New CW380 first impressions and range report

[FCastle88]

My CW380 finally showed up from Buds, and got a chance to take it to the range. Overall seems better constructed than other pocket .380s like the LCP and P3AT. Though finish is a bit rough. I couldn't tell under all the oil when I examined it at the dealer, but there's a few tiny scrapes/scratches on top of the slide. As well as a faintly visible 1/2" or so scratch in the steel under the finish. Guess it's not really a big deal, you have to look pretty closely to see them. However it does bug me a bit to have scratches on a brand new gun when my CM9 looks pretty much new after 1,000+ rounds and being carried. I'm guessing with the lower price point and rush to fill demand for them QC has been relaxed a bit. Trigger has a little more take-up than my CM9, but pull is shorter and slightly lighter. I'd guess around 5.5 lbs.

At the range I fired 50 rounds each of UMC FMJ, WWB FMJ, and Precision One XTP. My CM9 has never malfunctioned except for a couple premature slide lock backs that seem to have been fixed by tightening the slide stop spring screw. I was hoping the CW380 would be the same way but I did have a few malfunctions. It was surprisingly easy to shoot for it's size. I have big hands and have to concentrate on not pulling my CM9 to the side during the last bit of trigger travel. I was expecting this to be worse with the CW380 since it's smaller, however somehow it was actually less of an issue with it.

UMC: Worked perfectly, not much else to say.

WWB: After reading that many P380s have trouble feeding the flat nose bullets, I was initially surprised that it fed fine. Though it did feel like the bullet was hanging up slightly when chambering the first round from the mag. Then near the end of the box I had two stovepipes. I also noticed that the spent casings had a lot of discoloration and burnt on soot/powder on one side. Which would seem to indicate that the casings aren't expanding enough to seal the chamber. Both issues could be explained by the ammo being a bit too weak. I have another box I'll try once it's broken in a bit more.

Precision One XTP: Intended to be my carry ammo, I was disappointed that the second round failed to feed. The round appeared to be angled upwards too far and the nose got stuck on the top of the chamber. The rest of the box functioned fine. I ordered 250 rounds of it, planning on shooting 50-100 rounds of UMC next range trip to finish the break-in. Then try another 100 rounds of XTP to see if the FTF was just a fluke or due to the gun only have 30 rounds through it at the time.

[sharpetop]

It sounds like the malfunctions started after nearly 100 rounds. The feed ramp was probably gunked up with powder residue, causing the bullet not to feed properly.

[Bill K]

It sounds like you're going to do fine with your .380.

For break-in I like all ball ammo with a good cleaning before shooting each batch of 50 for the recommend 200 rounds. I'll not try carry ammo until after break-in and another cleaning.

[smokersteve]

I got the CW380 and CM9 also. In that size of guns they are the best options available.

On my CW380 if the magazine follower doesn't move easliy up and down I get some feeding issues. I take the mag apart and clean it real good. Then stick the follower on the spring and slowly insert into the magazine. If it doesnt go up smoothly I'll do some light sanding. For the mag I roll up some 400 grit sandpaper and put it on a pen and sand the inside of the mag and the feed lips also. I also sand the follwer with 400 grit on all sides in the direction the follower travels. Since I've started doing that to all my Kahr mags I dont have any issues.

Have you tried any of precision one self defense ammo in 9mm?

[Baklash]

Thanks for the report. I'm thinking about getting one for my wife since she doesn't like to shoot the 38 special.

[FCastle88]

It sounds like the malfunctions started after nearly 100 rounds. The feed ramp was probably gunked up with powder residue, causing the bullet not to feed properly.
I alternated shooting 2-3 mags of each ammo at a time to try to avoid confusing an ammo issue with the gun being dirty/gunked up. The FTF with the Precision One was after only 25-30 rounds. The stovepipes with the WWB were after about 110-120 rounds. I did shoot another 30 rounds or so of UMC and Precision One after the stovepipes with no issues. By the time I was done shooting the gun did seem to be gunked up, the slide wasn't racking as smoothly as it did before. I suspect the issues with the WWB was a combination of weak ammo and the dirty gun. I am surprised the WWB seems to be weaker than the UMC. With 9mm I've found UMC to be pretty weak, and WWB runs fine, though it is very dirty and a bit inaccurate. Obviously I'm more worried about having issues with the XTP and other hollow points, though that issue was pretty early into the break-in. Like I said, I'll break it in some more than run a couple boxes of XTPs through it.

[FCastle88]

I got the CW380 and CM9 also. In that size of guns they are the best options available.

On my CW380 if the magazine follower doesn't move easliy up and down I get some feeding issues. I take the mag apart and clean it real good. Then stick the follower on the spring and slowly insert into the magazine. If it doesnt go up smoothly I'll do some light sanding. For the mag I roll up some 400 grit sandpaper and put it on a pen and sand the inside of the mag and the feed lips also. I also sand the follwer with 400 grit on all sides in the direction the follower travels. Since I've started doing that to all my Kahr mags I dont have any issues.

Have you tried any of precision one self defense ammo in 9mm?
The follower seems to move up and down fine, and I shot about 120 rounds after the FTF without any issues that could have been caused by the mag.

I have not tried any of Precision One's 9mm rounds. Their HP rounds are either cheap no-name bullets or XTP. In the few ballistic tests I've seen of their 9mm XTP rounds they did poorly for the same reason they're a great choice for .380. They're designed to have small, controlled expansion to maximize penetration. This is needed for .380 because the low energy and light bullets means bullets that expand nice and big don't penetrate enough. With 9mm there's plenty of rounds that expand much larger than the XTP and still give plenty of penetration. Especially for my CM9 I like Federal HST 124 gr or 147 gr. The HST bullets are designed to expand well at lower velocities. Out of a short barrel the standard pressure HST rounds perform as well as or better than most +P rounds, without the extra noise and recoil. This test out of a 3" barrel is particularly impressive.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3VfWkWMzOI The HST 147 gr +P is even more impressive, but pretty much impossible to find.

[muggsy]

The marks on the slide came from Kahr test firing the gun. Every Kahr pistol will acquire them at some point in it's life. It's normal wear.

[smokersteve]

I have not tried any of Precision One's 9mm rounds. Their HP rounds are either cheap no-name bullets or XTP. In the few ballistic tests I've seen of their 9mm XTP rounds they did poorly for the same reason they're a great choice for .380. They're designed to have small, controlled expansion to maximize penetration. This is needed for .380 because the low energy and light bullets means bullets that expand nice and big don't penetrate enough. With 9mm there's plenty of rounds that expand much larger than the XTP and still give plenty of penetration. Especially for my CM9 I like Federal HST 124 gr or 147 gr. The HST bullets are designed to expand well at lower velocities. Out of a short barrel the standard pressure HST rounds perform as well as or better than most +P rounds, without the extra noise and recoil. This test out of a 3" barrel is particularly impressive.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3VfWkWMzOI The HST 147 gr +P is even more impressive, but pretty much impossible to find.
Thanks. I've heard good stuff about their .380 xtp but haven't heard anything on their 9mm. I use Federal 115 grain JHP in 9mm which has good penetration and expands well.

[FCastle88]

The marks on the slide came from Kahr test firing the gun. Every Kahr pistol will acquire them at some point in it's life. It's normal wear.
How would the top of the slide between the breech and rear sight get scratches and scrapes from test firing the gun? Especially scratches that have finish applied over top of them? It looks more like there were scratches and rough spots in the steel of the slide and they tried to cover it with the finish. Then either the finish was thin in a few spots or they tried to sand down a few small rough spots. It's not "normal wear" on a brand new gun. Just because the gun will get wear/scratch eventually is no excuse for it to come that way from the factory. I have guns that I've carried for several years with no significant wear. Certainly not scratches on parts of the slide that shouldn't even contact a holster. Like I said, not a big deal and you have to look pretty closely to see them. However I found the finish and QC to be a bit lacking.

[2tango2]

I was ready to dump my CW380 after 1 range session. Listened to advice here and now it is my go everywhere every time gun. I love it


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[dsk]

How would the top of the slide between the breech and rear sight get scratches and scrapes from test firing the gun? Especially scratches that have finish applied over top of them? It looks more like there were scratches and rough spots in the steel of the slide and they tried to cover it with the finish. Then either the finish was thin in a few spots or they tried to sand down a few small rough spots. It's not "normal wear" on a brand new gun. Just because the gun will get wear/scratch eventually is no excuse for it to come that way from the factory. I have guns that I've carried for several years with no significant wear. Certainly not scratches on parts of the slide that shouldn't even contact a holster. Like I said, not a big deal and you have to look pretty closely to see them. However I found the finish and QC to be a bit lacking.

There is no "finish" on your pistol, it's naked stainless steel that's been bead blasted. Whatever you're seeing is part of the metal surface.

BTW when first out of the box my P380 was reliable only as long as it was kept clean. Roughly 500 rounds later it doesn't seem to be as bothered by residue as it was at first. These Kahrs have a very looooong break-in cycle, at least twice as long as the 200 rounds the manual states.

[2tango2]

My used CW9 must have been still in the break in phase as it did choke on a few rounds when I first shot it. Last 2 times out to range it has ingested about 300 trouble free rounds

[FCastle88]

There is no "finish" on your pistol, it's naked stainless steel that's been bead blasted. Whatever you're seeing is part of the metal surface.

BTW when first out of the box my P380 was reliable only as long as it was kept clean. Roughly 500 rounds later it doesn't seem to be as bothered by residue as it was at first. These Kahrs have a very looooong break-in cycle, at least twice as long as the 200 rounds the manual states.
Interesting, I'm surprised bead blasting would get down in some of the scratches. Though I suppose it being poorly done would explain the scrapes/scratches.

I took another trip to the range today, did not go as well as I was hoping. Fired 100 rounds of UMC FMJ. Had 4 FTE where the casing stuck in the breech opening horizontally with the open end facing the shooter. First FTE was only about 10 rounds in. Also had one malfunction where it appeared the extractor didn't grab the round as it was stripped from the magazine, or the round slipped out. The slide failed to go into battery, I tapped the rear of the slide a couple times but still wouldn't go into battery. Locked the slide back and there was still a live round in the chamber.

Hopefully it doesn't turn into a prolonged break-in, I only have 50 rounds each of UMC and WWB left, plus 100-150 rounds of XTP to check function. Took almost 2 months of checking the local Walmarts and a couple other stores a few times a week just to get 250 rounds of range ammo for the break-in. Not seeing much online for a decent price either.

[jocko]

I never want to say SHOOTER ERROR, ut always consider it when issues arise. Normally if a gun has a mechancial fault, it should duplicate itself time and time again. Also in the first 200 rounds u should pay some attention to issues as they occur, write them down and what round it happened etc and where in the magaazine it happened etc. It might help u figure out some of the issues. I. E. mag relaed, feed ramp related, extractor related. shooter related. Give the gun its break in time with good ammo not junk ****. Kahrs are tightk, they loosen up nicely with runds down range.

U can never hurt ur gun by giving the feed ramp a good repolishing and the inside of the chamber the same thing. Check for burrs on the feed lips of the magazine. just polish them with 600+ grp paper even if u can feel um. Again ur not removing jack sh!t eitehr,ur just smoothing out things. A good lube job goes a long way. Kahrs lube diagraham is a must.

The 380 khars are so so small thaq tis very easy to shooter error this gun. so keep ur sessioos short ad sweet. It is easy toget alittle tired but not realize it and then sh!t happens and u blame the gun when maybe it is shooter just tired and not knowing it.

A good gun has to mate up with its shooter to be reliable. expecailly i these small ass guns.

I can rememberb aqck some years when I had bought my wife a Kel tek 32 ad it gave issues wit her every time and I just could not see what she was doing wrong, but when I shot it, it was perfect. U can send back a perfect workig gun ad get it back any better.

eliinate all the possabilities that this forum give su in the kahr tech section. Study wyns threads in that section and also ol jockoj's prepper prep thread..

[mikemc53]

Without knowing any other info I might tend to lean toward ol jocko's way of thinking.

I have had 2 stovepipes with my cw380 - both were when I shot off-hand (left). I have no doubt it was shooter error, and with that error margin being so small, almost anything can bring it about.

Not certain...just sayin.:)

[ChuckR45]

My new CW 380 doesn't like Precision One hollow points. The first 2-3 in the magazine don't let the slide go into battery completely. I guess for the later rounds, the magazine is pressing less against the slide so it moves faster. Looking to get some Corbon to try. That usually works perfectly in my P 380.

[FCastle88]

I never want to say SHOOTER ERROR, ut always consider it when issues arise. Normally if a gun has a mechancial fault, it should duplicate itself time and time again. Also in the first 200 rounds u should pay some attention to issues as they occur, write them down and what round it happened etc and where in the magaazine it happened etc. It might help u figure out some of the issues. I. E. mag relaed, feed ramp related, extractor related. shooter related. Give the gun its break in time with good ammo not junk ****. Kahrs are tightk, they loosen up nicely with runds down range.

U can never hurt ur gun by giving the feed ramp a good repolishing and the inside of the chamber the same thing. Check for burrs on the feed lips of the magazine. just polish them with 600+ grp paper even if u can feel um. Again ur not removing jack sh!t eitehr,ur just smoothing out things. A good lube job goes a long way. Kahrs lube diagraham is a must.

The 380 khars are so so small thaq tis very easy to shooter error this gun. so keep ur sessioos short ad sweet. It is easy toget alittle tired but not realize it and then sh!t happens and u blame the gun when maybe it is shooter just tired and not knowing it.

A good gun has to mate up with its shooter to be reliable. expecailly i these small ass guns.

I can rememberb aqck some years when I had bought my wife a Kel tek 32 ad it gave issues wit her every time and I just could not see what she was doing wrong, but when I shot it, it was perfect. U can send back a perfect workig gun ad get it back any better.

eliinate all the possabilities that this forum give su in the kahr tech section. Study wyns threads in that section and also ol jockoj's prepper prep thread..
Pretty sure I wasn't tired on the second mag when the first malfunction occurred. I was doing everything the same as the first range trip when the FTEs occurred at about 120 rounds when the gun was pretty dirty. This time I had multiple FTEs in the first 50 rounds. I fired a few mags one-handed, and tried deliberately "limpwristing" a few times with no malfunctions. Doesn't seem to happen at any particular round in the mag. So far all but possibly one malfunction seem to be related to the extractor, or possibly the ejector.

This isn't my first Kahr, I've had my CM9 since they were released. I've read the prep thread, and the gun was lubed according to the lube diagram.

Kind of hard to be picky with .380 ammo. Not much out there besides the usual cheap range fodder, some reman, and a few $1-$1.50/round defensive rounds that don't even perform well. Precision One seems to be about the only decent ammo that's cheap enough to shoot a few hundred rounds. Guess I'll try another 50 round of FMJ next range trip, then some more Precision One the trip after that. If it's still malfunctioning at that point (at least 350 rounds) I'll be contacting Kahr.

[2tango2]

PPU, Blazer Brass and PMC Bronze have been spot on reliable in my CW380. Remington UMC has been eh and forget about Fiocchi. That crap is awful in it


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[bob98366]

Not seeing much online for a decent price either.

If you have not already, check out these two shopping bots for ammo and other interesting stuff:
http://www.gunbot.net/
http://ammoseek.com/
Sort on price per round.

BTW as for cost, I've shot over 2,500 rounds of factory reloads through my two CW40s with no more issues than with new range ammo (WWB, Blazer, etc.). Factory reloads have pretty much the same level of quality assurance that new range ammo has.

[FCastle88]

If you have not already, check out these two shopping bots for ammo and other interesting stuff:
http://www.gunbot.net/
http://ammoseek.com/
Sort on price per round.

BTW as for cost, I've shot over 2,500 rounds of factory reloads through my two CW40s with no more issues than with new range ammo (WWB, Blazer, etc.). Factory reloads have pretty much the same level of quality assurance that new range ammo has.
I've checked them, most of the .380 on there is either 500-1000 rounds or $30+ for 50 rounds. I at least want to check function before I buy 500 rounds. At least in 9mm I haven't found PMC, Blazer Brass, etc., to be any better than UMC or WWB. Though I am curious if others have found them to be better in .380. I don't necessarily have a problem with remanufactured ammo, but I've never bought any before. I've heard good things about Freedom Munitions, but their .380 looks to be flat nose. Might try some of Precision One's remanufactured .380