This is actually.... a pistol. (AR content w/pix)

[CJB]

Researching a bit....

Made from stripped lower receiver, 10.5" barrel, with sundry furniture (and yes, I got another MagPul MBUS).

That is not a shoulder stock. It is an arm brace. The SB15 from Sig. There's an ATF letter stating that the attachement of the arm brace does not reclassify an AR pistol as a short barreled rifle.

WE really need to scrap some of those archaic laws.....

And.... I've been told by my Class III dealer that Title II weapons tax stamp applications will need to include CLEO signoff and fingerprint card and photos of all members of the Trust - if you're using a Trust - in beginning June 2014. So, if you wanted to form a trust (easy!), and go without CLEO signoff and such, even if just to purchase a stripped reciever and have it listed as an SBR, now is the time to do it. If you list it as an SBR (using ATF Form 1, online even), then there is no time limit with which to actually build it. Hence, my Remington 870's will be listed as short barrel shotguns, even though there is no immediate conversion at hand, ditto this receiver, and another sitting in the box here.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/M4/IMG_20131228_210544_zps4520bd49.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/M4/IMG_20131228_210544_zps4520bd49.jpg.html)

[hardluk1]

Is your pistol over 26" long?? It would be a sbr then.


I think its currently taking so long for the paper work to go thru the atf a trust may not make it by june. Local class 3 dealer its close to 7 months right now. Our butt head of a sheriff will not sign for class 3 anything.

[Longitude Zero]

I had heard similar about Firearms Trust several months ago. It sounds like if you are not paying attention when the new regulations go into effect a lot of folks cold be classified as criminals and for doing what they thought was correct under the old standards. Most CLEO's are hesitant to sign. Ours will sign for supressors and SBR's after he puts you through a super thorough background check he has dreamed up. Also he will NEVER sign for full auto, not even for members of his own agency.

[RRP]

Researching a bit....

... I've been told by my Class III dealer that Title II weapons tax stamp applications will need to include CLEO signoff and fingerprint card and photos of all members of the Trust - if you're using a Trust - in beginning June 2014.


This is the first time I've seen an effective start date attached to this executive action.

This rule change negates many advantages of purchasing an NFA item via a trust or a corporation. The demand for gun trusts is going to plummet when this change goes into effect. So will the demand for suppressors and short barrels.

[CJB]

Is your pistol over 26" long?? It would be a sbr then.




Not sure what you're saying. A pistol has no barrel length limit or loa limt. It only needs to be designed to be shot with one hand. A pistol with a overall length over 26 inches is legal to put a vertical grip on hewever... ATF says over 26 is not concealable. Go figure....but they make the rules.

[Barth]

My AK was imported classified as a pistol.
I've read all kinds of things about what I can and can't do to it legally.
With little consensus on those opinions.

My solution is to leave it exactly the way it was imported.
I'm going safe and sure with this one.
http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r678/barthunderwood/Mobile%20Uploads/Photo0385_zpse8f2c10c.jpg

[CJB]

NICE AK!

Does that have an arm-brace as well? Trying to make out what its got going on behind the receiver.

You've got two options. 1. Leave it alone (a good option), or 2. Apply for SBR and put a stock on the back. Not sure how the attachment would be made... I'ts been a while since I've messed with an AK, and the last one was a machined receiver folding stock model (that I found very uncomfortable to shoot).

The AR platform is more easlily changed and converted... but the same rules apply. ATF themselves have a pretty good FAQ regarding all of this on their website. Concensus of no concern. The ATF rules are the only thing you need worry about.

There's a guy on another forum right now saying he can use one short AR upper with multiple lowers, but only one tax stamp. Some agree with him, but... that concensus does not make it so.

[RRP]

There's a guy on another forum right now saying he can use one short AR upper with multiple lowers, but only one tax stamp. Some agree with him, but... that concensus does not make it so.

Of course, we know it's not the upper that's registered as an SBR, it's the lower receiver. So, he is mistaken.

[CJB]

His misguided belief came about from learning the upper could be engraved with the name and city of the maker (ie the form 1 person or entity). Thats true, but the stamp is still only for the lower.

I was real close to getting an AK pistol, then saw the brace for the AR.... figured why change?

[Barth]

NICE AK!

Does that have an arm-brace as well? Trying to make out what its got going on behind the receiver.

You've got two options. 1. Leave it alone (a good option), or 2. Apply for SBR and put a stock on the back. Not sure how the attachment would be made... I'ts been a while since I've messed with an AK, and the last one was a machined receiver folding stock model (that I found very uncomfortable to shoot).

No arm brace, just a clamp to hold the adjustment on the two point sling.
My Bulgy AK has a 4.5mm rear hinge trunnion installed from the factory.
They are pretty easy to SBR.
But I'm leaving it as a pistol.
I can run a pistol reactive target course faster than with a HK45.
The gun works as a Personal Defense Weapon as is for me.
Plus, being a pistol, it's not 922R compliant.
100% Bulgarian parts with a 10.5" Steyr technology forged chrome lined barrel.
The short gas system suchka was designed to run a 10.5" barrel.
And it runs like butter right out of the box.

I'm very happy with it.
BTW Bulgaria is part of NATO.
And this bad boy runs any AR 5.56 NATO ammo.

[Bawanna]

As usual I'm a 100 years behind but my Rossi Ranchhand is sold as a pistol. Not butt stock. I'd love to put a useable butt stock on it but then it would be a SBR.

Maybe Hillary had it right after all. What difference does it make.

Naw she didn't have it right, she still sucks.

[CJB]

if you can find a way to put a SB15 or SB47 on it, you're good to go, its an arm brace! An ill fitting arm brace, but.... ya know, maybe if your arm is as twisted as my mind.... it might work.

[CJB]

And jeeze a 5.56 AK. There were a bunch of those making the rounds new, about a month or six weeks ago, and in 7.62x39 too. I think they were $399 shipped! Dubious quality , but with an AK... it probably doesn't matter. I've always felt that the stamped parts could be made from recycled old hubcaps (well, 1950's hubcaps at least) and they'd be fine.

[Barth]

And jeeze a 5.56 AK. There were a bunch of those making the rounds new, about a month or six weeks ago, and in 7.62x39 too. I think they were $399 shipped! Dubious quality , but with an AK... it probably doesn't matter. I've always felt that the stamped parts could be made from recycled old hubcaps (well, 1950's hubcaps at least) and they'd be fine.

Mine is an Arsenal.
Designed, manufactured and shipped as a complete pistol from Arsenal AD (Bulgarian: Арсенал АД).
Imported by Arsenal of Nevada.
And sold as a complete pistol exactly as it left the factory in Bulgaria.

IMHO it's one of the best available.
http://www.novinite.com/media/images/2011-08/photo_verybig_130878.jpg

[CJB]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/Del-Ton%20Pistol/IMG_20140107_190723_zps0a5217c5.jpg


[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/Del-Ton%20Pistol/IMG_20140107_190518_zpsa84d6eb0.jpg.html]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/Del-Ton%20Pistol/IMG_20140107_190518_zpsa84d6eb0.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/Del-Ton%20Pistol/IMG_20140107_190723_zps0a5217c5.jpg.html)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/Del-Ton%20Pistol/IMG_20140107_190640_zpsccc47341.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/Del-Ton%20Pistol/IMG_20140107_190640_zpsccc47341.jpg.html)

[CJB]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/Del-Ton%20Pistol/IMG_20140107_192146_zps09d99012.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/Del-Ton%20Pistol/IMG_20140107_192146_zps09d99012.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/Del-Ton%20Pistol/IMG_20140107_190453_zpsc269c9b2.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/Del-Ton%20Pistol/IMG_20140107_190453_zpsc269c9b2.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/Del-Ton%20Pistol/IMG_20140107_190507_zps63289255.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/Del-Ton%20Pistol/IMG_20140107_190507_zps63289255.jpg.html)

[CJB]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/Del-Ton%20Pistol/IMG_20140107_190410_zps41e0e8c0.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/Del-Ton%20Pistol/IMG_20140107_190410_zps41e0e8c0.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/Del-Ton%20Pistol/IMG_20140107_190436_zps7cc40493.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bandersnatchreverb/media/Firearms/Del-Ton%20Pistol/IMG_20140107_190436_zps7cc40493.jpg.html)

Pictures like this will cause instant controversy on another forum, so I'll show 'em here. To marry a Del-Ton lower with a Noveske upper is like putting a Yugo Engine in your Mercedes.... to them at least. In my own facts as they are world, I see a great finish, perfect machining, tight fit, everything just fine on that Del-Ton lower. In fact... except for the name, you would be hard pressed to tell it from the Colt lower I've got, and those are supposed to be one of the best. Snobbery at its finest... which is why I love the Kahrtalk Forum. No snobbery here. Sarcasm, yes. Snobbery, no.