LASERS and training to focus on frt sight

[RainingAgain]

Wondering if I'm asking for trouble if I add a laser to one of many guns?

We train for years to focus on the front sight, however, seems to me we need to focus on the target when using the laser...how else to quickly acquire the red or green dot?

Thoughts?

[ripley16]

Why would adding another arrow to your quiver mean trouble? Having a laser does not mean you'll quit using the front sight. Having a laser does mean you'll be able to shoot a aimed shot if you're unable to use the front sight. A laser can also improve your field of vision while still having the ability to aim accurately. It's a useful tool, not a problem.

[muggsy]

The point of impact should coincide with your point of aim with either sight. In a SHTF situation your focus will in all probability be on the perp. That's why I learned to point shoot.

[johnh]

Ditto. I really don't find a laser helpful at all when point shooting. I don't even fall back on the front sight unless I am trying to shoot more precisely. With handguns I am center mass and fast. I do keep a green laser on my home defense carbine, but more for intimidation value. I might not want to shoot, but also convey to the intruder that he is at my mercy. Green ones are also very, very bright if you want to impair an intruder's vision.

[berettabone]

I had firearms with lasers.........................now I don't. Never really connected with them. Don't like batteries unless absolutely necessary. I agree with the other posters, not very helpful when point shooting. Would rather use the money for ammunition.

[happypuppy]

I don't really even focus on the front sight. It's just in my vision. I don't practice target shooting , just out bang bang and back.

Lasers are one of those one of those interesting toys to myself. I am old school KISS


Just ' bout the action Boss...

[Longitude Zero]

Front sight focus. I have used lasers but don't anymore. I just don't like them and think they are a gimmick for those too lazy to learn to use the sights properly. Many self defense shootings are such close range that it is point and shoot. Lasers are no help at point and shoot IMHO.

[ripley16]

Front sight focus. I have used lasers but don't anymore. I just don't like them and think they are a gimmick for those too lazy to learn to use the sights properly. Many self defense shootings are such close range that it is point and shoot. Lasers are no help at point and shoot IMHO.

Are they a "gimmick" if one is, for whatever reason, unable to even use the sights? Many self defense shooting are indeed at close range, but they are also often dynamic, stunningly violent and unexpected, bearing no resemblance to tradition shooting experiences, (such as a normal stance, draw, aim and shoot).

To paraphrase a great man; "There are the knowns, the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns." Lasers can be a valuable asset in several of those categories... IMHO

[Longitude Zero]

Are they a "gimmick" if one is, for whatever reason, unable to even use the sights? Many self defense shooting are indeed at close range, but they are also often dynamic, stunningly violent and unexpected, bearing no resemblance to tradition shooting experiences, (such as a normal stance, draw, aim and shoot).

To paraphrase a great man; "There are the knowns, the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns." Lasers can be a valuable asset in several of those categories... IMHO


Don't agree that lasers are the be all end all. I am aware of a great many firearms trainers that are well known names that do not advocate the laser. I consider their position superior. If you want to use a laser be my guest. I will not waste time or expense on them. Laser fans and I, along with many recognized experts will have to agree to disagree.

[Bill K]

I'm a believer in giving threat focused point shooting the most practice, then slide indexing, then sight shooting but still threat focused. This is for SD, target practice will sometimes focus on front sight (just to see if it'll tighten my groups) but even then will mostly focus on the target. My Marine Corps DI would have a fit. :)

[TheTman]

I think the great thing about lasers, is they allow you to remain behind cover, and just expose your gun and firing hand, and peer through a crack or hole and see if the dot is on the bad guy or not. That way you don't have to expose your whole head as you aim with the sights. Crimson Trace has a few videos showing how the laser can be used in ways like I described. They give some pretty good ideas on the advantages of having a laser on your weapon.

[ripley16]

Don't agree that lasers are the be all end all. I am aware of a great many firearms trainers that are well known names that do not advocate the laser. I consider their position superior. If you want to use a laser be my guest. I will not waste time or expense on them. Laser fans and I, along with many recognized experts will have to agree to disagree.

I didn't say anything close to "lasers are the be all end all", now did I? ;) A laser is another piece of the overall tool, just as a different or enhanced grip, night sights instead of standard, trigger job, or any other modification that makes your pistol more effective. I have a hard time figuring out why some people are so adamant about wanting a less effective tool. I guess our life experiences are just different.

[340pd]

As a trainer I think they are a great addition to any firearm.

1. Bad guys don't like red dots on their chests regardless of who is holding the gun on them. It may in fact, stop their aggression BEFORE you take decide to take more severe action.

2. As stated before, they allow me to shoot from any position, behind cover, day or night, with either hand, and have a pretty good idea as to where the bullet will wind up.

3. They are one of the best tools for teaching trigger control I have ever used, especially with double action revolvers. Five minutes a day will make you understand the concept of trigger control on any firearm.


Laser grips, $150-$250. Lawyer $500/hr. You choose.
My 2¢

[olympicmotorcars]

Just my experience with a laser ( ymmv ).

I had a crimson trace on my PM40 for about 6 months, practiced dry firing with it almost every night. One night I started practicing and noticed the laser was significantly off to the left according to the sight ( about 2 feet at 5yards ) . It had gotten knocked off somehow, I do not know how to this day, I never dropped my gun or handled it rough.

If that had been a life or death situation, which aim point would I have trusted, the laser or my sights ? Would it have taken a split second longer for me to make a decision ?
Would I have missed the bad guy altogether? Would that split second of indecision have been the difference in me surviving or not?

I took the laser off and it is sitting in a drawer right now.

Anybody want an almost like new Crimson Trace ? I will sell it at a great price.

PM me if interested.

[340pd]

Just my experience with a laser ( ymmv ).

I had a crimson trace on my PM40 for about 6 months, practiced dry firing with it almost every night. One night I started practicing and noticed the laser was significantly off to the left according to the sight ( about 2 feet at 5yards ) . It had gotten knocked off somehow, I do not know how to this day, I never dropped my gun or handled it rough.

If that had been a life or death situation, which aim point would I have trusted, the laser or my sights ? Would it have taken a split second longer for me to make a decision ?
Would I have missed the bad guy altogether? Would that split second of indecision have been the difference in me surviving or not?

I took the laser off and it is sitting in a drawer right now.

Anybody want an almost like new Crimson Trace ? I will sell it at a great price.

PM me if interested.

That is the point of training often with it. Most lasers are set up for about 30 feet. At 15 feet, I see a laser, as well as the sights on my gun, pretty much useless. If you need to fire at a threat at that short distance you will likely never see, or use, either of them.
I have CT grip lasers on all my snubbies and in 8-10 years, after countless student training sessions they have never varied more than a couple of inches from POI at 30', even after removal and battery change many times.
Your mileage did vary.

[TheTman]

It only takes a second to verify the laser is in line with your sights. If it is use it, if not, don't. My lasers once sighted in, have never moved, unless I actually move the laser housing during cleaning or something. The grip type lasers don't seem to have this problem, like the ones that hang under the barrel on the Kahrs.
I don't think of them as the be all to end all, but they are another tool available to give you an edge. As the Chief in Josie Wales said "You always look for an edge" or something to that effect. Plus they run on batteries, and when do batteries fail? When you really need them. That's why I try to change my laser batteries at same time we change the smoke detector batteries, when we change from Daylight Savings Time to Normal, I only do it in the fall, not in the spring, as they usually last well over a year for me.

[Longitude Zero]

I guess our life experiences are just different.


Yes they are. There is a documentable reason that the overwhelming majority of law enforcement units especially SWAT units DO NOT USE LASERS. To me a laser is a crutch and nothing more. It is totally silly to say a firearm is a less effective weapon without a laser.


As an LEO with over 30+ years having a "pretty good idea" where your shot will go is laughable. Try telling that in court and it will cost you a whole lot more than $500 Hrs. it could and probably should cost you some years as a ward of the state.

[muggsy]

I didn't say anything close to "lasers are the be all end all", now did I? ;) A laser is another piece of the overall tool, just as a different or enhanced grip, night sights instead of standard, trigger job, or any other modification that makes your pistol more effective. I have a hard time figuring out why some people are so adamant about wanting a less effective tool. I guess our life experiences are just different.

That's assuming that a laser makes a gun a more effective tool. I'm not so sure that it does. A much greater factor in the effectiveness of a gun is the person standing behind the gun.

[ripley16]

That's assuming that a laser makes a gun a more effective tool. I'm not so sure that it does.

How could it not? I reiterate;

* It's a tool, not a crutch. Are iron sights a crutch?

* Someone mentioned a laser once lost it's POA. That's of course has never happened to iron sights - has it?

* LE agencies do use lasers. They use other crutches too. Longitude Zero, does your TASER use a laser?

* If you are unable to raise your weapon to eyesight level - how do you place an aimed shot? Guess, hope, "close is good enough"?

* Do any of you have a flashlight to use at night? Is it a crutch or a tool to help you?

* I don't understand why anyone thinks enhancing one's ability to use your weapon better is a bad idea. Old habits, misinformation... I don't know, but if you don't want a laser, don't use one. But don't call it a crutch. At least not unless you remove your iron sights, another ineffective, useless, fallible "crutch".

* We've moved on; past the days of the S&W model 10. There are new concepts, new ideas. Trijicon, Red Dot, Reflex, Laser, Tritium, Night Vision... these are some of the new tools, new ideas. They work. That's why people use them.

There, I've said my piece. We'll have to disagree on this one.