A single stack? vs higher capacity vs mutiple mags

[KBKahr]

http://personalliberty.com/2013/12/09/lessons-learned-at-a-convenience-store/

Lots of room for improvement in his awareness and preparedness but it should help remind everyone to stay vigilant!

[jocko]

[QUOTE=KBKahr;277423]http://personalliberty.com/2013/12/09/lessons-learned-at-a-convenience-store/

Lots of room for improvement in his awareness and preparedness but it should help remind everyone to stay vigilant![/QUOT


Nice article but the fella never said what happened to the 10 juvenils outside the business. Evidently he did not have to pull his PM40, so IMO he had enough rounds.

Situation awareness played a big part with this guys safety to. Betteroff stayinginside the busness than going back outside.:Amflag2: Just sayin

[ltxi]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.....ten kids on bicycles--three shots max would have handled problem

[ripley16]

Lesson learned... sometimes six rounds is six more than you need, as in this case. What ifs can escalate to needing a nuclear weapon. Carry what you're good with. The chances of needing more than a couple rounds defending yourself are astronomical.

[jocko]

I would think most all BG want nuttin to do with a guy with a gun, so more than likely if one had to pull his gun, that would be enough FOR MOST.

[dkmatthews]

If drawing a gun is enough, that would advocate for open carry and eliminate the need to unholster.

Sent from my SGH-T999L using Tapatalk

[jeepster09]

I know in a lot of the Steven Segal movies he has only had to pick one guy to shoot to scare away the rest.....think about it....if you were bad guy and your buddy got shot, would you want to be next? Steven knows...:59:

[Planedude]

This story and ones like it always make me think of a story from Michael de Bethencourt on snubtraining .com.
Cut and pasted from here: http://snubtraining.com/blog/?cat=288

Dear Shane:

I hope this note finds you well.
Thank you for the great question.
If I may restate and paraphrase it, you’re asking: “Do I believe that the snubby possess a sufficient round count to be practical against multiple attackers?”...

... Officer Z is in the car doing paperwork. He has a six-shot revolver in his waist band and a vest under his uniform. Four gang bangers come up on each corner of the car. By available accounts there was one pistol per bad guy. The first bad guy to get to the car sticks his gun in the open window and starts pulling the trigger. As the bad guy’s hand is coming into the window Officer Z sees what’s coming and shoves his gun out the window, forearm passing forearm and starts pulling his trigger. So how do you think this is going to finish up – One guy with six-rounds vs. four guys with six to sixty (?) rounds? You have zero seconds. Times up. Let’s pause to ask you a question. BEFORE Officer Z started pulling the trigger how many bad guys was he facing? Four? One? You tell me. 1/100 of a second after he started pulling the trigger, how many bad guys was he facing? I’ll tell you. ZERO. They came in for an ambush. They screwed off at Mach-3 when it became a gunfight, and they didn’t sign up for no gunfight. So …
Since I know something about both Officers X and Z (I worked with both of them years ago) I can say that for them a low round count weapon can be a viable weapon against multiple attackers …

Paste done, read it all at the link if you like.

This is a fun but vivid description of a basic human truth, bad guys want easy pickings and the really don't want to get shot instead.
One could find one's self facing the drugged, the terminally stupid or sadly the (say Sandy Hook type) crazy who will not be spooked off by the ideal of being shot. In fact such folks may not stop just because they are shot, poorly...
High caps have a use and Cops carry them because when the latter type of folks need to be dealt with they will come running into that trouble. The common strong-arm robber is the trouble I feel most likely to run into in this life.
For that task I feel my P380 and a spare mag is plenty enough. If I did run across the latter though, at least I'd be armed with a reliable piece that I shoot very well.
In the end you have to be real about the gun and equipment you will actually carry every day and everywhere.

[CB3]

If I am committed to convenience and always want to be armed, I'd drop a NAA Black Widow in my pocket and call it good. I'm never really going to get in a gunfight, anyway, statistically. There will likely be only one aggressor, or at least only one armed with a gun. The mere fact of my resistance with any gun will cause almost all bad guys to immediately cease their attack and flee without me having to fire a shot. The barrel of a .22 pointed at his face will look to him like a .44 magnum. So many people are killed every year by .22s. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

However, if I am committed to always being as prepared as possible for a worst case scenario, despite the inconvenience, then I will find a way to carry a gun of sufficient caliber and capacity to give me the upper hand, with training and practice, in more lethal situations.

Is a loaded TP9 (9 rounds of 9MM) much more difficult to conceal than a smaller Kahr? No. More difficult to shoot than a smaller Kahr or a 5-shot snubby? No. Can it solve any problem that could be solved with a snub? Yes, except for multiple shots from within a pocket.

I went from a P40 to a TP9 for the extra capacity with little increase in size or weight. One day I realized that I had never really committed to trying to carry a larger, heavier, double stack pistol. I had just assumed it would be too inconvenient.

It isn't. I now carry a Beretta PX4 9MM (17+1) and a backup 20-round mag, and it is not inconvenient or uncomfortable. It is very comforting. There are times when because of clothing considerations I drop back to the TP9, but they are rare, and I always carry a spare mag.

"It really bothered me after fighting for my life with my concealed handgun that I had nine extra rounds," said no one, ever.

I appreciate that not everyone has the commitment, the body type or the ability to conceal a high capacity double stack. That's OK. I just take issue with those who justify small calibers, small guns and small capacities on statistics rather than the realities of worst case situations.

I don't feel I have lost anything by carrying 38 rounds of 9MM, but now when I carry only 17 I feel less prepared.

Would/could I solve a problem with only a 5-shot snubby (my wife's gun) if I had to? I'd sure give it a heck of a try, without hesitation, and I wouldn't waste time wishing for something else. I just choose not to put myself in that situation.

[DanTana]

I give that story a huge FAIL for not finishing. What happened? Did the 10 kids all pummel him and his wife to death? Did he steal one of their bicycles and ride to the airport? I hate articles like that. Obviously, he wrote the story afterwards, but did they call the police to come and clear the area for him? Did the kids all decide to just leave, maybe they were waiting for the other guy who had their drugs, did their business and took off? I guess we'll never know.

[JohnR]

Street crime isn't war, the thugs aren't enemy combatants bent on taking our flag at the cost of their lives, they have no cause they're willing to die for and their commander won't keep sending them into battle against you till the last man is dead.

They're nothing but hyenas scavenging the city for scraps.

If you can pack a G17 with spare mags then go for it, but to me that's like always driving a Jeep Wrangler because you just never know when you might need to drive on the Rubicon Trail. It's a free (ish) country, carry (and ddrive) what you like. I like my MK9 and big American sedan.

[garyb]

:confused:????:confused: I guess I never considered how carrying a G17 was like driving a Wrangler. My wife and I have an 03 Black Jeep Wrangler Rubicon (Wrangler on Steroids). Just looks nice. We tow it as a dingy behind our Class A motor home when we snowbird to Florida a couple of the winter months. It tows nice and light. We simply happen to like cruising with the top down when we get there. At home, here in the north country, it makes a great winter vehicle and in the summer it is fun to drive with the top down. Never really thought about being ready for trail riding...although I did take it once. One of my buddies carries a glock AND drives a jeep. He must have recognized the correlation. Haha. ;)

[340pd]

Tom Gresham always mentions the fact that after a gunfight, nobody ever says they had too much ammo.
When traveling by car as this guy was, I opt for my P226 with two extra mags as my car gun.

[garyb]

Tom Gresham always mentions the fact that after a gunfight, nobody ever says they had too much ammo.
When traveling by car as this guy was, I opt for my P226 with two extra mags as my car gun.

Very good point on the ammo supply!

[b4uqzme]

I give that story a huge FAIL for not finishing. What happened? Did the 10 kids all pummel him and his wife to death? Did he steal one of their bicycles and ride to the airport? I hate articles like that. Obviously, he wrote the story afterwards, but did they call the police to come and clear the area for him? Did the kids all decide to just leave, maybe they were waiting for the other guy who had their drugs, did their business and took off? I guess we'll never know.

Agreed. The author yadda-yadda'd over the good part. :rolleyes:

[chrish]

I give that story a huge FAIL for not finishing. What happened? Did the 10 kids all pummel him and his wife to death? Did he steal one of their bicycles and ride to the airport? I hate articles like that. Obviously, he wrote the story afterwards, but did they call the police to come and clear the area for him? Did the kids all decide to just leave, maybe they were waiting for the other guy who had their drugs, did their business and took off? I guess we'll never know.


Agreed. The author yadda-yadda'd over the good part. :rolleyes:

Reminds me of a Brian Regan bit griping about people that write articles and use 'one thing led to another' and leave the middle of the story out. His bit (my memory is sketchy) is 'Hitler was denied entrance to art school as a child...one thing led to another...and the United States dropped two atomic bombs on Japan". Hysterical.

[muggsy]

Agreed. The author yadda-yadda'd over the good part. :rolleyes:

There's a Seinfeld moment in every story. :)

[JohnR]

There's a Seinfeld moment in every story. :)
Yes, and that's quite an achievement for a show about nothing. :D