Replaced recoil spring assembly CM9

[S281]

Since my CM9 has had almost 1500 flawless rds through it, figured i would change the recoil spring. Holy crap, i forgot how tight it was in the beginning when new. Its a struggle to get that spring to not shoot off while putting it back together. On the plus side, the rattle/slop in the slide is gone now, and hopefully this will somehow take care of broken follower issue as well. Anyway, here is a pic of the difference in between the two springs

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m24/spederman/20131231_144420_zps1794db69.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/spederman/media/20131231_144420_zps1794db69.jpg.html)

[garyb]

It is interesting to see how much your old spring compressed. I have much more than 1500 rounds through my original PM40 spring assembly and it is still going strong....but I have considered getting a new assembly in - just in case. Maybe this summer. I'd be surprised if the new spring corrected your follower breakage. But then again, who knows?

[xsailer]

Interesting but logical. Did you notice the spacing of the used spring coils off of the pin?

[CJB]

The underlying problem with broken followers is maked by the stronger spring. The real problem is the barrel's feed ramp is a tad too long and needs just a little trimming to not hit the follower.

~~

On a side note.... it still makes me wonder how things get out of the factory like this. I know how they happen, thats not the issue. They happen because of stacked tolerances and variations in the polymer receiver. But how on earth do they get out the door able to smack the follower. Either a management decision was made that most of the barrels are fine, and production needs to move along, keeping the numbers up, or, the pistols are assembled by workers getting piece work wages. Get 'em built, get 'em fired and get 'em out the door. I don't wanna knock Kahr, I'm not knocking them, but thats one of two most often seen complaints we see here, and it could go away if they really wanted it to go away.

The other issue is the trigger bar issue. On that, I'm convinced that those guns must have some plastic shreds causing an issue. No way they got out the door not being able to be fired. So that means they were fired, and then had a problem later on. We see this here. Pistols worked great then... a problem. Not sure how well it could be corrected in production, but I somehow think the fix is not as complex as we may think. After all, the pistol did in fact work for a while.

[olympicmotorcars]

The underlying problem with broken followers is maked by the stronger spring. The real problem is the barrel's feed ramp is a tad too long and needs just a little trimming to not hit the follower.

~~

On a side note.... it still makes me wonder how things get out of the factory like this. I know how they happen, thats not the issue. They happen because of stacked tolerances and variations in the polymer receiver. But how on earth do they get out the door able to smack the follower. Either a management decision was made that most of the barrels are fine, and production needs to move along, keeping the numbers up, or, the pistols are assembled by workers getting piece work wages. Get 'em built, get 'em fired and get 'em out the door. I don't wanna knock Kahr, I'm not knocking them, but thats one of two most often seen complaints we see here, and it could go away if they really wanted it to go away.

The other issue is the trigger bar issue. On that, I'm convinced that those guns must have some plastic shreds causing an issue. No way they got out the door not being able to be fired. So that means they were fired, and then had a problem later on. We see this here. Pistols worked great then... a problem. Not sure how well it could be corrected in production, but I somehow think the fix is not as complex as we may think. After all, the pistol did in fact work for a while.

I totally agree CJB

[RRP]

CJB's post addresses the elephant in the room.

This is what happens when a spike in demand creates production pressure which supersedes pride-in-quality.

It's a common manufacturing growing pain. But it comes at a great price, if the balance of production and quality control are not restored.

If you owned an independent gun shop, how many of your customers would you disappoint (and risk losing) by having sold them a defective gun, before deciding it wasn't worth the risk of selling that brand anymore? And once gun shops start saying Kahrs are unreliable, what do you suppose will happen to demand and Kahr's reputation?

That said, I believe most Kahrs are trouble-free. We are more likely to hear of the problematic ones, which makes the issue seem more widespread than it really is. Still, a small gun shop owner won't have to get burned too many times, before he begins to shy away from Kahrs.

I agree with CJB; it's time Kahr steps-up its QC.

[JERRY]

CJB's post addresses the elephant in the room.

This is what happens when a spike in demand creates production pressure which supersedes pride-in-quality.

It's a common manufacturing growing pain. But it comes at a great price, if the balance of production and quality control are not restored.

If you owned an independent gun shop, how many of your customers would you disappoint (and risk losing) by having sold them a defective gun, before deciding it wasn't worth the risk of selling that brand anymore? And once gun shops start saying Kahrs are unreliable, what do you suppose will happen to demand and Kahr's reputation?

That said, I believe most Kahrs are trouble-free. We are more likely to hear of the problematic ones, which makes the issue seem more widespread than it really is. Still, a small gun shop owner won't have to get burned too many times, before he begins to shy away from Kahrs.

I agree with CJB; it's time Kahr steps-up its QC.



Seecamp has it right.

[muggsy]

I don't think that stacked tolerances play any role in how these guns perform. That's concern should be taken into consideration by the engineering department. One gun may be a bit looser or tighter than another, but both should operate just fine. I'm speaking from 24 years of experience as a mechanic and fifteen years experience as a machinist. With CNC machining we're only talking + or - .001" here. With CNC grinding + or - .0001". All guns are test fired before leaving the factory, but I doubt that Kahr runs more than one mag through each gun. Initial testing of a new product is far more extensive than production testing.

[garyb]

The underlying problem with broken followers is maked by the stronger spring. The real problem is the barrel's feed ramp is a tad too long and needs just a little trimming to not hit the follower.

~~

On a side note.... it still makes me wonder how things get out of the factory like this. I know how they happen, thats not the issue. They happen because of stacked tolerances and variations in the polymer receiver. But how on earth do they get out the door able to smack the follower. Either a management decision was made that most of the barrels are fine, and production needs to move along, keeping the numbers up, or, the pistols are assembled by workers getting piece work wages. Get 'em built, get 'em fired and get 'em out the door. I don't wanna knock Kahr, I'm not knocking them, but thats one of two most often seen complaints we see here, and it could go away if they really wanted it to go away.

The other issue is the trigger bar issue. On that, I'm convinced that those guns must have some plastic shreds causing an issue. No way they got out the door not being able to be fired. So that means they were fired, and then had a problem later on. We see this here. Pistols worked great then... a problem. Not sure how well it could be corrected in production, but I somehow think the fix is not as complex as we may think. After all, the pistol did in fact work for a while.



I agree ....Kahr needs to focus more of their attention on the issue and fix it before they leave the factory at their production cost (which of course will get passed on to the consumer). It is that simple.

[CJB]

Mugs its not the cnc'd part (I hope) but the molded polymer receiver. I doubt they hold the ramp nose final size to .001, that would be slower and thus more expensive, but those frames.... I'd be willing to bet the relative position of the molded in pin hole varies by ten times that amount. There's your stacking, since the hole placement cannot be held to tight tolerances without a bunch of trouble. I know, I deal with the mold shop almost daily at work.

And I agree, its an engineering/design issue. What scares me... is for every tight fit ramp nose, there's gotta be an equal number of big gaps too. Maybe they're edging the tolerance on the tight side so they don't run over on the loose side... dunno.

Or, if they're not able to easily hold things tighter, and it can be a real chore in molding, then they need to have a production safeguard in place - a go-no/go system. And maybe.... just maybe... the proble is so rare for them, they're willing to just let 'em go out, and deal with it later. Hope not...but could be.

[Tundra5.7]

My CM9 just recently cracked a follower after about 250 rounds. Called Kahr CS and they are sending me a new follower and said if another one broke, the gunsmith at Kahr would need to see it. I don't have a problem with that but I still have not received my new follower. My call to Kahr CS was the morning of December 24th.

I really like this little pistol and I'm willing to give Kahr a chance to make it right. However, I have got to wonder if Kahr figures most people won't shoot these little pistols enough to experience the cracked follower issue?

[340pd]

My CM9 just recently cracked a follower after about 250 rounds. Called Kahr CS and they are sending me a new follower and said if another one broke, the gunsmith at Kahr would need to see it. I don't have a problem with that but I still have not received my new follower. My call to Kahr CS was the morning of December 24th.

I really like this little pistol and I'm willing to give Kahr a chance to make it right. However, I have got to wonder if Kahr figures most people won't shoot these little pistols enough to experience the cracked follower issue?

Cut everyone a little slack during the holidays. I retired from the printing paper industry and it was customary for some of the mills to totally shut down Christmas through New Years. Lot's of vacation time. Give them a followup call tomorrow.

[Tundra5.7]

Cut everyone a little slack during the holidays. I retired from the printing paper industry and it was customary for some of the mills to totally shut down Christmas through New Years. Lot's of vacation time. Give them a followup call tomorrow.

I thought I'd give them a call this coming Monday if it does not come by then.