SCCY - What do owners think?

[pbagley]

Last weekend I gave in to temptation and picked up a cheap SCCY CPX2 9mm. Yes, I had read reviews and I knew there were some bad experiences out there. But I also read about bad experiences with Kahr before I bought my CM9 and did so anyway.

It is bloody cold here in Minnesota right now, so no trip to the range yet. While I'm waiting for a warm day to visit the range I thought I'd see if anyone else on the forum owns a SCCY. I'd like to hear what your experience is with your gun. Pros, cons, and everything in between.

I'll start out with my observations here at home.

First, my initial quality impression is that SCCY seems about on par with my Taurus 738TCP. I know there are major differences in design, not just size and caliber. I expect the SCCY to run longer based on the design differences. The impression comes from feel. Slide operation, trigger, grip, balance, etc. I'm not sure I'll like the grip or not, I'll save that assessment for the range. The SCCY looks like it has a better polish on the feed ramp compared to the Taurus. I like the trigger better on the Taurus - apples to oranges comparison since the Taurus has sent around 500 rounds downrange. Most of this is totally subjective, admittedly. I think the quality is better than the one KelTec I have handled, but since it's been over 6 months since I had the KelTec in my hands this is not a side by side comparison. My memory of the KelTec is not all that favorable, mostly based in the feel and accuracy of the sample I tried.

Second, it seems to carry IWB a little better than my CM9, not quite as good as my CW45. The CM9 seems to nestle down a little deep into my waistband, and the SCCY and CW45 both ride just enough higher for an easy draw without being too high. The CM9 and SCCY both dig into my hip, worse when standing than sitting. The CW45 doesn't, which is odd. Perhaps it is just the longer contact area that makes the CW more comfortable.

Third and last for today, I like the take down of the SCCY. The ability to use a case rim to pull the take down pin is very clever. Funny that taking it apart was one of the first things I did. I've been this way since I was a kid. It probably is not a bad thing that the new SCCY was cleaned and lubed before it ever got near the range.

I'm looking forward to hearing what other owners have to say. For the money I think this is a pretty decent firearm. Time will tell if it is as good a value as the Kahrs I own, or the Taurus for that matter.

[Alfonse]

I had never heard of it. Your post got me to google it. Sounds like a good buy to me. Have fun with it.

[rahmann62]

I have heard great things about them!

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

[warbird1]

I figure that I may pick one up at the next gun show. Great price and a great warranty. Thanks for the initial review.

[mr surveyor]

they've come a long way since stealing George Kelgren's KelTec P11 design, and later getting sued by a major Vodka producer over their original choice of names

[hardluk1]

Those EX kel tec guys have made a nice updated p-11 with the cpx-2 . The -2 variation seems to be one of the better small handguns out there and sccy jumps all over any problems a owner manages to find. They had more than enough problems with the -1 version and seems to have a good shooter now.


Plus Like with the p-11 the cpx-2 will work with s&w model 59 mags, that's 15 extra rounds as back up.

[muggsy]

I didn't buy my first 1911 until 1968. I like for a gun manufacturer to work all the bugs out first. :)

[Longitude Zero]

They seem to be finally getting upon the right track. Unlike the pos Diamondback 9/380's that are still junk.

[Bill K]

I figure that I may pick one up at the next gun show. Great price and a great warranty. Thanks for the initial review.

"Best of all, every SCCY is backed with a No-Questions-Asked Lifetime Warranty that stays with the gun."

[berettabone]

Last weekend I gave in to temptation and picked up a cheap SCCY CPX2 9mm. Yes, I had read reviews and I knew there were some bad experiences out there. But I also read about bad experiences with Kahr before I bought my CM9 and did so anyway.

It is bloody cold here in Minnesota right now, so no trip to the range yet. While I'm waiting for a warm day to visit the range I thought I'd see if anyone else on the forum owns a SCCY. I'd like to hear what your experience is with your gun. Pros, cons, and everything in between.

I'll start out with my observations here at home.

First, my initial quality impression is that SCCY seems about on par with my Taurus 738TCP. I know there are major differences in design, not just size and caliber. I expect the SCCY to run longer based on the design differences. The impression comes from feel. Slide operation, trigger, grip, balance, etc. I'm not sure I'll like the grip or not, I'll save that assessment for the range. The SCCY looks like it has a better polish on the feed ramp compared to the Taurus. I like the trigger better on the Taurus - apples to oranges comparison since the Taurus has sent around 500 rounds downrange. Most of this is totally subjective, admittedly. I think the quality is better than the one KelTec I have handled, but since it's been over 6 months since I had the KelTec in my hands this is not a side by side comparison. My memory of the KelTec is not all that favorable, mostly based in the feel and accuracy of the sample I tried.

Second, it seems to carry IWB a little better than my CM9, not quite as good as my CW45. The CM9 seems to nestle down a little deep into my waistband, and the SCCY and CW45 both ride just enough higher for an easy draw without being too high. The CM9 and SCCY both dig into my hip, worse when standing than sitting. The CW45 doesn't, which is odd. Perhaps it is just the longer contact area that makes the CW more comfortable.

Third and last for today, I like the take down of the SCCY. The ability to use a case rim to pull the take down pin is very clever. Funny that taking it apart was one of the first things I did. I've been this way since I was a kid. It probably is not a bad thing that the new SCCY was cleaned and lubed before it ever got near the range.

I'm looking forward to hearing what other owners have to say. For the money I think this is a pretty decent firearm. Time will tell if it is as good a value as the Kahrs I own, or the Taurus for that matter.
Sorry, you lost me when you compared the quality to a Taurushttp://kahrtalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Longitude Zero]

"Best of all, every SCCY is backed with a No-Questions-Asked Lifetime Warranty that stays with the gun."


Kinda like the Gensu knife malarkey. If SCCY ever goes out of business then the warranty is worth ********.

[O'Dell]

I've never had a Taurus 380, but I've had bad experiences with two Tauruses out of three. I've never had a SCCY either, but I heard far too many complaints when they came out. Personally, I won't buy either one.

[pbagley]

First, Thanks to those who posted. I appreciate your thoughts.

Comparison to Taurus - I see your point. I researched before buying my 738TCP and I made sure the serial number ended in C before I bought. My research said that A's meant stay away and B's meant quality was a crap shoot. So far my C serial gun has been good, except for the lack of polish on the feed ramp. SD rounds feed well, but practice RN's sometimes hang up on the ramp, especially if the load is a little light. A little time with some 1000 wet-dry and some flitz seems to have helped.

Tonight I compared the 738TCP, CM9, and CPX2 and found they all have very near the same sight radius. Curious. The SCCY trigger is still heavy and not as smooth as the CM9 (900 rounds) or the Taurus (500 rounds). I think the SCCY will have a heavy trigger no matter how many times I pull it. Eventually someone will have a spring kit, but for this kind of gun I don't see the point. It will never be a target gun, and for what it is I can forgive a heavy trigger.

[hardknocks1]

I can honestly say I never heard someone call a firearm good when it don't feed properly.
no offense really but I hope its not your carry gun.

[pbagley]

I can honestly say I never heard someone call a firearm good when it don't feed properly.
no offense really but I hope its not your carry gun.

Excellent observation on the Taurus 738TCP. I obviously did not write what I thought I did, or at least it didn't read the way I intended. Let me try again.

The feed issues with factory RN practice loads were during break in and before polishing the feed ramp. The break in rounds included PPU, TulAmmo BrassMax, and Blazer Brass. Oddly the Blazer Brass was most problematic. Since the cases were closer to me and easier to find I suspect they are a tiny bit lighter loads than the others.

Some light reloads (after break in and feed ramp polishing) have also had the occasional FTF problems, but that's the reloader's fault. Some of these test loads were so light that occasionally the slide stop didn't lock after the last round and the brass was at my feet. In comparison factory ammo is found 6 to 8 feet straight behind me. I'm a bit surprised that any of these too light reloads fed at all. Lesson learned, do not load 50 when trying a new powder. My earlier post reflects my frustration with my reloads, and that my feed ramp polishing is not quite perfect. I'm used to a slick 1911 where if the slide goes far enough back to pick up a round then it will feed that round.

SD loads have always fed perfectly. Always. Of course I completed a break in of 200 factory RN's through it before I ever tried any SD ammo. I think that the HydraShocks are better quality than the factory RN's. They certainly are more accurate.

Since all SD round testing has been totally reliable, and all factory RN's have also been reliable since completing the 200 round break in, I feel fine using this as a carry gun. My son tried it a few months ago, putting 100 rounds of Blazer Brass though it in under 20minutes. I expected him to like my CM9 better, but the little TCP was his favorite.

Back to the SCCY? The forecast says it will be near 32f this weekend, so I'm planning a range trip.

[pbagley]

Quick update - A friend and I shopped at lunch today at a local retailer. They had something in the case that looked a lot like the SCCY. It turned out to be a KelTec P11. Same two tone finish for $10 less than the SCCY, but only one magazine. With two magazines the cost is $15 more than the SCCY. The KelTec in black over grey was $20 less.

Out of curiosity I checked out the KelTec. First observation - the grip is thinner even though the magazine capacity is the same. I'd have to put them side by side to to see if the grip is longer, or if any of the dimensions are significantly different.

The dealer sells KelTec, does not sell SCCY, and so they had nothing nice to say about the competition. After a casual handling of the KelTec I do not see a great quality difference. It has a slightly different feel due to the thinner grip, More like a 1911 width compared to the SCCY's more square handle. I couldn't talk my friend into buying it so we could compare them side by side, he was more interested in a Shield in .40 S&W.

[berettabone]

Sounds like your friend is a smart man. A Shield is a Cadillac in comparison.

[mr surveyor]

Quick update - A friend and I shopped at lunch today at a local retailer. They had something in the case that looked a lot like the SCCY. It turned out to be a KelTec P11. Same two tone finish for $10 less than the SCCY, but only one magazine. With two magazines the cost is $15 more than the SCCY. The KelTec in black over grey was $20 less.

Out of curiosity I checked out the KelTec. First observation - the grip is thinner even though the magazine capacity is the same. I'd have to put them side by side to to see if the grip is longer, or if any of the dimensions are significantly different.

The dealer sells KelTec, does not sell SCCY, and so they had nothing nice to say about the competition. After a casual handling of the KelTec I do not see a great quality difference. It has a sSlightly different feel due to the thinner grip, More like a 1911 width compared to the SCCY's more square handle. I couldn't talk my friend into buying it so we could compare them side by side, he was more interested in a Shield in .40 S&W.


sometimes I think my posts are invisible on this forum:rolleyes:

[pbagley]

they've come a long way since stealing George Kelgren's KelTec P11 design, and later getting sued by a major Vodka producer over their original choice of names

I saw it, and I appreciated the contribution to the conversation.

They said the much of this at the shop today. Still they made their preference to the KelTec in the case over the SCCY they do not carry very apparent. Just one opinion, and some have the opposite.

[Longitude Zero]

I might try the SCCY one day but IMHO Kel-Tec has always been and will always be JUNK.

[DeaconKC]

I have only handled a SCCY at a shop, out of curiosity. I hope they have the bugs worked out as it seemed like a good gun. Some folks don't like Taurus or Keltec or even Sig. I have a Keltec PF9 that has over 500 rounds through it and runs like a champ. Give yours a fair break in and make sure it runs on your carry ammo. Good luck, and thanks for the updates.

[O'Dell]

I have only handled a SCCY at a shop, out of curiosity. I hope they have the bugs worked out as it seemed like a good gun. Some folks don't like Taurus or Keltec or even Sig. I have a Keltec PF9 that has over 500 rounds through it and runs like a champ. Give yours a fair break in and make sure it runs on your carry ammo. Good luck, and thanks for the updates.

I'd be willing to bet that yours has the later barrel. I had an earlier one that was VERY ammo finicky. It wouldn't even feed WWB or Federal bulk reliably.

[pbagley]

Sounds like your friend is a smart man. A Shield is a Cadillac in comparison.

Take a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2xuspv0ZlE

[pbagley]

As long as I'm on a roll... I was a little defensive concerning the 738TCP and feed issues. Most recent issues having to do with very light reloads. I just ran across a couple of YouTube videos on fixing the feeding problems with these little guns. It turns out that the magazine is the culprit. The rounds are not allowed to tip up into the chamber by too tight front edge of the feed lips. With the slide not travelling all the way to the rear there is less spring pressure to muscle the round into the chamber. Not a problem with the SD rounds since they are full power loads.

You learn something new every day.

Monday is looking warm, and my company gives us President's Day. I'm looking forward to some fresh air and exercise trudging through the snow from the firing line to the target stands and back. Plus it is best to shovel behind the firing line if you pick up your brass.

[berettabone]

Take a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2xuspv0ZlE
Don't own one of these eitherhttp://kahrtalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[pbagley]

Saturday update - YouTube videos for people that have a lot of time on their hands. Not so much for these two, but YouTube tends to capture you and keep you watching one after another for hours on end.

On topic for the SCCY - Gun Torture Tests:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZDyyBxZzP4

And they finally break their SCCY CPX2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzYm_CqMZG8

[DeaconKC]

Here's Hickock45 on one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTgFs-m59RY

[DeaconKC]

O'Dell, mine has run on WWB and Remington bulk very well. When I got it it had a couple FTF in the first few mags, but since then has been totally reliable. It does like the old Black talons, which is what it is loaded with it.

[TheShadow]

I ordered mine from Buds and will pick it up at PSA on monday. Will be taking it to the range later in the week. Will video it just as I did the CW9 and will post my results on YT just as I did the CW9. Good or bad.

Terry

[pbagley]

Range Day, finally. 8 days of ownership and today was the first day above 25f. Still below freezing, but nice enough.

First 10 I did not hit the repair center at 25 yards. Next 10 I tried shooting left, right, high, low, combinations, nothing. Finally I added more paper to hopefully see where the thing was hitting.
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/p2170310.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=628&u=13629574)
This one concerned me:
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/p2170311.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=629&u=13629574)
A new gun should not be key-holing. I saw another on the paper in the next 10 shots. Hits seemed to be getting closer to point of aim so I tried 10 shots on a target.
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/p2170312.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=630&u=13629574)
These were rounds 41 to 50. First box done, 5 out of 10 hit the repair center. Much better than the first 10.

I shot another 50 Federal 115gr factory loads, including twice filling each magazine to 10 rounds. Impressions - felt recoil is less than a CM9. Trigger is sharply squared. The countour was not a real problem, but the trigger has a little issue at the bottom. The fat of your finger pad hanging below the trigger can get pinched when the gun fires. A smooth rounded trigger with less of a pinch point like on the CM9 is better.

With 100 rounds of factory down range I started load testing using the CM9. I wanted to see how a load felt in a +p rated gun before I tried it in the SCCY. I was also checking primers to see how hot the loads were. If the primer was flattened at all then no go in the SCCY. I shot 25 of my reloads to see how the SCCY accuracy compared to the Kahr. The CM9 was better.

Bottom line:
- 125 rounds fired
- 100% functional, no failures.
- one magazine was quite difficult to load, the other was fine.
. The problem magazine was the one I changed the base on, possible user error.
- Accuracy was poor with all ammo used.
. Some key-holing, some rounds far out to the edges or completely outside the 24"by 24" target area.

I need to contact SCCY about the accuracy and key-holing issue.

[TheShadow]

Thanks for that report! I just picked mine up today. I'll be going to the range friday (supposed to be 75 degrees) and will report back. I'm interested to see how mine compares with yours as to accuracy and keyhole issue. I agree about the squareness of the trigger. Since SCCY only wants 5 bucks for a trigger I'll get one and re-contour it.

Terry

[pbagley]

That is an excellent idea. Nice and smooth and rounded perhaps?

[TheShadow]

Yes, exactly. The trigger is plastic. How much I can remove and still maintain the needed strength depends on just how hollow it is. That's why I'm going to work on an extra.

Terry

[mp95b]

My brother in-law owns a 1st gen. CPX-2 the slide stop is glockish and very difficult to use. It appears that the Gen.2 has one with a little more purchase...... Overall not bad, and a really nice price!

[pbagley]

SCCY Contact Form (on their web site) filled and sent:
Comments:
I'm contacting you about improving the accuracy of my CPX2. In
my first range session I found that the first 10 shots did not
hit a 25 yard repair center (standard timed and rapid center) at
25 yards using Federal Champion 115gr RN factory ammunition.
After expanding the target area to 24" by 24" I found that only 7
of 10 were on the paper with many shots going high.
Most concerning were two key holes, both high and right, in
the first 50 rounds. The best group in the first 125 founds has
been 5 out of 10 on a repair center (1x, 2 9's, 2 7's, photo
available on request).
You may want to say it is the shooter. In many cases you
could be right. In this case maybe not. I am a former bullseye
competitor with an expert classification. I am able to put 10
shots out of 10 onto a 25 yard repair center (at 25 yards) using
a Kahr CM9, a Taurus 738TCP, and a S&W 642 (as well as other
short sight radius firearms). Typically the best groups have
been when using premium SD ammo, but lower cost factory practice
ammo has also held this level of accuracy for me.
After my range session I cleaned the CPX2 and found the bore
to be quite rough.
On a positive note, the CPX2 had no failures of any kind in
the first 125 rounds.
What can be done to improve the accuracy of my CPX2? I'd like
to eliminate the key-holing and get the group sizes down into the
6-8" range with factory 115gr rn ammunition.

Thank you,

- Paul

I'll update this thread with their reply.

[mikemc53]

I owned a SCCY cpx2 for about 7 months. I actually liked the gun but just never felt it was going to be reliable enough for me to EDC. I sold it and bought my CM9 - which turned out to be a great move.

The SCCY is solidly built with excellent customer service. I found them great to work with and they truly do stand solidly behind their product. The fact that I had to send it back twice in a few month period of time just kind of sapped my confidence in the gun. It may have been (and stayed) perfect after the second repair but I just couldn't get myself to hang on to it.

My CM9 has been flawless but I know there are others who've had issues. To me it's all about what makes you, as the owner, comfortable. I think online reviews can be helpful but, as the OP noted, every single gun manufacturer out there has had dissatisfied customers and those are usually the ones posting on forums or writing reviews.

You won't hear me bashing any particular brand as junk because I have seen and known of plenty of pricier models that had "issues" so, say what you will, but you DON"T always get what you pay for. It's about personal preference and only the person buying/deciding can make that call.

By the way, the SCCY, to me had a bit more recoil than my CM9 but that's all relative. I will say that the CM9 conceals slightly easier (somewhat slimmer) and the trigger is much cleaner and smoother on the Kahr. Would I ever buy another SCCY? Maybe...ya never know.

[Megawatt]

My CPX2 was shooting high so I got a lower rear sight from SCCY for free. Changed it out and the grouping of the POA and POI was greatly improved. The 10 round mags hold 11 rounds with no modification and has been functioning 100% so far (about 4 months of ownership). Except for magazine capacity and warranty, I say my CW9 and PM9 are better in every way. The SCCY manual does state "+P CARTRIDGES SHOULD NEVER BE USED IN THE MODEL CPX".

Is it a good gun for the $$? I would says it can be as I got one for under $300 out the door. But you really need to know its limitations.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p310/joe800mw/guns/01CF3D33-18A1-4D14-BE97-216F8BFA216E_zpsuunswcsi.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/joe800mw/media/guns/01CF3D33-18A1-4D14-BE97-216F8BFA216E_zpsuunswcsi.jpg.html)

[TheShadow]

They must have strengthened the Gen 2 because my manual says, "limited " and "No more than 50 rounds +P per session."

http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y520/theshadow56/manual_zpsbcef3d38.jpg (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/theshadow56/media/manual_zpsbcef3d38.jpg.html)

Terry

[Megawatt]

They must have strengthened the Gen 2 because my manual says, "limited " and "No more than 50 rounds +P per session."

Terry

My CPX-2 was made in September 23, 2013. It is a Gen 2. Looks like they have some publication issues to sort out.

[89grand]

I have a CPX-2 and think it's a great gun for the money ($259), so far anyway. I've only had it out once, last Sunday, but I put about 80 rounds through it with zero malfunctions. That's not enough to declare it totally reliable, but it's a start.

One thing I'd like to mention is that the magazine springs are often installed backward. I have 3 mags, and I had to swap the springs around on all 3 of them because as they came, the springs were installed in a way that would make the follower nose down, instead of up. I find that pretty absurd, but at least it is easy to do.

I'm going to need some time to adjust to the trigger as it's a lot different than any of my other handguns, but with practice I think it will be fine for its intended use, and that isn't to be a range gun.

For what I know, limited +P's are fine. I can't imagine anyone wanting to shoot those full time considering the cost. I think they'd be perfect for carry rounds, and enough to feel good about carrying them, but who shoots a steady diet of rounds that cost over $1 each?

[pbagley]

Update on the SCCY contact form:

I received this e-mail from SCCY (support@sccy.com):
Dear, Mr. Bagley please give the factory a call and ask for Brandon. He is one of our techs and would be happy to assist you. The number is 386-322-6336.

Chris Jones
Sales Manager
Email: chrisj@sccy.com
Cell: 678-758-3204
------------------------

I called Brandon today and described the problem. Of course he tried to pass my problem off as poor marksmanship... or being unfamiliar with small subcompact firearms. Once I explained that I've been shooting NRA bullseye since 1981 and that I can keep 10 for 10 shots on a standard Timed/Rapid repair center at 25 yards using a S&W 642, Kahr cm9, and Taurus 738TCP I think he began to listen. Then I described the two keyholes. Now he thinks we have a barrel problem. He passed me along to Jason.

Jason and I had the same conversation about my marksmanship, though a little shorter this time. Jason says he wants my barrel to look at, with a short description of the issue. He says he will also send a shorter rear sight to allow me the option of having point of aim sighting instead of the 6 o'clock hold that the current sights require. I expect this will result in a 6 o'clock hold using 124 gr bullets - Jason said they use 115gr in their testing so this will be an experiment I will need to carry out.

Last I spoke to someone else, and I missed her name. Sorry. She is e-mailing a return mailing label to send the barrel back to them for Jason.

All of the conversations were polite and friendly, even when they were questioning my marksmanship. :rolleyes: No problem on that point. Many have questioned, some were later convinced through demonstration. And I hate to sound defensive, but I've put a lot of work into developing this particular skill. Most people would have achieved a Master classification after this much effort and ammo, so I suppose I'm being held back by my natural lack of native skills and making up for it is hard work and practice.

I'll post back to this thread once the new barrel is here.

[pbagley]

Quick update. Later the same day Danice called me back. My e-mail address was bouncing. There was a problem with b's and v's being switched in the address, and as she read it to me it sure sounded correct. I ended up using the old phonic alphabet (LE, not Military) to get it straightened out. Problem fixed, shipping label and return form received.

I made an attempt to photograph the bore before I sent the barrel back. I think I saw the problem, but capturing a digital image of what I saw was difficult. Here's the best of my photos.
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/sccy_c10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=637&u=13629574)

You can see the headspacing step at the end of the chamber, but then there is a second step in the forcing cone. There are scratches in the rifling grooves following the rotation, but at the forcing cone, the start of rifling, there is a cut straight down the barrel, across the lands. This looks odd to me.

A second view:
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/sccy_c11.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=638&u=13629574)

Something I did not notice until this morning is that the second step seems to be off center. There is more of a step on one side than the other. This may just be an illusion in the photos. I didn't even notice the second step, down the barrel from the chamber, until I I found it in these photos this morning.

If I were to guess I'd say that the forcing cone may be a little over-size. This may allow a bullet to enter the rifling a little canted. The offset step in the forcing cone could aggravate the situation causing even more bullet upset entering the rifling. The more upset the bullet, the more chance for wobble. More wobble leads to instability and potential tumbling in flight.

Or I could be full of it.

When the new barrel gets here I'll update with more photos. Would it be helpful to compare it to the Kahr CM9 barrel?

I wonder if I could talk SCCY into making a match barrel. Decent cut rifling, mirror polish so cast bullets would not lead, perhaps a shorter throat similar to what I think the Kahr has? I think the little CPX2 has a lot of potential. A few little tweaks and we'd have something really good.

[pbagley]

I owned a SCCY cpx2 for about 7 months. I actually liked the gun but just never felt it was going to be reliable enough for me to EDC. I sold it and bought my CM9 - which turned out to be a great move.

<SNIP>

Hi Mike, Slow I am to pick up on your comment. Sorry, and I appreciate you sharing your experience as an owner. Even if it was as a former owner. The information is valuable.

Jason and Brandon were both friendly and good to talk to. One thing I would offer to Jason, assuming he is the one that is doing the warranty repairs, is that a product sent back to the factory for warranty repair needs to be perfect before it is returned to the customer. If you miss something and the customer has to send it in for a second round of warranty repair your reputation takes a big hit. Bigger than from the first repair. It doesn't matter if this is a car, a TV set, or a gun. I had the impression (especially from Brandon) that they are very busy at SCCY. I know they need to keep the costs low, but it may be worth an additional $5 a unit to hire an additional final inspection person to cut down on the number of customer support calls and warranty repairs. This is a business calculation - reducing the number of returns reduces costs in customer support. The intangible is the increase in customer satisfaction and customer loyalty. Blue Sky Value.

[mikemc53]

[/QUOTE] I had the impression (especially from Brandon) that they are very busy at SCCY. I know they need to keep the costs low, but it may be worth an additional $5 a unit to hire an additional final inspection person to cut down on the number of customer support calls and warranty repairs. This is a business calculation - reducing the number of returns reduces costs in customer support. The intangible is the increase in customer satisfaction and customer loyalty. Blue Sky Value.[/QUOTE]

I got the very same impression, and couldn't agree more as to their approach. Jason is a great guy (not as familiar w/Brandon) and seems pretty knowledgeable. But I do see almost a "hurry up and get it out" approach to the business. Attention to detail and a little more process tuning would do wonders for them - I believe.

By the way, the two issues that I had were not related. One (trigger and trigger bar) was fixed and shortly after I had a broken ejector that needed repair. Both turned extremely fast and with no expense whatsoever to me, but I really couldn't get comfortable with the gun as my EDC.

I may still go back, though, at some time in the future because they do make an interesting and fun handgun.

Let us know how that barrel thing works out - I can't remember mine so wouldn't be able to say if there was or wasn't a second step there.

Good luck!

[pbagley]

For your entertainment, and to satisfy my curiosity, I photographed the chamber and start of rifling in my Kahr and Taurus barrels. Submitted for your review and comparison to the SCCY barrel above are these images. All were taken using the same lighting, camera, lens, and exposure as the image of the SCCY barrel.

Starting with the Kahr CM9 @ 885 rounds fired:
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/kahr_c10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=639&u=13629574)

Next, the Kahr CW45 @236 rounds (slightly dirty):
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/kahr_c11.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=640&u=13629574)

And just for fun here is a Taurus 738TCP @ 511 rounds:
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/taurus10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=641&u=13629574)

None of these have a post chamber step in the forcing cone.

I'll post a photo of the replacement SCCY barrel when it arrives.

[pbagley]

Update: I checked the UPS tracking number at lunch time today to find out that the barrel had been delivered to SCCY. Less than an hour later Danice called to let me know that it had arrived and that she would be sending the replacement this afternoon.

That is excellent customer service. :amflag:

I am hoping to get to the range early next week to give it a try.

[pbagley]

Update... The replacement barrel had not arrived yet, so I e-mailed Service @ SCCY . com Monday. No reply to e-mail, so I called SCCY today. The barrel was sent via standard mail with no tracking. Danice confirmed the mailing address and we found two numbers transposed in the zip code. She is sending another today, this time with tracking.

Despite no reply from the generic Service e-mail, I am still rather impressed by SCCY customer service. The people I've talked to have been good company representatives and have done a very good job in their customer facing role.

Pictures when the new barrel gets here... plus a few days. Tune in again on March 17 for the next installment of "As The SCCY Turns". :rolleyes:

[89grand]

When I first bought mine I had a bum mag out of the two the gun came with. I called them and had a new one in about 4-5 days

[pbagley]

The SCCY replacement barrel arrived while I was out of town for work. Here is a look at the bore:
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/sccy_r10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=643&u=13629574)

Pretty rough for a hand picked replacement.

Then a second replacement barrel arrived. Had to look this one over to see which was better.
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/sccy_r11.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=644&u=13629574)

This one looks a lot like the one that put bullets through the paper sideways.

Range trip soon, I'll report the accuracy results.

[Longitude Zero]

That looks like piss poor manufacturing.

[wyntrout]

Wow! What a difference in rifling. Those two replacement barrels are totally different.

For the Kahrs, I would expect the 9mm to have less turns per foot(1:10), but it seems to have a faster rate of turn than the .45(1:16+)... a slower bullet... usually. The pictures seem otherwise, though.

Wynn:)

[pbagley]

That looks like piss poor manufacturing.

I'd call it manufactured to a price point. A low price point. I'd prefer that the transition into rifling be smoother. I will tell SCCY that they sent me two and see if they want one back. I think I may do a little polishing on the one I keep - maybe 800 grit, 1000 grit, etc. Unless I get to keep both, then I polish both until I get good accuracy.

[pbagley]

Range trip earlier today. Once again I used a larger piece of paper with a 25 yard center for an aiming point. I shot 50 rounds of Federal Champion 115gr RN through each barrel to see how they compared.

Barrel #1:
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/20140310.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=645&u=13629574)

Compare to barrel #2:
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/20140311.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=646&u=13629574)

The circled hole looks like it may be a bit of a key hole.

Not the best accuracy from the replacement barrels. The more rounds shot the better the accuracy became with both barrels.

[pbagley]

After all this I like the little SCCY. It is easier to work than the Kahr CM9, the brass is easier to find - stays close by, and it seems pretty reliable. Today I had some FTE's with barrel #2. The brass was lodged on top of the magazine. I could lock the slide back, drop the magazine, then just shake the brass out. A drop of oil on the top round cleared what ever was in the chamber.

After the 100 Federal's I shot 40 Mag-Tech 115gr RN's, then 10 reloads. All fired fine, but the accuracy was sub-par compared to the Kahr CM9.

Some of you may question whether I can shoot a sub-compact well. The guys at SCCY thought no one could shoot a subcompact well enough to keep 10 for 10 on a NRA 25 yard repair center at 25 yards. Here is a target shot with the CM9 using a light but accurate reload:
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/20140312.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=647&u=13629574)

And one from the CW45 using a medium power reload:
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/20140313.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=648&u=13629574)

It isn't bragging if you can do it. That, and I have to quit throwing 7's. Embarrassing.

[HAP1978]

Nice groups!

I was thinking to sell my CW .45 so I could buy a CW .380 but it shoots so well and I like it too much so I couldn't bring myself to sell it.

Kahr's are straight shooters for sure.

[Longitude Zero]

Kahr's are straight shooters for sure.



Agreed.

[pbagley]

Kahr's are straight shooters for sure.

I cannot disagree.

[muggsy]

"Best of all, every SCCY is backed with a No-Questions-Asked Lifetime Warranty that stays with the gun."

Whose lifetime, your or the Gun Companies? I'm not impressed with life time warranties. At 67 a life time ain't all that long.

[berettabone]

You need a lifetime, to try and shoot the thing accurately. Makes me nervous when things have a lifetime warranty..................tells me that it doesn't cost them diddly to replace.

[pbagley]

Comments in two parts:

You need a lifetime, to try and shoot the thing accurately.

You'll never get a 9mm to shoot as accurately as a tuned 1911 in .45ACP. A lot of people have tried, it is not as accurate a cartridge. That said, you should be able to get everything into 3-4" at 50 yards from a Ransom rest using a decent tunable platform. For a SCCY, I'd be happy with 3-4" from a rest at 25 yards. I can shoot reasonably accurately... not great, long way to go to be a Master. But I should be able to hold the 8 ring with most things as long as the sights are on. I'll be polishing the bore a little to see if I can get the rough spots out, and we'll see if that helps.



Makes me nervous when things have a lifetime warranty..................tells me that it doesn't cost them diddly to replace.

That, or they do a good job from the start so they do not need to spend money on repairs. Parts cost is far less than labor. I have not needed any warranty service on the Kahrs or the Taurus, so they are doing it right. SCCY may be suffering from their success - ramping up manufacturing and not spending time in inspection during final assembly. Higher support costs will be one way that the executive side can measure the product quality and customer satisfaction. Let's hope they make the right changes.

[mr surveyor]

high point has a lifetime warranty also ;)

[89grand]

I'd rather buy a cheap gun with a "life time" warranty than one without. For the record, I own a Sccy CPX-2, but I've only had it out once, where it performed 100%. I don't really need the gun, have plenty of others, and don't plan on it being a range gun so as long as it shoots when I pull the trigger, I'll keep carrying it. It's the lightest 10+1 9mm I have, and the cheapest and so far it's reliable.

[berettabone]

I'd rather buy a cheap gun with a "life time" warranty than one without. For the record, I own a Sccy CPX-2, but I've only had it out once, where it performed 100%. I don't really need the gun, have plenty of others, and don't plan on it being a range gun so as long as it shoots when I pull the trigger, I'll keep carrying it. It's the lightest 10+1 9mm I have, and the cheapest and so far it's reliable.
Glad you think it's reliable, only having it out oncehttp://kahrtalk.com/images/icons/icon11.gif

[89grand]

Glad you think it's reliable, only having it out oncehttp://kahrtalk.com/images/icons/icon11.gif

So saying "...so far..." is saying It's 100% and no further testing required? I'll say it again, so far, it is reliable. I certainly can't say a gun that is, no matter the round count, isn't.

I also have a decent amount of guns to choose from, so at this point, no the Sccy would not be my first choice if my life depended on it, and had a choice of firearm, but I wouldn't be afraid to pull it if I felt I needed to either.

Does this make any sense now? It should.:o

I'd trust a gun that ran 100% right out of the gate more than I'd trust one that malf'ed non-stop because I hadn't hit the magic number of rounds yet.

[Acasper708]

I just watched a Hickok45 YouTube vid of him doin a review of a CPX2.
He said they are picky with certain ammo but pretty reliable once stuff that it likes.

[Acasper708]

http://youtu.be/vTgFs-m59RY

[pbagley]

The bore has been polished, lightly, and I've been to the range again.

Bore polishing of barrel #1 was done using 1000 grit wet-dry with oil. A few dozen passes right ahead of the chamber, then a few dozen more full length of the rifling. I followed this with Flitz. Patches slide down the bore easily now, far less roughness.
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/dsc01010.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=649&u=13629574)

Still not smooth enough, but better than before.

First five were reloads using bullets I found on the range. Pre-fired, tumbled to add some grit that will help continue the polish operation on the barrel. All targets shot at 25 yards.
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/20140318.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=654&u=13629574)

Better. Especially considering the bullets were pre-rifled.

Next I ran 10 Berry's 115gr. RN reloads. Accuracy was not great, but these reloads have not been that good in the Kahr either.

I thought the reload that works best in the Kahr may be good in the SCCY as well. Turns out that the polished barrel likes this load. This was rounds 26-35 after polishing. The prior 10 were nearly as good, the next 10 the same.
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/20140319.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=655&u=13629574)

And here's how it scores using the Kahr:
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/20140316.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=652&u=13629574)

The rest of the session was good. Between round 66 and 75 I had a FTE - case stuck about half way out of the chamber. I locked the slide back, removing the magazine, and shook the offending case out of the chamber. A drop of oil on the top round of the next magazine and no more issues for the day. My guess is that the chamber may be a little rough, and a little blow-by causes a case to stick a little.

With the improved accuracy and nearly 100% functioning this SCCY is growing on me. One more range session with some defensive ammo and I'll call it good enough to carry.

[Marine One]

I've had a Kahr CW-380 for about 4 months now and absolutely love it, so much so that I was thinking about adding a CM9 to my concealed carry collection. I was surfing the web last night and saw that a couple of my local gun stores were selling the SCCY CPX-2 TT for what amounted to an out the door price of about $100 less than the best deal I could find on the CM9. I liked the idea of the extended magazine capacity of the CPX-2, and the lower price. But I must say that after reading all 7 pages here, and looking at the target photos I think that I'm seriously thinking to spend the extra $100 and go back to Kahr. The extra rounds in the mag don't mean a thing if they aren't going to hit the target. Even worse, if placed in a must shoot situation, I'd be afraid of hitting something that I didn't want to hit based on the hit patterns of the CPX-2. What impressed me from the beginning with the CW-380 was that the rounds went exactly where the weapon was pointed. From the above photos it seems the same is the case for the CM-9. This appears like a classic example of getting what one pays for.

[pbagley]

I've had a Kahr CW-380 for about 4 months now and absolutely love it,
<snip>
This appears like a classic example of getting what one pays for.

Absolutely. SCCY has done a great job of customer support to address my problem, but I have not had to call Kahr's customer support. Consider that ammunition is a critical factor in good accuracy from these small 9mm's (in my limited experience).

Having both a CM9 and a SCCY CPX-2 I can compare and contrast.
- The CM9 does what it does as well as any sub-compact 9mm I've tried. 25 yard accuracy is best with Critical Defense 115 gr, but my handload does pretty well too.
- The SCCY does best with Critical Defense as well, and with the replacement barrel shoots nearly as accurately as the CM9.
For the intended use both shoot very well.

I've tried a KelTech PF9 and found it less accurate at 25 yards.
I've also tried a Kahr PM9 and found it's accuracy to be near the equal of the CM9. I don't think the match barrel makes a lot of difference in this small a package.

If you are concerned about accuracy I suggest looking at the Kahr CM40 - it is very near the same size and weight of the CM9 and fits into the same kydex holsters. I find that it is more accurate than the CM9 at 25 yards, holds one fewer cartridge in the magazine, and kicks a little more.

I bought a CW-380 in July. I love it, but accuracy is elusive. Once again, my best groups are with Critical Defense, and Hydra-shocks are very good too. Practice ammo has a spread a few scoring rings larger.

Good luck!

[yqtszhj]

Bore polishing of barrel #1 was done using 1000 grit wet-dry with oil.
.

Ive done that very thing to the chamber of probably every gun i own particularly if i ever had ftf or fte issues. The ones i did it to i started with 1000 grit, then 1500 or 2000 grit. Its a mirror finish inside. Makes it real easy to clean too.

[smokersteve]

My SCCY cpx2 has been a great gun so far. Seems to be built solid and its a lot of gun for $250. I've only shot slightly over 300 rounds and it has been without flaw. I've used wwb, federal, tula steel and federal jhp. This Wednesday I'll be heading to the range again with it.
My only complaint is the long trigger reset(just like a Kahr - the whole way out)
I would recommend it