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garyb
02-19-2014, 10:12 AM
William J. Bennett, in a lecture to the United States Naval Academy on November 24, 1997 said, "Most of the people in our society are sheep.

They are kind, gentle, productive creatures that can only hurt one another by accident. We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people, not capable of hurting each other except by accident or under extreme provocation.

They are sheep.

Then there are the wolves that feed on the sheep without mercy. Do you believe there are wolves out there that will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

Then there are sheepdogs and I'm a sheepdog.

I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive psychopath, a wolf.

But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the uncharted path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed.

We know that the sheep live in denial, which is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kid's schools. But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid's school. Our children are thousands of times more likely to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the sheep's only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard. So they choose the path of denial.

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep.

Any sheepdog that intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed.
The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.
Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land.

They would prefer that he didn't tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand ready in our airports, in camouflage fatigues, holding an M-16.

The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go baa until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.

The students, the victims, at Columbine High School were big, tough high school students, and under ordinary circumstances would not have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had nothing to say to a cop.

When the school was under attack, however, and SWAT teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel those clinging, sobbing kids off of them.
This is how the little lambs feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door. Look at what happened after September 11, 2001 when the wolf pounded hard on the door.

Remember how America, more than ever before, felt differently about their law enforcement officers and military personnel?

Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be.

Also understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter. He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle.

The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed, right along with the young ones.

Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently.

The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day.

After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America said "Thank God I wasn't on one of those planes."
The sheepdogs, the warriors, said "Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference."
You want to be able to make a difference. There is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, but he does have one real advantage. Only one - and that is that he is able to survive and thrive in an environment that would destroy 98 percent of the population.

Research was conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers.

The vast majority said they specifically targeted victims by body language: Slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself.

Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs.

But I believe that most people can choose which one they want to be, and I'm proud to say that more and more Americans are choosing to become sheepdogs.
Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking.

When they learned of the other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd and the other passengers confronted the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers - athletes, business people and parents - from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves, ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.

Edmund Burke said "There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men."

Here is the point I want to emphasize; especially to the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year.

In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep.

Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves. They don't have a choice.

But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.

If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you.
If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love.
But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.
This business of being a sheep or a sheepdog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior.

Few people exist completely on one end or the other. Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started taking their job more seriously.

Its OK to be a sheep, but do not kick the sheepdog. Indeed, the sheepdog may just run a little harder, strive to protect a little better and be fully prepared to pay an ultimate price in battle and spirit with the sheep moving from "baa" to "thanks".

We do not call for gifts or freedoms beyond our lot. We just need a small pat on the head, a smile and a thank you to fill the emotional tank that is drained protecting the sheep.

And, when our number is called by The Almighty and day retreats into night, a small prayer before the heavens just may be in order to say thanks for letting you continue to be a sheep.
Be grateful for the millions of American sheepdogs who permit you the freedom to express even bad ideas.

itsthelaw
02-19-2014, 10:52 AM
I really don't like to read much, but this really put it into perspective for me. A simple guys needs a simple story/analogy/allegory to see things. Thank you for posting it!

My favorite 6 words are "There is no safety in denial."

johnh
02-19-2014, 11:50 AM
I am not comfortable with the "sheepdog" label. I have seen many discussions of this rationale. I appreciate the concept, but I do not feel responsible to ward over individuals who opt to be sheep. To me part of that is deciding not to be responsible for oneself, rather to expect someone else to put their safety on the line to protect them. It is a form of naivete at best, cowardice at worst. Be clear that I am not talking about children, the elderly, and others who cannot protect themselves. I will walk into the fire for those individuals any time.

So perhaps I am a benign wolf. I guard my pack, and those of my brother/sister like minded wolves. I will choose when to act and who to act for. Don't expect me to guard the flock in general. The flock needs to step up.

Bawanna
02-19-2014, 12:15 PM
Excellent thinking boss. I'm certain that there are varying degrees of sheep dogs. But they all have the choice of who they will defend and to what extent.
Many sheep are neutered by lawyers and fear of the screwed up legal system, caused by those same lawyers.

Makes it a harder and harder to be a sheep dog anymore.

Those that choose to be sheep and "expect" the sheepdogs to protect them likely deserve that protection the very least.

Probably the same 47% collecting welfare, government assistance and housing 95% of the wolves in the first place.

JohnR
02-19-2014, 12:27 PM
I am not comfortable with the "sheepdog" label. I have seen many discussions of this rationale. I appreciate the concept, but I do not feel responsible to ward over individuals who opt to be sheep. To me part of that is deciding not to be responsible for oneself, rather to expect someone else to put their safety on the line to protect them. It is a form of naivete at best, cowardice at worst. Be clear that I am not talking about children, the elderly, and others who cannot protect themselves. I will walk into the fire for those individuals any time.

So perhaps I am a benign wolf. I guard my pack, and those of my brother/sister like minded wolves. I will choose when to act and who to act for. Don't expect me to guard the flock in general. The flock needs to step up.

Exactly my sentiment. No one's paying me to watch over strangers who won't watch over themselves. I have a pack to watch over, and no duty beyond them. Guard dog, not sheep dog.

wyntrout
02-19-2014, 12:53 PM
Thanks for the post. I think I saw that once upon a time... and I agree with Johnh, Bawanna, and JohnR. I'm not a sheepdog or a "warrior", but I believe that I have good situational awareness and I try to stay away from danger, but I'm also ready to defend myself, my loved ones, and those unable to help themselves... as the children and elderly... but, heck, I'm considered elderly now!:rolleyes:

Wynn:)

Bawanna
02-19-2014, 12:58 PM
Heck I'm elderly, a derelict, and not normal but I'm still proud to be a sheep dog and a warrior.

If someone hadn't spit on superman's cape, I'd be wearing it today. I don't say this to brag or toot my horn or nothing like that, it's just the way it should be especially if you were born a 100 years too late like I was.

Actually momma says I weren't born, she found me under a rock but I try to live with it ya know?

AIRret
02-19-2014, 04:54 PM
I think that those who carry are sheep-dogs to one extent or another.
We certainly don't have our heads in the sand.
But whom we choose to defend is a personal choice.

When I was in the AF, the government made the choice as far as who was to be defended.

If someone attacks our homeland, like 9/11, it's an obvious choice for the government. But when it's a battle on foreign land it's a political decision, right or wrong.

Things get complicated real fast.

b4uqzme
02-19-2014, 05:50 PM
This business of being a sheep or a sheepdog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior.

[SIZE=3]Few people exist completely on one end or the other. Most of us live somewhere in between. ]

Yes we do. Good post.

RevRay
02-19-2014, 06:10 PM
You guys who say you'll only defend those you love and not the average Jolene are just kidding yourselves. Imagine this scenario ...

You're in a mall with your family and you hear sounds of gunfire down at the other end of the mall. In a matter of moments screaming people are running in your direction away from the shooter. What would you do? Obviously, you would first herd your family out in a safe direction and make sure they're safe ... but then what? My bet would be you would go back in and see if there was anything you could do to neutralize the shooter. Being a defender of what is right and good and noble is not something you can turn on and off and on and off like an app on your phone. You are either a defender or you are not.

Bawanna
02-19-2014, 06:26 PM
You guys who say you'll only defend those you love and not the average Jolene are just kidding yourselves. Imagine this scenario ...

You're in a mall with your family and you hear sounds of gunfire down at the other end of the mall. In a matter of moments screaming people are running in your direction away from the shooter. What would you do? Obviously, you would first herd your family out in a safe direction and make sure they're safe ... but then what? My bet would be you would go back in and see if there was anything you could do to neutralize the shooter. Being a defender of what is right and good and noble is not something you can turn on and off and on and off like an app on your phone. You are either a defender or you are not.

I agree 100% and would classify myself as the ultimate warrior BUT as I mentioned before the lawyer business has really made it tough on warriors. Many sheepdogs are more worried about lawyers and the aftermath than they are the dirtbag with the weapon hurting people. Many many police officers are dead today because they were more concerned with the aftermath, the PC interpretation or being labeled a racist and rightfully so. The lawyers and PC experts can paint you any way they want you to look and unless you got more money that Davy Crockett you'll not fare well.
We should actually add snakes to the list of breeds. Sheep, sheep dogs, wolves, and lawyers.


Some as also mentioned only do due diligence to themselves and their own. I find I can't do that for the most part.

This has it's price and extreme risk. The responding police don't always know your a sheepdog and may mistake you for the wolf. Other sheepdogs may also misread you as the wolf. It's a tangle mess that only being there and making a call can give an answer to.

jocko
02-19-2014, 06:30 PM
I say this, as we sit here reading ol jocko's dribble and the dribble of utters. WE REALLY DON['T KNOW WHAT WE WILL DO IN CERTAIN SCENARIO'S. Until it happens, u don';t even know. I won't agree or disagree with what u said Rev, U do make a point. I think I am a macho person and would do the right thing but until it happens I am just conjecturing to Just my 21 cents on this YMMV

Bawanna
02-19-2014, 06:33 PM
Would you put your life on the line for this? Pretty cute.

downtownv
02-19-2014, 06:34 PM
Great post as it had a lot of interesting reaction.
I get the concept, however.

jocko
02-19-2014, 06:36 PM
Would you put your life on the line for this? Pretty cute.

I see a weakening in the colonel. U want one don't u??????:israel:

Barth
02-19-2014, 06:37 PM
http://www.vh1.com/celebrity/bwe/images/2012/01/PINK-SHEEP-004-1327679266.jpg

Bawanna
02-19-2014, 06:40 PM
Oh sure, bring on the child porn. Come on people. A little civility here. Chester the Molester.

AIRret
02-19-2014, 06:57 PM
When I said.. whom we decide to protect is a personal choice I was trying to do two things;
one contrast that with a military member whom doesn't always have a choice, and a CCW
citizen making a personal choice.
I've said this before, you have to decide what you can live with. It would be a rare person who believes in self defense strongly enough to get a permit and then would walk away from trouble when it comes to a loved one.
However, personally, I know I couldn't walk away from a rape scene, or a kidnapping, or
a shoot out in a store.
If I took that shot, life as I know it would definitely change, but I couldn't be happy/content with myself if I walked away from a victim that I knew I could help.
That's not to say I would take a shoot from a great distance with lots of innocent by-standers, it's not going to help if you do something stupid!

RevRay
02-19-2014, 07:11 PM
This (going back in) has it's price and extreme risk. The responding police don't always know your a sheepdog and may mistake you for the wolf. Other sheepdogs may also misread you as the wolf. It's a tangle mess that only being there and making a call can give an answer to.

Those are legitimate points, but hopefully cool heads would prevail. From what we know of these kinds of situations, they rarely involve a shooter who is crouching down hiding behind cover. Typically, the shooter thinks he owns the terrain, and he is walking up and down out in the clear because he thinks he totally holds the upper hand.

smo79
02-19-2014, 07:47 PM
You guys who say you'll only defend those you love and not the average Jolene are just kidding yourselves. Imagine this scenario ...

You're in a mall with your family and you hear sounds of gunfire down at the other end of the mall. In a matter of moments screaming people are running in your direction away from the shooter. What would you do? Obviously, you would first herd your family out in a safe direction and make sure they're safe ... but then what? My bet would be you would go back in and see if there was anything you could do to neutralize the shooter. Being a defender of what is right and good and noble is not something you can turn on and off and on and off like an app on your phone. You are either a defender or you are not.
Rev good point but there is something else to also consider. If you wipe out your piece what are the chances that the police identify you as the active shooter and take you out. Unfortunately good guys don't wear white hats and bad guys wear black hats.

RevRay
02-19-2014, 07:56 PM
Rev good point but there is something else to also consider. If you wipe out your piece what are the chances that the police identify you as the active shooter and take you out. Unfortunately good guys don't wear white hats and bad guys wear black hats.

Two things ... one, if I go right back in I'm likely to get there before the police, so I would have either taken out the shooter or be dead myself. Two, if either the shooter or the police take me out I go to heaven a little early.

But like jocko said, we don't really know what we would do 'til it happens I guess.

itsthelaw
02-19-2014, 08:17 PM
Just like the sheep has a greater appreciation for the sheep dog in a time of trouble, we all get more brazen when there is a heightened perception of threat. I think THAT is key. If we are all sheep dogs of some level, we all need to live by "there is so safety in denial." The more we value all human life and don't let our morals slide, the sharper out teeth. That sounds nice, but there are a lot of great people left in this country, and we need to focus on that EVERY day. Otherwise, our country is dead.

muggsy
02-19-2014, 08:19 PM
I hate to say this, but Jocko was right on the money in this regard. No one knows for sure just what they will do until the SHTF. The three F's apply. Fight, freeze or flight. Those are the only options. I can't run and I not going to just stand there, so I might as well get involved. Everyone of us is going to die one day. Today is as good a day as any other. I'm no hero, but I think that I'd have a hard time living with myself if I ran or did nothing.

itsthelaw
02-19-2014, 08:19 PM
...unless the Liberals all have signs on their chests that say "Liberal".

wyntrout
02-19-2014, 08:44 PM
Hopefully you won't do that with a gun in your hand and risk "friendly fire" as part of the problem.

I WOULD make sure that my family was out of harm's way. I AM more armed than any Mall Cops I've ever seen... usually radio and pepper spray, if that much, but I'm not a "free lance cop"... as cautioned by the issuer of my CC permit in the pamphlet that came with my CCW renewal.

I HAVE come to the aid of my police neighbor... with gun in hand and tactical light, but stayed out of sight unless needed. The cop had responded to screams for help in his t-shirt and boxers... unarmed!

I would not hesitate to assist an LEO, but I want to be smart about that. A random guy with a gun... CC permit or not... is another possible "friendly-fire" victim!

My actions will depend on the situation, but I would definitely try to assist anyone being assaulted.

Wynn:)

b4uqzme
02-19-2014, 09:16 PM
I spend a lot of time mentally preparing to act. All of my practice and proficiency fly out the window if I "freeze or flee". I don't want fear of the legal issues getting in the way either. Make no mistake: I'm no hero, macho man, or wanna-be LEO. I just want my head clear of all the noise so I can focus on the situation developing...and let my instincts make good choices. But to Jocko's point: you never know until you are there.

Bawanna
02-19-2014, 09:16 PM
I hate to say this, but Jocko was right on the money in this regard. No one knows for sure just what they will do until the SHTF. The three F's apply. Fight, freeze or flight. Those are the only options. I can't run and I not going to just stand there, so I might as well get involved. Everyone of us is going to die one day. Today is as good a day as any other. I'm no hero, but I think that I'd have a hard time living with myself if I ran or did nothing.

Three F's? You got it all wrong there buddy.

It's Face, Forehead, or Front Teeth. Glad I was here to help you out in time,you might have done some of that stupid center mass crap and got yourself hurt.

muggsy
02-20-2014, 06:20 AM
Three F's? You got it all wrong there buddy.

It's Face, Forehead, or Front Teeth. Glad I was here to help you out in time,you might have done some of that stupid center mass crap and got yourself hurt.

It's good to know that someone always has my back. I stand corrected, Bawanna.

johnh
02-20-2014, 08:53 AM
On Rev's point, I think that kind of scenario is so extreme it would be a judgement call on the fly. A group of unarmed folks being attacked by an active shooter kind of fits my "help those who cannot help themselves" criteria though. Still, were more people to learn to shoot, get their CCWs, and carry, it would make such events have different outcomes. That is my point about the "sheep" needing to step up. Of course I realize that is not an option everywhere.

RevRay
02-20-2014, 03:17 PM
John, glad to see you're back to Bogie.

Bill K
02-20-2014, 05:53 PM
Cornered or trapped I suspect most who have chosen to carry would rise to a dire situation and use, if need be, deadly force to defend themselves and their loved ones. Going into harms way when you're under no obligation or duty to do so is another question. I agree with jocko... you just don't know. However, not knowing should not be an excuse for at least some preparedness.

garyb
02-20-2014, 06:10 PM
Yes we do. Good post.
This business of being a sheep or a sheepdog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior.

You get the point b4uqzme. There are varying degrees of sheep and sheep dogs. There are sheep that will get protected by some sheep dogs, but other sheep that may not get protected by other sheep dogs. There is no all or nothing. This sheep and sheep dog concept, is an interesting thought to ponder.

DanTana
02-20-2014, 07:03 PM
I've heard about the sheep, sheep dog, and wolves, what about the sheep herder?

Bawanna
02-20-2014, 07:41 PM
That would be Jocko. All the more reason I want to be a sheep dog and not a sheep. I mean I like the guy and all kind a sorta but it ain't love ya know?

knkali
02-21-2014, 10:21 AM
nice to see guys sorting out where they are before any need.


For me it is a general sense of where you stand. RevRay said it all with the mall scenario. Once you get to the shooter(or source of the chaos) decision making takes over but the your personality took over to get you there.

alan1028
02-25-2014, 03:20 PM
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