I own. That's at the range. However, for concealed carry there is no beating my PM. The trigger on it is smooth but long and it is safe for my carry purposes without an external safety. But it shoots very well and I have gotten used to the long, smooth trigger and compact grip. My point with this is to say that you need to decide what you plan to use it for and then hold it and shoot it to figure out if it meets the specific needs for which you are purchasing it. A gun is kind of like a boat, in that one gun does not satisfy every need. Before you get too wrapped up in what people are writing or saying, look at what you intend for that gun and then go out and shop it based on how it satisfies that intended application. That gun certainly won't satisfy all applications and will be stronger in some categories and weaker in others.

Finally, as far as Kahr's not being reliable. Hog wash. I trust my life on mine. It is what I carry almost every day. It is as reliable as my S&W's. Any manufacturer has the same problems and issues with their guns. Kahr stands behind them from everything I have heard or read. They are a good company. You can count on that. The folks on this forum are the most helpful people I have come across. Trust Kahr.
Validate your needs and then shop your gun.

[wsgrady]

Thanks for all the timely help, am going to bite the bullet on the cw45 and__ if__needed seek the help from the members on this forum. Thanks again for your input and best regards...
ws grady

[SGT5711]

Congrats, I really think you will love it.

[garyb]

With all the negative reviews you've read and only a handful of replies here, what is making you decide... Just curious. Thanks.

[laserfish]

I think you will love it. I have purchased a used E9, and then a used K9 for the reason you stated, it was made just for my hand. I purchased a T9 brand new and have had not one hiccup from the first trigger pull. I love the T the best but still carry the K as well. Gave the E to my son and he loves it as much as I did. Like all brands, keep them clean and shoot them and you will not regret your purchase. Obviously, I like steel but the next purchase will be a pm or cm 9.

[yqtszhj]

I have a CW45 and it's nice. Enjoy your's and let us know if you have any problems (which you probably won't)

[kwh]

No problems with my CW45. 185 gr and 230 gr. standard velocity and also +P.

[chrish]

Since this thread is currently focused on the mid-sized Kahr 45, got a question for you folks that have BOTH a P/CW 45 and a P/CW 9. Is the grip on the 45 a tad longer or pretty much the same. I ultimately stopped carrying my P9 b/c I preferred the extra .5" on my TP9. I don't really think I want the TP45, but been thinking about adding a 45 to my collection and the P45 or CW45 look like they might have a tad more grip length than the P9/CW9. So just curious. If I had a little more to grip there, I think that'd be the sweet spot 45 for me.

[wyntrout]

I have 6 Kahrs and had 7... an extra P380 bought for my wife, who couldn't rack it.

I've had more than my share of problems with every new one... P380, PM45, and PM380#2, but between Kahr and myself, we got them working and reliable. I love them, especially the polymer-framed ones. I have absolute faith in Kahrs and figure that I can fix any problems myself with parts from Kahr on request, or by returning them to the factory on their dime. I have not seen anything better for concealed carry and I appreciate the compactness and light weight of the polymer-framed Kahrs.

I carry the P380, PM9, P9 with ported barrel, Mag-na-ported P40, and PM45. Some day I will have a P45 DLC with the night sights I want and will finally be content... until Kahr comes up with a K45 DLC with Trijicon HD Night Sights!

Yeah, they don't have the capacity of Glocks and other double-stacked-magazine autos, but I carry the largest-capacity-for-the-caliber spare mag (extended grip) in a Kydex holder on the opposite side, so I don't lack for ammo... almost as much as any one Glock mag for my home defense Glocks. :D

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

I have the PM9 and the P9. Since sidelining the P40 with the new Big Dots, the P9 has been my main EDC. The half inch extra grip and longer slide/barrel are no problem for CCW, especially since I replaced the no-quite-flush-fitting polymer grips on the CCW mags of the P9... and the P40. The really flush-fitting metal base plates are better for CCW and I'm happy with the concealability since I added the metal base plates and the 3/32" thick 3/4" inner diameter neoprene O-rings to prevent pinches.

If I had the P45, I would find Colt officer's model mags that fit flush and functioned properly and carry that pistol all of the time. The P-series is perfection in fit as is the K-series. my hands are medium-sized and I don't mind less than a hand filling grip. I'm fine with the PM45 and wish that I had metal base plates for the mags in it. The T models are just too long, especially for CCW.

Wynn:)

[otium]

Since this thread is currently focused on the mid-sized Kahr 45, got a question for you folks that have BOTH a P/CW 45 and a P/CW 9. Is the grip on the 45 a tad longer or pretty much the same. I ultimately stopped carrying my P9 b/c I preferred the extra .5" on my TP9. I don't really think I want the TP45, but been thinking about adding a 45 to my collection and the P45 or CW45 look like they might have a tad more grip length than the P9/CW9. So just curious. If I had a little more to grip there, I think that'd be the sweet spot 45 for me.


Standing a cw9 and cw45 on their top including the sights and with a magazine inserted the cw45 comes in about 3/8" taller than the cw9. I measure the overall height of the cw45 at 5-1/4".

[chrish]

Standing a cw9 and cw45 on their top including the sights and with a magazine inserted the cw45 comes in about 3/8" taller than the cw9. I measure the overall height of the cw45 at 5-1/4".

Thanks, more wondering though about the area between the trigger guard and the bottom of the grip...basically additional grip length below the trigger guard. If the slide and frame are the same height, then that'd translate to the grip...but wasn't sure how that translated between the guns. If you line up the base of the trigger guards, is the 45 longer.

[otium]

Thanks, more wondering though about the area between the trigger guard and the bottom of the grip...basically additional grip length below the trigger guard. If the slide and frame are the same height, then that'd translate to the grip...but wasn't sure how that translated between the guns. If you line up the base of the trigger guards, is the 45 longer.


Nearly the same. The top of the slide to the bottom of the trigger guard by the grip is about 1/10 of an inch difference. The CW9 comes in at 2.5" and the CW45 comes in at 2.59". So that would work out to around 1/4" of the extra height is going to the finger side of the grip on the CW45 versus the CW9.

From a practical comparison when I grip the CW9 my pinky is resting fully on the magazine base cover and with the CW45 my pinky is not touching the magazine base cover.

[chrish]

Nearly the same. The top of the slide to the bottom of the trigger guard by the grip is about 1/10 of an inch difference. The CW9 comes in at 2.5" and the CW45 comes in at 2.59". So that would work out to around 1/4" of the extra height is going to the finger side of the grip on the CW45 versus the CW9.

From a practical comparison when I grip the CW9 my pinky is resting fully on the magazine base cover and with the CW45 my pinky is not touching the magazine base cover.



Cool, thanks. That'll do it. If I had an extra 1/4 inch on my P9 I think it'd be about perfect for me. Will have to add this to the shopping list. Wanted a .45 in the collection for awhile, just never seem to run across one at the LGS or shows to actually hold and compare.

[wsgrady]

Hello Gary, I know that every brand has some negative reviews and I just wanted to hear from the happy owners on the forums. Additionally I've got average sized hands and love the way this fits. Glock 23 has been something I have carried for long time, it's what was issued to me and I'm familiar with it . Good pistol, but with age am starting to lose some grip strength and wanted something that was more of a natural fit for me. Pulled the trigger today and ordered one from Gallery of guns for $339.00 with the lifetime warranty and figured I couldn't get hurt for that price.

[muggsy]

Hi guys and gals, I have not read every post here but it seems there are a little more posts expressing more negatives on Kahr than I would like to hear being a prospective buyer, what gives? I'm long time shooter ( and getting a little long in the tooth also) and picked up an cw45 and thought someone designed this gun just for my hand. After researching short barrel ballistics decided I could live with'em and started the online review of this pistol here and on the net and now wondering if I'm having second thoughts on the brand? I know some say more people will post negatives than positives when they are unhappy but please tell me Kahr has more satisfied buyer's than not. Thanks for your time and looking forward to hearing that new Kahrs are reliable and mostly trouble free. (Yes I did read the break in procedure on this forum and still read about many small problems.)

Hopefully a future Kahr owner...ws grady

The only opinion that really counts is yours. I'm very happy with both of my Kahr pistols and one might say I'm never without them. I experienced some minor problems during the break-in but all were resolved. My CM9 and P380 are 100% reliable and a joy to carry. Hope you find your to be the same.

[Sage]

It's true that you're more likely to hear bad news than good news. I bought a new SR45 just last Saturday. I took it to the range Monday and put 150 rounds through it with no problems. My first impression is that it is a great shooter and incredibly accurate.

Even though I own several Rugers I am not a member of their forum. However if the pistol had badly malfunctioned I would probably have joined just to gripe.

[muggsy]

I've tried very hard, but I just can't bring myself to b!tch about my Kahr pistols when they work so well. :)

[JimC]

I've tried very hard, but I just can't bring myself to b!tch about my Kahr pistols when they work so well. :)


Other Kahr owners have not been so lucky and their real life problems and experiences with their Kahr pistols have been well documented here over and over.

I bitched about my PM9 when it was new and it took Kahr CS to straighten it out and they picked up the tab 100% for it to go back twice.

Mine was more about the magazines failing miserably than the pistol itself.

Prior to buying my PM9 two years ago, I came here to read about the PM9. I wanted to hear the good as well as the bad from PM9 owners but I was more interested in what problems, the bad, the owners were having and how Kahr handled them.