The Colt M4 came in today - pix finally -

[CJB]

The Colt M4 carbine came in today.

I like it!

So, without further adieu, a short review -

This is the 2013 config, according to the box. According to the box made in late Aug, 2013. The carbine differs from others that are older, and differs from others marked as 2013 config. I think they changed the config someplace along the line...

I've seen it advertised a few ways. They've made it with the military M4 stock, the MagPul MOE, and with the Colt-Rogers Super-Stoc (with no k on the end). Forends have been military and MagPul. In the past the carbines had carry handles with A2 sights. Sling swivels have varied all over the place, according to the furniture I guess.

Enough of that - mine came with the round M4 military forend, military M4 collapsable stock, standard non-detatchable military sling swivels (and a weird QD swivel that fits nothing), a MagPul 30 round Pmag, and a detatchable MBUS rear sight. I like the configuration. I can do without the carry handle... no big deal there. I like the general military grade no frills furniture. No frills, nothing to go wrong.

Before I get to the things I don't like.... a few things to share. The barrel and bolt are C/MP marked. Thats Colt Magnetic Particle inspected. Full military grade. The bolt carrier is chrome plated within its bore, the full length of its bore. The barrel and chamber are chrome plated as well. The buffer is marked H for heavy, which is what should be in a carbine. Front sight/gas block has military proof. Upper and lower recievers also carry the military mark.

The overall fit and finish are as good as the the other two AR's I own (or have owned).

Now the few slight complaints.

First, so very minor, and already fixed... but the trigger guard roll pin area and a little spot in the front of the mag well came "pre-worn" in the finish... sigh. First was from sloppy insertion of the pin, the mag well probably from crap packing... just a vapor bag in a cardboard box.

Second, the MBUS sight is not up to par with the rest of the carbine. I've got cheapie folding rear sights that I got from Amazon....that are miles ahead of the MBUS. Can't remember the brand I got, but they're all aluminum and actually work well, as opposed to the totally crap plastic wiggly movement MBUS sights. Not impressed at all. They'd work for CQB, but thats about all I can say. They're gonna get tossed quick!

And finally, the MagPul Pmag magazine....broke its left lip upon first loading. Total crap. The top is very flexible, to much so for my liking. I'll save the follower and spring for another magazine renovation.

The trigger isn't so bad. It has the normal AR hammer lift.... I guess thats normal. It was smooth as rubbing 60 grit sandpaper on my ... yah, that part. Owwww. However, with some cleaning, and with faux dry firing (receiver open, catch and reset the hammer with your thumb), it smoothed up ok with about 200 or so cycles.

The roll markings are

COLT M4 CARBINE cal 5.56Nato Colt Defense Hartford Conn USA

I'll see if I can snap some pictures of some degree of worthiness after work tomorrow.

I managed to hand cycle 50 rounds though it, and they fed and ejected smartly. The chamber has the dual M4 type feed ramps... probably helped that situation.

And thats all for now!

[MuscleDude]

Nice, Colt makes a fine AR.

the cheaper companies though poop out some bad ones though (some even don't have chrome bores, my god in an AR thats insane). Thats why AR's get reputation as jam-tastic (people think a non chromed no-name brand is the same as a milspec colt)

Also yea I'd recommend avoiding plastic mags, though magpul pmags were said to be the best im surprised yours already broke. I like the standard aluminum mags with a few steel ones in storage as backup (cuz the aluminunm mags do wear out over time, the steel ones don't)

I'm curious how well it performs for you, Colt is said to be the best and most reliable of the AR's.

[CJB]

I've got a ton of 20 and 30 round mags.... aluminum, Colt marked. From the early 80's.

The problem with the AR is the powder. Stoner set things up using IMR powder, which is a fine tubular grain (like little bits of hollow linguine). The US Army decided to use ball powder - which is round flat flake using the Winchester-Olin process. Unburnt little tubes were tolerated. Unburnt flat flakes got into the spaces between the bolt and barrel extension, carrier and upper, ... just anyplace that a jam would happen, those flakes got.

Chrome was added very early to the barrel bores, and later to the bolt carrier bores, because of the tropical element of the SE Asia theater. In that climate, bolt bores rusted, regardless of priming compound. And carriers were seen to rust even more due to the nature of the gas system (internal sweating).

Even tough I will hopefully and probably not NEED a chrome lining in the carrier and bore... agreed, its nice to know its there. Once less thing to worry about.

[yqtszhj]

Is it a 16 inch heavy barrel or the standard "lighter" barrel?

If it's the standard barrel if you don't mind how about a report on how well it holds it's zero when it warms up. My 20 inch H-bar holds its zero well to 100 yards but my 16 inch standard M4 drifts quite a bit as it warms up, high left if I remember right.

[ParabellumJ]

Is it a 16 inch heavy barrel or the standard "lighter" barrel?

If it's the standard barrel if you don't mind how about a report on how well it holds it's zero when it warms up. My 20 inch H-bar holds its zero well to 100 yards but my 16 inch standard M4 drifts quite a bit as it warms up, high left if I remember right.

I can probably answer that one. It sounds like he has the basic 6920 which comes with the lighter profile barrel. The 6920 SOCOM comes with the heavy barrel and is marked M4A1 rather than M4 Carbine and comes with KAC quad rails rather than the GI handguards. Either way its a fine rifle.

I'm surprised to hear about PMag problems, especially given their reputation. That's all I use and they have never given me a single problem.

[Armybrat]

Oh wow, I've been lusting after an AR since the insanity of the rrecent panic buying settled down.

This particular Colt M4 is #1 on my wish list:

http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/113256

http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/prodimages/15545-DEFAULT-l.jpg

[The Faux King]

Nice purchase. I love my Colt rifle, couldn't be more satisfied with how it performs!

[CJB]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/M4/IMG_6588_zps209472d2.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/M4/IMG_6588_zps209472d2.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/M4/IMG_6622_zps46532da7.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/M4/IMG_6622_zps46532da7.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/M4/IMG_6621_zps0a00ab4f.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/M4/IMG_6621_zps0a00ab4f.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/M4/IMG_6619_zps9374bebd.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/M4/IMG_6619_zps9374bebd.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/M4/IMG_6618_zps87526319.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/M4/IMG_6618_zps87526319.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/M4/IMG_6617_zpsdff052e2.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/M4/IMG_6617_zpsdff052e2.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/M4/IMG_6616_zpsdfa030ac.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/M4/IMG_6616_zpsdfa030ac.jpg.html)

[CJB]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/M4/IMG_6612_zpsfc72cbff.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/M4/IMG_6612_zpsfc72cbff.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/M4/IMG_6610_zpsf2d3c547.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/M4/IMG_6610_zpsf2d3c547.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/M4/IMG_6609_zpsce91cbc2.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/M4/IMG_6609_zpsce91cbc2.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/M4/IMG_6589_zpsaf445d4a.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/M4/IMG_6589_zpsaf445d4a.jpg.html)

[CJB]

Don't mind the cat hair....

Of particular note to me - the way they attach the flash hider. Used to be there was a shim washer. Now it looks like a crush washer. I guess thats for alignment with the newer type of flash hiders that don't kick up as much.

So far so good, but the trigger's got to go..... I'd be hard pressed to hit a #2 washtub at 50 yards with that trigger. Rave reviews of the Geissele make me think thats the way to go. They've totally redesigned the FC parts to be like a little cousin of the M14 (more or less) which seems like a better way to go. They're also a third of the price of a new rifle... so it wont be too soon.

[The Faux King]

I love my Geissele SSA -- huge improvement over the stock trigger.

[Longitude Zero]

For me Timney AR triggers beat out EVERYBODY!

[DeaconKC]

A very handsome rifle and good luck on your trigger upgrade.

[ParabellumJ]

Nice rifle! I do love Colts. The trigger on mine was decent new and now is about as good as a mil-spec trigger gets. They do tend to smooth out after you shoot it. Also a little polishing will speed that up. Mine is a fighting rifle and not a target rifle, so that mil-spec trigger weight is fine by me. Enjoy the new Colt and let us know how she shoots.

[ripley16]

Nice Colt. Very tough and reliable. I've got a Colt 6920 sitting in the safe myself. You'll enjoy it. The trigger is OK. If you really want to target shoot, a better trigger may be in order. A nice optic makes these a real blast.

[CJB]

I was surfing the different shops... and there was a cyber-Monday sale at PSA.

They had the Geissele SSA-E and a complete lower parts kit, minus buffer tube and stock, for the normal price of the SSA-E

I bit the bullet. This fits well with my plan to build an AR pistol in .223. I can transplant the Colt trig into whatever receiver I get... use the rest of the parts. I've already got the tools and vice to hold AR uppers and lowers and have done total strip and reassemble to every last little pin and spring and clip, so we'll get started on the lower..... in the spring.

And in the meantime I've got an SSA-E for the M4.

PSA say's it should be in my hands by Thursday or Friday. Might be a good weekend!

[The Faux King]

Congrats! That's a pretty good deal -- currently saving my parts from my Colt to build a frankenAR as well, but think I will go with a mid length instead of the pistol.

[yqtszhj]

Don't mind the cat hair....

Of particular note to me - the way they attach the flash hider. Used to be there was a shim washer. Now it looks like a crush washer. I guess thats for alignment with the newer type of flash hiders that don't kick up as much.

So far so good, but the trigger's got to go..... I'd be hard pressed to hit a #2 washtub at 50 yards with that trigger. Rave reviews of the Geissele make me think thats the way to go. They've totally redesigned the FC parts to be like a little cousin of the M14 (more or less) which seems like a better way to go. They're also a third of the price of a new rifle... so it wont be too soon.

That's funny. I saw that cat hair too. Nice rig you have there. I'm interested to hear how it shoots.

[CJB]

I've dry fired it with the receiver open, catching the hammer with my thumb...500 times counting, and maybe 50 or 60 more times not counting. The AR trigger is ... what it is I guess.

Its gritty, its angles of the engaging surfaces are intended to create a margin of mechanical and operational safety, and I really wonder how some US Marine can qualify at long ranges with one, on a man sized target. But they do. And I'm not a Marine. I'll use the 2 stage .. I like 2 stage triggers. Doesn't have to be light, but has to have a clean break and smoothness.

[ParabellumJ]

Nice find with the PSA deal. I just decided to put together an AR build myself. It was hard to pass up some of the deals this weekend. Locally I found a LWRC stripped lower at a steal, quickly sold it for almost double and used the funds on a stripped Spikes lower, CMMG LPK, and other bits for the lower build.

[CJB]

who makes a decent quality lower

[les strat]

Congrats on a great rifle! I love my LE6920MOE-FDE

http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q706/bonehead911/ARbed_zpsdd1dd838.jpg

[CJB]

I prefer a naked rifle... no desire for the add-ons... but its pretty to look at!

Ended up getting a DTI lower......

The stripped lower and 10.5" Noveske top are inbound as we speak. The Noveske was not my first choice but there are few 10.5" lowers of decent quality ready to ship, and I had a big discount card to cash in on.... so.... it ended up being about the same dollars as a low end 10.5" lower, even when I added a rear sight to the order.

Once its here..... ATF Form 1 for SBR manufacture, and enjoy the AR pistol in the meantime while Uncle Sam muddles thru the tax stamp.

[certified106]

Les Strat, Nice looking rifle

[les strat]

I prefer a naked rifle... no desire for the add-ons... but its pretty to look at!

Ended up getting a DTI lower......

The stripped lower and 10.5" Noveske top are inbound as we speak. The Noveske was not my first choice but there are few 10.5" lowers of decent quality ready to ship, and I had a big discount card to cash in on.... so.... it ended up being about the same dollars as a low end 10.5" lower, even when I added a rear sight to the order.

Once its here..... ATF Form 1 for SBR manufacture, and enjoy the AR pistol in the meantime while Uncle Sam muddles thru the tax stamp.

I would love to build and SBR. Noveski is good stuff.


Les Strat, Nice looking rifle

Thank you. It's actually light even with the Eotech and light. I like the Magpul handuards. Keeps it light.

[CJB]

Is Noveske good? They use OTS components.... Bravo uppers, etc etc. I think their only claim is their barrels. Dunno for sure. I only got it because it was available and I had the eCoupon that needed to be used before it expired.

My FFL tells me Form 1 SBR and SBS is faster and less hassle than buying the same with Form 4. Thete are also legal advantages with a Form 1 stamp.....ie.. ypu can go from SBR to standard as you please, and can sell the lower as std with no extra paperwork....as long as the upper isnt with it.

[les strat]

Yes, Noveske is considered top-tier, even above Colt, which is the gold standard. The arfcom gang worship Noveske rifles, so I am sure their parts are good stuff.

[TheTman]

Question for the AR experts out there. Would you go with a gas piston, so that it doesn't dump hot gas and particles into the bolt area, or just stick with the standard gas tube arrangement? I think the piston (like on an AK) makes more sense than having all that crap (gas residue, unburned powder) dumped into the bolt area. I think the direct gas system clogging up the bolt is responsible for many of the failures during battle, when soldiers didn't have time to clean the bolt during a firefight. That's just my guess. I think the piston system rifles are more expensive, but maybe it's worth it to not have to clean the bolt area so often. Thanks for any replies.

[muggsy]

Unless you are into long sessions of rapid fire the standard gas system is just fine. Both systems have their pluses and minuses. I prefer the SOCOM version as they are a little more accurate than the standard M-4.

[Bawanna]

Is Noveske good? They use OTS components.... Bravo uppers, etc etc. I think their only claim is their barrels. Dunno for sure. I only got it because it was available and I had the eCoupon that needed to be used before it expired.

My FFL tells me Form 1 SBR and SBS is faster and less hassle than buying the same with Form 4. Thete are also legal advantages with a Form 1 stamp.....ie.. ypu can go from SBR to standard as you please, and can sell the lower as std with no extra paperwork....as long as the upper isnt with it.

What does this mean exactly, it's easier to get a pistol and then license it as a SBR rather than get a rifle and get the tax stamp to put a short barrel?

[ParabellumJ]

Question for the AR experts out there. Would you go with a gas piston, so that it doesn't dump hot gas and particles into the bolt area, or just stick with the standard gas tube arrangement? I think the piston (like on an AK) makes more sense than having all that crap (gas residue, unburned powder) dumped into the bolt area. I think the direct gas system clogging up the bolt is responsible for many of the failures during battle, when soldiers didn't have time to clean the bolt during a firefight. That's just my guess. I think the piston system rifles are more expensive, but maybe it's worth it to not have to clean the bolt area so often. Thanks for any replies.

Unless you are shooting full auto or suppressed there is really no need for a piston system. The rifle was designed to be direct impingement and functions just fine with this gas system.

[CJB]

What does this mean exactly, it's easier to get a pistol and then license it as a SBR rather than get a rifle and get the tax stamp to put a short barrel?

Its easier to take an existing receiver and "manufacture" your own SBR or SBS, rather than buy a SBR or SBS already made. Different forms, slightly different process, and different ATF internal workngs (I've been told).

Down side is you need to engrave the receiver, frame or barrel with your name and city/state as a "manufacturer". Up side, you get to enjoy the AR pistol until the form is returned with a stamp. Then you can get a buttstock and slide it onto your lower and you're good to go.

Once you SBR the receiver, you can go from SBR to standard rifle, no issues at all. Back and forth at will is ok with ATF. You can convert it to standard again, and leave it that way and not tell ATF, and even sell it as standard without telling them. If it started as a pistol you can go pistol to SBR to std rifle and back at will... zero restrictions. If you ever want to sell, it may be better to engrave the upper or barrel rather than lower.... depends on personal preference.

Clearer?

[CJB]

Question for the AR experts out there. Would you go with a gas piston, so that it doesn't dump hot gas and particles into the bolt area, or just stick with the standard gas tube arrangement? I think the piston (like on an AK) makes more sense than having all that crap (gas residue, unburned powder) dumped into the bolt area. I think the direct gas system clogging up the bolt is responsible for many of the failures during battle, when soldiers didn't have time to clean the bolt during a firefight. That's just my guess. I think the piston system rifles are more expensive, but maybe it's worth it to not have to clean the bolt area so often. Thanks for any replies.

AR issues started with the wrong powder being used after the rifle was in production, and with high humidity (rain) in the SE Asia theater. This is well documented, and even documented in DOD armorers manuals from the earlymid 1960's. Scary to tink the AR platform, is 56 years old! HoooLeeee Crapp!

The rifle was designed with the bolt being the piston. It works that way IF you feed it the right ammo. Personally, I used H335 in my AR reloads, and have no powder related failures. I get a few case releated failures.... due to reloading random range brass. Necks and such being out of spec. That sort of thing.

Adding the piston above the barrel puts stress on the upper and puts stress on the buffer tube. The rifle wasn't designed for that sort of operation. Its not a FAL or AK. The FAL btw had major problems with Cordite in foul weather.... and the Brits and Canadians modded their bolts to help with the issue.

Using the RIGHT spherical (ball powder) is ok in the AR. IMR type extruded powders work better if you're varying the loads. To me, the best ball powder is the H335 loaded close to max, which insures a good burn and few residual grains.

Carbon build up ... from gas and soot... is not much of a problem with the right powder and load. I've personally had well over 2500 rounds through my old AR in one rainy weekend, with no failures at all. Thats a butt load of magazines full of ammo! Fortunately I had a lady friend along to load the mags!

[TheTman]

I'd read that the using the wrong type of gunpowder can cause more fouling of the bolt area, than using the type of powder the rifle was designed for. Thanks for all the info!

[CJB]

Forgot to mention, the AR is not a transmission. I does not need to be lubricated like a transmission. Over lube, wrong lube, will foul things too.

Problemo numero uno: Unburnt powder and particles stick to the lube and make mud of it.

Problemo numero dos: The hot gas can literally fry the lube and mud into hard carbon deposits.

I am still hearing reports of range instructors, in basic training, carrying spray bottles of CLP to keep rifles working on the line. Total nonesense to me.... but they do what they gotta, even though it makes the problem worse.

And, also fwiw, my own FAL was hell on its gas system up front, and it would quickly carbon up, say 500 rounds or so... and you'd have to sit and scrub. The AK seemed to be invincible. SKS is damn near invincible too.

[ParabellumJ]

who makes a decent quality lower


There are so many companies that make good lowers it's not possible to list. As long as their quality is consistent and the receivers are within specs you are good to go.

Del-Ton has been known to put out some receivers out of specs, so I hope you get a good one. They are on the lower end of the spectrum when it comes to rifles, but since it's a stripped receiver it should be ok to use as long as it's within spec.

Personally I just finished building a Spikes Tactical lower. I wasn't planning on building a rifle but the deals over Black Friday were so good I couldn't pass it up. It came out great. After the chaos and bills of the holidays are over I will start looking for an upper.

Let us know how that Del-Ton works out.

[TheTman]

Well, I don't see any big inheritance or anything coming my way, so I guess I'll just stick to the 7.62 x 39 world for now. Not sure what I'd use an AR for anyway other than personal defense, and I have that covered. I think it's just one of those things that they are trying so hard to ban them that I want one. Plus in a SHTF situation, .223 will probably be a lot easier to scavenge then 7.62 x 39.
I'd really rather have an FN-FAL, or M1A, or HK G3 in 7.62x51.

[CJB]

There are so many companies that make good lowers it's not possible to list. As long as their quality is consistent and the receivers are within specs you are good to go.

Del-Ton has been known to put out some receivers out of specs, so I hope you get a good one. They are on the lower end of the spectrum when it comes to rifles, but since it's a stripped receiver it should be ok to use as long as it's within spec.

Personally I just finished building a Spikes Tactical lower. I wasn't planning on building a rifle but the deals over Black Friday were so good I couldn't pass it up. It came out great. After the chaos and bills of the holidays are over I will start looking for an upper.

Let us know how that Del-Ton works out.

Thanks Parabellum. I did some checking before ordering. I was able to come across one problem on the lowers, which was a guy who had a mis-machined top deck that caused his upper to cant to the left. Del-Ton replaced it, and the replacement was good. Most folks are saying they have one, or more, and that they're good. The uppers get less favorable reviews, something to do with the inner lubricant. That whole inner lube layer baffles me because with some use and cleaning... its got to wear rapidly. Maybe I'm clueless on that.

Del-Ton did have a huge issue with bolts. Improper heat treatment, which btw, does not show up in a magniflux test. Some folks say MP is for magnetic particle test, others say its for Magnetic/Proof (or pressure) tested. I don't know which it is, but Del-Ton had a run of bolts that failed, some quite severely. Aparantly they made good on all claims because you hear folks complaining about the failures, but nobody says "and I got screwed because they wouldn't honor a claim". There are a few internet stories of them replacing uppers and lowers with complete new rifles, and reimbursing owners of more high end lowers that were damaged when the bolt and uppers failed.

And, the Del-Ton was available, and priced ok, so thats what I got.

Time will tell. Shipping backlog. Email said expect delivery by Dec 23rd.

[ParabellumJ]

And, the Del-Ton was available, and priced ok, so thats what I got.



Time will tell. Shipping backlog. Email said expect delivery by Dec 23rd.


Good to hear their problems seem to be isolated. Too bad about the backlog. I got my Spikes lower on Black Friday from Aim Surplus for $89, free shipping. I had it in a week. They were still in stock as of last night for the same price.

On a side note, I know you replaced your trigger in your colt and that got me to evaluate mine. It wasn't too bad, but I was ordering a Spikes nickel boron battle trigger for the new lower so I decided to upgrade the trigger in the Colt while I was at it. Neither of these guns are target rifles so I wanted to stay with a mil spec trigger, just something smoother. I went with an ALG QMS (quality mil spec) which is actually pretty good. It's basically Colt parts honed and tuned by Geissele Automatics. Pull is about 6 lbs in both the QMS and Spikes battle trigger, but the QMS seems a little crisper. They are both leaps and bounds better than the stock Colt bang switch.

[CJB]

The SSA-E feels about like a pull on a quality bolt action rifle from the factory. Imagine a stock Ruger 77 or Remington 700 that is not too heavy, but clean with just ever so little amount of creep. Its not target either. I do like the two stage release.... its my preference, I guess since I'm used to M1 and M14 triggers, and the Mini 14 too.

[les strat]

Question for the AR experts out there. Would you go with a gas piston, so that it doesn't dump hot gas and particles into the bolt area, or just stick with the standard gas tube arrangement? I think the piston (like on an AK) makes more sense than having all that crap (gas residue, unburned powder) dumped into the bolt area. I think the direct gas system clogging up the bolt is responsible for many of the failures during battle, when soldiers didn't have time to clean the bolt during a firefight. That's just my guess. I think the piston system rifles are more expensive, but maybe it's worth it to not have to clean the bolt area so often. Thanks for any replies.

Not an expert here, but for the average person, gas piston in not needed, just run it a little wet with CLP. Just don't run it dry. Trust me, the AR will run better wet and dirty than dry and dirty. Hickok45 has a great video on lubing an AR.

Yes the piston is more expensive and heavier.