CW45 owners

[marcinstl]

hello 45 owners. I was sitting here doing a little Sunday afternoon dry firing and noticed something odd. holding an empty CW45 in one hand, grab the slide in the front using finger and thumb. try to lift the slide up. try to wiggle the slide up and down. mine moves about 1/16th of an inch. is this normal? probably just the first time I noticed this? thank you.

[RRP]

Yes, that seems to be normal with Kahrs. As "tight" as many claim Kahrs to be, the slide-to-frame interface is quite sloppy.

It doesn't seem to affect accuracy at all. My advice is shoot it and forget it.

[tony k]

I was pretty much doing the same thing this after noon with my CW45. I was trying to figure out what was causing the slide to be difficult to rack. I was pulling the front of the slide up and down to try and figure out if pulling up or pushing down causes it to not slide back. like yours, the slide can move up and down at least 1/16 of an inch.

I finally figured out that the slide sticks out farther than the front metal guide rails. In other words the front of the slide is completley unsupported untll it travels back far enough to begin traveling on the rails. Is yours like this Marc?

I have somewhere between 750 and 1000 rounds through mine. What concerns me is that the right front rail is developing a burr, and there is a spot of wear on the slide where said right front rail is making contact. Others have mentioned that their slides are difficult to rack. I wonder if our metal rails are just about .01" too short.

I plan to contact Kahr tomorrow about a different issue (slide stop mag catch still hitting bullets and causing jams even after modification/ replacement of slide stop, as well as frequent light primer strikes). I will mention this as well.

Also, I will post some pictures of the burr on the front rail and associated wear on the slide when I get access to a faster connection.

Oh, and by the way... I'm not talking about anything to do with the plastic "rails" or the proof mark on the left hand rail, or "bowed or bent" rails. I know it's common for newer Kahr owners such as myself to see those and think there is a problem. I've read most of the forum stickys and know the basics.

Anyway Marc, mine is the same with regard to the amount of play at the front of the slide, and I know what is causing it in mine. Maybe yours is the same. I'm calling Kahr tomorrow to find out if it's an issue.

[hardluk1]

You just had me checking mine again. My cw9 slide engaged on the lower metal rails by .115 My tp40 by .145. I do have a little up and down wiggle but only the difference between the slides slot for the rails and the rail . Not a 1/16th but some. Use a fine line marker to mark the end of your slide where it meets the frame then measure back to the rails to be sure you really have an issue.

[gb6491]

I was pretty much doing the same thing this after noon with my CW45. I was trying to figure out what was causing the slide to be difficult to rack. I was pulling the front of the slide up and down to try and figure out if pulling up or pushing down causes it to not slide back. like yours, the slide can move up and down at least 1/16 of an inch.

I finally figured out that the slide sticks out farther than the front metal guide rails. In other words the front of the slide is completley unsupported untll it travels back far enough to begin traveling on the rails. Is yours like this Marc?

I have somewhere between 750 and 1000 rounds through mine. What concerns me is that the right front rail is developing a burr, and there is a spot of wear on the slide where said right front rail is making contact. Others have mentioned that their slides are difficult to rack. I wonder if our metal rails are just about .01" too short.

I plan to contact Kahr tomorrow about a different issue (slide stop mag catch still hitting bullets and causing jams even after modification/ replacement of slide stop, as well as frequent light primer strikes). I will mention this as well.

Also, I will post some pictures of the burr on the front rail and associated wear on the slide when I get access to a faster connection.

Oh, and by the way... I'm not talking about anything to do with the plastic "rails" or the proof mark on the left hand rail, or "bowed or bent" rails. I know it's common for newer Kahr owners such as myself to see those and think there is a problem. I've read most of the forum stickys and know the basics.

Anyway Marc, mine is the same with regard to the amount of play at the front of the slide, and I know what is causing it in mine. Maybe yours is the same. I'm calling Kahr tomorrow to find out if it's an issue.
Well shucks:(, I just checked this on my CW45 and it's the same way.
My pistol runs fine, but I'm not happy with this discovery (very unsatisfactory).
Thanks for the post and please let us know what Kahr's response is.
Regards,
Greg

FWIW, my CW9 does not not exhibit this (though by not much).

[marcinstl]

I've only got maybe 500 rounds run thru mine and if others have 1000 rounds thru theres then I guess it isn't a problem, I'll keep shooting it. just thought I'd come over here and ask. really glad there is a place like this to ask questions. thanks. this is my first poly gun, hmmm, wonder what a glock is like or a taurus? I figure the CW45, loaded, in a kydex holster is coming up on 30 oz., lots better than trying to carry a 1911. good shooting.

[tony k]

Greg Said:

Well shucks, I just checked this on my CW45 and it's the same way.
My pistol runs fine, but I'm not happy with this discovery (very unsatisfactory).
Thanks for the post and please let us know what Kahr's response is.

I called Kahr this morning at about 0700 pacific. I was speaking with Ian in about 1 minute. I began to explain the issue, and as soon as I began to say, "the slide appears to extend beyond the front rails and there is a burr forming on the front edge on the right frame rail," he stopped my rambling and said "what is your email, phone number, and mailing address, sir?" I gave it to him and he said he'd like to have their gunsmiths look at it.

I had a Fedex return label in my email by 1300. I wrote a nice note explaining the issue and a few other issues i'd like them to look at. I plan to put the note in with the gun. I'll pack it up tomorrow and get it out asap.

I definitely can't complain about that type of customer service. This is the second time I've spoken with Ian and, while some might be put off by his impersonal approach and direct manner, I think it's his way of being prompt, professional, and to the point. in fact, I get a little sick of the mealy-mouthed and disingenuous fluff from other customer service reps at other companies, but I digress...

I think I saw on The High Road where someone had a CM9 or P9 break the right front rail. I wonder if it didn't start out as this same slide overtravel/short front frame rail we're noticing on our guns. Anyone else seeing a burr form on the front of the rail like mine has?

Kinda bummed I'm not gonna have my Kahr around for a while. When it shoots well, it shoots really well. It's also my girlfriend's new favorite because it's so light and has such a sweet trigger. She can shoot fist-sized groups at 15 yards standing, but again, I digress...

I'll post more as things develop.

[marcinstl]

here's a totally rumor based reply. there was a youtube video of a guy with an early poly Kahr, the poly around the rails looked like his dog had been chewing on it. he was bummed, but admitted the gun ran just fine. the comments said-- early poly, they changed the plastics formula, new ones are ok. the only thing to really worry about is the metal to metal parts. hope I never have to talk to Ian, but glad to know he's there. please post results of trip to factory. thanks.

[tony k]

not to be repetitive, but I've spoken with Ian twice in the past few months and I'm totally satisfied with his customer service approach. I state the facts; he addresses the issues according to the warranty. No insincere attempts to make me "feel" better by saying B.S. like "oh, I understand sir. I'm so sorry to hear you are having problems...blah, blah..."

We're dealing with firearms issues, not issues with chafing underwear. If I need emotional coddling I'll call my mom, not Kahr customer service. Ian should stick to the no BS approach, IMO. I find it refreshing.

I'm guessing my gun has arrived at Kahr by now. I'll post when I hear more.

Hey, marcinstl. I've kinda hijacked your thread, but I'd rather keep posting it here than start a new one. You ok with that?

[tony k]

I was just over at the hardware store. They had a cm9 ($459), and a cw380 ($399). Neither gun had a slide that over shot the front rails. Way less slop and no binding while racking the slide.

Do those prices seem a little high?

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[DavidR]

Prices are at least $50 high.


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[marcinstl]

check the prices at Davidson's "gun genie" and Bud's gun's. ask the hardware guy if he does FFL transfers because you found a gun online and need an FFL to receive it. he'll ask you what gun and you show him the printout of the pages with prices. (actually gun genie will let you look at the pricing at shops near you. ) your the customer and the customer is always right, so have fun with your local merchants, make them work for a sale.
to review-- hold your safety checked gun in one hand and with the thumb and finger of the other hand get a hold of the slide on each side of the front sight, see if it wiggles up and down. I originally said a 1/16th of and inch, well maybe 1/32nd is more like it. I'll check back and see if you heard anything from Kahr.
(when your shopping for a semi-auto, try to find one in the weight and caliber that you want, in your price range, read and watch the video reviews to see whats said about the trigger. if you can rent one, shot a box thru it. oh, and get online and see if you can buy magazines, in stock not back ordered. I did all of this and Kahr was the last gun standing.) (sorry M&P, Glock, etc.)

[tony k]

David R Said:

Prices are at least $50 high.

That's what I though too. In fact, I bought my cw45 from these guys in feb. CW45 + 2 boxes of plinking ammo was less than $400 dollars. Not sure why they are so proud of their cm9 and cw380s.

Marcinstl Said:

hold your safety checked gun in one hand and with the thumb and finger of the other hand get a hold of the slide on each side of the front sight, see if it wiggles up and down. I originally said a 1/16th of and inch, well maybe 1/32nd is more like it.

That's exactly what I did, and mine was definitely at least 1/16th of an inch.

Also thanks for the gun buying tips. The hardware store does ffl transfers, and they've done it for me in the past. They charge $25, so it would be pretty easy to beat their prices even with the $25 fee. I'm not Nostradamus, but I predict a CM9 in my future.

I hope to hear from Kahr this week about the CW45. Will post here.

[marcinstl]

I started carrying last Nov., first in an outside belt holster and then a homeade pocket holster(kydex, fashioned after the Alabama Holster Co. pocket model). the CW45 in my pocket is pushing 30 oz. (chubby guys need a chubby gun, huh?) for summer time I'm looking for something lighter and reliable and decent price and made in US and something that fully fits in my hand and I can shoot--- see how I quickly worked to a CW9? CW9 loaded is about 21 oz. no cross training on a different gun type.
(if I find a CW9 in a gun store, I'll wiggle the slide and see if I can get another $50 off, hehehehehe.)

[smokersteve]

I was just over at the hardware store. They had a cm9 ($459), and a cw380 ($399). Neither gun had a slide that over shot the front rails. Way less slop and no binding while racking the slide.

Do those prices seem a little high?

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

Paid $389 for nib CM9 couple weeks ago from LGS
Paid $317 for nib CW380 few months ago from LGS

[marcinstl]

when I first posted about the loose slide, I was lazy and just came here to drop off my question. I should have googled the question. here's same/similar question on different boards.
http://pistolsmith.com/kahr-pistols/2846-kahr-p9-slide-frame-fit.html
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=12240
and my favorite,
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_35/101594_Kahr_frame_to_slide_fit_.html
(I just picked up the new(virgin in the box) CW9 and it's tight. see what it looks like after the 200 round break in, that's really about a 500 round break in.)

[tony k]

I was getting a little impatient, so I called Kahr yesterday to inquire about the status of my cw45. Ian told me they received the gun on March 24 and to expect a 4-6 week turn around time. That puts the gun back in my hands sometime between april 20 and may 9.

I always thought the 4-6 week time frame was a cya statement. I guess it's true for Kahr at the moment. Maybe moving ops to Pennsylvania has something to do with it.

Maybe I'll just go the route of MarcinStl and buy a CW9. Kinda want one anyway, and I like his justification of not having to learn a new platform ;).

Maybe I'll go back to the hardware store to see if they still have the CM9 and the CW380. Maybe I can get them to come down a little bit in price on theCM9. Not expecting the smokin deals Smokersteve got, but I got a tax return burning a hole in my pocket.

[gb6491]

Thanks for the update. My CW45 is back there as well.

I happened to check a new CW45 at a local shop yesterday and found that it has the same issue, not an encouraging sign:(

For those interested, the issue is that the front metal rails are not engaging the slide when the pistol is in battery (see post #3 (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=293598&postcount=3) by tony k)

Regards,
Greg

[muggsy]

hello 45 owners. I was sitting here doing a little Sunday afternoon dry firing and noticed something odd. holding an empty CW45 in one hand, grab the slide in the front using finger and thumb. try to lift the slide up. try to wiggle the slide up and down. mine moves about 1/16th of an inch. is this normal? probably just the first time I noticed this? thank you.

The barrel and slide move up and down in unison, so it shouldn't affect accuracy. There has to be some tolerance or the slide wouldn't be able to move freely. Without even looking at your gun I'd say it was normal. If you look at the front rail you will notice that it is quite a bit narrower that the grove in the slide that it runs in. You guys are worrying about things that you needn't worry about. As a good friend of mine is prone to say, "Just shoot the fokker like you stole it."

[gb6491]

The barrel and slide move up and down in unison, so it shouldn't affect accuracy. There has to be some tolerance or the slide wouldn't be able to move freely. Without even looking at your gun I'd say it was normal. If you look at the front rail you will notice that it is quite a bit narrower that the grove in the slide that it runs in. You guys are worrying about things that you needn't worry about. As a good friend of mine is prone to say, "Just shoot the fokker like you stole it."
My apologies, I guess I've not explained the issue with my CW45 well enough.
My pistol's issue is more in keeping with what tony k wrote in post #3 (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=293598&postcount=3); "the slide sticks out farther than the front metal guide rails. In other words the front of the slide is completley unsupported untll it travels back far enough to begin traveling on the rails."
It's not about the width of the grooves in the slide as compared to the rails in the dust cover. What I'm seeing is that when the slide is completely forward/in battery, the grooves are ahead of the end of the frame rails.
I think a properly made poly Kahr (or least it's how my CW9 is made) would have a slide and front rails interface something similar to that in this photo:
http://i61.tinypic.com/30xhlpe.jpg
My CW45 has this instead:
http://i62.tinypic.com/2dm8bva.jpg
In this condition, the front of the slide is being held in alignment by the poly rails on top of the frame. If I apply a small amount of pressure to the dust cover at this point, it's not possible to retract the slide. I'll grant that the chances of an sort of similar pressure happening during the actually operation of the pistol is remote, but I also find it conceivable that conditions of heat or cold might possibly cause the frame to move out of alignment enough to produce similar results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbM9ADBIQcc
Regards,
Greg

[jocko]

doesn't look normal to me GB ur showing two cw45 andone has the rail inside the slide groovbe and the utter not. I would forward this to Jay at kahr and ask for an explanation. This just seems a$$ backwards

Nice photos. the bottom photo wold concern me ..

[gb6491]

I talked to Ian two weeks ago and sent it in afterwards (well truthfully, the shop I bought it from did the shipping).
Regards,
Greg

[tony k]

Perfect illustrations, GB. Thank you. The bottom one is what mine does in full battery. The only thing I'd add is a big ole burr forming on the leading edge of the frame rail from misalignment during firing.

I vote GB as the official Kahrtalk illustrator/photographer!

[yqtszhj]

I talked to Ian two weeks ago and sent it in afterwards (well truthfully, the shop I bought it from did the shipping).
Regards,
Greg

Hey Greg, how many rounds have you got through yours? I can't remember how many I have through mine but maybe it's 500 or so. I'm trying to gauge how long someone can go with the issue before it may cause a problem.

I looked at mine and it's looks like in the beginning maybe they barely touched because if I push down lightly on the front of the slide I can't nudge the slide back at all even a fraction of an inch. It's locked up. Also when looking at the front of the rails I can see some wear also.

I will say it still shoots fine though. :59:

[yqtszhj]

Side note, can someone with a PM45 check theirs and see if they have the issue?

[gb6491]

Hey Greg, how many rounds have you got through yours? I can't remember how many I have through mine but maybe it's 500 or so. I'm trying to gauge how long someone can go with the issue before it may cause a problem.

I looked at mine and it's looks like in the beginning maybe they barely touched because if I push down lightly on the front of the slide I can't nudge the slide back at all even a fraction of an inch. It's locked up. Also when looking at the front of the rails I can see some wear also.

I will say it still shoots fine though. :59:
I'd estimate well on the plus side of a thousand rounds through it. I'll also say that mine still shot fine, though I recollect noticing a slight hitch once in a while when working the slide (never gave that much thought before). I guess the poly rails do a better job than we or Kahr give them credit for. That's not to say that I want to rely on them to continue to do so.
Regards,
Greg

[marcinstl]

I went over to youtube and watched your vid, left this reply--
"I followed this over here from Kahrtalk, I'm the OP. thanks for the video. my CW45(now nicknamed, "Ol, Lucy", does the same thing, I can lock it up by squeezing the slide in the plastic. the more I think about it, this isn't a Kahr problem, although they should have forseen some of their OCD customers like me. hehehehe. the barrel and the slide and the sights are not moving relative to each other as the trigger is pulled. the trigger bar still works the striker. the gun goes bang and even with me operating it the bullet hits the target. what we got here is an Age of Plastics aesthetics problem. maybe Kahr will take the CW45 in on trade for one of their all metal Auto-Ord 1911's? "
(I'm shooting the CW9 better than the 45 as it has less recoil and is easier to manage. I also shot a Glock 17 and with that "single action" type trigger was really putting rounds on target. G17 is a range gun, good target trigger, not sure I'd use a Glock for a carry gun, kind of like a cocked but not locked 1911.

[marcinstl]

so it's been a couple of months, anybody hear back from Kahr?

[Kansas53]

so it's been a couple of months, anybody hear back from Kahr?

Just bought mine and have a definite interest in this as well. Mine has the exact problem as everyone else here. I have contacted them twice by email and haven't heard back yet.

Thanks!!!

[adooley]

Just bought mine and have a definite interest in this as well. Mine has the exact problem as everyone else here. I have contacted them twice by email and haven't heard back yet.

Thanks!!!

Try calling the support line. I called and Ian didn't even wait for me to describe the problem. He immediately wanted a serial number to setup a return shipping label. I was calling from the office and didn't have it available. All in all, I've shot it and am hesitant to send it off for 1-2 months when the issue doesn't present any functional problem under normal conditions.

Having said that, I'll probably still send it in.

[marcinstl]

well, wanted to end this thread (get it off the books, so to speak), so I emailed Kahr and got this reply (next day)------

"Good morning.

The situation described does not present any cause for concern and is the firearm passing through the break in period. As long as the firearm is functioning well there should be no cause for concern.

Have a good day from Kahr.

Eoin Pryal.
Kahr Arms."

so I'm calling that official and will proceed to the range for another box of 50. Yippeee!

[adooley]

well, wanted to end this thread (get it off the books, so to speak), so I emailed Kahr and got this reply (next day)------

"Good morning.

The situation described does not present any cause for concern and is the firearm passing through the break in period. As long as the firearm is functioning well there should be no cause for concern.

Have a good day from Kahr.

Eoin Pryal.
Kahr Arms."

so I'm calling that official and will proceed to the range for another box of 50. Yippeee!


I did notice that my slide was quite sticky when I first bought it but after a few hundred times manually racking the slide, and 100 rds of range time, it loosed up. I can still get it to catch slightly but I have to work at it. Another couple of hundred rounds ought to do it.

Since that is Eoin's response, looks like I'm not sending mine in after all. Thanks for sharing.

[gb6491]

Well, I got a call yesterday from my local shop that my CW45 had returned.

I'm happy to report that it's fixed (Kudos to Kahr and the Colonel).:)

It sports a new serial number as the frame was replaced.
The front frame rails now engage the slide grooves when the slide is in battery.

I believe they used all the remaining parts of my old pistol to complete the build. I'm glad for that as the old gun was exceptionally accurate with a nice smooth trigger. The "new" gun exhibits those traits as well.:D

I put thirty rounds of 230gr. Winchester "white box" ball through it before I thought to check if it had been lubed by Kahr....it was bone-dry, but hadn't missed a beat.

Regards,
Greg

[marcinstl]

hehehehehe, yours must have been extra broken in or did you leave it out in the desert sun all day? I'm glad Kahr fixed that and made you happy. happy Kahr shooters, that's us.

[gb6491]

hehehehehe, yours must have been extra broken in or did you leave it out in the desert sun all day? I'm glad Kahr fixed that and made you happy. happy Kahr shooters, that's us.
LOL, I had a similar thought ("broke in") when I read your post about Customer Service's reply that "The situation described does not present any cause for concern and is the firearm passing through the break in period."
CS will probably need to rethink that after they hear from AFDoc:
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=23886
Thanks for the chuckle.:)
Regards,
Greg

[marcinstl]

Greg,
whereas I think I was being cautious and reporting what I observed my CW45 doing- getting loose and breaking in, I can see where your gun was broken and needed parts replacing. sounds like AFDoc needs a new gun. my "buddy" the salesman at the gun store kids me about trading in the Kahr($380) for a Wilson Combat($3200). anyway, I'm glad there's Kahrtalk.

[adooley]

After reading that they replaced gb6491's frame I decided to call up Kahr and get their perspective. They provided a FedEx shipping label and it is going in the mail tonight. Just got the dang thing and now it'll be gone for a month. Sigh.

[marcinstl]

so your pride and joy is going on vacation and leaving you all alone, sigh? hehehehe. hope you have a sharp stick while your waiting. after reading around on various gun boards, I get the feeling Kahr treats the owners pretty good. not mentioning any names but I've seen where some gun co.'s (even high dollar Euro guns) don't. good luck and I hope your CW45 comes back perfect. then back to the range and blast away.

[marcinstl]

I came across this video and thought I'd link it here for amusement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwQoMEedmU
this is a review of a Ruger P345. the guy doesn't have a clue what he's holding. playing with the metal slide he says the frame is metal. wrong. this was one of the first metal slide/plastic frame guns. big, duty size .45.
notice how the slide rattles on the frame. notice how it shoots. rental gun with thousands of rounds thru it, still making money for the range.

[marcinstl]

ok, Greg(and his new frame) got me to thinking. so I measured my CW45. remove the slide, take the ruler and measure from the end of the front of the metal guide strip("front frame rail") to the front of the frame. I get just a hair under 3/16", call it 5/32". put a piece of tape on the slide just as it comes out of the frame as a reference, removed the frame, as best I can tell from holding the frame and slide, lined up, side by side, the slide just barely is engaged and in constant contact with those metal strips and will ride back on them as the slide moves to the rear.
what's all that prove? take the gun to the range, put a .45 hole in the target where the red dot was, repeat, repeat, smile.....

[adooley]

I did something similar, but had no contact until the slide moves back about 1/16". There was a lot of up and down play in the front of the slide. Either way it is in Kahr's hands now. Its a matter of a verrry long wait to see what happens.

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[tony k]

I finally heard back from kahr! Their phone message said my front frame rails were .050" too short. Like Greg, they are replacing the frame. They just need to know which ffl I want it sent to. I guess I'm gonna have a new serial number frame with all the old parts. I look forward to having it back, but in the mean time I'll continue to shoot the hell out of my awesome cm9.
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[leftysixty]

Glad to hear that they're gon'a fix you up!

[marcinstl]

"said my front frame rails were .050" too short." WTF!? unbelievable! the machine that cuts these "rails" out of stock wasn't set up right, the rails went to the polymer company and nobody noticed, the completed frame came back to Kahr and nobody noticed? this ain't kimchi, it's a damn gun!
if you pull the slide off the gun, line up the slide next to the frame so that the rear of the 2 pieces are where they should be and look, those rails should engage the groves in the slide by at least a 1/16th". (eyeball, not science).
the people with problems have exchanged serial numbers to see if it was the same production run?
Kahr has to be aware that there is a problem.

[gb6491]

"said my front frame rails were .050" too short." WTF!? unbelievable! the machine that cuts these "rails" out of stock wasn't set up right, the rails went to the polymer company and nobody noticed, the completed frame came back to Kahr and nobody noticed? this ain't kimchi, it's a damn gun!
if you pull the slide off the gun, line up the slide next to the frame so that the rear of the 2 pieces are where they should be and look, those rails should engage the groves in the slide by at least a 1/16th". (eyeball, not science).
the people with problems have exchanged serial numbers to see if it was the same production run?
Kahr has to be aware that there is a problem.
My original serial number gun was over 4 years old (SN: SD39XX).
I checked a new CW45 at a local shop and it has the issue. I didn't think to check the serial number at the time. FWIW, the serial on my new frame starts with "SG".
I posted a video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbM9ADBIQcc) earlier to describe the issue, but I've found it's much easier to check for the issue by pinching the slide and dust cover together. Then while holding them together, see if you can move the slide rearward. I couldn't do so on my older serial number CW45 or the one I checked in the store. Post repair: I can easily move the slide with no hint of it stopping or even catching on anything.
http://i59.tinypic.com/33ww5z4.jpg
Checks good
http://i60.tinypic.com/2qbrf2a.jpg
Regards,
Greg

[adooley]

Interesting. The CW serial number I just sent back started with SG.

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[AFDoc]

Mine started with SF. Kahr is replacing frame. I wonder if its an issue of setback in the frame rather than the rails actually too short. There may be a good reason why the rail would only engage the slide 1/16" but it seems to me they would shoot for 1/8' or 3/16" to allow for manufacturing variations.

[adooley]

Maybe that explains the lack of a recall so far. If you cannot pin it to a specific set of serials, you're faced with recalling everything.

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[marcinstl]

ah bs! my serial number is SF6090 and it won't pass Greg's "squeeze test". I'm calling Kahrs in the morning. see if I can get a mailer label. also see if I can just return the frame only.

[Bawanna]

Won't save anything. The frame is the serialized part so it ships like a complete gun. Better to send the whole thing so they can make sure everything fits and works properly. It should without problem but better to send the package.

I sent you a PM a few weeks ago, you apparently didn't see it?

[gb6491]

I just read that AFDoc has his CW45 back (with a new frame):
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=23886
Regards,
Greg

[marcinstl]

sorry, I missed your message. I just changed some options so that I get an email when there's a pm. yes, totally agree with you.

[Kansas53]

I've been member of this forum as having owned/own a number of Kahr pistols for a number a years and find the info (plus the sage contributors and other members) extremely valuable. A case in point is this thread. I recently purchased a CW45 (hadn't shot it yet) and had no idea this problem existed. I was, what you call, a happy Kahr camper. Anyway, I emailed the service dept. and got a reply within 2 days (I know - wow!!). Was sent a return tag and mailed it off May 30th. It was at my dealer (FFL required because of new frame) last Friday, June 6th. Doesnt' get any better than that. KUDOs Kahr, your CS is top notch as far as I'm concerned.

The pistol had a SN# SG09xx, now sports a new #SG42xx, and according to the invoice, they did the following: (besides the frame, all parts in the frame appear to be new as well) replaced cocking cam, striker block, extractor, barrel, recoil spring and slide stop spring, Test fired (25 rounds), tested good. Cleaned and lubed.

Thanks again Forum GURUs and Kahr CS, class acts!!!! :D :Amflag2:

[marcinstl]

I'd like to apologize for some of my recent (tantrum) posts in this thread. sorry.
here's a short video, a day in the life of revolver god. if it's mechanical, it can break.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxDBZMYJmIU
once again, sorry for sounding upset, rude.

[tony k]

My old frame was SG14XX. Should have the New one by next week.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

[adooley]

Looks like you can add me to the list of people getting a new frame. Kahr just called asking for my FFL.

From time shipped to time the call was received was 10 days. They will ship within 48 hours, so if they use the next day service that the prepaid label I received was, the total turn around will have been two weeks.

Even considering that it is disappointing to have to send it off in the first place, they are making it right with a quick turn around. Not bad.

[Bawanna]

Not bad at all!

[Southerngunner]

My original serial number gun was over 4 years old (SN: SD39XX).
I checked a new CW45 at a local shop and it has the issue. I didn't think to check the serial number at the time. FWIW, the serial on my new frame starts with "SG".
I posted a video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbM9ADBIQcc) earlier to describe the issue, but I've found it's much easier to check for the issue by pinching the slide and dust cover together. Then while holding them together, see if you can move the slide rearward. I couldn't do so on my older serial number CW45 or the one I checked in the store. Post repair: I can easily move the slide with no hint of it stopping or even catching on anything.
http://i59.tinypic.com/33ww5z4.jpg
Checks good
http://i60.tinypic.com/2qbrf2a.jpg
Regards,
Greg

Thanks for the tutorial Greg, the serial # on my cw45 is SG12XX and it doesn't pass this test. I called Kahr this morning and as soon as I get the shipping label it will be going back. I really like the pistol and I am not having any other issues but knowing the frame and slide are out of spec makes me have reservations about daily carry. At first they said I would have to pay the shipping but I told them about the issues other members on this forum has had and then he said they would send me label as a one time courtesy:cool: .I will update when it gets resolved.

[gb6491]

Thanks for the tutorial Greg, the serial # on my cw45 is SG12XX and it doesn't pass this test. I called Kahr this morning and as soon as I get the shipping label it will be going back. I really like the pistol and I am not having any other issues but knowing the frame and slide are out of spec makes me have reservations about daily carry. At first they said I would have to pay the shipping but I told them about the issues other members on this forum has had and then he said they would send me label as a one time courtesy:cool:. I will update when it gets resolved.
Sorry to read that yours needs to go back.
On a positive note, it seems that the ones coming back are performing well:)

I had some reservations about mine prior to receiving it back.
For one, my XD-S filled in admirably during the CW45's absence.
Then, my "Old" CW45, even with the "short rails", had been reliable (after some initial problems) and accurate. I was concerned if that would be the case with the post repair gun.
To their credit, Kahr returned my CW45 (as per request) with all the parts that it went in with (sans the frame).
Reliability "post repair": I've not had a single issue (admittedly, round count is low at the moment, but so far outstanding).:)
In the accuracy department, if I do my part, the CW45 will do it's (shooting to right above the front sights at 10 yards, which I like).:):)
Here are the first two rounds I put through it with the new frame:
http://i60.tinypic.com/35m3blx.jpg
That's at ten yards standing; unfortunately, I can't say the rest of that session went as well, but that was on me not the pistol:o
I'm back to carrying the CW45.:)
Regards,
Greg

[tony k]

Looks like you can add me to the list of people getting a new frame. Kahr just called asking for my FFL.

From time shipped to time the call was received was 10 days. They will ship within 48 hours, so if they use the next day service that the prepaid label I received was, the total turn around will have been two weeks.

Even considering that it is disappointing to have to send it off in the first place, they are making it right with a quick turn around. Not bad.

My turn around time has not been as good. They got it on March 24th. I should have it back late this week or early next week. That's 11 weeks. Then again, I might have been one of the first to send a gun in for this issue, and I also asked them to look in to a couple other issues (high primer strikes, light primer strikes, and a few other issues I can't remember because it's been so long).

I think they owe me a t-shirt for being so patient:D

[Southerngunner]

Sorry to read that yours needs to go back.
On a positive note, it seems that the ones coming back are performing well:)

I had some reservations about mine prior to receiving it back.
For one, my XD-S filled in admirably during the CW45's absence.
Then, my "Old" CW45, even with the "short rails", had been reliable (after some initial problems) and accurate. I was concerned if that would be the case with the post repair gun.
To their credit, Kahr returned my CW45 (as per request) with all the parts that it went in with (sans the frame).
Reliability "post repair": I've not had a single issue (admittedly, round count is low at the moment, but so far outstanding).:)
In the accuracy department, if I do my part, the CW45 will do it's (shooting to right above the front sights at 10 yards, which I like).:):)
Here are the first two rounds I put through it with the new frame:
http://i60.tinypic.com/35m3blx.jpg
That's at ten yards standing; unfortunately, I can't say the rest of that session went as well, but that was on me not the pistol:o
I'm back to carrying the CW45.:)
Regards,
Greg

Thanks Greg, Good shooting, and my short rail CW45 had no other issues and had broken in nicely but once I realized that pressure on the dust cover would impare slide movement that bothered me enough to send it back. My Kimber tactical ultra is once again on my hip until my Kahr gets back. I didn't request the old parts be returned with a new frame which may be an oversight on my part, hopefully I will get a good one back because other than the short rails it was a great gun.
The up side to this is its way too hot here for desert plinking right now and thats where I go shooting. It was still 106 degrees at 10:30 p.m.:eek: tuesday night.
There is always good useable info and great pics in your post's and youre a valuable asset to the forum Thanks again.
Terry

[Bawanna]

106 Degrees at 10 at night!:eek:

Sweet Mary and Joseph, that's bloody hot mate.

[Southerngunner]

106 Degrees at 10 at night!:eek:

Sweet Mary and Joseph, that's bloody hot mate.

True story Boss.:D It was 112 that day and at 6:00 am the following day it was still 95. I actually can tolerate the heat better than cold.
I figured in case I end up going to Hell someday I should go to bootcamp first;)

[Southerngunner]

http://stupidfunnypics.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/dry-heat.jpg

[Bawanna]

Must be plumb warm down in GB's part of AZ then to I reckon.

I used to handle the heat way better than I do now. Used to handle the cold and snow better than I do now too.

There's a pattern here I should probably try and get a grasp on first chance I get, maybe right after my nap.

[gb6491]

Must be plumb warm down in GB's part of AZ then to I reckon.....
http://i62.tinypic.com/28i42rp.jpg
:D

[tony k]

GOT MY GUN BACK YESTERDAY! havent shot it yet. Frame rails extend almost to the end of the polymer frame. much easier to rack the slide (no binding or catching). There's no up and down play in the slide, but I'd venture to guess that some will develop after i break in the new rails. Not sure if that's relevant anymore, but it was part of the original post.

Old serial number was SG14XX. New serial number is SG42XX

Gonna put 100 rounds though it on saturday. will post results

[gb6491]

GOT MY GUN BACK YESTERDAY! havent shot it yet. Frame rails extend almost to the end of the polymer frame. much easier to rack the slide (no binding or catching). There's no up and down play in the slide, but I'd venture to guess that some will develop after i break in the new rails. Not sure if that's relevant anymore, but it was part of the original post.

Old serial number was SG14XX. New serial number is SG42XX

Gonna put 100 rounds though it on saturday. will post results
That's excellent news sir! :)
I look forward to reading of how the shooting session goes.
Regards,
Greg

[Southerngunner]

http://i62.tinypic.com/28i42rp.jpg
:D

Hey Brother, You left off one more dot off on the sun side of Yuma. Lake Havasu:D

[Buzzard45]

It appears that another cw45 has to head back to kahr for a new frame.
Mine is showing the same malfunction as AFDoc`s slide stop pin being able to slip out from under the slide without lining up the marks.
This is apparently due to the metal rails in the frame not engaging the slide at lockup.
This was shown by GB6491 that when holding the slide down snug to the frame it becomes difficult if not impossible to push the slide back.
Upon removing the slide I found the metal rails have been damaged by the slide hitting the end of the rails, on mine I see damage to the under side of the rails, both left and right.
Not to worry though, I`ll just carry the pm45 or the p45 with ctl.
Now if I can save enough $$ for a Thompson I`d be one happy camper!
Will be sending e-mail to kahr shortly.
10555

10556

[tony k]

put 125 rounds through my CW45 with the new frame. First 75 or so worked flawlessly. The new polymer frame is dragging a bit on the slide, which was putting black flecks of plastic all over. Also, the ammo was dirty, and I started to get failures to go in to battery because of excessive residue. Between the plastic and the residue, it was nasty. I bet If i would have stopped and cleaned it up a bit and lubed it the failures would have gone away. Other than that it worked better than it did before. I'm cautiously satisfied. It should work even better once the slide wears down the high spots in the plastic frame. The drag from the metal on plastic was noticeable, and probably contributed to the failures later in the shooting session.

I guess I'll just "shoot the fokker like I stole it," as someone on this forum likes to say.

[marcinstl]

go back to about page 5 of this thread and look at the "Greg test". my CW45 failed that. I wanted to see what happened when a few others sent their guns back to Worcester(pronounced Wuustah). anyway, I took the gun out to UPS and for $78 got it on a plane, supposed to be there by 10am. tomorrow. hope it passes the test when it comes back.

[gb6491]

put 125 rounds through my CW45 with the new frame. First 75 or so worked flawlessly. The new polymer frame is dragging a bit on the slide, which was putting black flecks of plastic all over. Also, the ammo was dirty, and I started to get failures to go in to battery because of excessive residue. Between the plastic and the residue, it was nasty. I bet If i would have stopped and cleaned it up a bit and lubed it the failures would have gone away. Other than that it worked better than it did before. I'm cautiously satisfied. It should work even better once the slide wears down the high spots in the plastic frame. The drag from the metal on plastic was noticeable, and probably contributed to the failures later in the shooting session.

I guess I'll just "shoot the fokker like I stole it," as someone on this forum likes to say.
tony k,
Thanks for the update:)

While I think you'll be proved correct that "It should work even better once the slide wears down the high spots in the plastic frame", I would ask if
you have checked the slide for burrs (especially around the slide stop, take down, and disconnector cut outs)?

Regards,
Greg

[gb6491]

go back to about page 5 of this thread and look at the "Greg test". my CW45 failed that. I wanted to see what happened when a few others sent their guns back to Worcester(pronounced Wuustah). anyway, I took the gun out to UPS and for $78 got it on a plane, supposed to be there by 10am. tomorrow. hope it passes the test when it comes back.
Sorry to hear about the shipping fees. I take it Kahr CS didn't want to do a return tag?
Regards,
Greg

[marcinstl]

response to email about shipping--
"Hello, No, I am sorry, we do not reimburse for shipping. Thanks, Kahr Arms/Auto Ordnance"
(suspect they think/hope most people would just take it to the local pawn shop and dump it). I did the UPS tracking and it's there. I'll let you know how it works when it comes back.

[Buzzard45]

dropped off the cw45 yesterday at lgs to send back to kahr.
Sigh...The wait begins.:(

[Southerngunner]

I shipped mine back 6-14-2014 and got an e-mail from Kahr service this morning wanting dealer info to send my replacement to:cool:. I will update when it gets here, so far I'm happy with turnaround time.:D

[adooley]

Just got back from a week in San Jose (business) and got a call that my CW45 was ready to be picked up at my FFL. It was hard coming back to rain and flooding but it was a bright spot to the day.

In the box was a slip with that said:

Problem Reported:
PLEASE INSPECT SLIDE TO FRAME FIT. K625

Action Taken:
REPLACED FRAME, NEW S/N:SGXXXX. REPLACED COCKING CAM. REWORKED SLIDE. TEST FIRED (25 ROUNDS), TESTED GOOD. CLEANED AND LUBED.

Sure enough, the previous frame was stamped 'B' as it was purchased as a blemished pistol. They replaced it with a brand new non-blemished frame. Everything was clean and it wasn't dry as I've seen others report.

All in all kudos to Kahr for making my situation right and to DK Mags in New Brighton, MN for taking care of the transfer. Now I've got to find a time to go out and feed her some ammo and see how she purrs.

[marcinstl]

Shipping----
ya learn something new everyday.....
an FFL dealer can ship a gun via the USPS(the US post office) for the weight of the package, etc.
a private citizen can ship a gun via UPS (next day air) and (AND!) can also ship via FedEx(next day, 2 day, ground, whatever). FedEx would have been about half of what I spent at UPS.
(if your FFL isn't going to squawk to much or punish you with big fees, let the FFL do the work.)

[tony k]

tony k,
Thanks for the update:)

While I think you'll be proved correct that "It should work even better once the slide wears down the high spots in the plastic frame", I would ask if
you have checked the slide for burrs (especially around the slide stop, take down, and disconnector cut outs)?

Regards,
Greg

yep. there are burrs in all the places you mentioned. I'm just gonna shoot it untill those burrs are gone. I put another 75 rounds through it yesterday. Shot flawlessly with hornady xtp bullets loaded to 1.225 , but had a couple nose dive jams with the seven round mags and xtreme rn bullets that were loaded to 1.260.

I'm gonna put a couple boxes of hornady SD ammo through it with the six round magazine. If it functions flawlessly, it will probably be my edc.

[b4uqzme]

I think you might have missed Greg's point Tony. Burrs on the metal slide are going to continue to damage the plastic frame. You should file or sand those down.

Good luck.

[Buzzard45]

Just got off the phone with kahr, "the frame rails were about .05 too short", should be shipping tomorrow to lgs. with a new frame/sn.,should be in my grubby little hands in a few days. two week turn around, not bad at all!:cool:

[tony k]

I think you might have missed Greg's point Tony. Burrs on the metal slide are going to continue to damage the plastic frame. You should file or sand those down.

Good luck.

Oh...yes...the burrs are on the polymer frame, not the slide. I guess i need to work on my reading compresion skills:o. I checked the slide. No burrs on it.

The burrs on the frame have worn away over the past few weeks. It is now shooting really well.


Buzzard45

cw45
Just got off the phone with kahr, "the frame rails were about .05 too short", should be shipping tomorrow to lgs. with a new frame/sn.,should be in my grubby little hands in a few days. two week turn around, not bad at all!:cool:


.050" too short. that's exactly what they told me. good luck Buzzard

[Buzzard45]

Just got back from lgs, the cw45 is back with new frame & sn. If i had still been at home on the 3rd i could have picked it up then, but i was working on my sister-in-law`s cabin up north. Most surprising thing is, it didn`t cost me anything, shipping both ways, and even the nics check was graciously given by the lgs!!!!!!!:biggrin1:
couple of pics for proof:cool:
1131011311
The rails aint too short no more:biggrin1:
Need to clean and lube, then shoot like i stole it,repeat many times:amflag:

[2tango2]

I'm going to check my CT45 when I get home today. I've put 300 rounds through it and the slide to frame fit feels noticeably sloppier than the beginning of the session .

My CW9 feels a lot tighter

[marcinstl]

from the last email from Kahr--- "WE HAVE SWAPPED YOUR FRAME ON YOUR CW4543 DUE TO A MANUFACTURER DEFECT. THE FIREARM HAS BEEN REBUILT AND TEST FIRED.."
so I picked up the gun from the FFL today and had to do the paper work again (new frame, new serial number). (thanks to Greg and Tim at Trail Creek Trade Co. for not charging me $35 for the paperwork, etc.)
so. there ya have it, MANUFACTURER DEFECT. no recall, no reimbursement for shipping. the new frame has longer front rails that engage the slide, so it's fixed. would have been nice if they would have paid the freight an tossed in a free magazine for doing their damn R&D.
moral of the story-- buy a Glock thru Davidson's. if there's a problem it goes back to Davidson's and you get a new gun, no dicking around with the factory.

[Photoman]

moral of the story-- buy a Glock thru Davidson's. if there's a problem it goes back to Davidson's and you get a new gun, no dicking around with the factory.


When Glock makes a true single stack .45 worth owning, I'll buy one!

[Bawanna]

I assume you asked and were denied having your shipping cost reimbursed?

[shlike]

from the last email from Kahr--- "WE HAVE SWAPPED YOUR FRAME ON YOUR CW4543 DUE TO A MANUFACTURER DEFECT. THE FIREARM HAS BEEN REBUILT AND TEST FIRED.."
so I picked up the gun from the FFL today and had to do the paper work again (new frame, new serial number). (thanks to Greg and Tim at Trail Creek Trade Co. for not charging me $35 for the paperwork, etc.)
so. there ya have it, MANUFACTURER DEFECT. no recall, no reimbursement for shipping. the new frame has longer front rails that engage the slide, so it's fixed. would have been nice if they would have paid the freight an tossed in a free magazine for doing their damn R&D.
moral of the story-- buy a Glock thru Davidson's. if there's a problem it goes back to Davidson's and you get a new gun, no dicking around with the factory.

I called Kahr today to arrange to return my recently-purchased CW45 for this same defect. They gave me a RA# and said they would be sending me a prepaid shipping label. An hour later I had the prepaid shipping label. I didn't even have to ask for it. The only expense I may incur is if my FFL charges me to do the transfer because of the new frame & serial number. I have a CPL, so in Michigan that makes transfers very easy and quick so maybe he won't even charge me. Either way, I'm happy so far.

[marcinstl]

I'm glad your happy and somehow got treated right. maybe there's enough 45's coming back that somebody at Kahr finally woke up? when Springfield had a recall on the XDs, they paid the freight and gave back the fixed gun and free magazine, that's acting like a company that wants continuing customer business.
I was half way joking about getting a Glock, could have said any gun company. Davidson's, I wasn't kidding about, read the Davidson's Guarantee. any FFL can mail a gun with USPS for cheap. so the broken gun goes to the post office and back to Davidson's, you get a replacement.
I can shoot a Kahr, but never been a fan of the trigger, this experience has lost them any repeat business from me.
(next time I want a .45 it's going to be steel, with a hammer and an on/off switch. hehehehe. )

[marcinstl]

went to the range today and put 50 rounds thru it. no debris from the new frame. front rails are long enough to engage the slots in the bottom of the slide, so it passes the "Greg test".
now all I have to do is go back to the kahrtalk forsale section, reword my advertisement and get this thing sold. so far the CW9 has been working out as a carry gun, so I really don't need a carry .45. I definitely need another range gun.
the MANUFACTURER DEFECT was on serial number SF60..... , the new number is SG36.... wonder how many bad ones are out there floating around?

[2tango2]

Exactly how could you tell there was an issue again?

For a range gun look at the CT45 if you'd like a 45 range gun....I gotta say wow.....I picked one up a week ago and it has made it go the always bring to range list


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Buzzard45]

Exactly how could you tell there was an issue again?

For a range gun look at the CT45 if you'd like a 45 range gun....I gotta say wow.....I picked one up a week ago and it has made it go the always bring to range list


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Go back to page 5, #45 for the "greg test". If you think there`s excess play, hold you`re gun at the muzzle (empty of course), lift the slide up from the frame, does it move much? if so, do the test; squeeze down on the slide and push back, if it resists then there is probably a problem.
I`m sure this test will work on all Kahr polys
My cw45 just came back from Kahr with a new frame sn. sg36** old frame sf26**. 150 rounds yesterday = perfect.
As for a preferred range gun in 45, i like my remington r1 enhanced, but thats another thread.

[marcinstl]

back up in this thread to about page 5, read the posts, look at the pictures.
this thread was started for CW45 owners, don't remember any pm/cm, ct owners saying they had a similar problem.
if your range rents guns, try any flavor of 1911. after you put the safety on "fire", notice the trigger travel and crisp break.

[GLOCKROCKER]

Looks like another CW45 will be making a trip back to the factory. I read part of this thread a while back but never checked my CW45 as I've had zero problems and thought surely mine was OK. Got to reading the thread again this morning and decided to check it out. Sure enough it wouldn't pass the "Greg test" and upon further examination I found that " like a few other things I have" my frame rails are a RCH TOO SHORT! My serial # is SE30**. I will be contacting Kahr on Monday. Do you get better results by phone or E-mail?

[2tango2]

I just looked at a CW45 that my LGS just got in. The serial numbers start with SF. It looks ok and felt ok....based on the one returned above that had SF could it be that there was a bad run that contains SF?

[2tango2]

Ok I just looked at Greg test doing the pinch test. I'll try it right now on a brand new CW45 with SF for the serial #

[2tango2]

Tried 2 with SF numbers. Both failed the test. I was gonna buy one if they passed. CW9 on shelf did pass test

[shlike]

Looks like another CW45 will be making a trip back to the factory. I read part of this thread a while back but never checked my CW45 as I've had zero problems and thought surely mine was OK. Got to reading the thread again this morning and decided to check it out. Sure enough it wouldn't pass the "Greg test" and upon further examination I found that " like a few other things I have" my frame rails are a RCH TOO SHORT! My serial # is SE30**. I will be contacting Kahr on Monday. Do you get better results by phone or E-mail?

My new CW45 also ran perfectly, but when I saw this thread and checked, mine did not pass the Greg test as well. Had I not seen this thread, I never would have known about the problem as I don't pinch the slide and frame together on my guns as a matter of course. I believe my frame rails are about 1.5 RCH's too short.. I had good results calling Kahr. Mine is on it's way back now to Kahr.

[marcinstl]

As for a preferred range gun in 45, i like my remington r1 enhanced, but thats another thread.[/QUOTE]

https://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx?item=96364
as long as I'm spending the big bucks, might as well go for the 9mm. I shoot 9mm better than .45acp.
so you think the R1 is quality made and reliable? this price point is really pushing my limit, might be the last gun she let's me buy.
(geographically I'm in between Ed Brown and Wilson, price wise they just as well be on mars.)

[gb6491]

As for a preferred range gun in 45, i like my remington r1 enhanced, but thats another thread.

https://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx?item=96364
as long as I'm spending the big bucks, might as well go for the 9mm. I shoot 9mm better than .45acp.
so you think the R1 is quality made and reliable? this price point is really pushing my limit, might be the last gun she let's me buy.
(geographically I'm in between Ed Brown and Wilson, price wise they just as well be on mars.)
Not to speak for Buzzard45, but I've a Remington R1S (in .45ACP) and it's a favorite among the 1911s I own. I find it well made, reliable, and accurate.

I also own a Rock Island Armory 1911 in 9mm (they call it a "Tactical" model). It's an excellent gun and easily recommendable, especially at it's price point: Sub $500 at Davidson (https://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/Default.aspx?item=51632&mfg=Rock+Island+Armory&mdlno=Rock+Island+Armory+M1911-A1+FS+Tactical)'s (sub $450 at Bud's)... the "GI" version will run $50-$75 less.

Speaking of price points and "range/target" guns, for about what that linked Remington is going for you can get a 9mm Springfield Armory Range Officer with gear package. They put a little more effort into the fit of the RO pistols and it shows on the range, plus it has adjustable sights. https://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/Default.aspx?item=PI9129LP&mfg=Springfield+Armory&mdlno=Range+Officer+W%2f+Gear+Package

If you can find one, the STI Spartan is another recommended 9mm 1911 with adjustable sights. It's basically an Armscor (same folks that make RIA pistols) frame and slide that's built with some STI internals and to their spec. They'll run you about (or a little less) what the Range Officer would.

Kimber also has their Stainless Target II in 9mm. Nice pistol but will run you more (new) than the above pistols would.

If you decide to go with a single stack, 9mm 1911, pick yourself up some of the excellent Metalform 9FR-794 magazines (IMO a must have for 9mm 1911). SA has their version of it as well: http://store.springfield-armory.com/shop/pc/9MM-9-ROUND-MAGAZINE-STAINLESS-STEEL-52p130.htm#.U8HgDUAdiac

I'm satisfied with my Rock Island 9mm 1911, otherwise I'd go with an RO...especially as a "range/target" gun.

Regards,
Greg

[Buzzard45]

Completely agree Greg, any of these would be a good choice. I actually went looking for an ria, but the r1 enhanced just sang to me (take me home now):cool:. And the beauty of the 1911 platform is the endless upgrades. You can buy the cheaper model now, and in a few weeks/months say: Honey, this ______ 1911 i got is really sweet, but i think it would be even better with ______ and it`s only $____. Before you know it, you`ll have a box full of parts and a $1000 gun.:p

[GLOCKROCKER]

My new CW45 also ran perfectly, but when I saw this thread and checked, mine did not pass the Greg test as well. Had I not seen this thread, I never would have known about the problem as I don't pinch the slide and frame together on my guns as a matter of course. I believe my frame rails are about 1.5 RCH's too short.. I had good results calling Kahr. Mine is on it's way back now to Kahr.

shlike did they send you a prepaid shipping label? I called Kahr this morning and they refused to send me a shipping label and said I would need to have a dealer send it in. I understand that if the frame is replaced they will need to send it back to a dealer, but it would be a lot more convenient if I could send it to them myself. Now I have to make time to take it to a dealer and hope they won't charge me extra for shipping. This is my first time dealing with Kahr's CS and I'm not impressed.

[marcinstl]

read back thru this thread and you'll see my sad story of being mugged at UPS(dist. office only, no franchise stores) for $78 shipping. get a price from FedEx. an FFL can ship via USPS and that's the cheapest. might as well let your favorite FFL handle it both ways. and yes, with the new frame/serial number is more paperwork. the only thing I got from Kahr was a confirmation number for shipping, no label. good luck.

[marcinstl]

hijacked thread continues, hehehehehe. over the weekend I'm looking at 1911's and come to find out you can get a kit, or the parts to make a kit. I started at Brownell's, went to Caspian, then on to Fusion. wow, what a DIY project. at this point this is totally a daydream.
has anybody kept count of how many CW45's have gone back for a new frame?

[shlike]

shlike did they send you a prepaid shipping label? I called Kahr this morning and they refused to send me a shipping label and said I would need to have a dealer send it in. I understand that if the frame is replaced they will need to send it back to a dealer, but it would be a lot more convenient if I could send it to them myself. Now I have to make time to take it to a dealer and hope they won't charge me extra for shipping. This is my first time dealing with Kahr's CS and I'm not impressed.

Yes they did send me a prepaid FedEx label. They offered it, I didn't even have to ask. An hour after I talked to Kahr I had an e-mail with the label. I printed it off, packed up the gun, slapped the label on it and took it to a local FedEx store (the old Kinko's), and handed it to the girl behind the counter. She took it no questions asked.

[Buzzard45]

hijacked thread continues, hehehehehe. over the weekend I'm looking at 1911's and come to find out you can get a kit, or the parts to make a kit. I started at Brownell's, went to Caspian, then on to Fusion. wow, what a DIY project. at this point this is totally a daydream.
has anybody kept count of how many CW45's have gone back for a new frame?

In this thread alone i see 12 members, with 1 question mark: RRP: do you have one? did it pass the "Greg test"? Also a question for 2Tango2: does you`re ct45 pass the "Greg test"? I see serial nos. sd, se, sf, and sg
Highjacking threads can be fun, a lot safer than say highjacking a car or something eh?:ohmy:

[2tango2]

In this thread alone i see 12 members, with 1 question mark: RRP: do you have one? did it pass the "Greg test"? Also a question for 2Tango2: does you`re ct45 pass the "Greg test"? I see serial nos. sd, se, sf, and sg
Highjacking threads can be fun, a lot safer than say highjacking a car or something eh?:ohmy:
My CT45 does pass the Greg test.

[marcinstl]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YZ3j_Rf1DI go to about 9 min. and watch the slide come off of a Kel-tec PF9. at least the Kahr is a cut above this. loose slide but none that locked up off of the rails. I can see why some like their war tested, all metal guns.

[shlike]

I called Kahr today to arrange to return my recently-purchased CW45 for this same defect. They gave me a RA# and said they would be sending me a prepaid shipping label. An hour later I had the prepaid shipping label. I didn't even have to ask for it. The only expense I may incur is if my FFL charges me to do the transfer because of the new frame & serial number. I have a CPL, so in Michigan that makes transfers very easy and quick so maybe he won't even charge me. Either way, I'm happy so far.

An update. I received a call today from Kahr Customer Service (Gino, I think his name was) to tell me that my gun is ready and to get the name of my FFL so they could ship it back. He said they put a new frame on it because of the short rail issue. He also volunteered that they have changed the design of the gun because of these frame rail issues. I asked if they function-tested my gun; he told me they ran 25 rounds through it (combination of ball and HP) and using my magazine that I had sent with the gun. They have only had the gun since last Tuesday, so a 1-week turnaround is pretty darn good, IMHO.

I am completely happy with Kahr's service in this case. I have 2 other Kahrs (CW380 and CW9) which have both functioned flawlessly since I took them out of the box. I had purchased the CW45 from G-A-G at the $289.00 special price. Add $5.95 shipping and a $20.00 transfer fee from my FFL, so I am all in at only $315.00! Even if I have to pay another transfer fee from my FFL to register the new frame, that still puts me at only $335.00 total. I can't think of another quality single-stack compact .45 for anywhere close to that price! So unless something drastic happens, or if my CW45 doesn't work right when I get it back, I'm a "Kahr Guy" for sure!

[Grizwold]

my cw45 also had the same problem. (Ser. No. SF****) They would not give me a prepaid label--cost $80 and change to ship next day air FedEx. This is my first firearm, have learned a lot, but still have a ways to go with the ins and outs of ownership, etc. When I saw that some others had gotten prepaid labels, I called them back and was told that they could not refund the shipping cost. I think I should have insisted on a label in the first place, but that is water under the bridge. They did give me another magazine, and polished the barrel, trigger, slide release, etc. and the shop I had it returned to discounted the transfer fee for me when I mentioned the expense. It still seems to me that a manufacturing defect should be covered in entirety, including any shipping charges incurred. Other than that I must say that I am well pleased with the pistol--only two or three issues during breakin and none since. I have nothing to compare it to, but it is a sweet shooting gun.

[2tango2]

my cw45 also had the same problem. (Ser. No. SF****) They would not give me a prepaid label--cost $80 and change to ship next day air FedEx. This is my first firearm, have learned a lot, but still have a ways to go with the ins and outs of ownership, etc. When I saw that some others had gotten prepaid labels, I called them back and was told that they could not refund the shipping cost. I think I should have insisted on a label in the first place, but that is water under the bridge. They did give me another magazine, and polished the barrel, trigger, slide release, etc. and the shop I had it returned to discounted the transfer fee for me when I mentioned the expense. It still seems to me that a manufacturing defect should be covered in entirety, including any shipping charges incurred. Other than that I must say that I am well pleased with the pistol--only two or three issues during breakin and none since. I have nothing to compare it to, but it is a sweet shooting gun.
Holy cow. ....so 80 dollars it cost you to send back a product that Kahr acknowledges is a defect......so much for savings buying a CW45......

There should be zero question by Kahr in issuing return labels to CW45 owners.....

As much as I really like my Kahrs I'm not sure if I'd purchase another ( I do have a CT9 on the way) after this one.

In fact Kahr should probably issue a voluntary recall for CW45s that are affected

[marcinstl]

".... Kahr should probably issue a voluntary recall for CW45s that are affected."
please contact kahr support and run these thoughts by them. if your like me, you won't get a response.
(in a post to this thread, I suggested buying guns thru Davidson's gun genie. there's a full return warranty, and the gun genie shows the FFL dealers in your area and the price for the gun. deal with an FFL you like and respect, even if they're not the cheapest. so that's 2 layers of protection for the gun buyer, while we're out here doing R&D for these alleged gun makers. good luck.)

[shlike]

".... Kahr should probably issue a voluntary recall for CW45s that are affected."
please contact kahr support and run these thoughts by them. if your like me, you won't get a response.
(in a post to this thread, I suggested buying guns thru Davidson's gun genie. there's a full return warranty, and the gun genie shows the FFL dealers in your area and the price for the gun. deal with an FFL you like and respect, even if they're not the cheapest. so that's 2 layers of protection for the gun buyer, while we're out here doing R&D for these alleged gun makers. good luck.)

Even though my own experience with the "short rails" issue was painless and positive (Kahr sending me a prepaid label, turning the repair around in only a week, etc.) I can't help but wonder if possibly Kahr knew of this chronic problem with the CW45 and elected to sell them into them market anyway by giving the big wholesalers and distributors (like G-A-G and Davidson's) special low pricing, and then deal with the problems on an individual basis when people like us complained about the problem. That might explain why G-A-G was selling them so cheap, I'm not one for conspiracy theories, so I'm just putting it out there for consideration.

That being said, I'm still a "Kahr Guy", owning 3 now and will probably buy more. I really like the guns.

[marcinstl]

I bought the CW45 as my first carry gun, based on size/weight and price point. then I got a CW9, which was even better. carry the CW9 everywhere. the downside is the crap service and more important, I've never been a Kahr trigger fan. on a 6 bullseye target I can shoot "combat accurate" (with a few flyers from flinching), with the CW9 on the left 3. on the right 3 bullseyes, using a Glock 19 or 26, it's a different and better story. I shoot the Glock trigger way better. anyway, what this comes down to for me is like the story of eating at the restaurant and getting the runs, not going back there again, huh? Kahr lost me as a customer.

[2tango2]

Fwiw I saw that a LGS had gotten in some CM45s. I tried the Greg Test and it did not do well. Binded up when pressing down and back

Maybe the dual spring adds more pressure and that was the issue

[marcinstl]

bring this to the attention of the LGS salesman and have him remove the slide, line up the slide and frame side by side and see if the front rails are long enough to engage the slots in the front of the slide. on some of the CW45's there was a defect and the rails were to short. Kahr doesn't seem to be interested in getting on top of this. LGS might save themselves some problems by getting out in front. all about customer satisfaction.

[Southerngunner]

bring this to the attention of the LGS salesman and have him remove the slide, line up the slide and frame side by side and see if the front rails are long enough to engage the slots in the front of the slide. on some of the CW45's there was a defect and the rails were to short. Kahr doesn't seem to be interested in getting on top of this. LGS might save themselves some problems by getting out in front. all about customer satisfaction.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Kahr service. I will say when I contacted them about my CW45 they sent a shipping label and even though it took 3 weeks for the gun to come back the new frame was better and I will absolutly buy another Kahr, they treated me right and now I know to look over any polymer Kahrs that I intend to purchase.

[marcinstl]

so there's 2 levels of service support at Kahr, the level you got that understands doing (repeat) business and then the level that I got(care less)? that's certainly a helluva way to run a business.

[Dave800]

picked a new CW45
starts with SG

passes the greg test, hopefully they are past the rail issue

[actionexpress]

picked a new CW45
starts with SG

passes the greg test, hopefully they are past the rail issue

I was on the fence on buying a CW45 at Cabelas tonight (have a gift card on them for screwing up a gun library purchase I made) saw the CW45, felt great, but now I am anxious to go back, note the serial # and try to test for the short rails..

[marcinstl]

actionexpress,
your a perfect example of why Kahrtalk and gun forums in general are a good thing. it's community and we talk. glad you saw this thread and will make a better informed decision on a purchase. when I started this thread, I was just some guy who maybe or maybe not had a Kahr problem. I was hoping for a few replies and probably to get kidded about being a little OCD. then the forum magic kicked in an guys like Greg got into the conversation. 13 pages latter, here we are. I got my gun fixed, got to whine about paying the shipping, got to bad mouth Kahr's service. when you go back to Cabelas, check the serial number and do the "Greg test"--- explain all of this to the Cabelas salesman so he knows whats going on. good luck, good shooting.

[actionexpress]

actionexpress,
your a perfect example of why Kahrtalk and gun forums in general are a good thing. it's community and we talk. glad you saw this thread and will make a better informed decision on a purchase. when I started this thread, I was just some guy who maybe or maybe not had a Kahr problem. I was hoping for a few replies and probably to get kidded about being a little OCD. then the forum magic kicked in an guys like Greg got into the conversation. 13 pages latter, here we are. I got my gun fixed, got to whine about paying the shipping, got to bad mouth Kahr's service. when you go back to Cabelas, check the serial number and do the "Greg test"--- explain all of this to the Cabelas salesman so he knows whats going on. good luck, good shooting.

Well I bought it tonight, only had the display model left as the sales guy said they sold a number of them already. Serial is SG 30**. I pinched the slide/frame together, pulled back the slide as far as I could given the position of my hands, and I figured since it didn't bind up it was good. I compared the length of the frame rails to the used P45 in their case and they seemed to match. I pulled the slide up from the frame and could literally see that the rails were catching the slide. Not sure if anyone else has tried that but there wasn't any more/less play than any other polymer I've owned. One thing I really like about our local Cabelas as they don't mind one bit if you take a gun apart to inspect before buying. Pulled her apart, looked okay, didn't see anything out of the ordinary.

Can pick it up late Friday (48 hr wait here in WI) and hopefully take her out Saturday afternoon.

Will certainly post some feedback on it.

I field stripped the CW, noticed the thinness of the metal just above the channel for the guide rod, but it looked okay and certainly could be filed a bit if needed.

[marcinstl]

did it shoot? fun?