cm9 slide stop spring question/chip out of rail

[smokersteve]

Just picked up a cm9. Had one heck of a time getting the slide stop out. Finally resorted to a hammer and after about 6 solid whacks it came out. It's really odd hitting a new gun with a hammer.
The slide lock spring does not sit flush to the body of the gun. I took the screw out and the spring is bent which causes it to not sit flush. Is that what could be causing the hard disassembly?
I only have a CW380 to compare it to and on the CW380 the spring sits flush and it disassembles fairly easy.

[berettabone]

wow............................................... .................................................. ...............

[getsome]

May be the guns slide stop was put in wrong from the factory and bent the spring if it's a brand new gun or it's possible somebody looked at it at the gun shop and took it apart then bent the spring trying to put it back together but whatever happened you need to snug up the #6 torx screw with the spring straight with the frame and bend it back into position where it's 90 degrees to the frame from both the side and top then reassemble the slide stop pin so the spring goes in the little groove properly....

The slide stop pin can be a booger to get out when the guns are new and it's pretty normal to have to use a plastic mallet or a screw driver handle to knock on it a bit to get it started but after 500 rounds or so it will be much easier to push out using your fingers or as Bawanna does with his Johnson...:D

[smokersteve]

I fixed the spring that was bent. Kahr said they will send a new one.
Kahrs quality control must not be up to par. I also found a good size chip out of one of the metal rails. Here's a picture.


http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p622/stevehyle/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2014-03-20-13-59-24.png (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/stevehyle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2014-03-20-13-59-24.png.html)

[wyntrout]

You're about the 1,000th person to bring up that chip in the rail... perfectly normal... used in manufacturing or assembly. That's covered in the FAQ's at Kahr.com and you should have watched the video for disassembly and assembly of your Kahr pistol. Whacking it with a hammer could have damaged a few things if the slide and the frame weren't perfectly aligned!

Here are a bunch of links and stuff:

Welcome to the Kahrtalk forum supported by K a h r Arms.
Here are a few essential links and things to do BEFORE you take your new pistol to the range, and ESPECIALLY BEFORE taking it apart and trying to re-assemble it! The Kahr is a different design… 6-7 unique patents cover the Kahrs. I’m not trying to imply that you don’t know anything about guns, but many don’t know anything about the Kahrs and some of the things you can do to damage or cause malfunctions of your new, or new-to-you Kahr pistol.

First, if you don’t have a manual, yet, or one didn’t come with your pistol, you can view it and/or download the pdf file here:
http://www.kahr.com/PDF/kahrmanual.pdf

Please watch one of these videos FIRST! These videos can point out possible problem areas and emphasize correct procedures!
Take down and re-assembly videos:
T, TP, CW, P, & PM/CM Series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=G2cZgVg_SwA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G2cZgVg_SwA)
MK series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...mSCnIOaUk#t=0s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zXmSCnIOaUk#t=0s)
K series:
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-K9-Elite.asp

There are many links on fixing problems listed in several places… under the New Member or Kahr Tech sub-forums. To start, a very good one:

Proper Prepping of a new Kahr:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14748

A very handy one is the Kahr Lubrication Diagram:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14750

Many of your questions can be answered in these areas and you can learn how your Kahr works and not damage it with improper handling.

Another great resource for information on Kahrs... Archives of Magazine and Internet Reviews for Kahr pistols by industry experts. They test these pistols and report on their views and the ammo they tested in it. This is a good way to find ammo that might fit your needs along with accuracy and feeding in the pistol... usually from a rest with velocity and energy, as well as penetration and expansion sometimes... very informational.

http://www.kahr.com/product-reviews.asp

Frequently asked questions: http://www.kahr.com/faq.asp?

One very important bit of advice: Hold the Kahr pistol firmly when firing OR CHAMBERING a round. These compact pistols need all of the force they can get from the slide to get a round into the chamber successfully. If you don't hold the pistol firmly, part of the needed momentum is transferred to MOVING THE PISTOL and the top round will DIVE and jam into the right side of the feed ramp. The weak hand, over hand rack method gives the best grip and a firm rack will give you the best chance at chambering a round.

Use the weak hand fingers over the slide(clear of the ejection port), thumb along the slide and pointing to the rear. Use the gun hand to simultaneously firmly push the gun as you give a vigorous rack with the weak hand and cleanly release the slide as it reaches the rear limit and is "snatched" from the weak hand. This approximates a real rack from firing and beats the slide release method WHEN executed properly. Much more strength can be exerted when this is done closer to the body.

Here's a video on that. The first part is what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=hjLbFOw8sow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hjLbFOw8sow)

There are many helpful members here most of the time who might be able to help you, but as anywhere, there are many opinions and not all are correct. Be mindful of this before doing anything drastic to modify your pistol!


For the .45 Kahrs, here's some more info:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14749


Wynn:)
Aka wyntrout

PS: I keep thinking of stuff to add and help new members... and am trying to cover most of the popular subjects. Yes, it's repetitious to many, but possibly not to all new members. This approach is easier than having to look up every tidbit for each new member or question that arises. :)

[AIRret]

wyn, I knew you would show up when I saw the "chip out of the rail" comment!
Good man

[wyntrout]

Here's some info on the slide lock spring:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7773&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1361815810

FAQ's: http://www.kahr.com/faq.asp



Q. Part of the frame rail appears to be missing on my Kahr polymer pistol. Is this normal?

A. The top rails on the Kahr polymer pistol are designed to minimize stress. It may not appear to be symmetrical because of its design.
>>Back to top (http://www.kahr.com/faq.asp#top)
Q. There is a chip in the metal guide rail of my polymer pistol. Is this normal?

A. This is a witness mark for the polymer frame manufacturer and is present by design.

Wynn:)

[smokersteve]

Wyntrout,
Thanks for the advice.
My other Kahr doesn't have a chip in the rail, so it seemed odd to me. I did read through Kahrs manual. I must have missed the part about the chip in the rail. What page is it on?

I dismantled my CW380 about 1000 times so I'm familiar with taking apart a Kahr.
On the cw9 the slide stop was so tight that a hammer was my only option. I talked to Kahr after I got it apart. I told him I noticed the spring was bent and how hard it was to get the slide stop out. They are sending me a new spring and he said try using a hammer if its real tight. The manual says the same thing.

http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p622/stevehyle/Mobile%20Uploads/20140320_145053.jpg (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/stevehyle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140320_145053.jpg.html)

[kerby9mm]

If you think about it when you fire the last round the follower nub pushes the slide stop up to lock the slide back. That means the slide stop must rotate while in the barrel lug & the holes in the frame. What I'm getting at is if everything is lined up there must be enough play to remove the ss without a hammer. I can take both my mk's down in a few seconds without a struggle. IMO if its that hard things aren't lined up. I know I'm talking about steel Kahrs but isn't the principle the same?

[wyntrout]

I was just concerned when you said hammer. The instructions say use a light, non-marring one or a screwdriver handle. I've only used the latter. My PM45's pin is harder to get moving with finger or thumbnail, but the pin must be aligned with the cutout on the slide, or using the witness marks.

Care must be used in inserting the slide lock pin with respect to the spring. Either or both sides can be damaged. My PM45's SL spring was really screwed up on both sides. There was no bending it straight. Kahr sent me another and I keep spares for all of my polymer Kahrs. If the left side is bent, the pin can work out and if the right side is not on the ledge or bent, the slide may lock back unexpectedly or there may be failures to feed or chamber.

I don't remember if the "chip" was in the manual, but it's in the FAQ's and one of the favorite questions here... that and the plastic rails shedding plastic. There are sturdy molded-in steel rails to keep the slide in place. A good picture is from a Kaboom someone had with a squib and subsequently firing the pistol without checking the barrel for obstructions!

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7507&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1359647630

Wynn:)

[jocko]

those slide stops for some reason seem to get easier to take out after a few times of being taken out. I am not sur e if it smooths itself out or that the owner just masters it. either way most after awhile seem to say no big deal. I would rather figtht it a tad that to have it so hairy that it might move out on its own to. If u wanna fight a slide stop lever, try the K9 slide stop. It is a real bastard but again, it is whatit is and I have no issues with it. I personally think it is the finest slide stop set up I have ever seen to. I think I have readof only one time that slide stop spring/rod has ever been bad on a K9 or K40 . great set up..

u know some people are also just pu$$ys and then some people just like Pu$$ys , there is a difference u know..

[smokersteve]

My son and I headed out to shoot after prepping the cw9. We shot 163 rounds with zero malfunctions. Nice shooting gun.
100 BrassMAXX
50 Blazer brass
10 Tula steel
3 Federal jhp

[wyntrout]

That's a great sized pistol. I carry my P9 most of the time. I did add the black metal base to the carry mags for minimum profile in CCW. I carry an 8-round extended-grip mag for a spare in a Kydex holder on my opposite side.

Wynn:)

[100percent]

I purchased my pm40 used. The slide stop was tight. Probably never had been disassembled. I think I used a piece of wood as a pusher the first time. It is still tight but comes out with fingers anymore.

The rear slide plate was similarly tight. No problem almost Glock easy after a few tries.

[muggsy]

wow............................................... .................................................. ...............

You can say that again. :)

[muggsy]

I learned long ago that one doesn't force a gun apart. I always make it a rule to get a bigger hammer. This guy must belong to the ten thumbs club. I wonder if he aligned the witness marks before beating on the slide stop with a hammer. Stranger things have happened. He hit it so hard that he put a notch in the rail. Must be a graduate of the Jocko School of Gunsmiths. :)

[smokersteve]

Muggsy,
Everthing I did to try and remove the slide stop was with the marks lined up.
Tried 1st with thumb- no go
bottom of magazine-no go
Squeezed some oil there and let sit 10 min
tried thumb again-no go
Bottom of magazine-no go
Pried with screwdriver-no go
tapped with bottom of screwdriver-no go
more oil & let sit
thumb-no go
Screwdriver-no go
only option left-hammer
tapped lightly with hammer-no go
little harder-no go
harder-no go
solid whack-no go
it took about 6 solid strikes to move the slide stop
even after it moved a little it came out real difficult

I figured out the problem. The slide stop spring could not sit flush against the polymer because there was not enough polymer removed from the factory causing the spring to sit at an angle. The spring ended up bending. I removed some polymer and fixed the spring. Kahr is sending me a new spring.

Do you think I like hitting a new gun with a hammer?
This would not have happened if Kahrs quality control was better

[berettabone]

wow............................................... .................................................. .................

[FLBri]

.....
This would not have happened if Kahrs quality control was better

... make all the excuses you want, but THIS is a true statement.

[berettabone]

... make all the excuses you want, but THIS is a true statement.
Even if this was a true statement........................makes all the excuses you want for banging on your firearm with a hammer. We may not know the whole story........................................http://kahrtalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Bawanna]

Everybody relax. Smoker needs to know there's a little bit of leg pulling going on here. Note the smiley at the end of Mugs, our foreign relations officers post.

[berettabone]

Relax? That's why we come to the forum......................;)

[smokersteve]

Even if this was a true statement........................makes all the excuses you want for banging on your firearm with a hammer. We may not know the whole story........................................http://kahrtalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Wow............................................... ...................:rolleyes:

[skiflydive]

On my CM9 I can push the pin out with my thumb. On my P380 I have to use the bottom of the mag to push it out. The groove in the pin on the P380 seems to be cut a little deeper and I think that's the difference.

Smokersteve...you are dropping the mag before you try to push the pin out, right? Just checking.

[Bawanna]

Leg pulling once again.

No wow at all.

[smokersteve]

Skiflydive,
Yeah, the mag is out when I'm disassembling it. Since fixing the slide lock spring it is better and I polished the slide lock pin and that helped a little.

[berettabone]

On my CM9 I can push the pin out with my thumb. On my P380 I have to use the bottom of the mag to push it out. The groove in the pin on the P380 seems to be cut a little deeper and I think that's the difference.

Smokersteve...you are dropping the mag before you try to push the pin out, right? Just checking.
If you can push the pin out with your thumb, you must not be doing it correctly. Using the end of your mag, well, it could slip, and scratch your finish. May I suggest using some firm whacks with a hammer.............I can guarantee, that it will come out.

[muggsy]

Not to pick on anyone, but if I could not take my gun apart by following the manufacturers instructions my first move would be to call the manufacturer. If I couldn't get it apart with their help my next move would have been to send it back to the manufacturer. The very last thing I would have done to any brand new gun is to beat on the gun with a freaking hammer, but that's just me. I have to admit that I did have the foresight to be born a gunsmith's son and that may have given me a slight advantage, but even without my father training I doubt seriously that I would have ever BEAT ON A BRAND NEW GUN with a FREAKING HAMMER! Having made my point I shall withdraw. ( Please note the absents of a smiley face.)

[smokersteve]

Not to pick on anyone, but people must not read the previous posts.
Post #8 actually has a picture of Kahrs manual saying, "Use a light, non-marring hammer or plastic screwdriver handle if necessary".
In that same post(#8) the OP actually said he called Kahr and their technician said try using a hammer.

[kerby9mm]

Smokersteve, I know you are just trying to do the right thing to get your new gun broken down but please don't use a hammer to do it. Something on the inside could be amiss or whatever & possibly any amount of pounding might not work anyway. I would just continue to pull the slide back as you push on the ss. Did you try putting an empty mag in then pull the slide back as you push hard on the ss. If it works take the mag out right away before you try to finish getting the ss out.

[muggsy]

Gently tapping with a non marring plastic hammer is once thing. Wailing the crap out of it and bending the slide lock spring quite another. Of course, since it's your gun you may treat it in any manner you so choose. Who am I to say. I won't bother you with my advice again.

[smokersteve]

So no one reads the previous posts. I give up.

[DavidR]

So no one reads the previous posts. I give up.

Don't give up. I read your posts. If you hadn't used the hammer you would have needed to send it back to Kahr. Nothing to lose by trying.

[smokersteve]

DavidR,
I haven't given up totally. I just won't respond to knuckleheads who obviously aren't reading the posts.

[berettabone]

Some just like to make life more difficult......................................... ..........................:o

[jocko]

oh my WTF a hard to get out slide stop, this is not a big deal. It is not suppose dto fall out, it ckan be more tighter than the same model gun. It is what it si. Every poster/owener here4 agrees ahtat after x number of rounds and that pin bein taken out a few times that it gets easier. IMO it aint never gonna easiest enough tyo fall out or to grabwith ur finners and ejust pull outu. If u look at that slide stop and the slide sop spring, there is a groove on that slide stop lever right by the flat peace of the lever. the back side of that slide stop spring locks into that when u insert the slide stop (if u did it correctly)_. Thiis what holds that slide stop in the gun, nuttin else. PUt some grease around that slide stop lever and that back side of the little springhy ad that will help emmensely. Try not tocompare it withu7tter makers guns either. They all work differently. We often see criticism of thgat little springhy but if u really study it, it is ingenious. Utterthan mr. moon designing it I can only forsee maybeopl jocko figurng it out to. but anyway, that little sprnghyt does two major things allat one time.

1. It holds that slide stop lever in the gun

2 the end tip is what pulls that lever back down from prematurely lockign the slide open. Often times if u bend that spring to much it will lock open for no reason. thast is because of incorrectly installing the slide stop lever and u bent the spring tip. Wyn has a super photo photo of how that little springhy should look. In the propper preppng thread t also describes how to check for this and how to actually fix it yourself. Beause u might have bent is doe snot mean it is now a bad spring. U can correct it.

KEEP IN MIND IF U TRY TO ACTUALLY TIGHTEN THAT LITTLE SCREW THAT HLDS THAT SPRINGHY IN PLACE U WILL STRIP THE THREADS OUT OF THE FRAME. Ur screwng a metal screw into polymer. snug is good SNUG IS GOOD.

Smoker Steve, muggs means no harm. , u hav eto understand that when Muggs wakes up he is full of gently feelings, but as soon as he takes his morning dump, ALL THOSE FEELINGS ARE NOW GONE FOR THE DAY, so alot depends when he reads and posts. Look at how he hammersol jocko. and I know for a fact thst allthose posts come after 9 a.m. Just sayih.

We are all;here to help, trust ol jocko on that.

I have statedsomewhere that if u wanna see a tuff bastard slidel ock pin, try pushingout egh K series slide stop lever. But IMO that is the finest slide stop lever set up I have seen. I have a plastic small hammer that pushes that K9 lever out with ease..

Patience is golden.

and Practice does not make perfectbut perfect priactice does.

PM: I get many emails from Muggs and mostly they are of deep thought and religious in nature, but every one of thos are posted before 9. a.m. so it not that he is a bag guy it is just WHEN HE IS A BAD GUY and thatis from 9.01 a.m top midnitght.:amflag:

[berettabone]

[QUOTE=smokersteve;294498]DavidR,
I haven't given up totally. I just won't respond to knuckleheads who obviously aren't reading the posts.[/QUOTE You will get a rise out of Harley guys when you mention " Knuckleheads".............just sayinhttp://kahrtalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[jocko]

i get a better riss when I see Monica walk in the oom!!! Just sayin

[jocko]

i get a better rise when I see Monica walk in the oom!!! Just sayin

[DavidR]

DavidR,
I haven't given up totally. I just won't respond to knuckleheads who obviously aren't reading the posts.

For what it's worth, the slide stops on both my CW9 and CM9 have become much easier after 400 rounds and tearing the gun down about 10 times. I keep them well-lubed and can now remove them by hand.

[skiflydive]

If you can push the pin out with your thumb, you must not be doing it correctly. Using the end of your mag, well, it could slip, and scratch your finish. May I suggest using some firm whacks with a hammer.............I can guarantee, that it will come out.

Thanks Bone... All is fine...I've used the mag dozens of times with nary a mishap.

[Rubb]

My PM9 was a little tough when new, but soon became easy without any tools.
When I got my CM a couple weeks back I was able to break 2 down at the LGS without tools. The display 1st, then the actual purchase gun...