Inspection of new PM9?

[magneticdata]

Hello all, I'm new to the forum and happy to be here. Have a new black PM9 with night sights coming to me by special order this week (hopefully this week). I currently carry a Glock 26 in a Dale Fricke Archangel, which conceals almost well enough for t-shirt wear. I'm going for the Kahr for summer carry. This will be my first Kahr. I've read up on the break in procedures, and will go through this process.

I'm concerned. With everyone's previous experience, are there any issues I can check at the gun shop counter before handing over the cash? Anything that raises a red flag that might have slipped through Kahr's quality control? Any problems that might not have been worked out by early 2014?

I would really appreciate any input. Thanks!

[berettabone]

Besides breaking it down, and visually inspecting it, the only real way is to shoot the @#^* out of it. Besides the usual things that can happen during the breakin period, FTF FTE, etc............you don't really know until it's broke in a bit............unless you break some followers. Welcome.http://kahrtalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Bawanna]

I'd just look it over like any other new gun. Check out the finish, rack the slide, test the trigger. sights centered up. Cosmetic stuff.

It will have a warranty so if you have an issue, you probably wouldn't see it at the counter anyhow and Kahr will take care of it.
It's a pain but the vast majority are ready to go.

[jocko]

u bought one of the finest kahrs made, the DLC finsi is awesome, it is as good as the glock black finish. Do whga tthgey guys here stated ad then just do the prepp before u go out and shoot it, and then just shoot it like u stole it.

Keep your sessions short for awhile, by that I mean less than 100 rounds. Remember u and thegun both have tomate up to be reliable. Ur lock is gonna miss u, trust me on that. Just syin

[smokersteve]

Definitely check the trigger by dry firing it. I bought a cm9 yesterday. The trigger on the one on display was normal. They brought an unpacked one from their storage for me to buy and after dry firing that gun it was obvious the trigger wasn't right. It had a click in it about 1/3 the way back. I bought the one that was on display.
Around here it seems that about 1/4 the Kahrs that I dry fire in LGS that something is not right with the trigger.

[wyntrout]

Welcome to the forum. The DLC PM9 with NS was my first polymer Kahr. It's a great pistol and the backup to my P-sized pistols that I mostly carry now.

Here's my new member download:

Welcome to the Kahrtalk forum supported by K a h r Arms.
Here are a few essential links and things to do BEFORE you take your new pistol to the range, and ESPECIALLY BEFORE taking it apart and trying to re-assemble it! The Kahr is a different design… 6-7 unique patents cover the Kahrs. I’m not trying to imply that you don’t know anything about guns, but many don’t know anything about the Kahrs and some of the things you can do to damage or cause malfunctions of your new, or new-to-you Kahr pistol.

First, if you don’t have a manual, yet, or one didn’t come with your pistol, you can view it and/or download the pdf file here:
http://www.kahr.com/PDF/kahrmanual.pdf

Please watch one of these videos FIRST! These videos can point out possible problem areas and emphasize correct procedures!
Take down and re-assembly videos:
T, TP, CW, P, & PM/CM Series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=G2cZgVg_SwA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G2cZgVg_SwA)
MK series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...mSCnIOaUk#t=0s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zXmSCnIOaUk#t=0s)
K series:
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-K9-Elite.asp

There are many links on fixing problems listed in several places… under the New Member or Kahr Tech sub-forums. To start, a very good one:

Proper Prepping of a new Kahr:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14748

A very handy one is the Kahr Lubrication Diagram:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14750

Many of your questions can be answered in these areas and you can learn how your Kahr works and not damage it with improper handling.

Another great resource for information on Kahrs... Archives of Magazine and Internet Reviews for Kahr pistols by industry experts. They test these pistols and report on their views and the ammo they tested in it. This is a good way to find ammo that might fit your needs along with accuracy and feeding in the pistol... usually from a rest with velocity and energy, as well as penetration and expansion sometimes... very informational.

http://www.kahr.com/product-reviews.asp

Frequently asked questions: http://www.kahr.com/faq.asp?

One very important bit of advice: Hold the Kahr pistol firmly when firing OR CHAMBERING a round. These compact pistols need all of the force they can get from the slide to get a round into the chamber successfully. If you don't hold the pistol firmly, part of the needed momentum is transferred to MOVING THE PISTOL and the top round will DIVE and jam into the right side of the feed ramp. The weak hand, over hand rack method gives the best grip and a firm rack will give you the best chance at chambering a round.

Use the weak hand fingers over the slide(clear of the ejection port), thumb along the slide and pointing to the rear. Use the gun hand to simultaneously firmly push the gun as you give a vigorous rack with the weak hand and cleanly release the slide as it reaches the rear limit and is "snatched" from the weak hand. This approximates a real rack from firing and beats the slide release method WHEN executed properly. Much more strength can be exerted when this is done closer to the body.

Here's a video on that. The first part is what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=hjLbFOw8sow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hjLbFOw8sow)

There are many helpful members here most of the time who might be able to help you, but as anywhere, there are many opinions and not all are correct. Be mindful of this before doing anything drastic to modify your pistol!


For the .45 Kahrs, here's some more info:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14749


Wynn:)
Aka wyntrout

PS: I keep thinking of stuff to add and help new members... and am trying to cover most of the popular subjects. Yes, it's repetitious to many, but possibly not to all new members. This approach is easier than having to look up every tidbit for each new member or question that arises. :)

[magneticdata]

Thanks a lot for all the helpful info, will definitely test the trigger. Will probably try to break in with a heavier load than 115gr. Super excited, still waiting for it to arrive. I really hope to find it flawless, as I had to go through the repair shuffle with a brand new Kel Tec carbine, and it wasn't a cheap/fun process to find out it wasn't breaking in properly.

[muggsy]

Do yourself a favor and break it in with good quality ammo and not the usual range fodder. Clean it every fifty rounds during the break in to minimize malfunctions. If you aren't familiar with long double action triggers don't be concerned about accuracy when you first start shooting it. The accuracy will come with practice. You picked a real winner. Enjoy your gun.

[magneticdata]

Muggsy, what would you suggest as an affordable break in ammo? Found some Winchester 9mm NATO in an LGS for a decent price.


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[Bawanna]

That'll work fine.

[RRP]

Muggsy, what would you suggest as an affordable break in ammo? Found some Winchester 9mm NATO in an LGS for a decent price.


Perfect. NATO is hotter than most cheap range ammo.

That will go slicker than sh!t through a tin horn. Have fun!

[magneticdata]

UPDATE:

Picked up the PM9 from "Everything Weapons" in Brentwood, TN (just south of Nashville) and went through the prep process. Had a very good experience with the people at the shop...highly recommended if you live in the area. They charged a reasonable amount for the Black PM9 with night sights, and got it in within 4 days of my special order. They have an offsite indoor range not too far away in Franklin, TN. Lots of ammo. The guys/gal at the range were kind enough to let me sit at the observation bench outside the range and go through the prep process. I then fired 100 rounds of NATO 124gr by Winchester, without any malfunctions. I then cleaned and lubed the PM9 again, then fired another 100, without any malfunctions! Sorry to go against the previous advice of 100 round limit but I was excited to go for it! In addition, fired a handful of Hornady Critical Duty standard pressure, also with no problems in a dirty gun. Went on with another mag of Fed Hydra-Shok 124gr Tactical, again no issues.

At this point, my hands were chewed up pretty nicely, but the happiness of having no problems shadowed the pain of shooting too many rounds. I consciously worked on learning the trigger during this process, and got the hang of it pretty well towards the end of all that shooting. I have large hands. I learned that I have to use the crease in joint on my trigger finger, rather than the pad of finger as I'm used to with Glocks. Using the pad of finger with the Kahr, the trigger guard was bashing my finger with the upwards jump of recoil. Having the finger further in removed the problem. Went home, did a thorough cleaning, and lubed with CLP. Noticed a couple things.

I went back to the range to continue the break in above 200 rounds. I fired another 150 NATO, again with no problems. Fired 40 Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P rounds, no problems. SNAPPY! Sore hands!

Concerns after second cleaning:

-Slide stop contact with bullet
-Denting of recoil spring assembly.

After the range session I cleaned the pistol at home thoroughly and re-lubed. I did some inspection with the slide pin installed without the slide to see if the protrusion was coming in contact with the bullet. It looks like it's making a tiny bit of contact sometimes if the second round in the mag is slightly to the left. I advanced the rounds by hand, sometimes having the second round nosedive under the protrusion if it moved forward with the first round. I understand that this is not the same as in firing as far as stripping next round to be chambered. When firing, it's more like yanking the table cloth out from under the plates and cups on the table, leaving them standing, not like slowly pulling the whole dinner off onto the floor. :hungry: I have read that this might be of concern, possibly causing premature slide lock back. Should I worry about this, seeing as I had no malfunctions?

There is some denting happening on the metal cylinder part of the recoil spring assembly that the large spring slides over. This denting seemed to happen on the side of the assembly that was facing the frame during shooting as I rotated it for the second range session and got some denting in the new position. Is this normal or something to question?

Thanks for taking the time. I want to be fully confident in the PM9 before carry.

[RRP]

Excellent, thorough report, MD. You did all the right things during prep and break-in.

Now to your questions.
I would not worry about malfunctions at this point. Given the number of trouble-free rounds you shot already, I would have confidence in the gun. No sense worrying about a problem you could not replicate while shooting.
The dented guide rod is something we've seen quite often, but I've never read a report of complete failure. Since this is a new gun, I would send some photos to Kahr and ask for their advice. They may replace the RSA and tell you to shoot it like you stole it.

Great report. Keep us posted on Kahr's response on the recoil spring assembly.

[muggsy]

Just avoid the aluminum or steel case ammo. I broke my Kahrs in with PMC Bronze and Blazer brass. Shoot ball ammo and avoid the flat nose projectiles. Flat nose bullets don't feed well in some Kahr pistols. Keep it clean and well lubed during the break-in.

[JERRY]

the more I shoot my PM9 the more I want another just like it. I might have to trade a S&W wheely for a CM9 if I can.

[jocko]

UPDATE:

Picked up the PM9 from "Everything Weapons" in Brentwood, TN (just south of Nashville) and went through the prep process. Had a very good experience with the people at the shop...highly recommended if you live in the area. They charged a reasonable amount for the Black PM9 with night sights, and got it in within 4 days of my special order. They have an offsite indoor range not too far away in Franklin, TN. Lots of ammo. The guys/gal at the range were kind enough to let me sit at the observation bench outside the range and go through the prep process. I then fired 100 rounds of NATO 124gr by Winchester, without any malfunctions. I then cleaned and lubed the PM9 again, then fired another 100, without any malfunctions! Sorry to go against the previous advice of 100 round limit but I was excited to go for it! In addition, fired a handful of Hornady Critical Duty standard pressure, also with no problems in a dirty gun. Went on with another mag of Fed Hydra-Shok 124gr Tactical, again no issues.

At this point, my hands were chewed up pretty nicely, but the happiness of having no problems shadowed the pain of shooting too many rounds. I consciously worked on learning the trigger during this process, and got the hang of it pretty well towards the end of all that shooting. I have large hands. I learned that I have to use the crease in joint on my trigger finger, rather than the pad of finger as I'm used to with Glocks. Using the pad of finger with the Kahr, the trigger guard was bashing my finger with the upwards jump of recoil. Having the finger further in removed the problem. Went home, did a thorough cleaning, and lubed with CLP. Noticed a couple things.

I went back to the range to continue the break in above 200 rounds. I fired another 150 NATO, again with no problems. Fired 40 Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P rounds, no problems. SNAPPY! Sore hands!

Concerns after second cleaning:

-Slide stop contact with bullet
-Denting of recoil spring assembly.

After the range session I cleaned the pistol at home thoroughly and re-lubed. I did some inspection with the slide pin installed without the slide to see if the protrusion was coming in contact with the bullet. It looks like it's making a tiny bit of contact sometimes if the second round in the mag is slightly to the left. I advanced the rounds by hand, sometimes having the second round nosedive under the protrusion if it moved forward with the first round. I understand that this is not the same as in firing as far as stripping next round to be chambered. When firing, it's more like yanking the table cloth out from under the plates and cups on the table, leaving them standing, not like slowly pulling the whole dinner off onto the floor. :hungry: I have read that this might be of concern, possibly causing premature slide lock back. Should I worry about this, seeing as I had no malfunctions?

There is some denting happening on the metal cylinder part of the recoil spring assembly that the large spring slides over. This denting seemed to happen on the side of the assembly that was facing the frame during shooting as I rotated it for the second range session and got some denting in the new position. Is this normal or something to question?

Thanks for taking the time. I want to be fully confident in the PM9 before carry.
shooting the gun ...Hand cycling is just that, hand cyling, not really what the gun is designed to do to show any issues. Shooting it will. If the rounds are hitting that nub on the slide lock lever by handcycling but not in firng then leave it alonne. U might want to read in the kahr tech section under prepping ur kahr ab out the secnd round thing. It just might be that follower hading up on the mag release button causing that second round to look \different. It is very correctable if u wantto do what it is explained. Again if it is doing fine shooting it, then IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT.the dented tube will hurt nadda. I have seen a few of these in the past, Have no clue why it is like that either. coul;d have been that way from the git go. Takea photo of it and send it to kahr attn: Jay. they might send u a new one, again it is not gonna be an issue. U got a great gun there, Put some more round down range and manyt things will just take careof themselves. Keep us posted. That recoil assembly tube is stainless and no doubt stronge as hell, I can't forsee what would cause a dent in it..

I have seen some that muggsy took a hammer to and then asked if this was normal:7::7:

[Rubb]

the more i shoot my pm9 the more i want another just like it. I might have to trade a s&w wheely for a cm9 if i can.

btdt....just didn't trade anything :)

[jocko]

rubb: there is only one GREAT KAHR in that p;hoto and it aint' that bottom one either. Just sayi

[Rubb]

rubb: there is only one GREAT KAHR in that p;hoto and it aint' that bottom one either. Just sayi


if only one is great...what's the other....should I dump it?


just askin

[kahrnut1]

I got a pair like that. jocko why don't u get a J stencil and send it around so we can put the proper model on our guns.

[muggsy]

if only one is great...what's the other....should I dump it?


just askin

Rubb, pay no attention to the man wearing the clown nose. He's talking out of his anal pore. Both pictured guns are works of ballistic art. :)

[muggsy]

UPDATE:

Picked up the PM9 from "Everything Weapons" in Brentwood, TN (just south of Nashville) and went through the prep process. Had a very good experience with the people at the shop...highly recommended if you live in the area. They charged a reasonable amount for the Black PM9 with night sights, and got it in within 4 days of my special order. They have an offsite indoor range not too far away in Franklin, TN. Lots of ammo. The guys/gal at the range were kind enough to let me sit at the observation bench outside the range and go through the prep process. I then fired 100 rounds of NATO 124gr by Winchester, without any malfunctions. I then cleaned and lubed the PM9 again, then fired another 100, without any malfunctions! Sorry to go against the previous advice of 100 round limit but I was excited to go for it! In addition, fired a handful of Hornady Critical Duty standard pressure, also with no problems in a dirty gun. Went on with another mag of Fed Hydra-Shok 124gr Tactical, again no issues.

At this point, my hands were chewed up pretty nicely, but the happiness of having no problems shadowed the pain of shooting too many rounds. I consciously worked on learning the trigger during this process, and got the hang of it pretty well towards the end of all that shooting. I have large hands. I learned that I have to use the crease in joint on my trigger finger, rather than the pad of finger as I'm used to with Glocks. Using the pad of finger with the Kahr, the trigger guard was bashing my finger with the upwards jump of recoil. Having the finger further in removed the problem. Went home, did a thorough cleaning, and lubed with CLP. Noticed a couple things.

I went back to the range to continue the break in above 200 rounds. I fired another 150 NATO, again with no problems. Fired 40 Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P rounds, no problems. SNAPPY! Sore hands!

Concerns after second cleaning:

-Slide stop contact with bullet
-Denting of recoil spring assembly.

After the range session I cleaned the pistol at home thoroughly and re-lubed. I did some inspection with the slide pin installed without the slide to see if the protrusion was coming in contact with the bullet. It looks like it's making a tiny bit of contact sometimes if the second round in the mag is slightly to the left. I advanced the rounds by hand, sometimes having the second round nosedive under the protrusion if it moved forward with the first round. I understand that this is not the same as in firing as far as stripping next round to be chambered. When firing, it's more like yanking the table cloth out from under the plates and cups on the table, leaving them standing, not like slowly pulling the whole dinner off onto the floor. :hungry: I have read that this might be of concern, possibly causing premature slide lock back. Should I worry about this, seeing as I had no malfunctions?

There is some denting happening on the metal cylinder part of the recoil spring assembly that the large spring slides over. This denting seemed to happen on the side of the assembly that was facing the frame during shooting as I rotated it for the second range session and got some denting in the new position. Is this normal or something to question?

Thanks for taking the time. I want to be fully confident in the PM9 before carry.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. You could remove the offending metal on the slide stop, but if the gun is 100% reliable why bother? Should you encounter a problem in the future, you'll know what to do. As to the denting, a picture says a thousand words. I don't think it's anything to worry about.
P.S. the only thing that I've ever thought about taking a hammer to is the head if that guy wearing the clown nose who is talking out of his anal pore. :)

[AIRret]

[QUOTE=magneticdata;293443]Hello all, I'm new to the forum and happy to be here. Have a new black PM9 with night sights coming to me by special order this week (hopefully this week).

I have the same gun with over 3,000 rounds through it and the finish has held up real well even though I don't baby my guns.

In order to get used to the trigger I spent a lot of time dry firing (which I still do) while balancing a snap cap on top of the front sight.
It was/is a cheap way to get extra trigger work!

[magneticdata]

Here are photos of the denting/galling.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/5ageqaze.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/7esyba7e.jpg


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[magneticdata]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/2arysa9a.jpg


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[AIRret]

I'd call Kahr and see what they have to say.

At least you will have the issue documented.

[magneticdata]

Yeah, seems I should call. Noticing a polymer problem as well.

The piece of polymer behind the ejector seems to be bent back slightly. It now sticks out a bit under the rear slide cover when assembled. Here's some photos. There's also some chew going on where the polymer guides start, mid frame above where the slide stop installs. I've seen others photos of this too. Here's some photos.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/urequzuq.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/sezamydu.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/3eteru8y.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/7abaryra.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/zyve6aju.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/eqe2u8aq.jpg


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[southern thunder]

Congrats on a fine firearm.

[Rubb]

Rubb, pay no attention to the man wearing the clown nose. He's talking out of his anal pore. Both pictured guns are works of ballistic art. :)


Lol...I'm just messin with him...
He doesn't remember it, but me and ol Jocko go back a bit.

[jocko]

I got a pair like that. jocko why don't u get a J stencil and send it around so we can put the proper model on our guns.

that blunt nose tome and I will stencil it properly. Only one thing better than the PMJ9 blunt nose and this owning two of tem, which I also do myself.

I had a frend who had a PMJ9 and he just didn't lke it and likemylcp380 if u can believe that sh!t. He offered t trade me EVEN. So I took him up on it. My second best kahr next to my original custom PMJ9:Amflag2:

[jocko]

Yeah, seems I should call. Noticing a polymer problem as well.

The piece of polymer behind the ejector seems to be bent back slightly. It now sticks out a bit under the rear slide cover when assembled. Here's some photos. There's also some chew going on where the polymer guides start, mid frame above where the slide stop installs. I've seen others photos of this too. Here's some photos.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/urequzuq.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/sezamydu.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/3eteru8y.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/7abaryra.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/zyve6aju.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/eqe2u8aq.jpg


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cents on the back side of the grip area. Kahr will not do anything about it. It is what it is, there is nutting causingit utter than that was the way it came out of the mold. U arejust noticing it now but it was there from the git go. It will effect nadda in reliability. Wehve seen this before and some who just cannot live with looking at it that way have just fled it down and moved on..The scoring on the recoil tube is normal, as that spring is moving faster than Wild Bill Clinton zipping his pants up after hearing Hillary is on the way.

The dented part, I still think i my little mind was there at the git go but never noticed. It also will effect nadda but u can photo it and send it to kahr attn: Jay and present ur case. The scoring is not really scoring IO, it is removing some of the outter finish on the tube and that is all. There has to be some wear there, no way to get away from it. I spray my recoil tube with remington Dry lube along with the outter spring. No runs but gives some friction resistance--I think.

I personally don't see anythig to get upset about, but tyhatis ur call to make, . What I think and what u think and what kahr thinks is the final word, no doubt.:Amflag2: