PM9 Suddenly All Light Strikes! [Archive]

Fancygunz

12-09-2013, 10:40 PM

Hi,

I have shot hundreds (but less than 1000) of rounds through my PM9 with no issues. Today I met up at the range with someone who wanted to buy it from me, he had cash and we were ready to do the transfer. We decided to test fire it first......

and TEN SHOTS IN A ROW were all light strikes!! 3 brands of ammo, Blazer Brass, Remington and Winchester (white box). All 3 of these brands had worked before. Now, suddenly we pulled the trigger and no bang. We couldn't get it to fire at all and obviously I wasn't able to sell it.

I would like consider this some kind of ridiculously bad luck, and I think I'm out of Kahr warranty. Is there anything I can do to fix it without sending it in and paying their out-of-warranty fees to repair it?

wyntrout

12-09-2013, 11:30 PM

Have you cleaned the striker channel... stripped the slide down and actually checked and cleaned the striker channel? Debris can build up in there and impede the striker's travel. Also, you might want to inspect the striker and see if it is broken. We've had maybe 3 reports of broken strikers in the last 4 years... the pin being broken off.

You can check the striker travel by removing the slide and pushing the rear of the striker forward while pushing in the safety block to allow the striker to move forward, but a full inspection of the striker train and "tunnel" should be made.

There are "stickies" in several of the sub-forums with pictures and instructions on stripping the slide:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=197

Wynn

TucsonMTB

12-09-2013, 11:41 PM

Clean the striker channel, especially if you have not been regularly spraying brake cleaner in the dedicated hole in the slide designed for this purpose.

This thread includes a discussion of the striker channel spray cleaning process.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1521&highlight=spray

You can try spraying now with a good fresh can that has lots of pressure at the same time capturing what blows out so that you know you have succeeded. If you need to be more thorough, here is a link to a thread on tearing down the slide.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=3295&highlight=strip+slide

Edited to add: I see Wynn finished typing more quickly than I did. Good job, sir.

jocko

12-10-2013, 05:22 AM

ripley16

12-10-2013, 06:42 AM

Ten lightstrikes out of the blue sounds like a broken striker. I'd take it out to inspect for a problem. If so, it's not too much money to fix. Do you dry fire a lot by any chance?

JimC

12-10-2013, 06:49 AM

1. Dirty striker channel
2. Broken striker

Both good reasons to become proficient in stripping the slide down to basic components to perform periodic inspections.

Ikeo74

12-10-2013, 12:07 PM

Did the buyer inspect the gun before the shoot? Then after the miss fires, did he offer to buy the gun at a greatly reduced price because of the missfires? If so he may have gummed up the action while you were not looking so he could get a steal. :eek:

JohnR

12-10-2013, 12:33 PM

Yup, I'd say clean it real good.

Fancygunz

12-10-2013, 01:18 PM

Thanks for the advice so far, it sounds like it is definitely a striker issue. I cleaned out the striker channel with brake cleaner and compressed air without disassembly, and it made no difference. I looked at the disassembly diagrams and it looks a bit complicated with all the small pieces. I will try it tonight and report back.

What should I be looking for? If the striker pin or something else is "broken" how would I know? Would it be in multiple pieces?

Bawanna

12-10-2013, 01:29 PM

Just take the slide off. Push down on the little drop safety button on the bottom of the slide. Then try to push the striker forward. It should protrude just a bit from the breech face. If you push it forward and it don't then the tip is broken off.

The slide take down isn't nearly as daunting as it looks. One thing to note is the hole you have to push in on the back cover is smaller than it appears, you have to have a tiny poker of some kind a jeweler screw driver etc.

Use the coat hanger trick to retain the striker spring or work in a bag in case it gets away from you. Once you get the cover off, its easy from there. The striker will just pull out the back.

If you pull the extractor chain out you just need to make sure it goes back in in the right order and the extractor is oriented correctly. Not hard. Really.

Bawanna

12-10-2013, 01:31 PM

Here's a good link with some pictures of the slide, the process and the coat hanger. The coat hanger is a wonderful invention.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=197

JimC

12-10-2013, 02:05 PM

I'll second the recommendation of taking it apart inside of a large plastic bag.
Ask me how I know...:eek:

muggsy

12-10-2013, 07:07 PM

How do you know, Jim C. ? :)

scosgt

12-10-2013, 10:30 PM

If it is not going fully into battery you can also get light strikes (and be thankful it did not fire out of battery).
Could be a very dirty chamber or a burr on the extractor. OR some other issue preventing the slide from going fully into battery.

Disassembly sounds scary and it is NOT. It is easy once you do it.

JimC

12-11-2013, 05:35 AM

How do you know, Jim C. ? :)

Large hands and fingers don't work well with the smallish PM9 slide. :(

One of the first times I broke the slide down into its various components, I lost control of the slide. The striker spring and guide rod flew out, ricocheted off the back of my bench, hit me in the face and went somewhere out of sight. :eek:

It took several hours to locate the parts but, the two stayed together.

laserfish

12-11-2013, 08:33 AM

Large hands and fingers don't work well with the smallish PM9 slide. :(

One of the first times I broke the slide down into its various components, I lost control of the slide. The striker spring and guide rod flew out, ricocheted off the back of my bench, hit me in the fact and went somewhere out of sight. :eek:

It took several hours to locate the parts but, the two stayed together.
More than one of us has had that experience!!!

JimC

12-11-2013, 11:54 AM

More than one of us has had that experience!!!

It was at that point that I went with the "hanger tool" and plastic bag. ;)

Fancygunz

12-12-2013, 11:16 PM

Well, I'm both disappointed and hopeful....

I took apart the slide (you were right, it wasn't that hard) and cleaned it out. I was disappointed that I didn't find anything broken - all the pieces looked shiny and new after wiping them off. I put it all back together and dry fired it a few times.

I'll take it to the range and test it out, but honestly I don't see how cleaning it could have helped (since it wasn't really dirty to begin with).

If this doesn't work, what can I try next? New striker spring? Anything else?

dohcacr

12-13-2013, 10:25 AM

Don't overlook post #14. (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=277628&postcount=14)

Harrylee

12-13-2013, 11:43 AM

My vote is striker spring has lost it strength I'll bet that is where the problem is. You said it always fired before I have seen the striker spring loose quite a bit of length give it a try see if that does it

scosgt

12-13-2013, 11:54 AM

The other thing that comes to my mind is that it is possible that the firing pin block is not being depressed fully, causing the striker to drag on it, resulting in light hits. This would indicate a problem with the part (don't know the name) that depresses it when the trigger is pulled. Could be too short or out of time.

Fancygunz

12-13-2013, 07:46 PM

Thanks for all the replies, guys. This forum is great.

After stripping the slide last night and giving it a good cleaning, I took it to the range and shot 75 rds with no problems!

I am not sure what the problem was because there was nothing obviously wrong, broken, or super dirty. Whatever it was, I am hoping it's gone for good. From now on I will be giving it regular cleanouts/blowouts.

MBSL500

12-13-2013, 09:00 PM

Excellent!

The next time you strip the slide, put a dab of Mothers Mag polish or equivalent on a pipe cleaner and run it back and forth through the striker and extractor channels.
Then give it a really good cleaning by squirting the solvent of your choice in the channels and then run a fresh pipe cleaner or two down each channel to make sure any residual debris has been removed.
If you have a compressor, blow it out when your done.

I'm not sure where the idea of squirting cleaner through the holes without stripping the slide came from, but that's certainly not the optimal way to clean the channels.
Especially when you can do it correctly in ten minutes.

Thanks for all the replies, guys. This forum is great.

After stripping the slide last night and giving it a good cleaning, I took it to the range and shot 75 rds with no problems!

I am not sure what the problem was because there was nothing obviously wrong, broken, or super dirty. Whatever it was, I am hoping it's gone for good. From now on I will be giving it regular cleanouts/blowouts.

TucsonMTB

12-13-2013, 09:11 PM

I'm not sure where the idea of squirting cleaner through the holes without stripping the slide came from, but that's certainly not the optimal way to clean the channels.
Especially when you can do it correctly in ten minutes.
Probably from page 17 of that silly Kahr manual where they caution against detail stripping anything and add that it "may affect the warranty".

Sure, most of us just ignore that section, but it's easy to spray out the debris in the channel if you don't let too much accumulate and it does keep the pistol working properly.

Remember, there are lots of new shooters who wouldn't think of tearing down the slide. Spraying regularly eliminates the need.

MBSL500

12-13-2013, 11:29 PM

Do I sense a hint of sarcasm my friend?
I hope not.

If you call Kahr, they will tell you that *Cerakoting* the slide will void the warranty.
They will also tell you that polishing the feed ramp "might affect the warranty".

He disassembled his slide, cleaned it, and now has a fully functional gun.
He has the knowledge to fix it should the extractor spring or the striker springs break in the future.
He can have his gun up and running ten minutes after the $5 spring gets to his front door.
No shipping, no wait time.

If you think that spraying will eliminate all the debris try this.
Fire a few hundred rounds through the gun.
Take the slide off and spray the channels.
Then disassemble the slide and run a clean white pipe cleaner back and forth through the channels a few times.
Take a few pictures of the pipe cleaner and post them here.

Will the debris you find on the pipe cleaner necessarily cause the gun to fail?
Of course not. It might never fail due to debris in the channel.
But it's just way too easy to make sure that you've eliminated the possibility.

Probably from page 17 of that silly Kahr manual where they caution against detail stripping anything and add that it "may affect the warranty".

Sure, most of us just ignore that section, but it's easy to spray out the debris in the channel if you don't let too much accumulate and it does keep the pistol working properly.

Remember, there are lots of new shooters who wouldn't think of tearing down the slide. Spraying regularly eliminates the need.

JimC

12-14-2013, 05:19 AM

Remember, there are lots of new shooters who wouldn't think of tearing down the slide. Spraying regularly eliminates the need.

No it does not!
As I said earlier, it pays to learn how to detail strip the slide.
Spraying the striker channel with whatever you choose to use is only doing the job half way.

MBSL500

12-14-2013, 11:01 AM

No it does not!
As I said earlier, it pays to learn how to detail strip the slide.
Spraying the striker channel with whatever you choose to use is only doing the job half way.

Absolutely true.

scosgt

12-14-2013, 11:02 AM

Agree. Needs to be cleaned, not sprayed.

Tilos

12-14-2013, 11:24 AM

For me, it depends on the spray, with the best results from a silicone type spray, any brand except Gunk.
Spraying while moving the pin with your other hand thumb nail will dislodge and flush the major residue.
Will it be surgically clean...no, but it'll shoot just fine.
Keeping a can of spray in your range bag will quickly solve a lot of problems besides this one too.
jmo

hardluk1

12-14-2013, 03:19 PM

Hummm, Bottom line is give your pistol a complete break down and clean the darn thing once in a while.

JimC

12-14-2013, 04:26 PM

Hummm, Bottom line is give your pistol a complete break down and clean the darn thing once in a while.

Hmmm...works for me. ;)

CJB

12-15-2013, 07:27 AM

I'm not sure where the idea of squirting cleaner through the holes without stripping the slide came from, but that's certainly not the optimal way to clean the channels.
Especially when you can do it correctly in ten minutes.

It came from right here in this forum, borne from the vast manifold and positive experience of many dozens, if not scores, if not centuries of satisfied Kahr owners.

The primary cause of striker problems is lubrication creating mud from its mix with contaminants. Spraying effectively thins out the crud to allow adequate operation of the parts. You'll never be contaminant free, but should be nearly lube free on the striker channel. The method works. Its used by lots of folks, and unlike you I do know the orginiation of the silly notion that a complete strip down of the upper is needed in order clear the striker channel.

ripley16

12-15-2013, 09:12 AM

The primary cause of striker problems is lubrication creating mud from its mix with contaminants.

I do not believe that statement is correct. A large number of lightstrikes, especially those in Kahrs, are of unknown causes, and is a mystery, as pointed out by this thread and many others. To the contrary, IMHO, I believe the root cause is the design that allows for little deviation from perfection. A design that is "just enough" energy wise. No room for harder primers, deep primers, a tiny bit out of battery and scores of other real life events.

Based on the large numbers of light strike reports from Kahr owners, one can only conclude that it is caused by a common failure. I can't think of any striker fired pistol that carries so much light strike baggage. Shallow primer dimples and numerous lightstrikes indicate and more energetic and deeper motion ought to be considered into the Kahr design.

MBSL500

12-15-2013, 12:09 PM

I prefer to take the time to clean my gun the same way Kahr does.
But, like they say, to each their own.....and it's certainly not anything to get anyone's pants in a bunch over.

It came from right here in this forum, borne from the vast manifold and positive experience of many dozens, if not scores, if not centuries of satisfied Kahr owners.

The primary cause of striker problems is lubrication creating mud from its mix with contaminants. Spraying effectively thins out the crud to allow adequate operation of the parts. You'll never be contaminant free, but should be nearly lube free on the striker channel. The method works. Its used by lots of folks, and unlike you I do know the orginiation of the silly notion that a complete strip down of the upper is needed in order clear the striker channel.

RRP

12-15-2013, 12:59 PM

Sarcasm is alive and well in Kahr Town.

MBSL500

12-15-2013, 02:15 PM

Sarcasm is alive and well in Kahr Town.

If I appeared sarcastic, my apology.
My intent was only to give my opinion on the best way to clean the gun.
That's all.

RRP

12-15-2013, 03:50 PM

It's the Interweb; it happens.

jocko

12-15-2013, 05:25 PM

only thing I can tell u with certainly is that my pMJ9 has over 32K rounds through it,The striker channel has been down one time and that was to install the 5#striker spring and the channel was blowed clean but it was clean also. that was over 30K rounds ago and since then the only cleaning that channel gets is through that clean out hole. Most of the build up on these kahrs came direct from the factory, once u get that channel CLEANED IN ANYWAY THAT SUITS U, it will stay clean by spraying in the clean out hole, but if u feel better about stripping it down every time. GO FOR IT. Eventuly if u do it enough u will be on the floor looking fort the striker plunger.

really ain't worth arguing abouot IMO,

My K9 has been cleaned once in the channel and that was also when I installed the 5# striker, and that was over 5K rounds ago. Most people do try to not oil the striker channel as it tend sto be a crude holder also,but if it please u, then well its ur gun, go for it..

Dino

12-15-2013, 06:35 PM

I would like consider this some kind of ridiculously bad luck, and I think I'm out of Kahr warranty. Is there anything I can do to fix it without sending it in and paying their out-of-warranty fees to repair it?

What do you mean by out of warranty? It should be covered for the life of the firearm. I know Smith and Wesson covers theirs for as long as you own it. I love my Kahrs, but do not shoot them very often. And I have some high end Kahr stuff, I don't like the CW or CM stuff. To many problems. And the mag follower deal is number one. Never really heard of many striker problems. I would tear it down and inspect it real close for defects.

Allen

12-16-2013, 10:26 PM

I'm a fairly new CM9 owner with probably less than 4 boxes (50 rds each) through it. Never any problems at the range and always stripped and cleaned per the Kahr Tech instructions, but not the striker. I started to ask how often the slide should be disassembled and the striker channel cleaned but good ole Jocko just answered that question above.

I did recently change the striker spring with one from Wolfe but certainly nothing looked at all dirty then.

Appreciate all the excellent advice and experience on here while getting used to a new type gun.