Timney trigger upgrade for 870?

[garyb]

My dad no longer deer hunts. He gave me his 870 12 ga. It is an older model with a nice wood stock. Nice shotgun, but needed some upgrades to make it a shooter. I've tricked it up a little to make it a better shooter. I replaced his 20' smooth bore iron sight barrel; with a Hastings cantilevered ported barrel and Leopold scope; and added a Sims recoil pad. It is a nice shooting sabot gun now.

The 870 triggers suck. I am quite trigger sensitive. I don't like stiff, creep or sloppy triggers. (Still not sure I even like the long trigger on my PM). I'd like to do a Timney trigger upgrade which sells for about $85.

I did a trigger upgrade to my TC Encore and it is very light (1.5lbs and no travel). It was a complicated mod.

Has anyone out there done this Timney upgrade to an 870? What is involved? Is it difficult to do? I am thinking it is rather simple, but thought I'd ask for any input I can get before I order this.
Thanks.

[garyb]

I went to the Timney site and found the installation instructions. It is basically removing the factory sear and spring and installing a new set. The instructions show an order of disassembly and reassembly, so it should not be too bad to do. Timney supplies a new sear and 3 springs (light, med and heavy). Each spring has an additional adjustment of about 1 pound which is done by an allen set screw. I do not know how much trigger travel this kit will have....but I am guessing the kit basically changes the tension of the trigger and that is about it. Time will tell. I have contacted Timney because it appears this same kit may work on the Remington 760...which I also have. I used to be very fond of pump action guns, so the 870 shotgun and 760 rifle (30-06) are very similar and make fine companions for small game, deer hunting and most rifle hunting game animals. They show the 7600 listed as compatible for the 870 trigger fix kit and I am hoping the 760 will also be a fit. If so, I will order two kits. Both guns desperately need better triggers and the kit may be just what the Dr ordered. Wait till the wifey hears this one.....

[muggsy]

Two of my bolt action rifles have Timney triggers. There is no creep and they break like snapping a glass rod. Based on my experience with Timney I see no reason for the quality of their 870 trigger to be any different.

[DeaconKC]

+1 to what Muggsy said. Timney's are great on old Mausers and I can't imagine the quality not being there.

[AJBert]

I've got a couple of 870's and never even thought about changing out the triggers. Of course, I'm not shooting slugs out of either one at deer. I've never had a problem with the trigger on any shotgun being used as a shotgun (ie: bird, clays, home defense). I can see, however, when using one as a slug gun.

See, I just learned something and the day isn't even over yet!

[RRP]

The 870 is a great shotgun. I own 'em. I love 'em. But it's a shotgun; not a precision rifle.

I never would have considered upgrading the trigger to make it more like a rifle. To me, that's analogous to putting racing wheels on a Chevy Vega. It can be done, but it will still be a Vega.

[garyb]

The 870 is a great shotgun. I own 'em. I love 'em. But it's a shotgun; not a precision rifle.

I never would have considered upgrading the trigger to make it more like a rifle. To me, that's analogous to putting racing wheels on a Chevy Vega. It can be done, but it will still be a Vega.

RRP, The confusion comes in that the fix does not change out the "trigger". The factory trigger stays and this fix only replaces the sear and sear spring to make the trigger function much better. And on the contrary.....if you are using your 870 for sabot slugs, it IS precision. It does not need to be a rifle to be precision. I guess you would have to shoot a good rifled barrel sabot shooting shotgun to realize the potential. I don't see this 870 as a Vega at all. And No racing wheels going on here. It is merely a trigger fix. This sabot gun is a REAL shooter that simply needs a better trigger.
Muggsy, you obviously know what the deal is here. Timney is known for being top notch. A good trigger makes a good gun. Most shooters know this.
Thanks.

[mr surveyor]

you guys that hunt in the "limited states" have to find every tiny work-around advantage you can. Sounds like you may be on to something.

[knkali]

My dad no longer deer hunts. He gave me his 870 12 ga. It is an older model with a nice wood stock. Nice shotgun, but needed some upgrades to make it a shooter. I've tricked it up a little to make it a better shooter. I replaced his 20' smooth bore iron sight barrel; with a Hastings cantilevered ported barrel and Leopold scope; and added a Sims recoil pad. It is a nice shooting sabot gun now.

The 870 triggers suck. I am quite trigger sensitive. I don't like stiff, creep or sloppy triggers. (Still not sure I even like the long trigger on my PM). I'd like to do a Timney trigger upgrade which sells for about $85.

I did a trigger upgrade to my TC Encore and it is very light (1.5lbs and no travel). It was a complicated mod.

Has anyone out there done this Timney upgrade to an 870? What is involved? Is it difficult to do? I am thinking it is rather simple, but thought I'd ask for any input I can get before I order this.
Thanks.

I like the way you think. I am fairly new to shotys and have an 870. The Timney trig kit is a perfect thought. Report back in detail when it is done. BTW, why did you select that barrel? I don't have an opinion either way. Just learning more and more.

[knkali]

The 870 is a great shotgun. I own 'em. I love 'em. But it's a shotgun; not a precision rifle.

I never would have considered upgrading the trigger to make it more like a rifle. To me, that's analogous to putting racing wheels on a Chevy Vega. It can be done, but it will still be a Vega.

Dude, IMHO you owe it to the animal you are going to harvest. To be as accurate as possible shows respect. Again just my .00002 cents. Sorry for the use of "dude". In California that could come off as pontificating.
You can say just the same word "dude" in different ways and it means different things. I thought only Asian languages did that.

Dude= attention
Duude= really? c'mon or seriously
Duuuude= are you fukking kidding me? WTF?
;)

[garyb]

I like the way you think. I am fairly new to shotys and have an 870. The Timney trig kit is a perfect thought. Report back in detail when it is done. BTW, why did you select that barrel? I don't have an opinion either way. Just learning more and more.

I had a friend who shot an 870 and purchased a Hasting barrel. His shot so well, that I was convinced to get the same barrel vs the factory Rem rifled barrel that is now available. The Hastings (although French made) is heavier than the Rem rifled barrels and it is ported. It shoots like a tack driver. Comparing the Rem factory smooth bore 20" IC iron sight barrel that came with my Dad's 870....which could shoot a paper plate at 50 yards. The Hastings cantilevered Rifled barrel with a Leopold long eye relief shotgun scope can shoot a 3" group at 100 yrds. There is no comparison between the original barrel to what the 870 has on it now.

And yes, my area of NYS is limited to shotgun and muzzleloader for deer hunting. Back in the day when there were only smooth bore shotguns, I decided to go strictly to muzzleloader (50 call Hawken with patched round ball) because the smoke pole was just like a rifle with rifle accuracy. Today, the rifled barreled shotguns with sabots (if you get the correct sabot that groups best for that particular barrel), will shoot just as good as the muzzleloader...even an inline. I know because I have about 6 traditional rifles (patched round ball) and 2 in-lines (Knight and TC Encore). The big advantage of the muzzleloader is that they have a set trigger or hair trigger which greatly enhances accuracy. My wife and I were once the FL state champs.

Anyway, by updating to a Timney trigger will make a HUGE difference to that old 870 of my Dad's...especially with the Scoped Hastings and Sims recoil pad. I can use the original 20" IC smoothbore barrel with iron sights for home defense (loaded with rifled slugs and defense rounds); I have a 26" vent rib with 3 choke tubes and a turkey tube for small game and turkey hunting; and I have the Hastings Scoped rifled barrel and Timney trigger for very accurate deer and bear hunting.

Some might feel that it is still an 870 Chevy Vega. However, this is not your standard 870 shotgun anymore. It is MY DAD's tripped out and highly versatile 870. It will get passed down through generations of my family. I probably put $750 into what was originally a $225 shotgun (when originally purchased back in the early 70's). My Dad's 870 is the Wingmaster model which is a better grade 870 stock than the cheaper stocks you find on the store shelves today. It will outshoot most shotguns out there.

[muggsy]

Dude, IMHO you owe it to the animal you are going to harvest. To be as accurate as possible shows respect. Again just my .00002 cents. Sorry for the use of "dude". In California that could come off as pontificating.
You can say just the same word "dude" in different ways and it means different things. I thought only Asian languages did that.

Dude= attention
Duude= really? c'mon or seriously
Duuuude= are you fukking kidding me? WTF?
;)

Dude, I have a Hastings barrel on my 870 and it improved the accuracy tremendously. I had to do a little experimenting with different loads, but with Winchester sabots, I'll keep them all within a six inch circle at 75 yards. I didn't go with the Timney, but would be interested in what you think of it once it's installed.

[garyb]

I will let you all know how the Timney upgrade works out. I am just as interested. I contacted Timney yesterday and they replied immediately. I wanted to know if the same upgrade will work on my Rem 760 Gamemaster pump 30-06 rifle. They told me it is the same trigger assembly. Now for those of you who don't feel a trigger upgrade is necessary on an 870 deer gun....I'd say you probably don't know what a good trigger will do for you. It will make just as much a difference on my Rem rifle. Well worth the $85 to have an excellent trigger. We'll see how this upgrade works out. I am kind of excited because I am so trigger sensitive and know a good trigger when I feel one.

[garyb]

Dude, I have a Hastings barrel on my 870 and it improved the accuracy tremendously. I had to do a little experimenting with different loads, but with Winchester sabots, I'll keep them all within a six inch circle at 75 yards. I didn't go with the Timney, but would be interested in what you think of it once it's installed.

I know it is very expensive to test the groups of sabots...painfully expensive. And I realize that every shotgun is different and likes a certain sabot. I found that the Win sabots were #2 in group with my Hastings. The Federal Barnes Expanders grouped a bit better, but I could live with the Wins through my Hastings 12ga barrel. I had purchased Fed, Win, Hornady, and Rem Acutips for the grouping test. I went with the best group and spent about $100 trying to figure this out. Now Feds are no longer offering the Barnes Expanders and are making their own Trophy sabot. I do not know how this groups yet. I hate to change sabots once I spend the time and money on testing a barrel to get the right fit. I still have about 10 boxes of the 12ga Fed Barnes Expanders, but will need to change when they are used up on deer. It is painfully expensive to retest groups for a particular shotgun barrel.

[mr surveyor]

whatever you do, hang on to that Wingmaster. If I was Remington, or what's left of Remington, I think dropping the "870 line" would have been the prudent thing to do rather than push a cheapened version on the market with the same product number. The Wingmaster is an icon in blue collar American shotgun history.

I anxious to see pics and a range report from the finished product.

JD

[muggsy]

Ammunition testing is the #1 reason that I will probably die a pauper, but with a smile on my face. I feel your pain. Mostly in my right shoulder. :)

[garyb]

I put the Timney upgrade (on the 870 Wingmaster and 760 Gamemaster) in the "Q" for a discussion with my wife for my Christmas present for this year. If I don't get administrative approval or at least a dirty nasty look, I'm doomed to becoming a monk. I'll post a report when I Git-R-Done.

And YES, you are absolutely correct about the Wingmaster. Some guys think of 870's as crap shotguns and that might be true from what I see on the gun shelves today. But the Wingmaster line of the 870 is one fine shotgun (as far as 870's go) and worthy of the pricey upgrades I am giving to her....not to mention that it was my Dad's and will be passed down the family line as such. Even without the Timney trigger upgrade, this scoped Hastings barrel on it is just amazing. It is an ugly barrel and French made :puke:, but it shoots sabots with great accuracy. The nice thing about the 870 IMO, is that you can keep the scope on the deer and cycle it for your next shot...much like an auto. Great deer gun and that's why the Benoits (Maine deer hunting family) all go with the 760 pump...
Simply good whitetail deer guns for these woods.

[garyb]

I guess I am doomed to monkhood. I found the Timney upgrade on ebay for under $80 with free shipping. I couldn't pass that deal up. If my wife gives me the boot, you guys will give moral support to my decision won't you???? haha.

By the way, I know of Timney triggers from having one on my Knight TBolt in line muzzle loading rifle. It is a beautiful trigger and has nice adjustments.

[AJBert]

I've never thought of any of the multiple 870 variations as being junk...

providing they were made about 15 years ago or earlier. I've said in another post that there is not much or anything I'd buy from Remington these days. One possible exception would be an R1 Enhanced.

Well, that isn't quite true as I would get a Springfield Range Officer first.

[muggsy]

I'd put the Remington 870 in the same class as a Browning BPS or Ithaca Model 37 and almost as good as a Winchester Model 12. If it wasn't a good shotgun I wouldn't own it.

[garyb]

I have a 40 yr old Ithaca 37 featherweight 16 ga with short slug barrel (iron sights) and a longer 26 or 28" modified choke smooth bore barrel with orange bead (for small game hunting). It was a good gun and I shot many deer and rabbit with it. I'm storing it in the vault because of the 16ga being less available....possibly as a collector piece someday for someone in the fam.

You are right Muggsy, the 870 is about in the same class. I actually feel that my Dad's older Wingmaster 12ga is a grade above that Ithaca I have. I think it is also better built. In the case of his 870 (now mine), having the 3 barrels and being a 12ga, it is far more functional and versatile as a working gun. To me a working gun is the gun I'm using in these woods. I've often considered that when I get older and start to give out my guns to the kids, grandkids (and future great grandkids), this 870 Wingmaster may be one of the guns I may hang on to until they pry what I have kept working, from my cold dead fingers...with a note as to who gets them. Kind of like how Hatchet Jack did it in the movie "Jeremiah Johnson" (one of my all time favorites).

[muggsy]

I just gave my 870 a final going over. I heading for the hills this Sunday. The Hocking hills that is. I'd like to get a nice buck, but if it's brown it's going down. I'm going to shoot the first deer that looks like it might be good to eat.

[AJBert]

Every deer I see looks like it will be good to eat, though I tend to let the young'uns live to see another year or two.

[CJB]

I like great triggers. Will be doing a Kidd trigger on the 10/22.... but for the three 870's I own... I dunno... before I sprung for a Timney I'd see what I could do with the stock one.

It could be your 870 trigger really sucks. Then by all means... upgrade.

Another thing, is you can find some 870 trigger groups -complete- every once in a while. Just sayin'

[Longitude Zero]

Timneys are in all my AR's

[garyb]

The factory triggers on both the 870 and 760 are both the same...too heavy to suit me. Typical Rem factory trigger....nothing special. Some guys might settle for them, but I've never been fond. The Timney fix for the 870 is ordered and will be in this week. Tanning my 10 pt right now, so this week will be tied up and probably won't get to the 870 trigger mod until next weekend. This has been something I've wanted to have done to these two guns for a long time. If the 870 turns out good, I will order a second Timney fix for the 760. Timney is a top notch upgrade, so I am having HIGH hopes for this fix. I'll let you know how it works out. Unfortunately, my trigger gauge is not a digital, so my measurements may be limited. But I will let you know if the Timney fix a thumbs up or down for the 870/760.

[garyb]

Timney upgrade arrived yesterday. Man, for such a small package (sear and 3 springs), it was kind of expensive. Not much for the money, but I suppose it was custom made for the gun. I sure hope it does the job.

I won't be getting to the upgrade today because I need to flesh a cape this morning and get my 2 hr workout in. Perhaps this weekend I will give the upgrade a try. My trigger gauge may not go high enough for the factory trigger measurement (pre - mod), but should be find for the post upgrade measurement. I'll give you a report when complete.

[Longitude Zero]

If you are even half as pleased with the Timney as I am you will be overjoyed.

[garyb]

Finished fleshing my deer cape and got in my workout. Wife went to book club with her girl friends. Decided to have at that Timney upgrade. It only took me about 30 minutes from start to finish, including cleaning the trigger mechanism and lubing it good. It was a very simple job. Instructions could be a little clearer (blurry illustrations), but I figured it out. I've done trigger jobs before and this was a simple disassemble, swap out the sear and sear spring job. The original 870 trigger had a 72 oz pull (4.5 lbs). I used the lighter of the 3 springs and did NOT make any adjustment to the allen screw which gives a +/- 1 lb adjustment range. The post timney weighed approx. 1.7 lbs. which felt pretty good to me.

The Rem trigger is still a Rem trigger, just lighter. I had hoped I could use the sear springs that came with the kit, on my Rem 870. However, with the Timney sear and spring kit, the springs are a little shorter. They fit the new Timney sear, but not the Rem sear. So it looks like I will need to do a trigger job to the 760 too. It weighted out at about 64 oz or 4 lbs pull. I like my triggers under 2 lbs on rifles, sabot shooting shotguns and muzzleloaders. Some are at 1.5lbs or less. A lighter trigger on the 760 will make it a better shooter.

I would say the Timney upgrade was a success in terms of providing a lighter trigger with adjustability for individual preference.. For that reason I'd give it a thumbs up. However, it is still a Remington trigger....nothing special. I question if the $80 is worth it, but I do like the 870's sabot trigger much better now and will probably do a Timney upgrade to my 760. I will hold off on spending the $80 until after the Holidays.

However, you 870 owners may be able to pick up a lighter sear spring from a gunsmith. I may google this to see if they are available. If so, I will post it for you. Simply pull the trigger by punching out the Trigger Assembly pins from left to right. Pull the Trigger Plate Bushing (to the right) which allows the sear spring to extend or stretch out, so you can pull out the sear spring and replace it with a lighter spring. It's that simple to replace. Performing the entire Timney upgrade is a little more complicated, but not all that much...because you are using Timney's matched set of sear and slightly shorter sear spring.

Thumbs up, but an expensive trigger upgrade for what you get.

[garyb]

I looked into getting a lighter sear spring and they are available from www.barnesgunparts.com (http://www.barnesgunparts.com)
www.barnesgunparts.com/remington11008701187-.html (http://www.barnesgunparts.com/remington11008701187-.html)

The lighter sear spring is only $9.99 + shipping ($5) and will cut your trigger pull by 50% according to the dealer. Stock Rem triggers are between 4-5lbs according to the dealer. That proved out correct by my measurements. If we can get the trigger down to 2 to 2.5 lbs, that would be a major improvement for $9.99...vs Timney upgrade at $80. I ordered the sear spring they have listed for the 760 (same price as the 870 and probably the same light spring).
Changing out the sear spring is a very simple thing to do. Hope this helps you Remington guys. Good luck!

[garyb]

I did the trigger upgrade from Barnes gun parts this morning. (Skipped a 15 degree muzzleloader deer hunt this morning). The sear spring was about $10. It dropped the 760 trigger from 4 lbs to 2.0 lbs 12 oz. Not as much as a change as I had hoped for. I wanted to get it under 2 lbs. However, for $10 it was not too bad and I can feel the improvement. I think I will leave things alone now. I don't really use the 760 much now that I have a 300 win mag barrel on my TC Encore. I've had the 300 barrel scoped with a Leopold for the past 2 years and have not even shot it.


Anyway, that concludes my Rem 870 and 760 trigger upgrades.

[muggsy]

Just to let you know, there is venison in old Muggsy's freezer. Took a nice mature doe at 50 yards with my 870 Remington using Remington Copper Solids out of a Hastings cantilever rifled barrel with a Leopold 1X4 Vari-X II scope. One shot and done. That's deer #28 for those of you keeping score.

[garyb]

Congrats! Our archery and regular gun seasons have ended here. Muzzleloading season started Monday. I passed a 4 pointer on Monday and at last light on Tuesday I passed 5 doe. I've put 5 in the freezer this year (between archery and gun season), so I am being very picky until there are 2 days left. Then I may take another doe to split up for the kids in Fl. We can take a buck and doe with the gun and bow. In addition we get 2 doe management permits. You can also have someone sign over 2 doe tags to you a season. That's a potential for 8 deer in a season. Too much for us.