I'm expected to trust my life to this? (A Kahr magazine rant)

[GenericUsername]

Hi all,

Decided to join the forum tonight after a fairly frustrating day with my Kahr. Am I expecting too much or are Kahr mags really that terrible?

A little background -- I bought a Kahr CM9 in late Octoberafter doing tons of research. I bought it to complement my Glock 27 as it is considerably thinner and much nicer to carry. I've shot several hundred rounds through it and the pistol itself is more than I could ask of such a tiny gun. It's fairly accurate, has had no malfunctions even during the break-in period and I even want a second CM9 at some point.

Now, onto the magazines... My CM9 obviously came with the single 6-round magazine. It seemed to operate fine; it fed rounds fine and locked back on the last round every time. I decided to pick up a 7-round magazine as I was planning to carry the Kahr and wanted a backup magazine. The first thing I noticed was that the 7-round magazine rarely (if ever) locked back on the last round. I assumed the spring was old, needed replacing and I moved on. The next day I bought an additional 7-round magazine from the same store. This one also rarely (if ever) locked back on the last round. I was a bit flustered but they still seemed to feed fine so I didn't worry too much. It was the same day that I noticed one of the 7-round magazines had broken the front skirt of its follower. I was a bit pissed as I'd literally owned the magazine for under an hour but Jay from Kahr support was able to provide me with a new follower no questions asked. At this point I assumed I needed two new magazine springs and I'd be set.

Fast forward to today -- I bought two more 7-rounders (specifically marketed for the CW9 as they did not have the grip extension base). I got home and tested them out on my CM9 and once again noticed that they, like my other 7-rounders, refused to lock on an empty magazine. It seems a bit unlucky to get four new magazines that will not hold the slide on an empty magazine and I was starting to suspect that my slide was messed up... yet my 6-round mag works every time. I decided to take the carry ammo out of my 6-rounder so that I could compare its spring to the 7-rounder springs and I discover the 6-rounder's follower was broken!!! I've been carrying this magazine in my carry weapon since I'd last shot this pistol last Friday! It hasn't been shot since and has been literally sitting, loaded, in the CM9! What gives?! It broke without being near the feed ramp (which I've seen as the culprit for .40S&W mag follower breaking). I am a bit upset (as you can probably tell) but I'm conflicted. I love the CM9; it's everything I want in a pistol but the magazines, beyond being a weak point, may result in me moving onto a pistol that has magazines less prone to breaking.

Thanks for listening to my rant. I realize Kahr has been around for quite a while but I'm honestly surprised they're still so popular given their magazine issues. I'm sure someone will reply commenting on putting 9 billion rounds through their CM9 without any follower issues (not that I have to believe them :D) but this occurrence is common enough that it's turning people away. Come on Kahr, get it together! The notorious weakpoint of these guns are the magazines and if they'd stop half-assing them then they would sell so many more.

[Longitude Zero]

How about quit carping and contact Kahr CS. I did not read where you did that in your thread. Frankly they are selling every one they make right now.

Contact CS and then let us know how you feel.

[GenericUsername]

How about quit carping and contact Kahr CS. I did not read where you did that in your thread. Frankly they are selling every one they make right now.

Contact CS and then let us know how you feel.

As I've said, I had to contact Jay about my first broken follower. I plan on sending an e-mail again Sunday. Maybe this time he'll send me a dozen or so followers just to make sure I have enough for the next few months.

I made this thread to see if I was expecting too much from my Kahr. I've owned this gun for ~1 month and already have functional issues with 4 magazines and broken followers on two. I hate to bring up the G word but I've owned Glocks for several years now and haven't had the slightest issue.

[Longitude Zero]

Glocks have much looser aka open tolerances. They are really nothing more than parts bin guns that have monstrous tolerances. And for what they are that is fine. Glocks are definitely not finely tuned weapons like Kahrs are. I too own several Glocks. Kahrs are much more carefully designed and made. Kahr tolerances are much tighter and thus problems crop a bit more often than with parts barrel guns like Glocks.

I hope it is not the case with you but when I see a first post by a brand new poster is a complaint my first inclination is the T-word.

Welcome to the forum.

[GenericUsername]

I hope it is not the case with you but when I see a first post by a brand new poster is a complaint my first inclination is the T-word.


Understandable, I've witnessed a fair amount of trolling in my day. While I know this isn't definitive, here's a picture I took last night comparing the width of my Kahr CM9 and my Glock 27 to someone that was trying to decide between the two. I was trying to sway him towards the Kahr due to its reduced width.

http://i.imgur.com/t5IOn1M.jpg?1


Glocks have much looser aka open tolerances. They are really nothing more than parts bin guns that have monstrous tolerances. And for what they are that is fine. Glocks are definitely not finely tuned weapons like Kahrs are. I too own several Glocks. Kahrs are much more carefully designed and made. Kahr tolerances are much tighter and thus problems crop a bit more often than with parts barrel guns like Glocks.


Sorry, I should have been more specific. I think, all things held equal, the Kahr and the Glock are equally reliable... however, Glock magazines are built like tanks while my Kahr magazines don't even show consistent weld marks. I am in love with my Kahr pistol but the magazines are an entirely different story.

[chrish]

Not suggesting you don't have a problem. But in all the years I lurked here and the last few years as an active member, can't say that I've seen more than a handful of complaints about mags, followers, etc. I myself am not particularly fond of the way they tend to loose that top round so easily, but just the nature of the single stack and the Kahr design I suppose. There is a DIY fix for that, but just hasn't been worth it for me. I cope w/ it and use a mag carrier. Doesn't impact my ability to trust it or carry it, the mag is already in it.

But, compared to the # of Kahrs out there, have to call this a minor issue as a whole. I know that doesn't make you feel any better, just sayin'

Stay on CS and get to a point where you have a batch of mags that work for you. If followers keep breaking, a trip back to Kahr (for the gun) may be in order at that point.

FWIW, I trust my Kahr's completely, but I wouldn't trust ANY gun until I had hundreds of flawless rounds thru it. Glock or otherwise.

[GenericUsername]

Not suggesting you don't have a problem. But in all the years I lurked here and the last few years as an active member, can't say that I've seen more than a handful of complaints about mags, followers, etc. I myself am not particularly fond of the way they tend to loose that top round so easily, but just the nature of the single stack and the Kahr design I suppose. There is a DIY fix for that, but just hasn't been worth it for me. I cope w/ it and use a mag carrier. Doesn't impact my ability to trust it or carry it, the mag is already in it.

But, compared to the # of Kahrs out there, have to call this a minor issue as a whole. I know that doesn't make you feel any better, just sayin'

Stay on CS and get to a point where you have a batch of mags that work for you. If followers keep breaking, a trip back to Kahr (for the gun) may be in order at that point.

FWIW, I trust my Kahr's completely, but I wouldn't trust ANY gun until I had hundreds of flawless rounds thru it. Glock or otherwise.

Thanks for your reply. Oddly enough I've been pocket carrying two 7-round magazines while carrying my CM9 and never had rounds pop out of the magazines. I really want to love this gun but to love this gun I have to trust it in every regard (including mags). I've shot ~500 rounds through this gun with no FTEs or FTFs and the pistol itself seems very solid but I hate having to be paranoid about mag issues.

[Bawanna]

Kahr may want the gun back. The feed ramp must be hitting the follower.

I suspect your perfect running 6 rounder broke while shooting and you didn't notice it.

The magazine while possibly a weak link is not the real issue. Its a clearance issue. We see it more frequently on 40's.
Kahr will make it right given the chance.

[RRP]

I made this thread to see if I was expecting too much from my Kahr.

No, it's not too much to expect that your new pistol will function reliably. Contact Jay at Kahr. He will ask you to return the gun and will be willing to pay shipping at your request. Let him know how many new magazines you purchased and how many followers have broken, so he can assess the severity of the problem. Kahr will make it right.

The problem you describe is well documented. It is a known problem, and as Bawanna indicates, it's not a mag problem, although it presents that way. Your mag followers are contacting the bottom of the feed-ramp. The nose of the follower breaks from the impact. The magazine will still feed rounds, but with the slide-lock actuator severed from the follower, your slide no longer locks open on the last round. So, the two issues you report, (failure to lock on the last round, and the broken followers) are both caused by the same problem with the feed-ramp. When resolved by Kahr, owners report that their pistols are reliable.

The third issue you report, rounds falling out of the mag when pocket carried, is also common. You'll notice that the top round does not lie parallel to the rest of the stack. It is pointing upward at a steeper angle than the rest. There just isn't enough friction to keep the top round in place as the mag moves around in your pocket. This is exacerbated if you carry keys in the same pocket. Tap the rear spline of the magazine to seat the cartridges all the way back. That will help some, but not eliminate the problem. You may decide to get a mag holder, or you may eventually catch yourself subconsciously re-seating the top round every time you put your hand in your pocket.

Stick with it. You'll come to love this little pistol.

Edited to add: I just learned in another thread (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=21695) that Jay no longer works in Customer Service. You can phone CS and take a chance with the rep who answers, or you can email them as suggested in Jay's response.

[codegeek]

Kahr may want the gun back. The feed ramp must be hitting the follower.

I suspect your perfect running 6 rounder broke while shooting and you didn't notice it.

The magazine while possibly a weak link is not the real issue. Its a clearance issue. We see it more frequently on 40's.
Kahr will make it right given the chance.

This was my experience as well. A rampectomy at Kahr and all will be well. Mention the slide lock issue and I am confident they will make it right.

Sent from my GT-P6210 using Tapatalk 4

[garyb]

I have not had one single problem with my PM40, but I do empathize with the folks having these repeat problems with their Kahrs. We all read about this far too frequently and it is frustrating for new Kahr owners AND for us folks who do rely on Kahr. I love mine, but they have certainly developed a bad reputation because of this problem. They just need to look into it and fix it.

[GenericUsername]

Thanks again for all of the insight everyone. I tried some experimenting to determine if the ramp is blocking the follower but something to keep in mind: The latest follower to break was in the 6-rounder which locks back everytime -- as in it can reliably "reach" as far as it needs to in order to lock the slide.

To test the hypothesis I took the broken follower from the 6-rounder and put it in one of the 7-rounders. I'm guessing that if the feed ramp is in fact the culprit that this combination should allow the pistol to lock back on an empty magazine. Tried it a few times and could not get it to lock back. It may be worth noting that when you attempt to rack the slide on an empty magazine that you can feel the slide trying to lock back but the magazine (springs) seems to not have enough force to push the lock far enough into the recess on the slide.

I went out to dissect each of my 7-round mags to inspect the springs and found a good bit of variation between them: http://i.imgur.com/4xii1yb.jpg?1 (Warning: LARGE image!) The four springs on the left are all from "9-7" magazines and the spring farthest right is from the "9-6" magazine that came with the pistol. As you can tell, the 6-rounder springs is almost as large as many of the 7-rounders which suggests to me the 7-roudners may be a bit old. I think I'm going to buy some Wolff +5% springs to see if that helps.

Regarding the ramp hitting followers -- I visually inspect the followers from the two 7-rounders on the right that have been used just as much as my 6-rounder (at least after one had its follower replaced previously) and there's no sign of scuffing or marks from the ramp (though I'm not sure if it's be obvious). They look identical to the followers from the other (unused) 7-rounders I purchased yesterday.

Like I said, the gun has yet to let me down, not a single FTF or FTE even with 115 gr WWB and it seems to handle my SD rounds without a hitch so I'm giving up on the Kahr just yet but hopefully I can get these bugs figured out.

[muggsy]

Hi all,

Decided to join the forum tonight after a fairly frustrating day with my Kahr. Am I expecting too much or are Kahr mags really that terrible?

A little background -- I bought a Kahr CM9 in late Octoberafter doing tons of research. I bought it to complement my Glock 27 as it is considerably thinner and much nicer to carry. I've shot several hundred rounds through it and the pistol itself is more than I could ask of such a tiny gun. It's fairly accurate, has had no malfunctions even during the break-in period and I even want a second CM9 at some point.

Now, onto the magazines... My CM9 obviously came with the single 6-round magazine. It seemed to operate fine; it fed rounds fine and locked back on the last round every time. I decided to pick up a 7-round magazine as I was planning to carry the Kahr and wanted a backup magazine. The first thing I noticed was that the 7-round magazine rarely (if ever) locked back on the last round. I assumed the spring was old, needed replacing and I moved on. The next day I bought an additional 7-round magazine from the same store. This one also rarely (if ever) locked back on the last round. I was a bit flustered but they still seemed to feed fine so I didn't worry too much. It was the same day that I noticed one of the 7-round magazines had broken the front skirt of its follower. I was a bit pissed as I'd literally owned the magazine for under an hour but Jay from Kahr support was able to provide me with a new follower no questions asked. At this point I assumed I needed two new magazine springs and I'd be set.

Fast forward to today -- I bought two more 7-rounders (specifically marketed for the CW9 as they did not have the grip extension base). I got home and tested them out on my CM9 and once again noticed that they, like my other 7-rounders, refused to lock on an empty magazine. It seems a bit unlucky to get four new magazines that will not hold the slide on an empty magazine and I was starting to suspect that my slide was messed up... yet my 6-round mag works every time. I decided to take the carry ammo out of my 6-rounder so that I could compare its spring to the 7-rounder springs and I discover the 6-rounder's follower was broken!!! I've been carrying this magazine in my carry weapon since I'd last shot this pistol last Friday! It hasn't been shot since and has been literally sitting, loaded, in the CM9! What gives?! It broke without being near the feed ramp (which I've seen as the culprit for .40S&W mag follower breaking). I am a bit upset (as you can probably tell) but I'm conflicted. I love the CM9; it's everything I want in a pistol but the magazines, beyond being a weak point, may result in me moving onto a pistol that has magazines less prone to breaking.

Thanks for listening to my rant. I realize Kahr has been around for quite a while but I'm honestly surprised they're still so popular given their magazine issues. I'm sure someone will reply commenting on putting 9 billion rounds through their CM9 without any follower issues (not that I have to believe them :D) but this occurrence is common enough that it's turning people away. Come on Kahr, get it together! The notorious weakpoint of these guns are the magazines and if they'd stop half-assing them then they would sell so many more.

I don't know why you feel that you can't trust your life to your Kahr pistol just because the slide doesn't lock back on the last round, or why you keep buying 7 round mags when they don't work in your gun. If you can't get the job done with 13 rounds I doubt that a 14th round will save you. Having said that, let's examine the problem.

In order for the slide to lock back the magazine follower has to contact the slide lock and the magazine spring has to over come the tension of the slide lock spring. Is your slide lock properly installed? Have you tried adjusting the tension on the slide lock spring. If your followers are breaking you should send the gun back to Kahr to have the barrel ramp modified. Your gun came with a five year warranty. Quit complaining and do something constructive to have the problem corrected.

[GenericUsername]

I don't know why you feel that you can't trust your life to your Kahr pistol just because the slide doesn't lock back on the last round, or why you keep buying 7 round mags when they don't work in your gun. If you can't get the job done with 13 rounds I doubt that a 14th round will save you. Having said that, let's examine the problem.


My concern with the lack of locking back is the requirement of using the slide release to charge the gun. If the slide reliably locks back then one simply needs to: drop the empty mag, insert a loaded one, hit the slide release and you're set. If the slide does not reliably lock back then you have to: pull the trigger a few times to hear the firing pin clicking, realize it's empty, drop the mag, pull the slide back manually, lock it with the slide release, insert a loaded magazine, then activate the slide release. That's adding several needless steps that I don't want to be performing during an adrenaline dump in a life or death situation.



In order for the slide to lock back the magazine follower has to contact the slide lock and the magazine spring has to over come the tension of the slide lock spring. Is your slide lock properly installed? Have you tried adjusting the tension on the slide lock spring. If your followers are breaking you should send the gun back to Kahr to have the barrel ramp modified. Your gun came with a five year warranty. Quit complaining and do something constructive to have the problem corrected.

My slide lock is working properly. I haven't thought to adjust the slide lock spring; I'll look into that.

[muggsy]

Both of the Kahr that I own can be loaded using the slingshot method. Both of the Kahr I own lock back after the last round. See the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjLbFOw8sow

[garyb]

Every Kahr that I own can be loaded using the slingshot method. See the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjLbFOw8sow

Agree Muggsy. My PM will function fine with slingshot or slide release. I am grateful for that, because I hear some have difficulties.

[GenericUsername]

Both of the Kahr that I own can be loaded using the slingshot method. Both of the Kahr I own lock back after the last round. See the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjLbFOw8sow

Thanks for sharing. Looks like I need to improve my technique. :)

[codegeek]

My followers showed no signs of damage before breaking. Lock your slide back. Push the barrell as far back as it will go. Insert a magazine and see if the barrell moves.

Sent from my GT-P6210 using Tapatalk 4

[dkelly27]

I can slingshot the slide on my CW9.

[GenericUsername]

My followers showed no signs of damage before breaking. Lock your slide back. Push the barrell as far back as it will go. Insert a magazine and see if the barrell moves.

Sent from my GT-P6210 using Tapatalk 4

Looks like you're onto something. It's pretty subtle movement but it's definitely there and happens with multiple magazines. Looks like my Kahr might be making a trip. :(

[garyb]

Yes the barrel moves ever so slightly...a barely noticeable flinch when the mag clicks in, but what does that mean? I have not broken any followers nor had any problems.

[chrish]

Always amazed at the 'gunsmith' types on this forum. You guys really know your stuff! I'm still learning. Very interesting discussion and gotta think that this is the OPs problem. Hopefully a trip back to the mothership can resolve it.

[GenericUsername]

So a quick update on the hold open issue...

I gave the magazines I purchased a nice cleaning (got all of the gunk out of the inside) and surprisingly they seem to work fine now. I'm about to go test them out at the range. Interestingly, the other two magazines still do not have the ability to hold the slide open. I went and purchased a T6 screwdriver to try to play with the slide lock spring and that didn't seem to do anything. I suspected it might be spring related so I tried a spring from one of the working 7-rounders and even *that* didn't fix it. I looked at them a little closer and it appears the followers on the two mags I purchased when I got the gun simply do not rise up high enough. I know it sounds weird but here's a picture:

http://i.imgur.com/NklHGll.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/nbbMlQh.jpg?1

Sorry for the blurriness. The non-working mag is on the left in both photos. When I get back from the range I'm to experiment with swapping followers and see if I can narrow down specifically what the issue is.

[garyb]

I see what you are saying with the left mag's follower....and could be part of the problem. Cleaning the mags and waxing inside and out with good wood floor paste wax will make them slick. Some guys use silicone, which probably works well too.

[GenericUsername]

Just got back from the range. Put 150 rounds through it and had my first two malfunctions! One of the two new magazines did the second round nose-dive thing I've seen mentioned on the forum. It seems the new magazines also lost their ability to hold the slide open after putting a full seven rounds through them. Interestingly the only 7-rounder that didn't give me problems of any sort was the one with the broken follower! I unfortunately remain on the fence regarding Kahr magazine quality. The only good thing that happened is that none of the followers broke. :D

[garyb]

So you sending it back?

[GenericUsername]

Not sure yet... I was shooting basically two rounds per mag today since I was interested in testing whether locking back was working correctly or not. I suspect that would put some pretty severe abuse on the followers if the ramp is in fact contacting it but none of them broke.

I also watched some youtube videos and found the right way to adjust the slide lock spring and after turning it counter-clockwise half a turn four of the five mags were able to lock back. I did some experimenting with mixing and matching parts among the mags and now all five (even that gimpy one from earlier) lock back. I'm still going to contact CS about the broken follower but I am happy with my Kahr for the first time this weekend. :biggrin1:

[ParabellumJ]

My advice is to send the gun back to Kahr on their dime along with all of your magazines. Ask then to swap out the 7 rounders for some six round mags and to trim that feed ramp up. After that I doubt you will have the problem again. I had the same problems and Kahr made it right.

[codegeek]

Took me 10 days from start to finish to get my CM9 back. The barrell hitting the follower in just the right spot to break it is pretty random. Send it back. You deserve a perfect weapon.

Sent from my GT-P6210 using Tapatalk 4

[O'Dell]

I'll start by saying maybe I've been lucky, but I've never had a mag problem with any of the seven Kahrs I've owned and only one with the dozens and dozens of other pistols over 45 years. It might also be that I NEVER, EVER use an extended magazine in any pistol. I still use 7 rounders in my 1911's because that's the way JMB designed them.

The one exception was my Kimber. I don't understand why Kimber includes a sub-standard mag with their $1000+ pistols, especially since they do make some good ones. Case in point, the supplied mag would not go completely into battery on the first round unless it was loaded with five rounds or less. I tossed it and bought two KemPro-Tech mags and all has been perfect ever since with the full seven.

Regarding Sling-shotting vs using the slide release. I have used the sling-shot method on ever pistol I've ever owned, including the seven Kahrs, with nary a problem. I think the main problem here is execution!

[yqtszhj]

The 7 and 8 round mags in the CM9 and PM9 aren't the best. They can be made to work relatively easy but sometimes it takes a bit of tweaking. Harry Lee had a good post on that which I believe is a sticky now.

I have an 8 round mag that I got to work 100% in the CM9 with minor adjustments. For some reason that I can't explain each mag works pretty well in the gun it was made for but using an extended mag is sometimes hit and miss.

[RRP]

Regarding Sling-shotting vs using the slide release. I have used the sling-shot method on ever pistol I've ever owned, including the seven Kahrs, with nary a problem. I think the main problem here is execution!

I absolutely agree.

It's easier for Kahr to recommend using the slide-lock release than to train every gun owner.

[GenericUsername]

Regarding Sling-shotting vs using the slide release. I have used the sling-shot method on ever pistol I've ever owned, including the seven Kahrs, with nary a problem. I think the main problem here is execution!

You're right -- when I was at the range I tried sling-shotting with all five of the mags and they all worked. I think being told a priori by Kahr that it's not recommended might have had me riding the slide excessively and generally not expecting it to work.

[GenericUsername]

The 7 and 8 round mags in the CM9 and PM9 aren't the best. They can be made to work relatively easy but sometimes it takes a bit of tweaking. Harry Lee had a good post on that which I believe is a sticky now.

I have an 8 round mag that I got to work 100% in the CM9 with minor adjustments. For some reason that I can't explain each mag works pretty well in the gun it was made for but using an extended mag is sometimes hit and miss.

Personally I wouldn't consider the 7-rounders to be extended magazines as they are standard with the CW7. If it were an aftermarket 7-rounder then I'd understand but I don't see this as any different than using a Glock 19 (13 round) magazine in a Glock 26 (normally 10 rounds) which people have been doing for decades. I do see what you're saying though. Looks like I need to find some more 6-rounders as well.

[O'Dell]

Personally I wouldn't consider the 7-rounders to be extended magazines as they are standard with the CW7. If it were an aftermarket 7-rounder then I'd understand but I don't see this as any different than using a Glock 19 (13 round) magazine in a Glock 26 (normally 10 rounds) which people have been doing for decades. I do see what you're saying though. Looks like I need to find some more 6-rounders as well.

When I got my PM9, I ordered two extra 6 round mags. I gave away the 7 rounder to a forum member, who was kind enough to make me a leather, six round mag carrier in return. Thanks, Bear!

[DanTana]

The magazine is the heart of the gun and needs to work flawlessly at all times, with no modifications needed.

[JERRY]

when I owned the steel K9 and MK9 way back yon I never ever heard of anybody complaining about the Kahr except for the price. now that I have the polymer guns it seems to be common place. while the polymer guns seems to need a whole lot more break-in ammo to run correctly, the magazines seems to be inept. I do not know if the magazines for the steel guns are different that they are for the polymer guns, or if there is a different maker than there was 10 or so years ago.... all I know is that kahr needs to find a competent magazine designer. im sure theyre being made to spec, but the design stinks for some reason. I rather blame the magazine for all these problems than say the gun itself is poorly designed being a hit or miss on quality.

[chrish]

I agree Jerry.


You'd also think with all the griping about Kahr mags that goes on, that a company that makes quality mags like MecGar for example, would jump on the opportunity to make a high quality, solid, no welded mag for them. ProMag makes or used to make some aftermarket Kahr mags, but they really were crap.

[JERRY]

I agree Jerry.


You'd also think with all the griping about Kahr mags that goes on, that a company that makes quality mags like MecGar for example, would jump on the opportunity to make a high quality, solid, no welded mag for them. ProMag makes or used to make some aftermarket Kahr mags, but they really were crap.

I think they work directly for kahr now. :p:p:rolleyes:

[JimC]

The magazine is the heart of the gun and needs to work flawlessly at all times, with no modifications needed.

You are EXACTLY right.

With NO modifications is the key phrase.

Kahr mags, for the smaller pistols anyway, are the albatross around their, Kahr, necks.

None of my 5 mags are modified in any way but I can't thrust them not to fail when I need them the most. That's why my PM9 now resides in my safe.

I would love to see Mec-Gar get into making mags for Kahr pistols.

[chrish]

I think they work directly for kahr now. :p:p:rolleyes:


That's hysterical!



You are EXACTLY right.

With NO modifications is the key phrase.

Kahr mags, for the smaller pistols anyway, are the albatross around their, Kahr, necks.

None of my 5 mags are modified in any way but I can't thrust them not to fail when I need them the most. That's why my PM9 now resides in my safe.

I would love to see Mec-Gar get into making mags for Kahr pistols.



I understand everybody's concern. I however have never had a single problem w/ any of my Kahr mags, or the guns either. I had an anal retentive moment early on w/ my PM9 years and years back that I wanted the mags to drop free, sent it back and had Kahr futz w/ it to make that happen, but since then I don't much care about that issue particularly. My P9 and TP9 have been flawless. 3 mags for my P9 and 4 for my TP9. All 7 mags I currently own nor any of the half dozen I had w/ my PM9 (sold) ever caused me a minutes problem feeding or nose diving. My only nose-dive problems were with riding the slide.


So I'm a lucky one I guess. But I cannot discount all the other issues and complaints folks post about. Got to be something to it at some level. It would be really nice to see MecGar get on it.

[wyntrout]

I think the problem is mainly with the magazine well being polymer and having too much "slop". It isn't steel with closer tolerances, but a plastic that must allow for temperature changes that cause expansion and contraction. There's enough slop that you can grip the the magazine base and move the top of the magazine enough to prevent proper operation. Then there's that offset feed ramp that seems to be too steep, so that rounds jam there instead of going up the ramp.
Early on with my new P380 I tried to alter the feed ramp with a DLT and a diamond bit. Yikes! It was like a red hot knife into butter. I had to really put some elbow grease into straightening that out with the DLT, sandpaper, and small round files. I thought I was going to have to buy a new barrel, but I got the ramp smoothed out and working well again! That passed inspection at Kahr... to my surprise... my "handiwork".:rolleyes:

Wynn:)

[JERRY]

Glocks have much looser aka open tolerances. They are really nothing more than parts bin guns that have monstrous tolerances. And for what they are that is fine. Glocks are definitely not finely tuned weapons like Kahrs are. I too own several Glocks. Kahrs are much more carefully designed and made. Kahr tolerances are much tighter and thus problems crop a bit more often than with parts barrel guns like Glocks.

I hope it is not the case with you but when I see a first post by a brand new poster is a complaint my first inclination is the T-word.

Welcome to the forum.


I think the problem is mainly with the magazine well being polymer and having too much "slop". It isn't steel with closer tolerances, but a plastic that must allow for temperature changes that cause expansion and contraction. There's enough slop that you can grip the the magazine base and move the top of the magazine enough to prevent proper operation. Then there's that offset feed ramp that seems to be too steep, so that rounds jam there instead of going up the ramp.
Early on with my new P380 I tried to alter the feed ramp with a DLT and a diamond bit. Yikes! It was like a red hot knife into butter. I had to really put some elbow grease into straightening that out with the DLT, sandpaper, and small round files. I thought I was going to have to buy a new barrel, but I got the ramp smoothed out and working well again! That passed inspection at Kahr... to my surprise... my "handiwork".:rolleyes:

Wynn:)

Wynn, two posters using Kahr's tight tolerances for then against them for the same issue, which one is it? im still siding with magazine design. get Wilson combat to make them. id gladly pay $40 for a magazine that doesn't crack, doesn't need follower filing or dremel tooling, doesn't break with normal use, or need any other gunsmithing in order to work correctly. heres a novel idea, use steel followers instead of the crap polymer versions that keep breaking and need "reworking" to make them work correctly.

[wyntrout]

The polymer followers ARE part of the problem. I've never been a fan of those, either.

The whole magazine needs redesign. The feed lips don't grip the top round securely for long and the top round migrates forward where it's too often tipped over instead of pushed UP the ramp. The follower needs to be more supportive of the top round and help it go UP, instead of straight out or DOWN.

Wynn:)

[JERRY]

The polymer followers ARE part of the problem. I've never been a fan of those, either.

The whole magazine needs redesign. The feed lips don't grip the top round securely for long and the top round migrates forward where it's too often tipped over instead of pushed UP the ramp. The follower needs to be more supportive of the top round and help it go UP, instead of straight out or DOWN.

Wynn:)

can ya be a pall and pass this on to Kahr?

[muggsy]

When Kahr redesigns their magazines and all of you run out to buy the new ones, please send your old magazines to old Muggsy. I'm sure that they'll work just fine in my CM9. :)

[chrish]

When Kahr redesigns their magazines and all of you run out to buy the new ones, please send your old magazines to old Muggsy. I'm sure that they'll work just fine in my CM9. :)



If MecGar starts making 8rd mags for my TP9, that not only work reliably (as I said, my mags and guns have been 100% reliable) and also hold that top round in and allow sling-shot on a full mag...the proverbial "mags will be in the mail" to you! But don't hold your breath :D


After I get that first round or two out of the way, I can ride my slide all day long and chamber a round. It's a FULL (tight) mag that compounds the sling-shot problem.


I don't have any more of a gripe about my mags than I do on other guns that have a bit of a gritty, rough trigger, or guns that a finish hasn't held up as well as the next. It's just an observation. Nobody makes a perfect product. All I was doing was acknowledging that some folks have a more serious issue than the few _known_ issues w/ Kahr mags that many gripe about from time to time. I love my Kahrs and if push came to shove, the last gun to leave my possession would be my TP9. No question.