Future gun economics in Calif

[knkali]

As many Calif residents know, gun manufacturers are not paying the DOJ to have their guns "renewed" so they can be on the approved list for sale in kalifornia due to the recent constraints that need to be made to their gun designs so they are even eligible for sale in this state. Because of this, many guns will be falling off the DOJ list within months. The only way to get a gun will be to buy a used one already sold IN kalifornia.


Therefore, the supply and demand for NEW guns could make the ability to secure a NIB gun a premium purchase.


A group of us are thinking of pooling our resources financially as well as pooling our ability to purchase more guns since only one handgun can be purchased per individual every 30 days in kalifornia. We would then zip tie the case shut, never to fire the weapon and seek a premium price for new handguns for sale in the state. Targeting the smaller less expensive compact/mouse guns like the Ruger LC9 ect.


Other than it seems cutthroat, what do other minds on this forum think of this endeavor? Is there a work around in the gun community that I(we) have no clue about which would end up leaving us with a bunch of small guns that we would have to unload at or below the $ we paid for them?


Yes gun control is alive and well in kalifornia. I want good people to be armed. If I make a little in the process that doesn't hurt my feeling either. Too bad it has come to this in kalifornia. The state circumvented the 2A, mag caps, and all the other sticky positions and just made the manufacturers as the "bad guys". Brilliant, because manufacturers are not going to tool up just to meet kalifornia's requirements. Too much $$. Watch out, other states could do this too. If they do, I could see the manufacturers changing their designs and our business model fall apart, but not anytime soon.

[JohnR]

You'd have to be an FFL.

[knkali]

You'd have to be an FFL.

Why do you say that? These guns would be all owned individually and legally in this state.

[Bawanna]

That's true, legally individually purchased private ownership.

The part that trips me is selling them to people in California. I don't think it's legal to sell out of state even to an individual, but maybe so.

Also your talking about buying guns that are on the list now so they would essentially be grandfathered until of course the powers that be somehow undo that part too.

I saw a deal yesterday where they are talking about breaking CA up into 6 individual states. Too big to manage as one. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Truth be told I don't really give a damn.

[knkali]

That's true, legally individually purchased private ownership.

The part that trips me is selling them to people in California. I don't think it's legal to sell out of state even to an individual, but maybe so.

Also your talking about buying guns that are on the list now so they would essentially be grandfathered until of course the powers that be somehow undo that part too.

I saw a deal yesterday where they are talking about breaking CA up into 6 individual states. Too big to manage as one. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Truth be told I don't really give a damn.



Cannot sell a gun not on the DOJ approved list from out of state into kalifornia.


Yes anything can be "undone" in the future.


Who knows, some manufacturer might sell a "kalifornia" compliant model and $XYZZ and demonstrate a profit that could cause other manufacturers to join in too. I doubt this but who knows? kalifornia is a big state. Or there might be enough guns unavailable to make a case in front of the AG that this is an infringement of interstate commerce as well as a 2A infringement and the whole thing implodes on its own weight--doubt it oo but who knows.

[b4uqzme]

[QUOTE=knkali;289639]


A group of us are thinking of pooling our resources financially as well as pooling our ability to purchase more guns since only one handgun can be purchased per individual every 30 days in kalifornia. QUOTE]


^^^^ I think this is why JohnR is recommending that you become an FFL. So you can buy enough volume to make it work.

I foresee a black market....or an expansion of the one currently in existence.

I don't see anything wrong with your plan but who knows what the authorities will do to counter it (?).

It's garbage like this that has me motivated to make sure I acquire the firearms I feel I "need" now.

I'm not recommending stockpiling but having plenty of ammo and reloading supplies is smart too. The market is not that messed up yet and you can find what you need at reasonable prices if you are savvy. No need to wait until we have another crisis. I'll be prepared next time.

[muggsy]

Guns move in and out of California on the black market every day. Do you really think that you are going to corner the market? Get serious. You're playing with a potential federal offense.

[bob98366]

Not an exact analogy, but close in the big picture:

Coors beer used to be sold only in certain states due to "needing refrigerated transportation". Growing up in Iowa (non-Coors state then) a neighbor bought a large box truck, drove to Colorado, bought enough cased beer to fill the truck, drove back to Iowa and stored the beer in his home's basement while selling it for cash to thirsty Iowans.

The Coors distributor turned him into the Feds for making a suspiciously large purchase (after making the sale, of course). The Feds took his truck, his house and the remaining beer. He went to jail. Not sure what the unpaid income tax, monetary fines or legal expenses were.

If someone wants some extra cash, I'd suggest getting a part time job.

[Longitude Zero]

When everything and everybody west of the San Andreas fault drowns in the ocean maybe CA might have a chance at normality. Until then it and all its citizens are living in a cesspool.

[ltxi]

I really think you ought to go for it, knkali. It appears legal long as it fits within state private sale definition. No shame in making money off your fellow California sheep. Keep an attorney on retainer.

[Longitude Zero]

If I am not in CA I can sell anything I want to a CA resident. It is their problem when they take it back home. I am free and clear and have zero liability even if I know they are from CA and might take it back there. At least that is what an attorney here tells me.

[knkali]

If I am not in CA I can sell anything I want to a CA resident. It is their problem when they take it back home. I am free and clear and have zero liability even if I know they are from CA and might take it back there. At least that is what an attorney here tells me.
I believe that is correct. You can sell it but they cannot go to kalifornia with it.

[knkali]

I really think you ought to go for it, knkali. It appears legal long as it fits within state private sale definition. No shame in making money off your fellow California sheep. Keep an attorney on retainer.


Thanks. I think it is legal but the attorney on retainer is probably a good idea too

[knkali]

That's true, legally individually purchased private ownership.

The part that trips me is selling them to people in California. I don't think it's legal to sell out of state even to an individual, but maybe so.

Also your talking about buying guns that are on the list now so they would essentially be grandfathered until of course the powers that be somehow undo that part too.

I saw a deal yesterday where they are talking about breaking CA up into 6 individual states. Too big to manage as one. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Truth be told I don't really give a damn.


where's the love?

[knkali]

where are the attorneys arguing Article 1 sec 8 clause 3? "The Commerce Clause"


I feel better, went to Nevada today and bought 3K rnds of ammo.

[TheTman]

You can always go through the Sons of Anarchy, they sell quite a few weapons. :D

[muggsy]

Don't quote me on this, but in order to sell to someone in another state the transaction must go through an FFL. You can only sell directly to someone who resides within the same state which you reside. Of course there is little to be concerned about if you look good in stripes. :)

[b4uqzme]

Don't quote me on this, but in order to sell to someone in another state the transaction must go through an FFL. You can only sell directly to someone who resides within the same state which you reside. Of course there is little to be concerned about if you look good in stripes. :)

Vertical or horizontal? Could make a difference to me :rolleyes:

[knkali]

Don't quote me on this, but in order to sell to someone in another state the transaction must go through an FFL. You can only sell directly to someone who resides within the same state which you reside. Of course there is little to be concerned about if you look good in stripes. :)

Muggs:
I thought in some states, an FFL is not needed at all for any sale of a used gun. Therefore, I thought LZ was correct when he said he could sell to a kalifornia res and the burden was on the buyer if they took the gun back to kalifornia. LZ is from the "Sooner" state. Is OK one of those states? LZ is it? I know in kalifornia everything goes through an FFL. Even if you think about a gun here you must take a "test" and get a DROS form for the possibility of that thought. Then you must wait 10 days to have that thought. Then take a gun safety class to complete the thought. Also, the thought cannot have more than 10 bullets in the mag. Full auto thoughts are prohibited.

[Longitude Zero]

Here in the Sooner Nation I as a private individual have ZERO responsibility to determine the purchasers state of residence. Likewise I am not required to run any background check either. I can sell it with ZERO liability. Now an FFL operates under vastly different rules.

[b4uqzme]

Here in the Sooner Nation I as a private individual have ZERO responsibility to determine the purchasers state of residence. Likewise I am not required to run any background check either. I can sell it with ZERO liability. Now an FFL operates under vastly different rules.

And SHIPPING firearms between states has rules too.

[Longitude Zero]

And SHIPPING firearms between states has rules too.


True enough. As long as it a face to face sale no issues here in a free state.

[kahrseye]

Each state has different laws where handguns are concerned. In PA I have to go through an FFL whether in state or out of state for a handgun sale. According to my friend, who used to be an FFL, any out of state handgun transfer, by federal law, has to go through an FFL.

In the case of an individual in Californication, if he buys a gun legally and then resells it later on at a profit, I don't see where he has any problem, as long as he follows his state's transfer laws.

[ltxi]

Each state has different laws where handguns are concerned. In PA I have to go through an FFL whether in state or out of state for a handgun sale. According to my friend, who used to be an FFL, any out of state handgun transfer, by federal law, has to go through an FFL.

In the case of an individual in Californication, if he buys a gun legally and then resells it later on at a profit, I don't see where he has any problem, as long as he follows his state's transfer laws.


Private, family trransactions are/were at least functionality exempt. Because of the way PA firearm laws are currently written I can no longer even give hand guns to my sister and/or her husband. They currently have three of four of my guns on (permanent) loan. Permitted in PA between permit holders.