is my follower hitting ramp? update

[takem]

I took a video to show you. Barrel definitely pops up a bit. I wasn't sure if that was normal. Hopefully this link works.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc35/brad-hendrickson/th_IMG_5417_zps8c83c468.jpg (http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc35/brad-hendrickson/IMG_5417_zps8c83c468.mp4)

[JERRY]

yes, its hitting it. no it should not hit it.

[takem]

Spoke to Ian in customer service and he says it isn't hitting the feed ramp or it would of broken by now (4-500 rounds through it). This is obviously not true if you browse a few threads you can see some break on the first 6 shots and some last until 1,000 rounds. If it does break they will replace it and after 2 times I can send it in. Not really what I was hoping for. Sure looks like it bumps the feed ramp to me. Plus there's a mark on the follower where it hits. He said it probably comes with in half the thickness of a cigarette paper. No chance it has tolerances like that. I thought this thing was legally under warranty. Not sure I trust my life to this gun. It's my last kahr for sure. That being said, I don't want to sell it so I guess I'll have to try the ramp mod route. Any suggestions on what exactly to use?

[FLBri]

It is so "ing disappointing to hear how Kahr customer service takes one step forward and two steps backwards, CONTINUALLY. I have personally had good experiences with them, and have defended Kahr C.S. often ... but it's hard to deny the lack of consistent good customer treatment and service that is afforded to their customers.

Why should it have to break twice before being repaired. Major MAJOR B.S.

This kind of stuff really make me question my recommendations of the product.

Very, Very disappointing for such a good product design.

I wish someone there had the ability and authority to shake them back to their senses.

[takem]

Yeah I feel like I was lied to and told I was wrong when It's clearly hitting. "half the width of a cigarette paper". Come on. Really don't want to take a dremel to it but shouldn't have to pay to have it done.

[Tilos]

Mod the FOLLOWER:yo:
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=22506

[TucsonMTB]

. . . Any suggestions on what exactly to use?
Yes, I do and it is based on experience. :)

Considering how little clearance you need, the rubber abrasive wheel that often comes with a Dremel is just the ticket. Hold the barrel so that the wheel is turning toward the bottom of the ramp to avoid it catching on the ramp and polish of a few thousandths of an inch of material from the end of ramp a little at a time between clearance checks. My clearance is the thickness of ordinary copy paper, from which I made my feeler gauge to check clearance with a fully assembled pistol. Your technique for checking clearance seems easier. I tried it today. The clearance I noted with just the frame, barrel, and slide lock in place appears to be the same as when I checked mine with a fully assembled pistol.

While you are removing material, try to retain the original shape of the edge you are working on for two reasons.
1. If the shape has any real function in the way rounds feed, it will still provide that benefit when you are finished.
2. If you have to send it in to Kahr, they will not even realize you have done anything to the ramp. That's a good thing.

This process is what I applied to both of my PM40's, neither of which has broken any followers since. The whole process from removing the barrel to final cleanup after a few strokes with the wheel should not take you more than about 10 minutes, if you are being careful. Less, if you want to be a "bubba". ;)

By the way, one of my two PM40's did go back to Kahr for unrelated warranty work some time after the polishing and I never heard anything from them about it.

Oh, and I broke more than half a dozen of the free followers Kahr sent before hitting the end of the ramp with that little rubber polishing wheel.

[zamboni]

Have you ever broken a follower or are you just trying to be proactive? IMHO, your video is not an accurate indication. You have the barrel resting on the plastic guide rails. With the gun assembled and functioning the barrel (and feed ramp) are raised at least a few millimeters.


It is a shame CS wasn't more helpful, but if you have broken a follower just take a little off as Tucson said. If you haven't broken one I wouldn't worry another minute about it.

[takem]

I tested it assembled with a strip of paper. It gets pinched so tight I can't get it out. It is hitting and there's marks on the follower where it hit. I'm being proactive because it's a matter of time for sure. It's not supposed to hit. Ian did say that. He said it's not supposed to hit and mine is not hitting or it would of broke. Obvious lie.

[CJB]

If I were doing it, I'd hold the dremel such that a sanding drum (probably the larger one) was perpendicular to the bore. That is, with the barrel in its normal horizontal position, the dremel would be straight up and down and just easing that material off. Don't worry about the lower edge of the new cut being sharp, but maybe just break the upper edge of that new cut. Just a little bit of a break radius, do that with a Craytex (rubber) wheel, and follow it up with a little polish on a felt wheel. Done.

Clean up your grinding crud on the barrel before reassembly. Don't forget the bore too. Also, cover your other parts (slide, frame, slide stop etc ) with a cloth to keep grinding crud off them. You don't want to get any of that in the works.

Caveats abound, but really, its a very very quick and easy task.

If nobody else wants the job, I volunteer to the Kahr "mohel" for this part of Florida! Thats how painless it is. It'll cost ya a beer.

[Tilos]

I tested it assembled with a strip of paper. It gets pinched so tight I can't get it out. It is hitting and there's marks on the follower where it hit. I'm being proactive because it's a matter of time for sure. It's not supposed to hit. Ian did say that. He said it's not supposed to hit and mine is not hitting or it would of broke. Obvious lie.

I would file across the follower where the contact mark is, and not go around the entire front radius as Bang_button pics show in the other thread, as the barrel will never contact the follower there.

That looks to be the weakest/thinnest section of the follower, and I suggest removing as little as possible to get clearance between the barrel/follower.
Something I'd try before messing with the barrel.
:D

[muggsy]

I don't believe that the follower coming into contact with the bottom of the feed ramp is the problem. I believe that the feed ramp slamming into the front of the follower during recoil is what's causing the followers to break. There's an old saying in the gunsmith's book of care and repair. "If it ain't broke don't fix it." Unless you are a certified gunsmith don't start grinding on the barrel. The barrel costs over $100 to replace. You can buy one hell of a lot of plastic followers for the price of a barrel. If you break more than one follower Kahr will rework your barrel for free and you won't have to worry about voiding your warranty.

[takem]

I don't believe that the follower coming into contact with the bottom of the feed ramp is the problem. I believe that the feed ramp slamming into the front of the follower during recoil is what's causing the followers to break. There's an old saying in the gunsmith's book of care and repair. "If it ain't broke don't fix it." Unless you are a certified gunsmith don't start grinding on the barrel. The barrel costs over $100 to replace. You can buy one hell of a lot of plastic followers for the price of a barrel. If you break more than one follower Kahr will rework your barrel for free and you won't have to worry about voiding your warranty.

I respectfully disagree with that sort of thinking. There are marks where it is slamming into it. It's a known problem. If it does not contact it it will probably not break. If it is hitting it it is much more likely to break. Lots of guns that people on this site own do not contact it and they don't have followers breaking. I'm making a connection. Ian told me it should not contact it it. My gun is not supposed to do this yet it does and they are telling me it has to break twice before it will be fixed. Maybe it won't break but my gun is "defective" and the problem will not be addressed. If there were two guns at the store and one has the follower contacting the feed ramp and the other is not, which one would you purchase? I know your brand loyalty may cloud your judgement on this but I think I've made my point of view very clear and reasonable. Thank you for your input.

[muggsy]

Ian isn't a gunsmith. Ian is a service rep. If your gun breaks a second follower Kahr will have a gunsmith repair it and it won't cost you a thing. If you screw up the feed ramp you'll pay for a new barrel and possibly void your warranty. It's your gun and your decision. I won't lose any sleep regardless of what you decide.

[jocko]

It looks like what Muggsy is saying is about what ur saying also. It is the feed ramp slamming into the follower, no doubt about it. call it what ever you want but that is what is causing it. One can do two things, IMO. #1 send it back if it does it abain and let kahr mod the feed ramp. #2, u can try moding the front of the follower itself to see if this will giv eu the clearanc eu need. It should be close anyway u look at it, but close is OK, contact is not. I broke one followe rin over 32K rounds, never happened again. I fully trust my gun also. I would not suggest u to do the feed ramp mod, let kahr do it, if that is what u desire. If it was me and ur clearance is as close as u state, then I would try doing the mod to the front of a follower and retest, at the worst u can ruin oly a follower, At the best u can correct it yourself and save alot of down time.

We are just trying to help here also. it is advice only, nuttin more

[muggsy]

Thanks, Jocko. You are much more fluent in the king's English than I. ( Hope Bawanna doesn't throw up a little in his mouth when he reads that last comment.) :)

[jocko]

well this new guy does not know ur a Moran, so I texed him to give him ur resume. You have the qualificatin of a piss ant, by the way. He is now cool with what u say. Yes I am very fluent in the english language to. Most here will attest to that. Just sayin

[getsome]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GGA1a4nyVs

Just dango sayin...:cool:

[takem]

problem solved. Went to the gun show today and made a trade. Done. Later

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc35/brad-hendrickson/IMG_1737_zpsddc5e759.jpg (http://s219.photobucket.com/user/brad-hendrickson/media/IMG_1737_zpsddc5e759.jpg.html)

[RRP]

So did you tell 'em your gun was defective?

[jocko]

Not sure I would trust any answer u get back on that either. It is what it is. Kinda makes me wonder sometimes why so many good members here do try to help a person when they come forward, only to be realy ignored. Oh well hope he loves the Smith, nice gun, not sure it could ever be a real pocket gun but if that is no big deal, then I say nice gun..

[Tinman507]

http://www.contentping.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/dont-feed-the-trolls.jpg

[muggsy]

You do the best you can to help someone and that's the thanks you get. No one, but no one is obligated in any way to take my advice regardless of the fact that it comes from 50 years of shooting experience. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I never argue opinions. I just present facts. A fool and his gun are soon parted. That's a fact.

[GROTMAN]

I just love stories with happy endings. :rolleyes:

[takem]

Not sure I would trust any answer u get back on that either. It is what it is. Kinda makes me wonder sometimes why so many good members here do try to help a person when they come forward, only to be realy ignored. Oh well hope he loves the Smith, nice gun, not sure it could ever be a real pocket gun but if that is no big deal, then I say nice gun..

not ignored. Called kahr to correct the problem. Decided I did not want to attempt it myself. I appreciated the input.

[takem]

You do the best you can to help someone and that's the thanks you get. No one, but no one is obligated in any way to take my advice regardless of the fact that it comes from 50 years of shooting experience. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I never argue opinions. I just present facts. A fool and his gun are soon parted. That's a fact.

50 years of shooting is irrelevant. Your advice was to keep using a defective gun. It's my carry gun not a plinker. I need it to work. Bottom line is it was defective and they would not fix it. I don't want to own a product from a company like that. There is nothing wrong with that even if it differs from your holy opinion. Typical behavior from a guy with too many posts. I'm sure you'll have plenty to say, in vain.

[takem]

I just read your posts again. Ha ha. Your ridiculous. So blinded by your brand loyalty. So glad I got rid of that lemon years ago.

[Bawanna]

Muggsy crossed the river a year ago. I'll give him your message when I get to the other side.

[Bobshouse]

Now that is weird. Hasn't posted since May 2014, logs on today, makes a post, a rude one at that...and nothing else.

[Bawanna]

Yup!

[verfolgt]

Yea, troll much?


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[Mike_usn_ret]

And once again I say...I will take all the POS Kahr firearms off anyones hands for the bargain price of $50 each.....I really ...really hate Kahrs and only doing this offer to help my fellow firearms owners.