Good Shoot

[muggsy]

Ex-cop shoots man in theater. Those were the headlines and the liberal media is siding with the shooting victim. The link posted is of a video tape of the incident.
The shooter is seated, the shooting victim towers over him. The seated shooter is assaulted by the shooting victim. The seated shooter draws his weapon and fires one shot. There is a disparity in age and size and the shooting victim initiates the action. The shooter is in fear of serious bodily harm or death. Was this a good shoot? You decide.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-florida-theater-shooting-bail-denied-20140207,0,1380543.story

[berettabone]

I don't think it was a good shoot. Just because someone towers over you, and throws popcorn at you, doesn't give you the justification needed to shoot someone. His wife was also injured. The video really doesn't show much.

[muggsy]

He didn't throw popcorn at him. He hit him in the face with the butt end of the box. Where I come from that's considered an assault. The shooting victim is standing. The shooter is seated and has no opportunity to retreat. The shooting victim is in close proximity to the seated shooter and the shooting victim is in a position to do the shooter great bodily harm. There is a disparity in age and size. The wife of the shooting victim was hit by the same same bullet as the shooting victim when she tried to deflect the gun. I say it was a good shoot.

[wyntrout]

That's one of the reasons I/we don't go to theaters. We like to watch movies on our big screen and pause it when we (I) need a potty break or to get more snacks... whatever. We don't have to put up with any other idiots' noise and other distractions. Unfortunately, my wife doesn't care for MY commentary, though.:rolleyes:

The ex-police captain seems to be a BUTT... in a nearly empty theater he sits behind someone and harasses them. I suppose he felt "entitled" because he had been a police captain and emboldened because he was armed to boot. He clearly leans over and comments repeatedly to the guy in front... instead of moving from behind them. He definitely overreacted in a situation he escalated.

Of course, I wasn't there and this is JMHO. But what was the ex-police CAPTAIN thinking... shooting at a family in a theater?!!

Wynn:)

[berettabone]

He didn't throw popcorn at him. He hit him in the face with the butt end of the box. Where I come from that's considered an assault. The shooting victim is standing. The shooter is seated and has no opportunity to retreat. The shooting victim is in close proximity to the seated shooter and the shooting victim is in a position to do the shooter great bodily harm. There is a disparity in age and size. The wife of the shooting victim was hit by the same same bullet as the shooting victim when she tried to deflect the gun. I say it was a good shoot.
Unfortunately, what you feel like doing, and what's legal are two different things............he had plenty of opportunity to move, whether he felt like it or not. Being ex LE, he should have known better, along with knowing the law. If we pulled our firearm out, every time someone pissed us off, we'd all be in prison. Common sense goes along way. Was he being assaulted? Maybe. Was it life threatening? No. Could it have escalated to that? Maybe. Lot's of maybe's....with firearms , you have to be positive.

[wyntrout]

The shooter got up at least once and came back and sat down behind that family... in the same seat... WTF was he thinking?

Wynn:rolleyes:

[Captquest]

Of course I wasn't there and I haven't seen all the evidence. But it doesn't look like a good shoot to me. I would hope to show a lot more restraint or simply avoid escalation of such a situation as a CCW. A Father and husband have been taken away over a stupid argument. The guy may have been an ******* but that's no reason to use lethal force on him.
I'd like to know how some of you would handle this situation (video). This happened on a military base so no one was armed, but what if it were anywhere else?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=800187426663907

[b4uqzme]

I'm not sure the video in convincing..... Either way. And I'm not confident the courts will even get it right. But I do take away one important lesson from this: BE NICE TO PEOPLE
! ......sheesh!

[RevRay]

What did I just read somewhere else ... Avoid ... Defuse ... Fight. He appears to have by-passed the first two and gone straight to the third.

[Longitude Zero]

The shooter got up at least once and came back and sat down behind that family... in the same seat... WTF was he thinking?

Wynn:rolleyes:


He has NO legal or moral obligation to find another seat. He went to report the other mans behavior. Geesh.

[RevRay]

Regardless of which side of the issue you end up on with this one ... I'm pretty sure we can all agree we would never want to end up in the same kind of scenario. If I ever have to shoot someone ... I hope I end up in an obviously more righteous situation.

[muggsy]

The shooter got up at least once and came back and sat down behind that family... in the same seat... WTF was he thinking?

Wynn:rolleyes:

I guess he was thinking that he'd sit next to his wife which is what he did.

[12GA]

Not a good shoot IMO-unless there is something that took place not captured by the video i.e., verbal threats by the soon-to-be-dead guy. Put aside the fact the STBDG was unarmed, and assume his body was a lethal weapon-there were options before using lethal force that the shooter could have chosen.

Me? I work to avoid altercations whenever possible-and have avoided shooting aggressors in much worse circumstances than the movie theater video shows. I wonder if the shooter regrets his decision...

[muggsy]

Unfortunately, what you feel like doing, and what's legal are two different things............he had plenty of opportunity to move, whether he felt like it or not. Being ex LE, he should have known better, along with knowing the law. If we pulled our firearm out, every time someone pissed us off, we'd all be in prison. Common sense goes along way. Was he being assaulted? Maybe. Was it life threatening? No. Could it have escalated to that? Maybe. Lot's of maybe's....with firearms , you have to be positive.

I don't know what the former Police Captain was thinking or what he was saying, but the victim had no right to hit him in the face. You realize that this film was shot in infrared and that the theater was darkened. I do know what I'd be thinking if someone hit me in the face in a darkened theater and it probably was similar to what the police captain was thinking. We don't know who was seated first, but we do know that the Police Captain sought the assistance of the theater manager before the attack upon him was started. We also know that the victim was an inconsiderate son-of-a-***** with no regard for others. He could have made his call from the back of the theater without disturbing anyone. One thing is for sure. He won't do it again. And, if you wait until you are certain to draw your gun that maybe far too late.

[Longitude Zero]

Regardless of which side of the issue you end up on with this one ... I'm pretty sure we can all agree we would never want to end up in the same kind of scenario. If I ever have to shoot someone ... I hope I end up in an obviously more righteous situation.


Absolutely

[12GA]

We also know that the victim was an inconsiderate son-of-a-***** with no regard for others. He could have made his call from the back of the theater without disturbing anyone. One thing is for sure. He won't do it again. And, if you wait until you are certain to draw your gun that maybe far too late.

The STBDG was texting, not talking on the phone.

[TheTman]

There are not enough facts to make an informed decision. :D


What exactly was he hit with? A popcorn box? A cellphone? Was it worth shooting someone over?

I don't know if it was a good shoot or not, I'd call it an unnecessary shoot.
I imagine the whole thing could have been avoided with a little common courtesy. Either party could have moved to another seat. That's what I usually do if there is room and people near me are bothering me.


I hate to see this type of thing happen, it gives the anti CC crowd another instance to complain about.

[Bob T]

The STBDG was texting, not talking on the phone.

And it was during the previews....

[12GA]

And it was during the previews....

Must have been some damn good previews...

[RevRay]

Here's where I think we 2nd Amendment supporters need to be careful on this one. At some point we need to be willing to admit that there are some situations where discretion is the better part of valor. We shouldn't always feel the need to justify every "self-defense" shooting just because the shooter practices his 2nd Amendment rights by carrying a gun. If we truly mean what we say when we say, "I hope I never have to shoot someone.", then we need to admit that sometimes a shooting should not have occurred. I would hate to ever end up in a situation where I have to hope to get off on a technicality. I carry a gun to defend my life and the lives of those I love. I don't carry a gun to defend my right to sit wherever I jolly well please in a movie theatre.

[RRP]

~ I don't carry a gun to defend my right to sit wherever I jolly well please in a movie theatre.

Especially when there appears to be more empty seats than occupied.

[Ugly_Dog]

looks like the jury will have it's hands full!! Glad I'm not on it.

[berettabone]

I don't know what the former Police Captain was thinking or what he was saying, but the victim had no right to hit him in the face. You realize that this film was shot in infrared and that the theater was darkened. I do know what I'd be thinking if someone hit me in the face in a darkened theater and it probably was similar to what the police captain was thinking. We don't know who was seated first, but we do know that the Police Captain sought the assistance of the theater manager before the attack upon him was started. We also know that the victim was an inconsiderate son-of-a-***** with no regard for others. He could have made his call from the back of the theater without disturbing anyone. One thing is for sure. He won't do it again. And, if you wait until you are certain to draw your gun that maybe far too late.
I agree with everything you say, but none of it gives you the right to kill someone. If your a 71 year old man, you should know better, physically and mentally.........and after he spoke with management, he should have found another seat..............was it his right to go back to that same seat? Yes. Was it his right to believe that the other's actions would stop? Yes. Does everything you want, always come to fruition? No. Swallow a bit of pride and find another friggen seat. It's not worth it, as he is finding out.

[b4uqzme]

Here's where I think we 2nd Amendment supporters need to be careful on this one. At some point we need to be willing to admit that there are some situations where discretion is the better part of valor. We shouldn't always feel the need to justify every "self-defense" shooting just because the shooter practices his 2nd Amendment rights by carrying a gun. If we truly mean what we say when we say, "I hope I never have to shoot someone.", then we need to admit that sometimes a shooting should not have occurred. I would hate to ever end up in a situation where I have to hope to get off on a technicality. I carry a gun to defend my life and the lives of those I love. I don't carry a gun to defend my right to sit wherever I jolly well please in a movie theatre.

RevRay.....you are my absolute, flat-out hero. Thanks!

[muggsy]

The STBDG was texting, not talking on the phone.

I never said that he was talking on the phone. He was texting. And every time he hit a number his phone was beeping and disturbing the others around him. Regardless of what he was doing and regardless of what the former police captain was saying to him he had no right to hit the retired police captain in the face. That is a physical assault. Someone who physically assaults me in a darkened theater risks being shot. According to the law the assailant need not be armed. There only needs to be a disparity in age, numbers, or force. The person being attacked needs only to be in fear of his life or of great bodily harm to use deadly force. You guys need to brush up on the law.

[T0RMENT]

Shooter appears to sit back down at 53 seconds into the video, then 4 seconds later at approximately 57 seconds into video it looks to me like the shooter in the back kicks the back of the chair that is in front of him rather hard and abrupt. He appears pissed about what ever was going on. The victim then gets up and actually takes the shooters popcorn container and throws it in his face at 1:04 of video. 1~2 seconds later the shot is fired.

I'm not siding one way or the other here, simply pointing out what I see in the video.

[Bill]

What did I just read somewhere else ... Avoid ... Defuse ... Fight. He appears to have by-passed the first two and gone straight to the third.

As CCW permit holders it is our obligation! to follow this advice. We must show good judgement if we are to retain our 2nd amendment rights. And, it is just the right thing to do. Life is not to be casually taken over so useless an encounter as this.

Whoever above made the distinction of legal vs right was spot on.

[b4uqzme]

As CCW permit holders it is our obligation! to follow this advice. We must show good judgement if we are to retain our 2nd amendment rights. And, it is just the right thing to do. Life is not to be casually taken over so useless an encounter as this.

Whoever above made the distinction of legal vs right was spot on.

Bingo. I've been thinking on this hard and I keep ending at bad shoot. It may turn out to be legal but it's still bad: needless, avoidable.....these guys did us no favors.

[muggsy]

No shooting is good, but from the evidence that I've seen I believe that this shooting was within the law. If more evidence is presented I may change my opinion, but for now it stands. I don't want to have to shoot anyone, but that day may come and I'm committed not to hesitate. I'd rather live out the rest of my life in prison than be buried prematurely.

[b4uqzme]

Agreed. And with knowing that I will not hesitate comes a great responsibility mentioned by several here: I will go out of my way to avoid a confrontation just in case it escalates. I'm not too proud to let us all go home alive.

[muggsy]

I don't go out of my way to look for trouble. I try to avoid it when I can. I can be one of the nicest persons that you'll ever meet, but some confrontations are unavoidable and I don't intent to be the one carried out. If someone were to tell me that my actions were disturbing the others around me I believe that I would stop. I damn sure wouldn't lose my temper and hit that person in the face. He might have a gun.

[b4uqzme]

Again, agreed. In this case It seems Mr Reeves failed in his duty to avoid this confrontation. And it appears that it should have been easily avoided. There are a lot of dumba$$es out there who WILL escalate a situation.

[WLEEP]

The local media (if you believe them) said the shooter admitted in an interview that, "If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have done it." Pretty damning words out of defendants mouth.


As has been said a thousand times, if you're ever involved in a serious or especially deadly incident, never say a word to the authorities until you've spoken with your attorney.


Personally, I'm moving to the other side of the theater, but I haven't been in a movie theater in over twenty five years for just this very reason.

[WLEEP]

Again, agreed. In this case It seems Mr Reeves failed in his duty to avoid this confrontation. And it appears that it should have been easily avoided. There are a lot of dumba$$es out there who WILL escalate a situation.


+1


And he of all people should have known better.

[12GA]

I never said that he was talking on the phone.

Of course you did, right here http://www.kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=287158&postcount=14 . Unless you are saying that a "call" and a "text" are one and the same? :rolleyes:


We also know that the victim was an inconsiderate son-of-a-***** with no regard for others. He could have made his call from the back of the theater without disturbing anyone. One thing is for sure. He won't do it again. And, if you wait until you are certain to draw your gun that maybe far too late.

[berettabone]

I don't go out of my way to look for trouble. I try to avoid it when I can. I can be one of the nicest persons that you'll ever meet, but some confrontations are unavoidable and I don't intent to be the one carried out. If someone were to tell me that my actions were disturbing the others around me I believe that I would stop. I damn sure wouldn't lose my temper and hit that person in the face. He might have a gun.
I surely hope, that you don't go to the movies. There are so many jag bags out there. A bit of popcorn in the face, and you're going to shoot them? I believe he will be charged and convicted of 2nd degree murder. The other person did not display a weapon. I don't care what the law says on written paper. These things never go as written. Seeing that he could have just chosen a different seat, will be his downfall................a hole or no a hole.http://kahrtalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[addictedhealer]

Guy is doomed. Such a waste in both parties. Something so stupid causes the rest of his life in prison and a family without a husband/dad.

Guy coulda been a ahole but so was the shooter for acting childish and not moving.

The former police officer is going to spend life in prison. Along with the man who shot the teenagers in the SUV.

Being frightened or intimidated does not warrant murder.

[John222]

Guilty of 4 out of 5 counts. Hung jury on the 1st degree murder. Looks like he is going to be looking at bars for a long time, even if they don't retry him for the murder charge.

[muggsy]

Of course you did, right here http://www.kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=287158&postcount=14 . Unless you are saying that a "call" and a "text" are one and the same? :rolleyes:

A call and a text are the same to me. He was using his phone in a theater and disturbing those around him.

[muggsy]

Guilty of 4 out of 5 counts. Hung jury on the 1st degree murder. Looks like he is going to be looking at bars for a long time, even if they don't retry him for the murder charge.

Remind me never to use his lawyer. Has he filed his appeal yet?

[WMac19]

Good shoot or not, the video may help to provide reasonable doubt. The video aids the defense more than it hurts, imo.

[John222]

Again, agreed. In this case It seems Mr Reeves failed in his duty to avoid this confrontation. And it appears that it should have been easily avoided. There are a lot of dumba$$es out there who WILL escalate a situation.

Yes, The theater was almost empty and after he left and complained to the manager, he returned and once again sat right behind the cell phone guy. And from witness testimony he just kept harassing the cell phone guy. I guess he thought the special cop laws were going to protect him.

[SlowBurn]

Good shoot or not, the video may help to provide reasonable doubt. The video aids the defense more than it hurts, imo.
Agree.

[SlowBurn]

Guilty of 4 out of 5 counts. Hung jury on the 1st degree murder. Looks like he is going to be looking at bars for a long time, even if they don't retry him for the murder charge.


Different case

[muggsy]

The four out of five conviction was for a case where white man shot a black kid over loud rap music. It had nothing to do with the movie theater case.