Lefty Mag Drop Problem

[TenorTim]

Hi all. New member to the forum here. First off let me say that I've gleaned a wealth of knowledge from the posts here. I bought my CM9 about a year ago, and have really enjoyed it. I think it's by far the best mico auto on the market. I do have a minor problem that I'd like you all to look into with for me. My CM9 has a small "cover" on the right side of the frame near the slide (has one screw in it near the top back of the frame). I think this cover is on all Kahr autos.


Well I'm a lefty. I've just got my enhanced CCW permit and have been doing some tactical training. One of the very basic aspects of this training is switching mags. Of course a clean mag drop from the gun is important (not tell you guys anything you don't know) So the problem: When I depress the mag release with my middle finger (remember I'm a lefty) I put pressure on this "cover" with the knuckle of my thumb... This "cover" seems to "give" and apparently squeezes the mag in the frame... The mag will drop about 1/2' and stop.... To test this, I can hold the gun by the slide and depress the mag release and the mag drops cleanly.... It's only when this "cover" has pressure on it, that I have this problem.. Unfortunately this cover is right where my thumb naturally rests... moving it off the cover is a very awkward position for me... Can anyone else try holding pressure on this cover and see if they have the same problem?

[TenorTim]

Here's a pic of the problem area.
http://tinypic.com/r/2dc7e45/8

[muggsy]

Does the mag drop free if you don't push on the cover? I suspect not. If not there is a cure for the mag drop problem. Let us know what you find.

[Bawanna]

"To test this, I can hold the gun by the slide and depress the mag release and the mag drops cleanly.... It's only when this "cover" has pressure on it, that I have this problem.."

I would have said the same thing Muggsy said had I not retained the above sentence.
I'm surprised that the plate would contact the mag enough to make a difference but I'll have to play with that a bit.

[TenorTim]

That's right Bawanna, It only does this when there is pressure on the plate.
For anyone who's lost on what we are discussing, Here is a picture showing the pressure point.
http://i62.tinypic.com/2dc7e45.jpg

[berettabone]

My MK9 mag drops freely, no matter where there is pressure, or how it is held.

[TenorTim]

Hmmm... I was hoping someone could replicate the problem so we could work out a solution... Perhaps it's only inherent with CM9's...

[AIRret]

I had to become a left handed shooter almost 3 years ago (I've worked at it so hard that now it would be weird to go back to the right) and I developed a technique on my PM 9 that always works when shooting two handed (when shooting one handed I use my index
finger and am successful about %80 of the time).
I know….I should do it the same way every time whether it's one or two hands but I have a nerve issue which affects my left hand strength (trapped ulnar nerve) so I have had to
adapt!
Anyway, this is what I do and it is Very Fast. With my right social finger I reach under the trigger guard and press the mag. release, it works EVERY time.

[RRP]

Can anyone else try holding pressure on this cover and see if they have the same problem?

I don't have a CM9, but I tried it with a PM9. I believe the frames are the same.

I tested three different flush magazines. Two of the magazines dropped free, regardless of pressure applied to the grip and cover plate. I was able to impair the ejection of the third magazine when pressure was applied. However, this magazine only dropped 1/2-way, even when no pressure was applied to the grip.

There appears to be slight differences in the size/thickness of the magazines. You might try a different magazine to see if the problem is mag-specific. Or, you might try squeezing the mag to eliminate a bulge in its mid-section.

Keep us posted.

[muggsy]

Tim, if you have access to a caliper measure the width of the magazine in the middle and again at the feed lips. If the mag is a few thousandths wider at the feed lips than at the middle, disassemble the mag and gently squeeze the feed lips in a vice until they measures the same as the middle. That should fix the problem. It doesn't take much effort and will cost you nothing.

[TenorTim]

My friend has a P9... Had him do the same test... He had the same results... The mag only drops about half way when pressure is applied to the plate....
By the way, I measured my mags as suggested see results below (Both mags fail to drop when pressure is applied to the plate)

Mag#1 From the top down:
.486
.484
.486
.484

Mag#2 From the top down:
.485
.486
.484
.484

As you can see they are very consistent....

[muggsy]

I guess you'll have to find another way to drop the mag there lefty. Maybe you could depress the mag catch with your weak hand and then go for the new mag.

[getsome]

My PM40 doesn't drop mags freely and I like it that way and here's why....These are bad breath range guns in the first place and the chances are you will never need to reload in a running gunfight with a PM9 and most folks, myself included don't even carry a spare mag.....Now for those folks that do like to carry a backup mag (which isn't a bad idea) it would be a good idea to say fire 3 or 4 rounds from the original mag then pull and pocket it and reload a fresh mag to fill the gun....If the mag drops free you might not be able to find it and have those remaining 3-4 rounds still available if you run your spare mag dry....

Having a mag drop free in a high cap pistol isn't such a big deal if you have 2 or more 16 round spare mags left but in a little gun like the PM9 having every round available might become real important and you can't use those rounds left in the mag you dropped somewhere in the parking lot so in my mind having the mag stay with the gun until pulled free and pocketed is a good thing....

[TenorTim]

Thanks for all the replies guys... My goal here was to see if anyone else was having this problem and if so, suggestions on how to fix it... This is IMHO a flaw... whether in design, or manufacturing... I think it's worth looking into and trying to fix...

[RRP]

TT,

I think you could mitigate the problem is a few ways.


Make your magazines more "slippery" by polishing them. Of course, the down side is they may be harder to hold onto.
Adhere a piece of 220 grit, PSA (pressure sensitive adhesive) sandpaper to the side/edge of a magazine, and move it in and out of the magwell, a few times. Then test. Continue removing material as needed, using caution not to overdo.

[muggsy]

The truth be known it's left handed people who are flawed. You only have to look to the idiot who currently occupies the White House to know I'm right. :) Seriously, I've looked into this issue and have found that putting pressure on the grip in that area forces the trigger bar inward and causes it to bind on the magazine. I wouldn't consider it a design flaw as the gun was designed for right handed people. That, however, does nothing to remedy your situation. My suggestion is to learn to shoot right handed, find another method of releasing the mag, or buy a different gun. A steel frame version might just be the ticket. I don't think that Kahr is about to make a mirror image model anytime soon. You might consult with other left handed people to inquire as to how they handle the situation. Short of that, no help here.

[TenorTim]

Thanks Muggsy... I love my Kahr, but I guess I might need to start thinking about switching to an ambidextruios brand... I'm new to pistols and didn't realize I was left eye dominant when I bought it... Thanks again...

[Bawanna]

Are you right handed in everything else. If your right handed carry and shoot right handed, easy to shift over to use your dominant eye. I have 6 or 7 cross dominant cops here at the office.

They have to shoot rifle left handed of course but they all still carry and shoot handguns with their right hand.

[muggsy]

My eyes weren't cross dominant until my cataract surgery. I learned to use my left eye and right hand in one range session. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks. My wife says that I was cockeyed to begin with. :)

[TenorTim]

Well I'm admittedly odd. I write with my right hand, but do most everything else left handed. The gun feels most natural in my left hand, and since I'm new to pistols, I figured I should learn with my left hand . I understand that many shoot corss dominant, but I would think, ideally one should shoot on the dominate side if there are no other factors to consider...

[muggsy]

Which hand do you wipe with? User the other for eating. Sage advice. :)

[TenorTim]

Problem solved! Took a dry erase pen and covered both sides of the mag then loaded in the gun and squeezed on the cover as I hit the mag release... The mag showed the wear points clearly... The two ribs in the upper portion of the mag well were the culprit. I sanded the ribs down a little on both sides and now the mag falls right out.

[muggsy]

Problem solved! Took a dry erase pen and covered both sides of the mag then loaded in the gun and squeezed on the cover as I hit the mag release... The mag showed the wear points clearly... The two ribs in the upper portion of the mag well were the culprit. I sanded the ribs down a little on both sides and now the mag falls right out.

Way to go Tim. Where there's a will there's a way.