CM9 Range/Customer Service Report

[Rubb]

154 rounds- flawless performance.
No noticeable additional wear to the frame.

100 Blazer Brass 124gr.
21 Gold Dot 124+p
14 Gold Dot 147gr
19 loose rounds I found in the bottom of my range bag.

Only one issue...see pic

[jocko]

i would have expected nuttin different. great gun, simply one of thebest out there IMO. Now just shoot the fokker like u stole it.

[Rubb]

i would have expected nuttin different. great gun, simply one of thebest out there IMO. Now just shoot the fokker like u stole it.

I plan on it...as soon as Kahr fixes the issue.
No big deal.. I kinda expected it :)
That's why I only used 1 mag ;)

[feedramp]

Sounds like a great range feeding to me.

What was the issue ... :001_huh:

[Rubb]

Sounds like a great range feeding to me.

What was the issue ... :001_huh:

I changed the pic above...issue is now circled..

[MBSL500]

i would have expected nuttin different. great gun, simply one of thebest out there IMO. Now just shoot the fokker like u stole it.

Which part?
The broken follower or the 154 flawless rounds?

[Rubb]

Which part?
The broken follower or the 154 flawless rounds?



Both..

[MBSL500]

Both..

It's a great shooting little gun.
It's a shame so many are having to go back to be repaired.

[Rubb]

It's a great shooting little gun.
It's a shame so many are having to go back to be repaired.



Yes it is.
Sending it back isn't a big deal to me as I've sent back a few to different manufacturers.
All of them returned to me flawless.


I've sent an email and will follow up with a phone call tomorrow.
I guess this post will become more of a customer service report ;)

[Rubb]

Got through on the phone and talked to the British fellow, he was pleasant.
I told him I've researched the issue and see that they're modifying feedramps to rectify the problem.
He stated that they're sending out replacement followers and calling them back to the factory if it happens a second time.
Seems fair to me...

[berettabone]

A slight bit of material removal on the ramp could be in order.....................

[hawk45]

You'd think for the cost of sending out all these replacement followers and shipping to/from the factory for the fixes, they could make a simple jig to measure the feed ramp length before any go out of the factory. I hear about such high tolerances they have, so I find it surprising how may you see with the issue. Best of luck brother.

[codegeek]

Got through on the phone and talked to the British fellow, he was pleasant.
I told him I've researched the issue and see that they're modifying feedramps to rectify the problem.
He stated that they're sending out replacement followers and calling them back to the factory if it happens a second time.
Seems fair to me...

That's how it went down with me. Weapon was back from the factory in 10 days.

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

[b4uqzme]

You'd think for the cost of sending out all these replacement followers and shipping to/from the factory for the fixes, they could make a simple jig to measure the feed ramp length before any go out of the factory. I hear about such high tolerances they have, so I find it surprising how may you see with the issue. Best of luck brother.

It seems Kahr is trying to maintain the tightest tolerances possible ==> a percentage that have issues and need addressed. They could make them all sloppy and never have a problem. But then they'd be Kel-tecs. Maybe they feel like this is an acceptable level of service repairs. It's a known issue and we know how to deal with it. So sorry for the inconvenience but all will work out in the end.

[Rubb]

Went to shoot the CM9 a 2nd time today.
100 more 124 gr. FMJ and 14 Gold Dot 147's.
That's 268 flawless rounds now and no broken follower this time!

I haven't received the replacement follower yet so I used a PM 6 round range mag...now the primary for my CM9 btw :)
This begs the question, Is there a follower problem??
One way to find out...I'll be using the replacement follower and the original CM9 mag as a PM9 range mag ;)
If the new follower breaks in my PM, there is definitely a follower issue.
I know I've put at least 500 rounds through the mag I used today.

All good news and this CM9 is ready for holster duty!!

[RRP]

Kahr does not distinguish between CM9 and PM9 magazines. They are the same.

This may help.
http://www.kahr.com/kahr-mag-guide.asp#9mmmag

[Rubb]

Kahr does not distinguish between CM9 and PM9 magazines. They are the same.

This may help.
http://www.kahr.com/kahr-mag-guide.asp#9mmmag



I know that. I was referring to old vs. new follower.

[muggsy]

154 rounds- flawless performance.
No noticeable additional wear to the frame.

100 Blazer Brass 124gr.
21 Gold Dot 124+p
14 Gold Dot 147gr
19 loose rounds I found in the bottom of my range bag.



Never, but never shoot loose rounds found in the bottom of your range bag. You don't know where those rounds have been, nor what they've been up to. All loose rounds should only be fired by a loose shooter. Send all loose rounds to muggsy.

[Rubb]

But, I know where my rounds have been and what they've been up to..probably because I'm not loose....what now??

[getsome]

You'd think for the cost of sending out all these replacement followers and shipping to/from the factory for the fixes, they could make a simple jig to measure the feed ramp length before any go out of the factory. I hear about such high tolerances they have, so I find it surprising how may you see with the issue. Best of luck brother.

I could be wrong but me thinks it's not a feed ramp issue or bad followers but a production lot of barrels with the slide stop hole slightly out of spec either too large or slightly out of position and it would have been too costly to scrap them all so the decision was made to go ahead and let them go to production and fix the ones that come back breaking followers.....

[Rubb]

I'm not going to worry about it unless I break another follower.
It's been flawless, busted follower or not...

[Ascham1]

I could be wrong but me thinks it's not a feed ramp issue or bad followers but a production lot of barrels with the slide stop hole slightly out of spec either too large or slightly out of position and it would have been too costly to scrap them all so the decision was made to go ahead and let them go to production and fix the ones that come back breaking followers.....

So they put the burden on the customer to bear? Not good business IMHO, I had to send a brand new gun back for poor quality/process control? I understand problems,I work for an aerospace industrial company, and if we did that planes would fall from the sky and cars would crash.

[getsome]

Sorry but Rocket Ships, Airplanes and Automobiles do crash because of bad designs, stupid short sighted management decisions and poor quality control...Agree it's not good business to put out a product that has a known defect but that's just how it is even in the automobile and aircraft business...

Morton-Thiokol engineers told NASA they couldn't guarantee their solid rocket engines O rings in temperatures under 32 degrees...NASA managers said "Hogwash" we got a budget and schedule to meet, lets get this done and launch Challenger as planned, defects be damned...The rest is history....

NASA thought they had the Shuttle tile problem under control and knew that Columbia had lost several heat shield tiles in a vulnerable spot on her left wing but allowed them to reenter anyway because there had never been an issue before and NASA had a schedule to keep in order to get parts to the International Space Station and that little bad decision left what was left of Columbia scattered from Texas to Alabama....

Boeing knew about possible defects and cracks in the aft bulkheads of early models of the 747 but didn't do anything but issue a directive to airlines to check for problems....JAL123 had a problem in 1985 and had a crash....Boeing and JAL both paid dearly for that one...

Airbus knew of icing problems with the pitot tubes that measure airspeed in the A330 and didn't fix it...Air France 447 stalled due to incorrect airspeed instrument readings and did in fact fall out of the sky killing everyone aboard because of a very preventable and known defect...

Toyota knew they had a sudden acceleration issue in some of their cars and blamed it on floor mats....Toyota just got fined 1.2 billion for not telling the truth on top of what it cost to recall thousands of cars...

GM just recalled thousands of cars because of an ongoing and very well known defect with the ignition switches on some vehicles that allowed heavy key rings to turn the cars off which took away stearing and brake performance and caused many deaths before doing a recall...This one should have been addressed years ago and it's going to cost GM a bundle to fix what should have never been an issue if they had done something before now...

Ford knew the Pinto was a death trap if hit in the rear during a crash causing the fuel tank to rupture...The fix was shorter bumper bolts that cost less than 5 bucks per car but Ford elected to pay settlements to people injured for life and the families of those who burned to death because in the long run it was cheaper for Ford to do that rather than do a recall and fix the problem correctly...

It happens everywhere and I will agree that Kahr has a problem and shouldn't have shipped guns with this known issue but they made a business decision and did it anyway thinking it would be cheaper to fix the ones customers had problems with rather than do a recall to inspect them all because Kahr Arms and their lawyers said it isn't a safety issue...

It isn't right but it isn't a perfect world and to Kahr's credit they are standing behind their product and fixing them under warranty...In time this problem will go away and hopefully Kahr learned a lesson in how important good customer service is....

[muggsy]

Nothing that Kahr builds is going to fall from 30,000 feet. I think were comparing apples to oranges here. Granted both are fruits, but I'm not about to get into any gay bashing either. I don't think that Kahr would intentionally ship a gun with out of spec parts, but a few might slip by inspection. Anyway, this is all conjecture and I've always been pro-jecture.

[Rubb]

No follower yet..
Emailed Monday, didn't get a reply..
Called yesterday and spoke to Ian, said it was in the mail 2 days ago.
He also stated reason for delay...they could have been on backorder.

[jocko]

gee getsome, u make good sense. I bet ur wife wrote that for u to. Just sayin and thenb the very next text is from Muggsy which makes zero sense. Just sayn

[getsome]

Thank you Mein Fuhrer, I just love it when you stroke my ego.....You did wash your hands first didn't you?....You know I can't go home smelling like Bah Bah or PAQU will know something's up between us...

[Ascham1]

Sorry but Rocket Ships, Airplanes and Automobiles do crash because of bad designs, stupid short sighted management decisions and poor quality control...Agree it's not good business to put out a product that has a known defect but that's just how it is even in the automobile and aircraft business...

Morton-Thiokol engineers told NASA they couldn't guarantee their solid rocket engines O rings in temperatures under 32 degrees...NASA managers said "Hogwash" we got a budget and schedule to meet, lets get this done and launch Challenger as planned, defects be damned...The rest is history....

NASA thought they had the Shuttle tile problem under control and knew that Columbia had lost several heat shield tiles in a vulnerable spot on her left wing but allowed them to reenter anyway because there had never been an issue before and NASA had a schedule to keep in order to get parts to the International Space Station and that little bad decision left what was left of Columbia scattered from Texas to Alabama....

Boeing knew about possible defects and cracks in the aft bulkheads of early models of the 747 but didn't do anything but issue a directive to airlines to check for problems....JAL123 had a problem in 1985 and had a crash....Boeing and JAL both paid dearly for that one...

Airbus knew of icing problems with the pitot tubes that measure airspeed in the A330 and didn't fix it...Air France 447 stalled due to incorrect airspeed instrument readings and did in fact fall out of the sky killing everyone aboard because of a very preventable and known defect...

Toyota knew they had a sudden acceleration issue in some of their cars and blamed it on floor mats....Toyota just got fined 1.2 billion for not telling the truth on top of what it cost to recall thousands of cars...

GM just recalled thousands of cars because of an ongoing and very well known defect with the ignition switches on some vehicles that allowed heavy key rings to turn the cars off which took away stearing and brake performance and caused many deaths before doing a recall...This one should have been addressed years ago and it's going to cost GM a bundle to fix what should have never been an issue if they had done something before now...

Ford knew the Pinto was a death trap if hit in the rear during a crash causing the fuel tank to rupture...The fix was shorter bumper bolts that cost less than 5 bucks per car but Ford elected to pay settlements to people injured for life and the families of those who burned to death because in the long run it was cheaper for Ford to do that rather than do a recall and fix the problem correctly...

It happens everywhere and I will agree that Kahr has a problem and shouldn't have shipped guns with this known issue but they made a business decision and did it anyway thinking it would be cheaper to fix the ones customers had problems with rather than do a recall to inspect them all because Kahr Arms and their lawyers said it isn't a safety issue...

It isn't right but it isn't a perfect world and to Kahr's credit they are standing behind their product and fixing them under warranty...In time this problem will go away and hopefully Kahr learned a lesson in how important good customer service is....

No one said it was a perfect world but I doubt anyone will sue Kahr nor will a public outrage ensue over it. Just not good business for potential repeat buyers.

[getsome]

Agree 100% In business as with everything else it's always better to do it right the first time than have to explain why you didn't....The recent product problems and especially the bad phone/email experiences have hurt Kahr reputation no doubt....It seems they have made some moves recently to try and improve the situation and I'm sure they will get it solved after the move to their new digs is completed......

[muggsy]

gee getsome, u make good sense. I bet ur wife wrote that for u to. Just sayin and thenb the very next text is from Muggsy which makes zero sense. Just sayn

Did you kiss your wife lips after kissing getsome's behind you old horn swaggler? No one ever died in a ball of flames from a broken follower. My post made more sense than most of yer yapin' and ya didn't need no decoder ring to read it, neither. I don't know why I put up with you. :p

[jocko]

whats a hornb swagler???

[kwh]

A sheep with horns would be a Ram. I guess the swaggler part of the Ram would be the instrument that helps make lambs. Just guessing.

[Rubb]

I received a follower...It only took 22 days :/

[RMac]

Got mine today, and it was at least 22 days as well, but nothing to complain about now... unless this one breaks.

[trentu]

22 days to get parts? That is some pretty sad customer service.

[Bawanna]

I have to believe two things. The delay on the followers had to be a back order issue.

The second is Muggsy and Jocko should get a room, they talk like they are married or something.

Speaking of which, where's Old Lincoln been lately. I need to check on him, hope he didnt' get swallowed by the San Andreas fault.

[jocko]

does anyone rerally think that kahr would hold up an order for 22 days, if they had the parts sitting there????Makes no sense. Kahr does not make their followers. They are an outside vendor part. They don't assembly their magazines, they come fully assembled, again a outside vendor part. Things happen, I doubt if kahr can just order from a vendor 20 followers also. Quantity rules n most business'es. Never good to hav eto wait for aything but it happens. The colonel as usual is right. I personally cannot stand muggsy but he is so intimidating to me that I do my bes to appease him, Just sayin. He sent me a family photo of him and his wife and 8 kids. all I can tell you about him and them is that they all had those fokking towels around their heads, andd all u could see is two eyes sticking out. I have no clue how they eat soup or anything like that. Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

[Rubb]

Yes, according to Ian they were most likely out of stock....no big deal.
Companies these days order JIT and you can get caught when demand rises, again...no big deal.
If demand is up..that probably means a lot of broken followers...a big deal to some.

[trentu]

But you think Kahr Customer service would tell you that at some point. Oh well. Is what it is.

[muggsy]

Well, as long as were back to conjecture, I think the parts were held in limbo buy Obama's Post Office for 22 days.

FYI, Jocko, a hornswaggler is a swindler, hoaxer, poser, cheat, bamboozle or flimflam artist. I believe that you fit into one or more of those many categories. :)

[Rubb]

But you think Kahr Customer service would tell you that at some point. Oh well. Is what it is.



They did...the day I called to check on it..

[trentu]

That was good of them. I would be curious to how many calls and emails they get? All I know is they make some fine arse pistols!

[Rubb]

Over 200 rounds with new follower, nothing broken.
Over 350 total rounds - flawless performance.

Case closed :)

[gb6491]

Over 200 rounds with new follower, nothing broken.
Over 350 total rounds - flawless performance.

Case closed :)
Excellent!
Regards,
Greg

[Falcon3]

It is still happening way more than it should. They do stand behind their products but they also need to improve quality control out of the factory, IMO.