CM9 Break-In

[modraker]

My new CM9 was flawless over the 200 round break-in session. I went home grinning from ear to ear until I saw this . . .

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy26/modraker/e271ef0d-ed5e-431f-8928-4a6c885451ae.jpg

Has this been a common problem of late? I think a saw a post somewhere with the same thing.

[lamppa]

Should have ensured it cleared the feed ramp before the first round. Thats what they are going to say.

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[nickE10mm]

That's why they call it "break in"




Sorry, too soon?




(Don't feel bad, I haven't even shot my CM9 yet and I've had it for weeks)

[deadeye]

I've had my CM9 for exactly a year. Put over 1500 rounds through it of all brands. (ammo shortage). I bought 2 extra mags with it and haven't had a single problem with any of them. Some folks say the mag follower hits the feed ramp on some guns. Call Kahr and they will send you a new one. See if it happens again before becoming too concerned. If it repeats they will fix it.

[codegeek]

Do the test. Lock your slide back. Push your barrel back as far as it will go. Insert a magazine and see if the barrel moves.

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[modraker]

Do the test. Lock your slide back. Push your barrel back as far as it will go. Insert a magazine and see if the barrel moves.

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk 4


It doesn't move but then my follower's broken. I'll have to do the test when I've got a good one. If it moves then, will the ramp have to be reworked?

[GenericUsername]

Had the same issue with mine and I still haven't bothered to e-mail Kahr about it as I have a handful of spare magazines.

People will tell you the gun is fine and that yours is just a freak accident but this occurs pretty often (though obviously on a forum you have a sampling bias as people with working mags don't come here to post about them working).

You may have to send your gun in for a "rampectomy". Maybe some day Kahr will actually check this at the factory before sending guns out so that a customer's first experience with their product isn't sending it back for a few weeks to fix a common issue.

FWIW, I think Kahr pistols are themselves brilliant. I'm just not a fan of the magazines. ;)

[plateshooter]

"You may have to send your gun in for a "rampectomy". Maybe some day Kahr will actually check this at the factory before sending guns out so that a customer's first experience with their product isn't sending it back for a few weeks to fix a common issue."

They apparently haven't done it yet and this has been going on for a long time. Fixing the ramp is easy to do yourself, but it must be pretty hard for Kahr to do it or they just don't care.

I have two 9mm Kahr pistols and they are NOT for sale. I spent too much time, money, and ammo getting them to run properly. I used my CM9 in a local action pistol shoot and it made it through the 6 stages twice with no problems. I trust it to carry for now. If I am attacked by some unarmed card board targets that stand still and let me shoot them, I think I can defend myself quite well with my CM9.

I would like to have a CW45 but I don't want to have to go through the process again. If I found one for sale used from someone I know, and knew the gun operated properly, I would be on it in a minute. I just don't know that person yet.:)

[modraker]

Fixing the ramp is easy to do yourself, but it must be pretty hard for Kahr to do it or they just don't care.


Is it a matter of simply reducing the length of the ramp? By how much?

[muggsy]

Is it a matter of simply reducing the length of the ramp? By how much?

Off hand, I'd say just enough to clear the follower. This is just a guess mind you. :)

[modraker]

In looking at the ramp, I find that one side of the bottom edge sticks out quite a bit more than the other. This lines up with the part of the magazine follower that breaks. Is this the normal design of the ramp?

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy26/modraker/IMG204.jpg

[jocko]

yup

[modraker]

yup

Does the uneven bottom edge of the ramp serve a purpose?

[plateshooter]

Is it a matter of simply reducing the length of the ramp? By how much?

I made a feeler gauge out of some thick paper. I used some construction paper. Reduce the ramp until the paper will slide between the follower and the feed ramp when the barrel is back in it's most rear ward position. I took the slide off then reinstalled the barrel only with the slide stop pin. Put an empty mag in the frame, then lift the barrel up and back . While applying some pressure rearward, you should have some clearance. Mine did not and was breaking followers. I shortened the ramp until the paper slid between the ramp and the follower and never broke another follower. It did not affect feeding or functioning in any way on my gun. My gun has been extremely reliable even with the broken followers.

What I did worked for me. I suggest going slow and it should save your gun a trip back to Kahr.

[modraker]

I made a feeler gauge out of some thick paper. I used some construction paper. Reduce the ramp until the paper will slide between the follower and the feed ramp when the barrel is back in it's most rear ward position. I took the slide off then reinstalled the barrel only with the slide stop pin. Put an empty mag in the frame, then lift the barrel up and back . While applying some pressure rearward, you should have some clearance. Mine did not and was breaking followers. I shortened the ramp until the paper slid between the ramp and the barrel and never broke another follower. It did not affect feeding or functioning in any way on my gun. My gun has been extremely reliable even with the broken followers.

What I did worked for me. I suggest going slow and it should save your gun a trip back to Kahr.

Thank you, plateshooter. I will try this as soon as I have a good mag follower. I'd rather rework the barrel ramp myself than send it back to Kahr for a repair that could take weeks.

[RRP]

I used my CM9 in a local action pistol shoot and it made it through the 6 stages twice with no problems. I trust it to carry for now. If I am attacked by some unarmed card board targets that stand still and let me shoot them, I think I can defend myself quite well with my CM9.


Great line. Gave me a chuckle.

[Hawkeye]

Do the test. Lock your slide back. Push your barrel back as far as it will go. Insert a magazine and see if the barrel moves.

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk 4

This week I broke my second mag follower in the first 450 rounds of my new CM9. I have two magazines I pretty much alternate with so the round count on the first one broken and this one would be much less than 450. Being the holiday season with heavy shipping volumes and people being gone I opted to try the DIY fix rather than sending the gun back. After two days of phone calls to Kahr Customer Service I finally managed to speak to a human. A second follower is supposed to be on the way. That will fix half of the problem.

A post elsewhere recommends using toolmakers’ bluing to identify the interference point. I don’t want to buy something to use a few drops of and have it sit on the shelf forever. Therefore I tried a felt marker on the start of the feed ramp. After inserting the magazine numerous times I could not see where any marker rubbed off. I tried lamp black by sticking the feed ramp briefly in a candle flame. This worked.

To remove the interference, I used a Dremel tool with a sanding drum on the start of the feed ramp. Then I reblacked the ramp and checked for interference numerous times. Each time the interference point was in a slightly different location. This is due to the removing of material from an irregulary shaped part.

Two hours later I still had interference though barrel movement was very slight when inserting the magazine. I intentionally had taken it easy. One thing I know is if you take off too much metal there’s no putting it back.

This “few minutes” DIY fix, as described by others, was certainly not my experience.

At this point I polished the area I worked on with the Dremel, a felt disk and jewelers’ rouge. I am hoping the reduced interference is enough I will not break any more followers. If I do the gun is going back to Kahr for repair. If this happens I hope they either do not detect I worked on it or, in any case, do not give me grief about repairing it under warranty.

The jury is out on my opinion of Kahr. A customer should not have to “smith” a new gun for it to function properly. And when customer service is needed you should be able to talk to someone.

My advice: Unless you are experienced in this type of thing, if you have problems with more than one broken follower, send it back. Maybe if this happens enough, instead of having tight tolerances they will revise to appropriate tolerances.

I hope this helps others.

Update 2/2/14: I have now shot about double the rounds ever previously shot before breaking a follower and experienced no problem. With the holidays it still took about three weeks just to receive a replacement follower from Kahr. I would hate to think how long if I sent the pistol in and they actually had to work on it. Also no failures in 250 - 300 rounds, not that failures were ever a big problem.

I would not recommend "whittling" on the feed ramp without using lamp black or a similar approach to pinpoint the specific location of ramp:follower interference.

[MBSL500]

Edit:
Figured it out.



I made a feeler gauge out of some thick paper. I used some construction paper. Reduce the ramp until the paper will slide between the follower and the feed ramp when the barrel is back in it's most rear ward position. I took the slide off then reinstalled the barrel only with the slide stop pin. Put an empty mag in the frame, then lift the barrel up and back . While applying some pressure rearward, you should have some clearance. Mine did not and was breaking followers. I shortened the ramp until the paper slid between the ramp and the barrel and never broke another follower. It did not affect feeding or functioning in any way on my gun. My gun has been extremely reliable even with the broken followers.

What I did worked for me. I suggest going slow and it should save your gun a trip back to Kahr.

[plateshooter]

Thank you, plateshooter. I will try this as soon as I have a good mag follower. I'd rather rework the barrel ramp myself than send it back to Kahr for a repair that could take weeks.

We think alike modraker. Kahr had their chance to get it right before they sent it out for sale. They failed. From what I see, no part of the bullet ever comes close to touching the feed ramp in the area that needs to be shortened.

I really like my CM9 and E9 but they have some quirks. Once one knows them, I find it pretty easy to work around them.

I suggest watching the "nut" on the end of your recoil spring assembly. The one in my CM9 launched itself somewhere. I put the replacement on with RED locktite. I don't think that will happen again for me. The other is that be mindful of your recoil spring. When they get tired, it can be a problem. On my E9, I had a case head separation that blew out the extractor. Fortunately, no other damage to the gun was done. If you slowly ride the slide down on a empty chamber, and the gun dosen't come into full battery using the spring tension alone without depending on inertia, I would replace the recoil spring or springs.

My Kahrs will release the striker with out being in full battery, and the area of the barrel where the extractor seats seems to be the weak spot as far as case support in the Kahr guns that I have.

I really like my Kahrs and shoot them on a regular basis. Just a couple things to check to keep them going strong.

[codegeek]

I had no desire to perform my own rampectomy. It went to Kahr and was back in 10 days. I am not an expert, but I don't think you can remove too much off the feed ramp if you are careful.

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk 4

[modraker]

I suggest watching the "nut" on the end of your recoil spring assembly. The one in my CM9 launched itself somewhere. I put the replacement on with RED locktite. I don't think that will happen again for me.

So that round thing at the end of the recoil assembly is the nut that holds it all together?

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy26/modraker/IMG206.jpg

[jocko]

not really the real nut is the guy behind the gun with his finger in the trigger while playing with himslef inside of church!~!! Just sayin

[muggsy]

This week I broke my second mag follower in the first 450 rounds of my new CM9. I have two magazines I pretty much alternate with so the round count on the first one broken and this one would be much less than 450. Being the holiday season with heavy shipping volumes and people being gone I opted to try the DIY fix rather than sending the gun back. After two days of phone calls to Kahr Customer Service I finally managed to speak to a human. A second follower is supposed to be on the way. That will fix half of the problem.

A post elsewhere recommends using toolmakers’ bluing to identify the interference point. I don’t want to buy something to use a few drops of and have it sit on the shelf forever. Therefore I tried a felt marker on the start of the feed ramp. After inserting the magazine numerous times I could not see where any marker rubbed off. I tried lamp black by sticking the feed ramp briefly in a candle flame. This worked.

To remove the interference, I used a Dremel tool with a sanding drum on the start of the feed ramp. Then I reblacked the ramp and checked for interference numerous times. Each time the interference point was in a slightly different location. This is due to the removing of material from an irregulary shaped part.

Two hours later I still had interference though barrel movement was very slight when inserting the magazine. I intentionally had taken it easy. One thing I know is if you take off too much metal there’s no putting it back.

This “few minutes” DIY fix, as described by others, was certainly not my experience.

At this point I polished the area I worked on with the Dremel, a felt disk and jewelers’ rouge. I am hoping the reduced interference is enough I will not break any more followers. If I do the gun is going back to Kahr for repair. If this happens I hope they either do not detect I worked on it or, in any case, do not give me grief about repairing it under warranty.

The jury is out on my opinion of Kahr. A customer should not have to “smith” a new gun for it to function properly. And when customer service is needed you should be able to talk to someone.

My advice: Unless you are experienced in this type of thing, if you have problems with more than one broken follower, send it back. Maybe if this happens enough, instead of having tight tolerances they will revise to appropriate tolerances.

I hope this helps others.

A customer doesn't have to smith a new Kahr. A customer with any sense will send his Kahr back to Kahr and have a professional gunsmith do it. In that way they won't have to worry about voiding their warranty or paying to replace the expensive parts that they ruined. But, that's just one man's opinion.

[muggsy]

So that round thing at the end of the recoil assembly is the nut that holds it all together?

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy26/modraker/IMG206.jpg

Yup.

[muggsy]

In looking at the ramp, I find that one side of the bottom edge sticks out quite a bit more than the other. This lines up with the part of the magazine follower that breaks. Is this the normal design of the ramp?

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy26/modraker/IMG204.jpg

The gun was designed with an offset feed ramp. when the gun is assembled the frame fills the void. This was done to allow for a lower bore axis and less muzzle flip. Watch the video on the link below and learn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYRHpolEC_Y&playnext=1&list=PL9C885DAED1AA2EC2&feature=results_main

[muggsy]

not really the real nut is the guy behind the gun with his finger in the trigger while playing with himslef inside of church!~!! Just sayin

Yer a lotta help you old reprobate. Just sayin.

[modraker]

not really the real nut is the guy behind the gun with his finger in the trigger while playing with himslef inside of church!~!! Just sayin
There sure are more interesting people in this forum than any other one I've been to, I gotta say.

[modraker]

The gun was designed with an offset feed ramp. when the gun is assembled the frame fills the void. This was done to allow for a lower bore axis and less muzzle flip. Watch the video on the link below and learn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYRHpolEC_Y&playnext=1&list=PL9C885DAED1AA2EC2&feature=results_main



Enlightening video. Thank you muggsy.

[Hawkeye]

A customer doesn't have to smith a new Kahr. A customer with any sense will send his Kahr back to Kahr and have a professional gunsmith do it. In that way they won't have to worry about voiding their warranty or paying to replace the expensive parts that they ruined. But, that's just one man's opinion.

Well, EXCUSE ME! You need to get back on your meds.

I already stated how the Holiday Season played into my decision. Sounds like I have plenty of company on the Forum in my decision, however.

Just one man's opinion.

[modraker]

There is fun and satisfaction in working on your guns. I've owned many firearms over the last half a century and I have never sent one back for warranty repair. Voiding the warranty is simply a monetary consideration and it has always taken a backseat to my desire to fix the problem myself. While I realize that there are those who are not tinkerers by nature, I know that there are others who love being their own gunsmith.

[Hawkeye]

There is fun and satisfaction in working on your guns. I've owned many firearms over the last half a century and I have never sent one back for warranty repair. Voiding the warranty is simply a monetary consideration and it has always taken a backseat to my desire to fix the problem myself. While I realize that there are those who are not tinkerers by nature, I know that there are others who love being their own gunsmith.

=====

Well stated, Modraker.

My willingness to dig into things like this varies somewhat with the urgency of the situation and whatever else is going on in my life at the time. Once I decide to tackle something, however, I cannot think of a single time when I wasn’t pleased with the results as well as a feeling of accomplishment. A little TLC by an owner is worth a lot and can far surpass the results of someone who is merely doing something for pay.

That said, as noted in my original post, this job turned out to be much more time-consuming than what others described. I am not sure why this is. As a matter of fact earlier today I decided to have another go at this and eliminate the small amount of interference that remained. I spent another 1.3 hours on it. I am now sure the interference is gone without having created a gap between the parts. I have every confidence I will not have any more problems once I receive my replacement magazine follower.

My original conclusion was that if I had known from the start the amount of time this would take I would not have started it. Hoping to help others, I recommended that others return their pistol to Kahr if they broke two followers. Ironically, Muggsy merely seconded my recommendation. My only objection was to the character assassination that was thrown in along the way.

‘Nuff said.

[JimC]

A customer doesn't have to smith a new Kahr. A customer with any sense will send his Kahr back to Kahr and have a professional gunsmith do it. In that way they won't have to worry about voiding their warranty or paying to replace the expensive parts that they ruined. But, that's just one man's opinion.

No, make that two!...;)

I sent my PM9 back to Kahr to have it corrected by them when it broke three followers because they should have taken the issue into condideration when the pistol was made.
I don't think they give a s*#t about it.
I could have done the work myself but I felt they should pay to have the gun sent back, worked on and then returned.

[modraker]

After suffering a broken magazine follower during my CM9's 200-round break in session, I decided to do my own ramp rework as shown in the before and after picture below. Kahr provided a replacement follower very quickly and today I shot 150 rounds of PMC 124 gr FMJ plus 20 rounds of Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P. I am elated to report zero malfunction. And my follower is in one piece.

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy26/modraker/KahrCM9-BeforeAfterRamp.jpg