Nra self defense insurance!!!

[knkali]

Finally, a policy that really makes sense. Many here think that their homeowners/umbrella policy will cover them if they shoot someone. In my research, it wont. This policy is the FIRST one I have ever seen that fits the type of coverage we need as CCW holders. I encourage all of our forum members to check this out and strongly consider buying it. I am in the process of ferreting out the few questions I have about it; however, it seems to be perfect for us.


http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/defense.htm?utm_source=nra+monthly+member+email+ac tivation+sd+1-14&utm_medium=email&utm_content=sd+cta+button&utm_campaign=nra+monthly+email&segmentcode=bad00772

[Longitude Zero]

It is better than nothing but the devil is in the details aka small print. Sadly this plan is like many others in that what id does not specifically say it covers concerns me more than what it does cover.


In a lawsuit the majority of the money is used up in things that I have never seen any of these type policies cover.

[jocko]

also looks very expensive to. I am checking with my insurance agent after reading this to see if ,y 1million umbrella covers. That onlyt cost me $200 a year, where as the NRA one is over $600

Just sayin

[knkali]

you guys are on point and covering the same things I am. Any relevant info you guys come up with, please share. We need an insurance guru from the board to comment.

[rjt123]

If I understand what I read about this, there's one GINORMOUS problem with it.

The cost of criminal defense is REIMBURSED after a "Not Guilty" verdict. Meaning that you have to find the money for your own defense, and they'll give it back to you after the trial (assuming you're acquitted).

Don't know about you folks, but the only place I've got $100K sitting around is in my 401K retirement account. :(

[berettabone]

Talked to my insurance agent long ago about coverage....................at this time, they don't look at ANY shooting as justified.

[340pd]

In todays world, one million dollars coverage is not nearly enough.

[jocko]

and again if ur gonna let a possable one in a million lawsui9te bother u, then don't carry..

[knkali]

If I understand what I read about this, there's one GINORMOUS problem with it.

The cost of criminal defense is REIMBURSED after a "Not Guilty" verdict. Meaning that you have to find the money for your own defense, and they'll give it back to you after the trial (assuming you're acquitted).

Don't know about you folks, but the only place I've got $100K sitting around is in my 401K retirement account. :(



of course it would be worded that way. Otherwise you would be expecting an insurance company to insure you to murder someone--right?


Bet Zimmerman wishes he had this insurance...............just say'n.

[knkali]

and again if ur gonna let a possable one in a million lawsui9te bother u, then don't carry..

yep you are right about that.......

[Dirty Harry]

The only other problem with this insurance is the defense attorney saying "ladies & gentleman of the jury he must have been planning on shooting someone or else why would he get such insurance."

[knkali]

I spoke with a great insurance guy, he said to give him a few days. He is going to request the policy for his perusal. If they don't give it to him, then he said to forget about signing up. That will be very telling, but by law they are supposed to provide it if requested. As LZ said....the devil is in the details.
Yes he is an NRA member too. He was also very skeptical about the "no cost" gun insurance that the NRA offers. When it is free, you usually cannot afford it and they insure your weapons without proof of ownership doesn't add up either. He wants to read that policy too. Is there a deductible? HOw much? ect ect. He said the NRA doesn't do anything without something in it for them. While that is not a bad thing, I do agree. He did check the company that underwrites the policy and said that they are solvent.

[knkali]

The only other problem with this insurance is the defense attorney saying "ladies & gentleman of the jury he must have been planning on shooting someone or else why would he get such insurance."
Of course they will. Or why are you on a gun forum..do you have a fascination with guns? Why do you train with your gun? Do you plan on using it? Why do you have more than one gun? Are you a nut? The list goes on and on..........

[knkali]

A guy who knows the business looked at the policy. Here is his take:


The first few pages is basically the same wording as that of a homeowner’s policy. In other words, nothing is covered if you use your gun.
2. The second part (which I’ve highlighted and attached) is the coverage in the event of an “Accidental Discharge” of your weapon. First the good news, an accidental discharge includes the act of defending yourself. That’s about the only good news.
3. The policy basically provides REIMBURSEMENT of your legal fees and civil damages in the event the DA drops the charges or you are tried and acquitted of the charges. If you are convicted of the charge, they will not pay you anything.
4. So, first, you have to have about $100,000 ready cash to defend yourself. Only if you are acquitted, will you see any reimbursement.
5. Remember, in the justice system, the State may charge you with Murder for the shooting. After you have incurred say $50,000 defending yourself (likely while sitting in jail), they may offer a plea deal. For example, “If you plead to involuntary manslaughter or negligent discharge of the firearm, we’ll let you go for time served. You think, “Hey, if I plead to negligent discharge which may be a misdemeanor and they let me out of jail tomorrow, I’ll take it”. You then send your legal bills to the insurance company and they respond (and they will), “We’re not going to reimburse you because you weren’t acquitted or the charges weren’t dropped. They were modified which is not the same thing as dropped. But, thank you for your business. Please come again.”

So, as you can see, I think it’s primarily a waste of money

[knkali]

Now, looking at this policy too.
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/membership/

[knkali]

Now, looking at this policy too.
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/membership/

Same as the NRA's plan ---no bueno for the $$$

[TucsonMTB]

Hey! Thanks for the definitive bubble burst. It is better to know than to be caught flat footed. For several years, I did the Prepaid Legal scam. It took me a while to figure out it was totally worthless when you need it most.

Oh, well . . . :o

[Bill K]

I'm thinking... If it is a "clean shoot" (clear SD situation) and your adversary(s) doesn't die figure 5K-10K should you decide on counsel (which I would recommend for a regular civilian) to help you through the process. Cheaper perhaps if you've done business before with the law firm and early on they see it as a slam dunk in your favor.

[knkali]

Hey! Thanks for the definitive bubble burst. It is better to know than to be caught flat footed. For several years, I did the Prepaid Legal scam. It took me a while to figure out it was totally worthless when you need it most.

Oh, well . . . :o

Actually I was gonna check into the prepaid legal thing as an alternative....what's the scam?

[TucsonMTB]

Actually I was gonna check into the prepaid legal thing as an alternative....what's the scam?
Although it was originally pushed by a presenter at a Phoenix concealed carry class, the will offer NO help, other than a referral, for anything related to firearms.

It's basically a way to bank dollars/hours for purely business related legal activities and probably useful for that. One guy on one of the other forums I visit reported that their assistance with a divorce was useful and saved him a lot of money.

But, they will not even participate if you initiate a suit against another individual. They are very non-confrontational, until you try to quit, then they want you to jump through hoops before relinquishing access to your credit card. I spent quite a bit of time on the phone with one of their account saving specialists as a result.

I listened to all kinds of business related "advantages" and asked pointed questions. Bottom line: It's just not useful for anything loosely classified by them as "criminal", not even a traffic stop. It was weird. They send you a "Will Making Kit" but after generating a generic document offer no services to put it in place.

My scam radar was alerted by comments on ArizonaShooting.com. If you Google Prepaid Legal, you will probably find lots of complaints about lack of urgency and failures to guard their client's interests. At least, I did several years ago when I bailed.

If you do look at them, I will curious to hear if your findings match mine.

[berettabone]

You can also counter sue your adversary for numerous things ie., mental anguish, sleep loss, loss of intimacy with your spouse due to stress related issues, any injury sustained, etc., etc. Their lawyer can also say, look, his ammunition didn't say defense, or home defense, self defense, so he must have been looking for a reason to use his weapon.

[knkali]

Although it was originally pushed by a presenter at a Phoenix concealed carry class, the will offer NO help, other than a referral, for anything related to firearms.

It's basically a way to bank dollars/hours for purely business related legal activities and probably useful for that. One guy on one of the other forums I visit reported that their assistance with a divorce was useful and saved him a lot of money.

But, they will not even participate if you initiate a suit against another individual. They are very non-confrontational, until you try to quit, then they want you to jump through hoops before relinquishing access to your credit card. I spent quite a bit of time on the phone with one of their account saving specialists as a result.

I listened to all kinds of business related "advantages" and asked pointed questions. Bottom line: It's just not useful for anything loosely classified by them as "criminal", not even a traffic stop. It was weird. They send you a "Will Making Kit" but after generating a generic document offer no services to put it in place.

My scam radar was alerted by comments on ArizonaShooting.com. If you Google Prepaid Legal, you will probably find lots of complaints about lack of urgency and failures to guard their client's interests. At least, I did several years ago when I bailed.

If you do look at them, I will curious to hear if your findings match mine.


makes complete sense after you explained it. no need to reinvent the wheel...thanks Tucson

[Tpsfoto]

I subscribe to CCW Safe, they cover the attorney, independent investigator, and full representation after a shoot. The cost is $99.00 per year or $149.00 for you and a spouse.
After the shoot you call, give your card number and they dispatch the nearest attorney that is pro ccw. They do not cover any monetary awards if you are sued only the representation.

[RRP]

Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network (http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/home)

[TucsonMTB]

I subscribe to CCW Safe, they cover the attorney, independent investigator, and full representation after a shoot. The cost is $99.00 per year or $149.00 for you and a spouse.
After the shoot you call, give your card number and they dispatch the nearest attorney that is pro ccw. They do not cover any monetary awards if you are sued only the representation.
Based on what is presented in their web site http://ccwsafe.com/, this looks like a winner to me. http://home.mindspring.com/~justsomeguy/thumbsup.gif

[downtownv]

There's also USCCA.

[AIRret]

knkali, thanks for bringing up the subject. As we all know it is really important.

I was wondering if anyone on the forum has simply searched out a lawyer so you know who to call if the second worse thing in life happens, i.e. you shoot someone!

[berettabone]

knkali, thanks for bringing up the subject. As we all know it is really important.

I was wondering if anyone on the forum has simply searched out a lawyer so you know who to call if the second worse thing in life happens, i.e. you shoot someone!
I carry the phone #'s of 2 local pro firearm attorneys in my area, in my wallet......................................http://kahrtalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[AIRret]

I carry the phone #'s of 2 local pro firearm attorneys in my area, in my wallet......................................http://kahrtalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

How did you go about selecting them?

[AIRret]

And Masaad Ayoob suggests you hire someone who has defended innocent people before, because it's a whole different approach.

[knkali]

Based on what is presented in their web site http://ccwsafe.com/, this looks like a winner to me. http://home.mindspring.com/~justsomeguy/thumbsup.gif
So far my ins guru said it passed the smell test but, as LZ said "the devil is in the details". Stay tuned. He is requesting the policy for review.

[knkali]

Based on what is presented in their web site http://ccwsafe.com/, this looks like a winner to me. http://home.mindspring.com/~justsomeguy/thumbsup.gif

here is what my ins guy says about this plan so far:
"They’ve only been around since 2011. I really have serious questions regarding their financial ability (solvency) to respond in time of need. Since they are not an “insurance company” they get around all the regulatory requirements for solvency"

[TucsonMTB]

here is what my ins guy says about this plan so far:
"They’ve only been around since 2011. I really have serious questions regarding their financial ability (solvency) to respond in time of need. Since they are not an “insurance company” they get around all the regulatory requirements for solvency"
Thanks! That occurred to me as well. However, if I had purchased Microsoft stock back when you could say the same thing about them . . . well . . . ;)

If that is the only caution he offers, I take his overall assessment as positive.

Think for a moment about Masaad Ayoob's comment regarding the unique experience necessary to succeed. If you have read the personal profiles of the principals, you will probably agree with me that they seem to have the right background. And, remember, they are not just paying for professional legal counsel but also providing some of those services themselves. So, their sweat equity might help overcome the capitalization issues.

I think I am going to give them a chance. In the very least, $100 for the sense of being somewhat prepared seems like less of a gamble than several times that amount for folks who clearly are not planning to help.

A sense of well being because I have done something to prepare for the very unlikely, worst case scenario was part of my original justification for the PrePaid Legal adventure, at roughly three times the cost. Hopefully, this will work out better.

[knkali]

Thanks! That occurred to me as well. However, if I had purchased Microsoft stock back when you could say the same thing about them . . . well . . . ;)

If that is the only caution he offers, I take his overall assessment as positive.

Think for a moment about Masaad Ayoob's comment regarding the unique experience necessary to succeed. If you have read the personal profiles of the principals, you will probably agree with me that they seem to have the right background. And, remember, they are not just paying for professional legal counsel but also providing some of those services themselves. So, their sweat equity might help overcome the capitalization issues.
I am starting to think it is a website and a bank account. When the SHTF they will be instantly BK or something...... just a feeling amigo. I could be all wrong too.
I think I am going to give them a chance. In the very least, $100 for the sense of being somewhat prepared seems like less of a gamble than several times that amount for folks who clearly are not planning to help.

A sense of well being because I have done something to prepare for the very unlikely, worst case scenario was part of my original justification for the PrePaid Legal adventure, at roughly three times the cost. Hopefully, this will work out better.


I hear you and understand what you are feeling BUT I don't want to give someone my money and hope that it works out either. So do you really have peace of mind with this product? It just seems kind of funny....they are providing a "service" that no other entity will even begin to cover and do it at a very reasonable fee. Too good to be true?

[TucsonMTB]

. . . Too good to be true?
Maybe . . . hopefully, we will never find out. ;)

[knkali]

Maybe . . . hopefully, we will never find out. ;)

roger that