9mm, 40SW, 45 For Deer?

[garyb]

Just a thought I was having (as an avid deer hunter):


It is interesting to read discussions about 9, 40 and 45 as SD cals and then to see that they are generally not considered adequate deer hunting cals. Obviously. this is because human beings tend to shut down the fight and fear sets in when the leaking starts. Deer on the other hand, have tough survival instincts and will run away.When deer run, all you have to find them is the blood trail and tracks....so you need a good sized entrance and exit hole leaking on the ground to find them. For ethical deer hunting, most experts recommend handgun cals for deer of 10mm, 357 mag, 44 mag, 45 win mag, 454 casull, 480 Ruger, 500, etc... generally 357mag and up; and with longer barrels for better accuracy at deer hunting ranges (25yrds and further). Ammo is another consideration.


I suppose our SD cals (9, 40, 45) in the shorter SD barrels would work to kill deer at short distances of 20yrds and less. It's been done. However, it does not make sense to use these sub adequate deer hunting cals when so many other handgun cals are available to do a better, ethical job at putting deer down more quickly and leaving better blood trails. After all, if these SD cals will kill a person, they will kill a deer... at short distances. I'm not advocating that the SD cals be used for deer hunting. In fact, I'm suggesting that they not be used for deer hunting. Yet it is interesting that we trust our lives on these SD cals doing the job when it hits the fan.
Again, this was just a thought I was having. Better quit thinking...huh?

[Bill K]

I believe it is the barrel length more so than the caliber itself that makes them ineffective for deer hunting. Folks do use .45 cal BP rifles and .50 cal BP rifles using sabots with .45 caliber bullets that are very effective for taking deer.

[muggsy]

I just got back from doing a little ballistic testing using Bambi as a test media. I can attest to the fact that a Remington Copper solid fired from a 20ga Remington 870 will give you a full 18" of penetration with 1/2" entrance and 7/8" exit wound at 50 yards. I can also attest to the fact that Bambi is mighty tasty especially when wash down with a fine red wine. Ohio allows you to hunt Bambi with any straight wall rimmed pistol cartridge larger than a cal. .38 spcl.

[AJBert]

I've got a Henry Big Boy in .44 mag and I wouldn't use it to hunt deer with after looking at the ballistics. A .30-30 at fifty yards put the .44 mag to shame. Gets much worse further than that.

[RRP]

We trust our lives to our 9mm CCW, but we consider the same inadequate to take game. Interesting thought, garyb. From this, one might question whether their carry gun is sufficient for SD.

When hunting, we use a caliber that will make the kill as humanely as possible. Ideally, one shot, one kill.

In self-defense, however, the goal is not to kill. It is to stop the threat. Death may result as a consequence of using force sufficient to stop the threat, but caliber selection is not to achieve one shot, one kill.

Thinking of it this way allows me to feel confident carrying a 9mm, when I would never use the same to take large game.

[Barth]

People are soft.
Wild animals are hard.
I believe it's illegal to hunt deer with 9mm, 40 S&W or 45 ACP in most locals for good reason.

Generally penetration is the big issue with hunting ammo/calibers.
At short range long barreled 44 mag handguns, with hard cast hunting ammo,
can take deer something like a 30 30 carbine.

My choice for a hunting handgun would always be a large caliber magnum revolver.

Just because you can kill a deer with a 22 lr head shot doesn't mean you should try it.

[muggsy]

Deer aren't hard to kill, but they are hard to put down. SD pistol calibers don't make a very large entrance wound and seldom pass through leaving little or no blood trail to follow.

[jocko]

People are soft.
Wild animals are hard.
I believe it's illegal to hunt dear with 9mm, 40 S&W or 45 ACP in most locals for good reason.

Generally penetration is the big issue with hunting ammo/calibers.
At short range long barreled 44 mag handguns, with hard cast hunting ammo,
can take deer something like a 30 30 carbine.

My choice for a hunting handgun would always be a large caliber magnum revolver.

Just because you can kill a deer with a 22 lr head shot doesn't mean you should try it.

are certainly not legal in Indiana..

[Barth]

are certainly not legal in Indiana..

I meant to spell deer (not dear - LOL!)

Think Jock's sheep picture may have disturbed me.

[jocko]

I meant to spell deer (not dear - LOL!)

Think Jock's sheep picture may have disturbed me.

a big fokk ewe to u to.:blah: Just sayin

[jocko]

We trust our lives to our 9mm CCW, but we consider the same inadequate to take game. Interesting thought, garyb. From this, one might question whether their carry gun is sufficient for SD.

When hunting, we use a caliber that will make the kill as humanely as possible. Ideally, one shot, one kill.

In self-defense, however, the goal is not to kill. It is to stop the threat. Death may result as a consequence of using force sufficient to stop the threat, but caliber selection is not to achieve one shot, one kill.

Thinking of it this way allows me to feel confident carrying a 9mm, when I would never use the same to take large game.

crayon martin was not killed Z would have wentto jail. Dead mencannot give their side of the story. If u pull it, shoot to kill. Just my 21 cents

[garyb]

I've got to agree with that Jocko. I have never heard that you don't shoot to kill...you shoot to stop the threat. I have always believed that you shoot to do both. JMO.

[Barth]

This thread seems to have drifted far away from shooting deer - LOL!
It's funny how that happens...


Although not even resembling the original thread topic.
I too am an advocate of shoot to kill.

A defensive shooting should be a last resort with death or serious harm imminent.
IMHO - trying to wing someone is a risky and dangerous proposition.

[jocko]

This thread seems to have drifted far away from shooting deer - LOL!
It's funny how that happens...


Although not even resembling the original thread topic.
I too am an advocate of shoot to kill.

A defensive shooting should be a last resort with death or serious harm imminent.
IMHO - trying to wing someone is a risky and dangerous proposition.

u don't think this is sumpin new that has happened before:D

[jocko]

I've got to agree with that Jocko. I have never heard that you don't shoot to kill...you shoot to stop the threat. I have always believed that you shoot to do both. JMO.

u don't really hae to agreewith ol jocko, but it does show that u are a wise man. Just sayin:D:D

[Barth]

u don't think this is sumpin new that has happened before:D

It happens all the time.
Makes things interesting - much like you.
This place is kind of like family.
Disfuncional, but still a good place to be.

I thought I would have been rejected myself.
But I'm still around.
And glad to be here.

Merry Xmas and happy holidays to everyone.
http://6269-9001.zippykid.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Christmas-Tree-Background-Wallpaper.jpg

[garyb]

[QUOTE=Barth;278205]This thread seems to have drifted far away from shooting deer - LOL!
It's funny how that happens...


Although not even resembling the original thread topic.
I too am an advocate of shoot to kill.

QUOTE]



Threads do drift, but in this case it could go toward deer hunting OR SD OR both. Shoot to kill is along the SD trail....so not really a drift.