? about plating coming off feed ramp and chamber on PM9.

[Singlestack_9mm]

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu174/cortty1/IMG_4352.jpg I have about 700 rounds thru my PM9. In the middle of the feed ramp it looks like the plating is coming off. It dosn't looked scratched, it looks like chrome peeling off. I never had any problems with the gun, it just seams odd.

[jocko]

I never knew the barrles were chrome plated??

all their barrels are made at the lothar/walther factory, and come to kahr as a billet of high tensilde strength proprietary steel, 3 inches in diameter and 30 inchs long. only at the kahr factory is the barrel stock precisely cut and CNC machined. 75% of the solid steel billet is machined away to produce a single kahr barrel. Mine came with a dull finish coating on it and soon wore off from use. If it was chrome plated, I would have thought no coating would have been on it. I might be wrong on this but I have never read of chrome plating but I might have missed it also.

Might be a good question for someone at kahr to answer???

[ripley16]

I've never heard or read that Kahr barrels are plated either.

[Singlestack_9mm]

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure that my chamber and feed ramp are chrome or plated. My feed ramp came with a mirror finish. In the middle of the feed ramp where the bullets hit its white like the finish is getting knocked off. I will post some pics tonight once my daughters sleeping.

[jocko]

have u tried to polish that feed ramp any?? some fine 600+ grit paper willdo it or a dremel with somepolishign compound will do it faster and nicer. You can't hurt it,s o give it a polish. IMO if it ain't broke, don't fix it.......

It could also be some of the finish off the bullets hitting the feed ramp and leaving some of their finish there ????

[Singlestack_9mm]

have u tried to polish that feed ramp any?? some fine 600+ grit paper willdo it or a dremel with somepolishign compound will do it faster and nicer. You can't hurt it,s o give it a polish. IMO if it ain't broke, don't fix it.......

It could also be some of the finish off the bullets hitting the feed ramp and leaving some of their finish there ????

No, I just hit it with some solvent and it wouldn't rub off. It would make more sense that it's the finish off the bullets, I never thought of that. I'm not to concerned about it. My PM9 has been 100% reliable and I agree, if it works leave it alone.

Thanks

[jocko]

super idea. now just go out and shoot it like u stole it!!!

[Singlestack_9mm]

Added pics.

[jocko]

Added pics.

think I would call kahr and talk to them about this, you might be able to even send them this photo via email to their tech dept for all to see. I don't think that barrel is right, whether it is working correctly or not. Sure looks like some type of chrome plating to me. Guess I was wrong on that part to.

Keep us informed if you will. My bet is that they will send yuo a new barrel and you willnot hav eto send your old one in either.

[ripley16]

That sure looks like it's plated. Did you buy your PM9 new from a dealer... that's the original barrel?

[Ol'coot]

I am a Tooling Engineer by profession and can confirm that your photo it is definitely some type of plating, but I cannot tell what type from the photo. I should be stripped and re-plated or it will now only continue to get worst. I would contact Kahr this should be covered under warranty.

[Singlestack_9mm]

It's the original barrel and I bought it new from a local dealer, IA serial #. I plan to call Kahr Monday.

[jocko]

your gun is one of the latest made so kahr will stand behind it, would be nice if they could see the photo u posted here as it would save time etc. they will repalce the barrel. I do think you can send this photo via email to kahr service also.

Keep up posted...

[Singlestack_9mm]

Kahr had me ship the barrel to them. They wouldn't send me one without inspecting my barrel. They said they would ship out the new barrel the same day. I was trying to ask the guy about the plating, but my 3 year daughter was up my butt, making it very difficult to have a conversation with the tech. I figure when I get the new barrel I'll hand rack the gun a couple hundred times and put about 200 rounds thru to make sure it all good.

Thanks for the help guys.

[buttmez]

i believe that they are nickel plating the newer ones. i had an mk9 that i bought a couple of years ago and it was polished. i got another mk9 in july and it is definitely plated. it looks like the bore is also plated.

[jggonzalez]

Does this mean that Kahr has changed the steel in the barrel? I have an MK9 that is great and was considering getting a K9 to go with it. If they're using cheaper materials and plating them to cover it up, then I'll reconsider and go with a G19.:eek:

[500KV]

Does this mean that Kahr has changed the steel in the barrel? I have an MK9 that is great and was considering getting a K9 to go with it. If they're using cheaper materials and plating them to cover it up, then I'll reconsider and go with a G19.:eek:
Now that's a good question.
Wonder if Kahr would be willing to respond.

[ltxi]

Definetly interested here.....considering a K40 but I'm not at all up for plated barrels. My new production MK9 purchased June 09 is not plated.

[ripley16]

i believe that they are nickel plating the newer ones. i had an mk9 that i bought a couple of years ago and it was polished. i got another mk9 in july and it is definitely plated. it looks like the bore is also plated.

I just bought a new TP9 and the barrel is not plated. Curiouser and curiouser. :confused:

[jocko]

My question to Bob Holmes at Kahr: how long has kahr been plating their chambers and ramps??

ANSWER; Since day one, All barrels have been plated with a nickel based coating.

So if u have a kahr that barrel barrel is nickel plated...

[500KV]

Interesting.
What would make the plating start to come off is the next question?
Improper plating process or something else?

[ltxi]

Interesting.
What would make the plating start to come off is the next question?
Improper plating process or something else?

Yeah, I agree....interesting. I've polished out minor tool marks without being aware of plating. And the OP's picture is definitely ugly.

[Dietrich]

Interesting.
What would make the plating start to come off is the next question?
Improper plating process or something else?
I worked in electroplating for eight years.Usually if the plating started to come off it was poor adhesion caused by improper cleaning and/or surface preparation.The way it`s flaking off in the picture looks like it could be either or both. The metal looks odd underneath. I wonder if it was plated with a base metal and then plated with chrome or nickle. Maybe electroless nickle.Who knows?

[500KV]

Wouldn't this make you wonder if there was a bad batch of barrels out there somewhere?
Doesn't seem likely that only one barrel would turn up with this problem, however it's the only one I've personally heard of.

Hopefully it's just a one time thing.

[Singlestack_9mm]

Wouldn't this make you wonder if there was a bad batch of barrels out there somewhere?
Doesn't seem likely that only one barrel would turn up with this problem, however it's the only one I've personally heard of.

Hopefully it's just a one time thing.

I actually read about a plating problem at glocktalk. New PM9 barrel failure - Glock Talk (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1119683) I noticed a problem in the chamber of mine after the first or second time I shot it, but never thought much of it. When I was cleaning it before the last time I shot it, I remember a very small spot on the feed ramp, I just thought it was a blemish. Went back to the range and shot about 150 rounds and the plating came off rapidly. Probably a bad batch. I bought mine in march 09, my serial is IA92. I received my new barrel from Kahr today.

[pokey074]

Double-u tee eff? Plating on a stainless barrel???

[jocko]

Interesting.
What would make the plating start to come off is the next question?
Improper plating process or something else?

a bad plating job indeed. I can remember back in the days of chromed bumpers, Had alot of the chrome would just peel pff, due to poor plating. Not supposed to happen,but it does.

This is the first that I have seen in kahr's barrels. They would not know they had a bad plated barrel until it was fired some rounds. No doubt they will stand behind this flaw..

[deadhead1971]

I just noticed yesterday that my PM9 barrel is peeling or flaking inside the throat chamber--not feed ramp. I have 425 rounds through it. I am not having any problems so I don't know if it's an issue to be concerned out or not.

Mine is a #IB07xx and got it in June '09.

[deadhead1971]

Here are some photos of the nickel coat peeling inside the barrel chamber. I will send to Kahr and see what they say.

It's hard to see but it's right inside the chamber throat.

[LDM]

Yesterday sent my PM9 barrel back to Kahr for replacement for rough spots and/or plating flaking inside chamber.

This is frustrating on many levels, but moreover because I bought my PM9 new a week ago.

Friday went to range to run the 200 rounds. Had three instances of not going fully into battery; a 1/8" or so from closure. Can't say this was from a rough chamber as I had not seen the rough spots then, but suspect it now.

While cleaning Saturday, first noticed the rough spots on the plating inside the chamber.

Whoever did the plating did not catch this, and then whoever assembled the pistol did not catch this. And obviously I am not the only person to have a problem. Reasonable guess there was bad batch of barrels.

So shouldn't Kahr issue some kind of advisory?

Stay safe.

[deadhead1971]

I am sending mine off today. I have not had any jams but I am concerned about it since it's inside the barrel.

[paintwerk]

There is a small blemish in the chamber of my P9, its not big enough for me to be concerned right now, but i will be watching it closely to see if it gets worse.

[LDM]

deadhead1971, my rough spots were about twice as big as what I saw in your pictures. The area was on the inside top of the chamber, which is probably why I did not see it when I swabbed out the barrel during initial cleaning before going to the range.

Stay safe.

[deadhead1971]

LDM--just mailed it to kahr. They should get it Thursday. I went ahead and put insurance on it with a tracking number. Those barrels aint[sic] cheap. :)

I am not sure what they're reaction is going to be. I am not having any real noticable problems but my argument to them is, the nickel is coming off inside the barrel chamber, should this be happening?

I have 425 rounds through mine and noticed this "spot" while cleaning after the last shooting. It may have been there previously. I only now looked around in the barrel because I was aware of this thread.

[LDM]

When I talked to the Customer Service guy, he did not question me at all... I took that to mean he had heard this before. He was courteous and professional. He said they would send me a new barrel, it should not need any fitting (i.e. drop-in) and that my 200 round break-in would not have been wasted (all due respect, but I think I'll still shoot another few boxes before I place the weapon into service).

Problems or not, the barrel was defective and should be replaced.

To Kahr's credit, I believe that will happen.

My guess is that the plating was an outside contractor. Regardless, given the gun buying frenzy this past year, I'd guess everyone associated with the manufacture of guns has been swamped. Not making excuses, but things slip in times like these.

We all pay in the end however for these slips. It costs Kahr, and Kahr like all companies will price (or cut other costs) to achieve profit. Even if Kahr gets it back from the plating company, they still have the cost of staff handling the matter and the expense of shipping, etc. Not to mention the indirect hidden cost of someone hearing about a Kahr problem and then buying something else.

All things have a cost, and all costs are passed on.

I'd prefer to have paid a dollar more to have had someone take about ten seconds to inspect the barrel at the factory and not have had this hassle.

Stay safe.

[Singlestack_9mm]

As of last week they don't have any barrels to ship out. I had a plating problem in the chamber with the new barrel I got. I called and they were going to send me another new one out last Tuesday, but they called back and told me they rejected the new batch of barrels and won't be getting more for a couple weeks. I will call tomarrow and try to get status on when the new barrels are coming in.

[LDM]

As of last week they don't have any barrels to ship out. I had a plating problem in the chamber with the new barrel I got. I called and they were going to send me another new one out last Tuesday, but they called back and told me they rejected the new batch of barrels and won't be getting more for a couple weeks. I will call tomarrow and try to get status on when the new barrels are coming in.
:eek:... :mad:... :31:
Well... that made my day.


post script
The only bright side is that when they next send barrels out, I bet everyone of them has been inspected.

[deadhead1971]

Something is going on below the radar screen if they rejected a whole batch of barrels.

Keep me posted, and I'll do the same.

[Singlestack_9mm]

Just called kahr, they got some barrels in yesterday and thier shipping mine out today. Hopefully its a better batch.

[wagon]

To those member who has the same flaking problem with the Ni plating, do you use Ammonia based solvent in cleaning? e.g. Hoppes #9? I've heard these chemicals can cause flaking / peeling.

I believe I read somewhere about Hoppe's Elite should be fine since it is does not contain ammonia.

BTW, I'm gonna take down my PM9 tonight to examine the barrel, although I never use Hoppe's #9, but there is some funny yellowish discoloration on the barrel where the recoil rod in contact to the underside of the barrel, it is there right out of the box, noticed it when I gave it the 1st bath prior to shooting the gun.

I had thought of asking coz it looks unusual for SS, but considering it is all cosmetic so I never have called.. I will snap some pix tonight and send it over to Kahr for their comment.

[wagon]

Instead of waiting, I examine my PM9 (IB29xx Jul 2009 production). I will have to contact Kahr tech support with these pix... I do not have Hoppe's #9 at home. All I used are CLP, Otis cleaner (came with the kit) and RemOil.

1st pix is the discoloration on where the recoil spring in contact. The remaining are the Ni peeling.. looks like 3/4 of the chamber surface is affected.

http://kahrtalk.com/members/wagon-albums-wagon-album-picture61-discoloration.jpg
http://kahrtalk.com/members/wagon-albums-wagon-album-picture62-ni-peeling.jpg
http://kahrtalk.com/members/wagon-albums-wagon-album-picture64-ni-peeling-3.jpg
http://kahrtalk.com/members/wagon-albums-wagon-album-picture63-ni-peeling-2.jpg

[jocko]

that barrel needs to be replaced. I would send those photos to kahr via internet so they can see. No doubt they will replace. The discoloration in that one area on the outside is nothing at all and if it was only that I am sure they would not replace it but the peeling on the inside of the chamber is not good andit won't get any better either.. GBe patient with them, as I am told they have no replacement barrels due to a large batch being refused due to quality issues...

[wagon]

Yes, Jocko, especially not for a barrel whcih has only seen ONE range time and <200 rounds FMJ target load. we have already exchanged some e-mails, pix have bene provided to them directly, they have asked me to return the barrel to take a look at.

I don't mind the wait, if any, just wanted it be taken care of properly. I will go back to the Bond-gun for now :D

[jocko]

u can send that barrel back regular mail also, for about $3...

[wagon]

Indeed that's what they suggest... but I do plan for paying a lil more for signature and delivery confirmation ;)


u can send that barrel back regular mail also, for about $3...

[wagon]

Jocko, I took the barrel out tonight and get it ready to ship tomorrow, upon looking closer, there are 2 hairline cracks extended from one of those "discoloration spot" to the side of the lug.. seems to me to me that "discoloration spot" is some sort of impurities in the melt and the hairline crack is the boundary which started to get worse (heat and pressure from firing). I'll provide the additional pix to Kahr, too.

http://kahrtalk.com/members/wagon-albums-wagon-album-picture68-hairline-crack2.jpg



The discoloration in that one area on the outside is nothing at all and if it was only that I am sure they would not replace it .

[LDM]

As I posted earlier, I put the barrel from my new PM9 with defective plating in the chamber in the mail to Kahr on Monday. I sent with Delivery Confirmation, and checked the Post Office web page this morning; the barrel was delivered to Kahr yesterday.

I called Kahr Customer Service to check status a few minutes ago. I was advised a replacement would be going out today or tomorrow.

That was welcome news, and very good customer service given circumstances. I would characterize my two conversations with Kahr folks as polite, efficient, and professional.

[jocko]

As I posted earlier, I put the barrel from my new PM9 with defective plating in the chamber in the mail to Kahr on Monday. I sent with Delivery Confirmation, and checked the Post Office web page this morning; the barrel was delivered to Kahr yesterday.

I called Kahr Customer Service to check status a few minutes ago. I was advised a replacement would be going out today or tomorrow.

That was welcome news, and very good customer service given circumstances. I would characterize my two conversations with Kahr folks as polite, efficient, and professional.

my sources inside kahr, they will replace any barrel with flaking of the nickel finsih in feed ramp and inside the barrel. There is no two week back log of barrels either. They have plenty of new kahr barrels in stock and it is a vendor issue. That is one of those things that they themselves don't know there is a problem until the barrels are shot somewhat to cause this finish which is in the minute thousands of an inch of thickness to flake off.

Kahrs customer service has went from what was way in the past of 4 or more weeks to get a gun back to now around 6 day turn around once it hits the kahr doors. One of the best now in the industry.

[wagon]

Thanks for sharing the very encouraging news, Jocko.

[jocko]

Thanks for sharing the very encouraging news, Jocko.

I didn't live with the FARC's either, so what do I know:boink:

[Singlestack_9mm]

my sources inside kahr, they will replace any barrel with flaking of the nickel finsih in feed ramp and inside the barrel. There is no two week back log of barrels either. They have plenty of new kahr barrels in stock and it is a vendor issue. That is one of those things that they themselves don't know there is a problem until the barrels are shot somewhat to cause this finish which is in the minute thousands of an inch of thickness to flake off.

Kahrs customer service has went from what was way in the past of 4 or more weeks to get a gun back to now around 6 day turn around once it hits the kahr doors. One of the best now in the industry.

Jocko, do you know if the plating issue has been addressed on the new barrels? The reason I ask is that the new barrel they sent me 3 wks ago started flaking after the first 100 rds. They are sending me another new barrel from the batch they just received. I hope the vender has resolved the issue on the new batch of barrels.

[jocko]

that is a good question, that I cannot give you an answer on...

[deadhead1971]

To those member who has the same flaking problem with the Ni plating, do you use Ammonia based solvent in cleaning? e.g. Hoppes #9? I've heard these chemicals can cause flaking / peeling.

I believe I read somewhere about Hoppe's Elite should be fine since it is does not contain ammonia.


I use some spray nitro bore cleaner. It removes copper and metal fouling. It says it is safe on all barrels and does not contain acid. I do not see "ammonia" listed as an ingredient.

Kahr received my barrel on Thursday (10/22) according to the tracking number history. I'll give it a week and see if they call or if they respond. Seems like they are replacing the barrels.

[Singlestack_9mm]

I use some spray nitro bore cleaner. It removes copper and metal fouling. It says it is safe on all barrels and does not contain acid. I do not see "ammonia" listed as an ingredient.

Kahr received my barrel on Thursday (10/22) according to the tracking number history. I'll give it a week and see if they call or if they respond. Seems like they are replacing the barrels.

They will replace it. They will ship out a new one usally within a day after reciveing it.

[jocko]

people tell me this is a vendor issue and not an issue with any solvents. just go clena the gun the way you have in the past. They will replace any and all barrels that are flaking the finish.

just shoot it likeu stole it..

[Jim K]

Is the plating problem a cleaning issue at the factory?

[LDM]

Per earlier posts, I had returned my PM9 barrel to Kahr last week. Sent last Monday, arrived at Kahr last Wednesday.
FedEx Ground brought the replacement barrel this afternoon.
I literally went over the new barrel with a magnifying glass. Slight blemish to side of ramp at throat. Polished this out (well... mostly out) with 600 grit followed by Flitz. Look hard and you can see it. Small chip from machining in slide stop hole; a couple of light strokes with a mini-file and this was taken care of. Slight spotting inside chamber, but this rubbed out with Flitz; think it may have been dried residue from cleaning after plating.
Fit was good. Function check was good.
Not sure when I'll get to range, but with luck this week. Will report.
Stay safe.

[deadhead1971]

Sent mine last Tuesday, and Kahr got it last Thursday. Maybe I'll get something soon.

[LDM]

Slow day, so I made it to the range. Shot a box of good quality FMJ practice ammo and then shot about another 50 rounds of mixed defense ammo to see what worked. Everything worked, Ranger, CorBon DPX, Gold Dot, even some old Black Talons I had. The weapon shot everything without so much as a hiccup. My confidence in the weapon soared. :)

Got home and broke it down and dry swabbed the barrel out. No solvent, just dry patches.

When I inspected the chamber I detected what I believe is flaked or imperfect plating. I cut a q-tip in half and used the paper shaft as a "feeler". Sure enough, some rough spots deep in the chamber. You can see the affected area and feel a "edge" around the extent of the rough spot, albeit certainly no thicker than a thin piece of paper. :(

I had inspected the chamber before I shot. I had seen a bit of a line but it looked like a line of dried solvent or some liquid deposit. It was not rough nor was there the "edge" to which I refer above.

It almost looks like it could be polished out, but I am not going there.

I called Kahr about 3:45 PM and was on hold 20-30 minutes, but never got to a CS person. So I get to stew in my own juices all weekend and I'll call Monday.

To say the obvious, this is frustrating. As nice as it was to get a replacement barrel 8 days after I sent the defective one in, to get one back with the same problem is not acceptable.

So... how many barrels like this are out there with owners who have not noticed?

And the question I am really asking myself, is how many times am I going to have to send a defective part back only to get a defective part in return?

Kahr needs to get on this and fix it. There was a guy here in NC that was specializing in 6.8 AR's. He got a bad batch of plating of barrels and it bankrupted him.

[wagon]

uh oh ... pls keep us posted.

Singlestack: have you received your latest replacement yet? If so, have you shoot it and do you have the same issue with LDM's?

I'm waiting for mine.. and may be I should just wait some more.

[jocko]

not good LDM.

PM sent

[wagon]

Did they change tollers or raw material supply? New supplier (SS billet)? New Plating company? Did any of their vendors have a process change (plating bath change? equiptment change? etc...????) and without a qualification / validation process?

Something gotta have changed, somewhere, somehow ....

[500KV]

Seems that they would just have a recall for the bad, or potentially bad, barrels.
They surely have records that would pin these down; a time frame/batch # or something.
It would sure beat the process of everyone having to examine the barrels on their own. There doesn't appear to be any plating on the chamber of my guns but the ramps do and look O.K.
Function is 100% now but what's down the road?

[Singlestack_9mm]

uh oh ... pls keep us posted.

Singlestack: have you received your latest replacement yet? If so, have you shoot it and do you have the same issue with LDM's?

I'm waiting for mine.. and may be I should just wait some more.

I got mine Monday. Shot it yesterday, same problem. The chamber started flaking within 150 rds. My first replacement barrel did the same thing so I wasn't shocked. I don't know what my next move is. I'm sure they will get it resolved someday. I'm going to use the barrel I have until we know this issue is resolved.

[LDM]

Wagon, no question you are right about something changing. Regardless of what is was that changed, either there was insufficient testing or it was a latent / intermittent problem. Good bet somebody in Worcester is having a "bad day". Fair bet the root of this goes to the jump in gun sales of last year or so.

Singlestack, we're in same boat. Your comment on keeping present barrel until sure replacement available may be the way to go. Not sure, but gonna think on that.

I have a weapon that apparently functions. I inserted a round into the chamber out of curiosity, and it went in slick enough with no apparent interference. But could further flaking cause malfunction in future? This is not a range or fun gun. It is a defense weapon, so less than a high level of confidence of function means it sits at home. And for now, it will sit at home.

It irks me that I am spending time and money (e.g. ammo, range time) on a problem I did not cause. I understand 200 round break-in, and I'd shoot that much just for my confidence and familiarization regardless. But every time I replace a part, I am going to test again for my peace of mind and confidence. So best case, I get another barrel without undue delay and then drive 30 miles to and from range, shoot a box or two of ammo (including my precious defense ammo, which is harder to find and costs way more than practice ammo!), and even as much as I enjoy shooting it takes a couple of hours within the period the range is open. I figure conservatively that best case (i.e. next barrel is perfect, a rather large assumption at this stage) it has cost me at least $100. Truly I do not believe in something for nothing, or that the world owes me anything, but Kahr ought to offset this.

Will advise by post of what I learn.

[500KV]

I basically know very little about gunsmithing but it seems to me that these stainless barrels would work just as well without the plating.
Other high end guns are either blued or stainless and have the ramp and chamber polished; at least mine are.

It may be that due to the Kahr's smaller size it's necessary to have them plated in order to function correctly, but I'd like to try one without it.
Or, then again, maybe I'm just dreaming.
What do you guys think?

[LDM]

It would be interesting to hear Kahr's rationale for plating.

Corrosion resistance is the reason I hear most, but generally that is in connection with military long weapons.

Not sure I see corrosion as an overriding design concern for typical use of a PM9.

[Singlestack_9mm]

Wagon, no question you are right about something changing. Regardless of what is was that changed, either there was insufficient testing or it was a latent / intermittent problem. Good bet somebody in Worcester is having a "bad day". Fair bet the root of this goes to the jump in gun sales of last year or so.

Singlestack, we're in same boat. Your comment on keeping present barrel until sure replacement available may be the way to go. Not sure, but gonna think on that.

I have a weapon that apparently functions. I inserted a round into the chamber out of curiosity, and it went in slick enough with no apparent interference. But could further flaking cause malfunction in future? This is not a range or fun gun. It is a defense weapon, so less than a high level of confidence of function means it sits at home. And for now, it will sit at home.

It irks me that I am spending time and money (e.g. ammo, range time) on a problem I did not cause. I understand 200 round break-in, and I'd shoot that much just for my confidence and familiarization regardless. But every time I replace a part, I am going to test again for my peace of mind and confidence. So best case, I get another barrel without undue delay and then drive 30 miles to and from range, shoot a box or two of ammo (including my precious defense ammo, which is harder to find and costs way more than practice ammo!), and even as much as I enjoy shooting it takes a couple of hours within the period the range is open. I figure conservatively that best case (i.e. next barrel is perfect, a rather large assumption at this stage) it has cost me at least $100. Truly I do not believe in something for nothing, or that the world owes me anything, but Kahr ought to offset this.

Will advise by post of what I learn.


I have been on the fence weather to bench my pm9 as my primary carry because of this problem. I bought mine in march and It's had this issue since day one. I've shot aprox. 1000rds of target and defense ammo and I've never had any problems. Kahr has told me it's ok to shoot the gun with this issue. My experience tells me that It won't cause any problems, but it leaves me with a bit of doubt that I rather not have with my primary carry gun. I'm not going to waste any more ammo testing new barrels until we get a confirmed fix, defense ammo is to hard to find. Hopefully the members here with contacts inside kahr will let us know when they get this vendor issue resolved.

[Singlestack_9mm]

It would be interesting to hear Kahr's rationale for plating.

Corrosion resistance is the reason I hear most, but generally that is in connection with military long weapons.

Not sure I see corrosion as an overriding design concern for typical use of a PM9.

I have a friend thats knowledgeable about metals. He told me nickel is used in heavy wear applications, its extremely hard and durable. It's used inside engines on cylinder walls in military vehicles. I'm guessing the plating is ment to be a durability enhancement.

[wagon]

I don't know if this is at all possible other than you got someone in the profession to strip the plated coating from the barrel.


It may be that due to the Kahr's smaller size it's necessary to have them plated in order to function correctly, but I'd like to try one without it.
Or, then again, maybe I'm just dreaming.
What do you guys think?

[wagon]

Yup - if done right.. when Bimmer launched their small block V8 in their 5 series back in the early 90's, they were called "Nickelsil" plated. They were of a bad design and process, that been given them tons of problems, BMW had to replace those engines... rest is history. The V8 they replaced the Nickelsil with just run perfect.



I have a friend thats knowledgeable about metals. He told me nickel is used in heavy wear applications, its extremely hard and durable. It's used inside engines on cylinder walls in military vehicles. I'm guessing the plating is ment to be a durability enhancement.

[jocko]

I don't know if this is at all possible other than you got someone in the profession to strip the plated coating from the barrel.

makes zero sense, strip the plating. WTf. Khar has nickel plated their barrels for over 15 years and this to my knowledge is the first time this flaking has come up. Give um aliitte slack here guys, this is a vendor thing and I can see how it could have slipped through the cracks. I am sure there are still more barrels out there that will flake until this is all settled. Nickel plating is in the thousands of inches thickness, I seriously doubt and I have not read of anyone having any reliability issue with this flaking thing, so why "bench" it. Makes zero sense to me.

they will get this issue solved. I am sure it is not something that one phone call can solve with the vendors either. It could go down chain of custody even to the materials the vendor has been buying and from whom he has been buying it from to a definitely vendor issue. Kahr has told me in no uncertain stances it is a vendor issue . Doesn't relieve them of the responsibility either, but once these bad barrels get in the hands of the shooters only feed back will get them a new barrel. It is not a safety issue to insue a recall but a cosmetic issue that kahr has told me that they will take care of every returned barrel that is flaking.

I sure in hell would not bench my PM9 over that and to even think of taking the nickel plating off the barrel is even more ridiculous IMO. Not even sure it can be done.

I don't know this for a fact but I am sure other gun companies nickel plate their barrels also. this is not a cheap process either so I would think kahr is doing this not for cosmetic reasons but for better reliability and longevity reasons.

Just my two cents worth here but give this some time to work out. No doubt kahr is more concerned about it than probalby we are.

bottom line if u truly can't live with this, then indeed trade the gun off and get one that is not nickel plated. No doubt 99% of all dealers could not answer that question of "is this certain gun nickel plated barrel" either.
Stainless will rust also......

[jocko]

Wagon, no question you are right about something changing. Regardless of what is was that changed, either there was insufficient testing or it was a latent / intermittent problem. Good bet somebody in Worcester is having a "bad day". Fair bet the root of this goes to the jump in gun sales of last year or so.

Singlestack, we're in same boat. Your comment on keeping present barrel until sure replacement available may be the way to go. Not sure, but gonna think on that.

I have a weapon that apparently functions. I inserted a round into the chamber out of curiosity, and it went in slick enough with no apparent interference. But could further flaking cause malfunction in future? This is not a range or fun gun. It is a defense weapon, so less than a high level of confidence of function means it sits at home. And for now, it will sit at home.

It irks me that I am spending time and money (e.g. ammo, range time) on a problem I did not cause. I understand 200 round break-in, and I'd shoot that much just for my confidence and familiarization regardless. But every time I replace a part, I am going to test again for my peace of mind and confidence. So best case, I get another barrel without undue delay and then drive 30 miles to and from range, shoot a box or two of ammo (including my precious defense ammo, which is harder to find and costs way more than practice ammo!), and even as much as I enjoy shooting it takes a couple of hours within the period the range is open. I figure conservatively that best case (i.e. next barrel is perfect, a rather large assumption at this stage) it has cost me at least $100. Truly I do not believe in something for nothing, or that the world owes me anything, but Kahr ought to offset this.

Will advise by post of what I learn.

u should always test out when a part is changed. Not sure the 200 round thing comes into play with this barrel change either. but I would definitely test it out. Same thing with even a change of recoil springs or magazine springs.

[LDM]

I bought mine in march and It's had this issue since day one. I've shot aprox. 1000rds of target and defense ammo and I've never had any problems. Kahr has told me it's ok to shoot the gun with this issue. My experience tells me that It won't cause any problems...

"ok to shoot" that is my first twitch also. The notion of waiting until there is some assurance of a fix is starting to set in my mind. I look at it this way: at least if I keep the barrel until there is a fix, I have a complete weapon that in limited testing functions well.

But the flaking just ain't right and this is a premium product. Common sense says they have to fix, replace, or in some way mitigate.

The backstory on this must be a whopper; bet you a dollar there's a lawyer in there somewhere.

Are there any reports of other Kahr models having this problem? And if not, why? Is the PM9 barrel that different than the other models?

[jocko]

"ok to shoot" that is my first twitch also. The notion of waiting until there is some assurance of a fix is starting to set in my mind. I look at it this way: at least if I keep the barrel until there is a fix, I have a complete weapon that in limited testing functions well.

But the flaking just ain't right and this is a premium product. Common sense says they have to fix, replace, or in some way mitigate.

The backstory on this must be a whopper; bet you a dollar there's a lawyer in there somewhere.

Are there any reports of other Kahr models having this problem? And if not, why? Is the PM9 barrel that different than the other models?

different plating vendor. these companies don't put all their eggs in one basket and it is also not a pandemic issue either. Last conversation I had with a kahr insider, he told me they have not had 2 dozen barrels reported to them with flaking issues. Not to say they ain't out there either and when it happens to you, it is never a good thing. You can get mad, pound the table or also just work with kahr and they will make it right. Don't expect a reimburement of money for ur inconvience, that ain't gonna happen but I have no doubt all flaking barrels will be replaced. I have had vehicle recalls on about every vehicle I have owned. never got a dime from the mfg-er for it, let along any inconvenice either, just the defective part replaced and I had to get my vehicle to the dealer etc.

I remember when Ruger had their lcp recall this year on over 50,000 lcp's, they started out at first sending the rebuilt lcp's back with a ruger lcp hat and a spare magazine, then not to long after that. no hat, then later on no hat or magazine. Many owners back then never even sent their lcp's in for the recall as it was working perfect and they felt OK with the way it was.

I am not totally sure even how they would be able to detect a flaking barrel issue, if when it left the factory,it was not flaking. Not sure inspection can catch that type of thing. Probably only rounds down range... If ur old enough to remember the days of chrome bumpers, alot of them the chrome flaked/chipped off and back then there was no such thing as a recall. again i am not defending kahr, the vendors or who ever on this, but it has happened, we will get through it, again it is not pandemic. Because yours now is not flaking, is that a need to worry down the road??? A question that only you can answer. No sense worrying about something that has not happened. Just shoot it like u stole it . I would hate to guess how many hundreds of thousands kahrs there are out there that up until now has never had this flaking issue. percentages tell me your kahr is OK..

[wagon]

LOL... I wish we did steal it so that we can just throw it away when we we got done with it ... too bad we paid real money for ours :D


. Just shoot it like u stole it . ..

[jocko]

LOL... I wish we did steal it so that we can just throw it away when we we got done with it ... too bad we paid real money for ours :D

real money for all 3 of my kahrs....:boink:

[wagon]

who doesn't? :7:


real money for all 3 of my kahrs....:boink:

[LDM]

different plating vendor. ...not had 2 dozen barrels reported to them with flaking issues. ...how they would be able to detect a flaking barrel issue, if when it left the factory,it was not flaking. ...If ur old enough

RE: plating vendor
I can easily see how the lowest common denominator in this chain of events could be the cause. Some guy (or gal) on the production floor misses something and BINGO! It can also be some pencil necked guy in the front office trying something to cut pennies.

RE 2 dozen barrels
The fact that two folks who bought at different times, Singlestack in March and me in October, get bad barrels and then get bad replacement barrels makes me believe the problem is more widespread, but not yet noticed. But only a small number reported is not especially surprising. Being on this forum is proof enough of our above average interest and knowledge in shooting. We shoot as much as we can because we like it and try to widen our shooting knowledge. I think the average gun owner buys, shoots a bit, and then it is in a drawer as insurance; such a person might not even recognize the problem if they saw it. 50 years from now, somebody will have a unfired or shot very little Kahr, and "discover' a flaky barrel. Also I don't know how many barrels are processed at a time, but I suspect it is more than a couple of dozen.
That said, my initial experience with Kahr customer service was very positive and I do have faith it will be made right. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
“Of all the gun joints in all the towns in all the world, a flaky barrel walks into mine.” Sorry to twist your words Bogie.

RE:detect... factory
I visually inspected before firing and saw nothing conclusive, and only saw evidence after firing. So I don't know how you detect this short of test firing barrels from each each batch. Given circumstances, if there is no other way (heat? pressure?), sample test firing may be warranted. Regardless you know this is being discussed at Kahr and somebody is trying something.

RE: old enough
Yeah, unfortunately, I am old enough. I'm pre-Sputnik. :biggrin1:

[wagon]

Bull's eye! ;) A temporary deviation in their QA process is called for. They should/could consider to implement a temporary procedure until the issue is permanently resolved. Such as some x% of barrels per batch to go thru 200 rounds test firing. No peeling => release to production. Peeling = reject.

Is Kahr ISO or QS certified in their production (not paperwork) process?



RE:detect... factory
I visually inspected before firing and saw nothing conclusive, and only saw evidence after firing. So I don't know how you detect this short of test firing barrels from each each batch. Given circumstances, if there is no other way (heat? pressure?), sample test firing may be warranted. Regardless you know this is being discussed at Kahr and somebody is trying something.
:

[jocko]

Bull's eye! ;) A temporary deviation in their QA process is called for. They should/could consider to implement a temporary procedure until the issue is permanently resolved. Such as some x% of barrels per batch to go thru 200 rounds test firing. No peeling => release to production. Peeling = reject.

Is Kahr ISO or QS certified in their production (not paperwork) process?

we don't know if they are not doing that now either. I feel the barrels are getting scrutinized far more than they were 3 months or so ago.. I feel kahr is on top of this to and some will just have to wade through this with kahr also..

[jocko]

I would have to agree with u on that. there are more than 2 dozen barrels out their flaking, How many??We to are guessing. from march to October does notnecessarily mean that all produced in between that period are indeed bad either. Lot of "guessing" on our part but I feel kahr knows exactly what is going on. have not read this happening on any cw series or MK series or K series or even P series, so that tells me it could be possably one or two plating vendors and not indicative of the entire line The cw series is their biggest production gun followed by the PM models..

also doesn't mean it could not be in those lines either but until they start showing up in numbers, in the cw and MK and K lines, then we should assume all is ok there.

[mr surveyor]

given that the CW series is a different barrel altogether (conventional rifling vs. polygonal rifling) than all other Kahr barrels, would they be sent to the same sub-contractors as the other barrels? I suppose they could be, but you (jocko) did suiggest there may be more than one plating shop doing the work.

surv

[jocko]

and I merely suggested that, I don't know that either. I know many companies have more thanoe vendor. I would not think conventiona/vs polygonal would have a thing to do with plating staying on or off. the MK and K series is not conventional or the P series.

again we are all speculating, myself included..

[mr surveyor]

we do, as gun owners, tend to make some pretty wild assumptions sometimes don't we? I know I do:)

I was surprised years ago to find that the major manufacturers actually farmed out a large percentage of their parts. It probably does help contain costs considerably.

If this plating problem is from an outsourced vendor, I wonder if they have had the same problems reported from other manufacturers products, and not just isolated to a few Kahr barrels?


surv (hoping my CW9 never develops a "complexion problem")

[jocko]

I basically know very little about gunsmithing but it seems to me that these stainless barrels would work just as well without the plating.
Other high end guns are either blued or stainless and have the ramp and chamber polished; at least mine are.

It may be that due to the Kahr's smaller size it's necessary to have them plated in order to function correctly, but I'd like to try one without it.
Or, then again, maybe I'm just dreaming.
What do you guys think?

think kahr barrels are stainless steel. They call their barrels from lothar proprietary steel, what ever that means, .

[500KV]

I dunno..I just read this blurp on their website.

"The pistols of Kahr are lock-breeched with stainless steel, polygonally rifled barrels mating to slides sans bushing."

[jocko]

I dunno..I just read this blurp on their website.

"The pistols of Kahr are lock-breeched with stainless steel, polygonally rifled barrels mating to slides sans bushing."

but the kahr site says "high tensile strength proprietary steel". No argument on myside here either, I would have thought had it been stainless, they would have included that in their description. Lothar has a reputation of making one of the finest button rifled barrels in the world, course they only send the billet to Kahr already button rifled and then kahr does all the maching process and then send the barrels out to be nickel plated. But I am going to check that out, who knows proprietary might be a "code" word for stainless..

have since found out that kahr barrels are not stainless...

[deadhead1971]

I am going to call Kahr today, not to bug them, but get an update.

Kahr received LDM's barrel on Oct 21 ,and he has been sent a barrel. Kahr received my barrel on Oct 22, and I have not received anything yet.

I'll keep you posted. Luckily I have an LCP in the mean time.:madgrin:

[deadhead1971]

Called Kahr and immediately got someone on the phone.:)

They are out of barrels and are waiting on a new shipment. :w00t:

They will send me one as soon as they get some more in. How long? Not sure--probably a week or 2.

[wagon]

Deadhead, may be we better off give them an extra day to test fire 200 rounds before sending it out to us? :rolleyes:


They will send me one as soon as they get some more in. How long? Not sure--probably a week or 2.

[LDM]

I called Kahr this morning and went over the history and present situation (i.e second barrel flaking).

The solution proposed was to send my barrel back for a new one, however they are out of barrels right now and I was told it might be a couple of weeks before they got "another batch in". There was no definitive time stated when a barrel would be available.

The CS rep made a distinction as to Customer Service having barrels and Production having barrels; I understood him to say Production has barrels now and Customer Service does not. He said this innocently enough and off the cuff.

He obviously had not thought through the point that myself and other Kahr owners were being delayed in getting a defective part replaced for the sake of continued production of new product. I understand the economic imperative of a manufacturer routing parts to Production over Customer Service, but frankly I have a problem with this. Of course I know of no law that says they have to favor service over production either.

I asked if there was any assurance that the problem with flaky barrels was solved. I asked if this was an extensive problem. The fellow I spoke to was nice enough, but could not say. I believe he simply did not know, as opposed to purposely holding info back. He said sometimes this happens.

I asked a couple of times for emphasis, and was told explicitly there was no problem shooting the weapon and it would be fully functional. I would have felt better about that if I had been impressed the fellow knew everything going on and had a more definitive statement (e.g. we have found the problem and fixed it).

In short, I got courteous service but no solution nor impression that they were on top of the problem and it was fixed. It just was not a confidence inspiring experience, albeit it may have simply been the person I spoke to was not informed.


It pains me to report this, but that is what happened. I need to fall back and think about this a bit.

[jocko]

the gun is totally safe to shoot, that is a no brainer. they will replace ur barrel, that is a no brainer. The fact that u got two in a row would not set well with me either but once again I just do know either how they test or would test for this, and more than likely not ALL PM9 barrels going out the door are defective--I think. I am sure the person is about as unqualified to give u any more inforamtion that you got. Some of the CS people are phone answers and that is it. LDM indeed fall back and think about it. It is not like it does not work, it is not like kahr is not going to take care of u either, but if it pains you that bad, man , just trade it in on a gun that indeed pleases u. This is not a life and death situation either, there are plenty of other companies who make small 9's.

I'm not saying the above to be a smart ass either, but WE can't speed this up any further, and I just don't think kahr is putting u off either. Patience is golden.

again sorry We are also here to help to, not antagonize...

[deadhead1971]

I DO NOT think it is chance that LDM got 2 bad barrels. I think this is the tip of the iceberg. There seems to be a 2009 production run with these issues. Mine was a IB07XX PM9 from June 2009. Are there any other models besides the PM9 that has had this issue?

Maybe Kahr does this, but they sould select a few random samples from the barrel batches and shoot a few hundred rounds through them and see. Kahr may not have gotten a bunch of barrels returned yet, but as word gets out and folks pay attention and check, I bet there will be a lot more returned.

The counter argument to all of this is that this is a non-issue, and we are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[jocko]

I DO NOT think it is chance that LDM got 2 bad barrels. I think this is the tip of the iceberg. There seems to be a 2009 production run with these issues. Mine was a IB07XX PM9 from June 2009. Are there any other models besides the PM9 that has had this issue?

Maybe Kahr does this, but they sould select a few random samples from the barrel batches and shoot a few hundred rounds through them and see. Kahr may not have gotten a bunch of barrels returned yet, but as word gets out and folks pay attention and check, I bet there will be a lot more returned.

The counter argument to all of this is that this is a non-issue, and we are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

theories could be true :phone: They do test fire every gun, how many rounds I don't know or if they pull one every 100 or so guns and do more testing, again just speculation.

[wagon]

Mine is IB (July 2009).

Jocko: I would think it is more fair for us who have this issue to say that our (affected) guns are "totally functional so far", but I couldn't imagine anyone person can step up and conoclusively say "the gun is totally safe to shoot, that is a no brainer".. if the product is out of spec then it is out of spec, when it happen, performance and the safety of the product can be / may be impaired. That impairement may happen in 1000 rounds later, or 100 rounds later, or "next round" whatever the circumstances can be... which indeed, can be "life and death" situation.

Mine has only a single range time, and a total of < 200 rounds. It was a pleasant shooting experience with it, I did like it very much don't take me wrong, I even miss it! BUT ... will you COMFORTABLY fly a plane when you know the coating in the engine is peeling/flacking? This is a friearm we are talking about.

It is not we don't work with Kahr on this issue, we are, but we don't expect to be their QA of their reaplcement parts... an old qulaity philosophy goes a long way: "DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, and EVERYTIME".


I DO NOT think it is chance that LDM got 2 bad barrels. I think this is the tip of the iceberg. There seems to be a 2009 production run with these issues. Mine was a IB07XX PM9 from June 2009. Are there any other models besides the PM9 that has had this issue?

Maybe Kahr does this, but they sould select a few random samples from the barrel batches and shoot a few hundred rounds through them and see. Kahr may not have gotten a bunch of barrels returned yet, but as word gets out and folks pay attention and check, I bet there will be a lot more returned.

The counter argument to all of this is that this is a non-issue, and we are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[jocko]

u might be right to. not going to argue "wording" with you...

[LDM]

My barrel problem has been on my mind and I called Kahr back today to take it up again. Spoke to a different guy and he was as courteous and correct as the other guys I have spoken to, but he got more engaged and I got more info.

He said the flaking was not that common and for me to get two in a row was really bad luck. He promised to try to get me a replacement sooner than later. He apologized for the inconvenience.

He said it was a cosmetic issue and the weapon is safe to shoot and fully functional. Nonetheless he said anything less than perfect was not what I paid for, nor what Kahr wants. He said Kahr wants to produce and sell a high quality item. He said things would be made right.

This last statement is really what I wanted to hear and what should be said in circumstances like this. This guy was genuinely sincere and clearly wanted to make it right. We all know it was not this guy's fault (he's customer service, not a barrel maker or plater) but he took the responsibility for his company.

When I get this kind of reaction I appreciate it. It makes it easier to be more patience and give more grace. We'll wait & see, but I feel better about things.

When I get a barrel, I'll report.

[500KV]

He said it was a cosmetic issue and the weapon is safe to shoot and fully functional.

LDM, How did that statement strike you?
If the plating is for cosmetics only and if the gun is "fully functional" without it, why do they put it on there to start with?
I've never seen what I would consider a pretty handgun barrel have you?

[mr surveyor]

I've never seen what I would consider a pretty handgun barrel have you?



HERESEY! WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT AT ONCE!


surv:)

[500KV]

HERESEY! WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT AT ONCE!


surv:)

Duly noted surv..Should'a said sexy.:o

[mr surveyor]

hhmmmmm:)

[LDM]

LDM, How did that statement strike you?
If the plating is for cosmetics only and if the gun is "fully functional" without it, why do they put it on there to start with?
I've never seen what I would consider a pretty handgun barrel have you?

In the context that the weapon will function and is safe, then the flaking can be termed cosmetic.

I think the reason it is plated is for a functional reason: corrosion resistance, etc.

Most important... I came away with strong feeling they intend to make it right. For whatever reason, two barrels in a row struck a nerve with the guy I talked to. Sometimes over half a battle is just getting folks attention, and yesterday I got lucky.

[jocko]

LDM, How did that statement strike you?
If the plating is for cosmetics only and if the gun is "fully functional" without it, why do they put it on there to start with?
I've never seen what I would consider a pretty handgun barrel have you?

give longer life to the barrel. if done right they should last. bluing is cosmetic also but it sure looks nice when it is done right. They didn't nickel plate the barrels for "pretty Looks" actually some have come forward and stated that they didn't think their barrels on their kahrs were plated even and kahr has plated their barrels from day one. If we can remember when our guns were new they were not shinny like nickel or chrome would look but one could certainly polish that barrel to a shinny finsih. I actually never knew that kahr nickel palted their barrels until we started seeing this flaking and I was able to check with kahr to see about how long they have been doing it. It suprised me. I am certain there are benefits from nickel plating other than cosmetic. some wrote on here about BMW years back coming out with nickelsil cylinder and they had issues right at the start but finally got the process corrected. That certainly was not a cosmetic thing so I feel durability has to play very strong in nickel plating.

google up: nickel plating, I think one can learn alot from that. I just did . Very interesting reading..

[jocko]

Was readng about the Jerico put out by IWI Isralie Weapons Industries, I believe this was the magnum research model also called the Jerico 941. anyhow their description gives "chrome lined polygonal rifle barrel. "

[LDM]

I got to the range on Friday to shoot my new (3rd) barrel.

50 rounds Speer lawman 147 fmj (good stuff!) and 50 rounds Blazer Brass 115 gr, as well as a dozen of so of Winchester Ranger 147 gr. No problems whatsoever. I'd estimate my total rounds through this weapon to now be 400-450. A very noticeable difference to me in overall smoothness of operation.

Moreover, when I got back and cleaned the weapon, no sign of flaking inside or out on the barrel. No particular problems cleaning.

I think (and hope) this gets me past this problem.

A couple of observations and thoughts:
The latest barrel (#3) was very different in appearance to original and #2. The first two had a more shiny finish. #3 was obviously a chrome finish but more like what you might see on quality hand tools. Hard to verbalize but it seemed more robust and substantial.
The crown of #3 was visibly different. Different angle.
The outside cuts at the chamber were also different.
And notably, the hood was fully dimensioned and had to be slightly stoned to fit. This was not all bad as it makes for a better fit at the end of the day.
Knowing what I know now, brand new out of the box this weapon would benefit from a tune-up (i.e. thorough cleaning and lube, light stoning, breaking/radiusing edges, lapping slide) before it is ever fired. I know C&S offers this kind of service but they are too pricey and schedule backlogged. This is an opportunity for gunsmiths (or Kahr!) to offer a service and carve out a niche for themselves. It'd be worth $100-$200, just in saved break-in ammo and aggravation.

Bottom line: it worked & did not flake in 100+ rounds.

I want to shoot this weapon some more, but I am confident enough now to carry for defense.

Stay safe.

[jocko]

LDM. glad that you knew about to tweek some little things on ur 3rd barrel even. Most kahrs really don't need that stuff either, but I am assuming that you only sent in your barrel for replacement and not the slide also to make sure it was fitted correctly. More than likely (hopefully) kahr wolud have caught that in house and did exactly like u did. If it fits tight now, it will in time loosen up a tad and that should be one hell of a nice working gun. there is really no need to spend IMO 100 to $200 bucks to get a gun runnng right. What C & S does is just really polsih the hell out of the gun and that itself smooths things up. I had my PM9 worked on by them and knowing what I know now, I wold never do it again. 80% waste of money and 7 months wait. Actually IMO the more rounds down range the better and smoother these kahrs operate. MY PM9 seems like it is running on glass. I can shoot it dry, wet, makes no difference... It was like that when I let C & s have it also and I could not really see and feel alot of difference when I got it back, other than my wallet was empty of "qlot" of money...

[unclenunzie]

Just a quick reply to this thread. My new PM9, flawless to just under 400 rounds, has the barrel plating issue. I sent an email to Kahr support for info.

[wagon]

Unclenunzie, surely not the best news of all, but quite surely that Kahr would provide you with approrpiate and necessary support.

Send them some pix to give them some idea on your specific issue, and go from there. Some of us had a plating issue recently and Kahr took care of us by replacing the barrel. I cannot speak for others, but my original barrel was just like yours: functionally flawless sans barrel plating.

Should Kahr suggest to you that a barrel replacement would be provided, then from my experience (read: YMMV), I suggest to return the complete gun to them for the reasons of "guaranteed fitment" and they can conduct some testing firing before returning to you, too.

Inconvenience no doubt, and will also mean a repeat of the minimum 200 rds break-in process, but the bottom line is: Kahr CustomerService is helpful, and Kahr will do the necessary to resolve quality issue(s).

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

(and be prepared for "PM in-bound" from members.. :D)

[deadhead1971]

Uncle---read this: http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/527-replacement-barrel-frunstration-diappointment.html

This explains what happened to some of us when we got the replacement barrels.

When did you get your PM9? This year? Mine is from June 2009.

[unclenunzie]

Uncle---read this: http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/527-replacement-barrel-frunstration-diappointment.html

This explains what happened to some of us when we got the replacement barrels.

When did you get your PM9? This year? Mine is from June 2009.

Yep, read all the plating threads, and refreshed on this one just now. I bought mine in October 2009 NIB. I got an email back from Kahr service after writing in details about my plating in chamber and a little on the ramp. They said it is purely cosmetic but they will be happy to replace it if I send the old one back. Given all the troubles I've read about with fitment and the fact mine is 100% functional so far, I'm not hurrying to send it. I may simply keep an eye on it as I continue to shoot it, and decide from there. I don't want to go through the hassles, not after paying ~700 and just proofing my other little darling, LCP, who got sent twice for her NIB repairs :eek:

I did re-email Kahr again just to be sure it's truly cosmetic only. I mean I kinda believe it, I just wish someone would say it with authority.

[deadhead1971]

I have an LCP too. I got it in April and have 300 rounds through it. Are you over here? elsiepeaforum.com (http://elsiepeaforum.com/forum/index.php)

Kahr said the same thing--it's cosmetic. However, once metal starts to flake and peel, it will only get worse. They replaced the barrel no questions asked. I was not having any problems but I just did not like the flaking inside the chamber. I have 160 rounds through the new barrel.

[jocko]

Yep, read all the plating threads, and refreshed on this one just now. I bought mine in October 2009 NIB. I got an email back from Kahr service after writing in details about my plating in chamber and a little on the ramp. They said it is purely cosmetic but they will be happy to replace it if I send the old one back. Given all the troubles I've read about with fitment and the fact mine is 100% functional so far, I'm not hurrying to send it. I may simply keep an eye on it as I continue to shoot it, and decide from there. I don't want to go through the hassles, not after paying ~700 and just proofing my other little darling, LCP, who got sent twice for her NIB repairs :eek:

I did re-email Kahr again just to be sure it's truly cosmetic only. I mean I kinda believe it, I just wish someone would say it with authority.

cosmetic only but that being said SEND IT BACK. They will replace it with a new barrel. no questions asked. You can just send the barrel and can even send that regular mail for about $5. Yours was one in a batch taht got out and they are taking care of all who request it. One thing for certain,,,,IT AIN'T GONNA GET BETTER...:smash:

[unclenunzie]

cosmetic only but that being said SEND IT BACK. They will replace it with a new barrel. no questions asked. You can just send the barrel and can even send that regular mail for about $5. Yours was one in a batch taht got out and they are taking care of all who request it. One thing for certain,,,,IT AIN'T GONNA GET BETTER...:smash:

Yeah, I'm gonna send it today. It can have a nice vacation and spa treatment in Worcester while I'm doing the same in Florida! Maybe we'll both get new tans.

Happy Holidays,

unclenunzie

[unclenunzie]

I have an LCP too. I got it in April and have 300 rounds through it. Are you over here? elsiepeaforum.com (http://elsiepeaforum.com/forum/index.php)

Kahr said the same thing--it's cosmetic. However, once metal starts to flake and peel, it will only get worse. They replaced the barrel no questions asked. I was not having any problems but I just did not like the flaking inside the chamber. I have 160 rounds through the new barrel.

My situation too, based on all the comments and recommendations I decided not to wait and sent the barrel today. Used UPS with insurance, I know post office is ok, just didn't feel comfortable.

Guess Elsie Pea will be my only buddy (bud-ette?) until her big baby brother returns from the Great White North.

Yes I am unclenunzie on elsiepeaforum too.

[jocko]

My situation too, based on all the comments and recommendations I decided not to wait and sent the barrel today. Used UPS with insurance, I know post office is ok, just didn't feel comfortable.

Guess Elsie Pea will be my only buddy (bud-ette?) until her big baby brother returns from the Great White North.

Yes I am unclenunzie on elsiepeaforum too.
I hope you do realize that it was 100% perfectly legal to send your barrel back to kahr via U. s. Postal system. I trust the Postal systme more than UPS..

[unclenunzie]

by post office, I just prefer UPS. If it were to get lost, I'd rather work with UPS to find it than a psuedo-gov't agency.

But this is all academic, the barrel will get there and a new one will come to me soon after. And all will be as it should be :)

[coctailer]

So is this barrel issue limited to the PM9?

Are there any cases of it happening in the P45, PM40, P380, etc????

[deadhead1971]

The only folks here on this forum who have had this problem own PM9s. I am not aware of this with any other model.

[IEDmagnet]

Sorry to let you know, I stumbled on this forum because I was researching a problem I'm having on my MK9, I suspect the barrels are interchangeable, so nonetheless it seems to be an issue with the 3 inch 9MM barrels.

[unclenunzie]

Happy New Year.

I got home today and my replacement barrel was waiting for me. Looks identical to my original but of course without the flaking nickel spots. It had a small burr on the corner of hood, and when I ran my fingernail across it hard, it went away. I think it was a little extra plating on the corner and it broke away. Seems to fit fine into the slide, though I wish I had a nice closeup photo of a NIB PM9 with barrel in lockup. I expect to run some boxes of ammo this weekend, should be fun!

I sent it on 22-Dec-09 and it was waiting for me today 1-Jan-10. Today is a holiday so at worst it arrived yesterday.

[unclenunzie]

Ran 200 PRVI through my PM9 with replacement barrel (for plating issue). She continues to be 100% reliable, not a single issue now, not a single issue before, or ever. Took her home, field stripped and cleaned. And cleaned and cleaned and cleaned until my fingers were sore. There are a few spots in the rifling that look to my unaided eye as possible plating off. I don't think it's fouling since I used hoppes #9 at least 4 times.

I really don't want to send this brand new replacement barrel back again. I mean I will if I have to but this time it will be on Kahr's dime, and I would like a little consideration for the ammo I am expending re-proofing this weapon. Maybe one reason the plating issue has been termed 'cosmetic', is to leave this exercise as optional. I could be wrong about that :)

I still love my PM9, works great, I just find it annoying that a high-end carry piece can't be made "perfect" NIB or with a bounce to Worcester.

end of rant.

unclenunzie

[wagon]

Unclenunzie: I feel for you... and I know I'm not the only one.


I really don't want to send this brand new replacement barrel back again. I mean I will if I have to but this time it will be on Kahr's dime, and I would like a little consideration for the ammo I am expending re-proofing this weapon. Maybe one reason the plating issue has been termed 'cosmetic', is to leave this exercise as optional. I could be wrong about that :)

I still love my PM9, works great, I just find it annoying that a high-end carry piece can't be made "perfect" NIB or with a bounce to Worcester.

[deadhead1971]

I have 360 rounds through my new barrel and no peeling or flaking yet.

[unclenunzie]

I spoke today with customer support. They are to send me a shipping label for fedex. I made a point about the ammo expenditures for proofing the old barrel/gun, new barrel, and another one if I decide to actually ship it back. On this point, I paraphrase them but they said essentially, the plating is for appearance. At my request, they said they would check to see if a new barrel could be shot tested before shipping out to me. I would love to have a barrel with plating that stays plated as deadhead1971 has got.

From talking with the service rep, I got the feeling very few people ask for relacements for plating issues, but when they do ask it gets taken care of. Almost like it's somewhat novel that people ask for them at all...

unclenunzie

[xzhync]

Here are some photos of the nickel coat peeling inside the barrel chamber. I will send to Kahr and see what they say.

It's hard to see but it's right inside the chamber throat.

Ok, I have had my PM9 for approx. 1 week now. It is serial number IB35xx so I am guessing that it was made in late October or Early November of 2009. I don't really understand Kahr's serial number system, but from the chart on Glocktalk I believe the October/November time-frame is close.

Today, I read this entire thread and decided to check my barrel for flaking. I have shot a total of 250 rounds through the pistol so far. During the first session I shot 150 rds. I shot another 100 rounds last Tuesday. I figured if I am going to get any flaking I should notice something by now. I did an inspection with a flash-light. At first I didn't notice anything, but upon closer inspection of the chamber I noticed a couple of very small spots 1/2 to 2/3 of the way into the chamber. There is 1 spot at approx. 12:00 and the other is at approx. 9:00. Again, both spots are pretty deep. They are also very small, each one is less than the size of the head of a pin. I hate to send the barrel in for replacement due to time/cost. Also, I hate to have to spend the money to buy ammo to prove out a new barrel. Anyway, my question (especially to LDM, Deadhead1971 and Singlestack_9mm) is whether or not I can expect the pealing to continue. In other words, in your experience, once it starts is it a foredrawn conclusion that the pealing will continue? I worked with the barrel somewhat tonight. I ran a brass brush through it approx 50 to 75 times and then re-polished the chamber with flitz. I did not notice any change in the two spots. They stayed the same size and shape. Is it possible that the current spots will just stay the same? If they do, then I think it would be ok. I mean, in the first 250 rds. I had no issues at all. Of course, I can go shoot another 50 or 100 rounds and then re-inspect, but I was hoping the folks who have experienced this problem could give me some insight. Currently, my slide is back at Kahr to have night-sights installed, so if I were to send in the barrel now would be a good time.

I would greatly appreciate thoughts and advice on this one.

[jocko]

just keep an eye on those two spots. If they are that small, you are probalby doing the right thing and just leaving it alone. At this time you are also not even sure it is flaking, so just keep an eye on it. kahr will replace your barrel any time down the road if it starts to flake. It will not effect reliability or your accuracy. What flaking we have seen on this forum has come off the feed ramp and inside the chamber more than any other area. try a good paste bore cleaner, you might just suprise yourself and those spots might just dissapear also--and then maybe not but a wire brush sometimes won't touch some fouling...

[ziggygunsmith]

Good morning to everyone, In am new to the forum, but not new to kahr pistols. i own about 25 kahr pistols, they are my favoriT handguns. i have been buying kahr arms pistols and longuns for 20 yrs. plus. I been a gunsmith for almost 50 yrs. Jocko got it rite, polish bbl. and it will be good as new, it may be a bbl. that was added . in any case a highly polished bbl. will do as well as any other process. like any other tool or firearm keep it well cleaned and lubricated. TALK TO YOU MEMBERS SOON. ziggy

[xzhync]

just keep an eye on those two spots. If they are that small, you are probalby doing the right thing and just leaving it alone. At this time you are also not even sure it is flaking, so just keep an eye on it. kahr will replace your barrel any time down the road if it starts to flake. It will not effect reliability or your accuracy. What flaking we have seen on this forum has come off the feed ramp and inside the chamber more than any other area. try a good paste bore cleaner, you might just suprise yourself and those spots might just dissapear also--and then maybe not but a wire brush sometimes won't touch some fouling...

Jocko, can you recommend the brand name of a good paste bore cleaner?

[deadhead1971]

XZ-

I did not notice flaking on the first barrel until around 400 rounds. In my new barrel, there is some noticable discoloration inside the chamber throat. Some areas are dark(black carbon) while other areas are lighter in color (more nickel or silver looking). But I don't see any flaking; it's all smooth.

Are they carbon discoloration spots? With flaking, the top layer of metal comes off, and there is a hole or crater, eventhough it's about a 1/1000 of an inch. I could take a small screwdriver or other piece of metal (threading needle) and run it along the flaking area, and I could feel the difference in surface elevation, for lack of a better word. So the question for you is, can you feel the spots as I described above or are they just color blemishes where there is no flaking?

Will it get worse? Probably. As soon as I noticed it, I sent it in. It was a 2 week turn around. Look at the very first picture on the first page of this thread. Look how bad it is. You have to know that it didn't look like that when it first started to flake.


Flaking will not be circles, dots, or symmetrical shapes. The flaking photos show oblong, unsymmetrical, polygonal jagged ovals shapes.

[jocko]

Jocko, can you recommend the brand name of a good paste bore cleaner?

J.B from brownells is probably the best paste bore cleaner you will ever have. I had never heard of it until about 4 years ago and a old time "good" smitty told me one day looking down the bore of one of my guns that the barrel needed some tending to. I told him I use Hoppe's #9 all the time. His comment was that is good stuff, but not good enough. I bought some J.B and it cleaned stuff out of my barrel that I just thought was supposed to be in there. My barrels to me always looked good but with J. B. it certainly made them better looking.

I do not use it every time I clean my guns and when u put J.B inside the barrel it needs to sit alittle to work right and I get in a hurry to often and #9 it and it keeps it clean but whej I realy do a detail cleaning, it is J. B. all the way for me.

YMMV

[jocko]

Good morning to everyone, In am new to the forum, but not new to kahr pistols. i own about 25 kahr pistols, they are my favoriT handguns. i have been buying kahr arms pistols and longuns for 20 yrs. plus. I been a gunsmith for almost 50 yrs. Jocko got it rite, polish bbl. and it will be good as new, it may be a bbl. that was added . in any case a highly polished bbl. will do as well as any other process. like any other tool or firearm keep it well cleaned and lubricated. TALK TO YOU MEMBERS SOON. ziggy

wow this is a guy we need to keep . 25 kahrs, you have to have a wealth of knowledge on kahrs, so stay with us and add to the excitement of this great forum. again welcome aboard...:popcorn:

[jocko]

XZ-

I did not notice flaking on the first barrel until around 400 rounds. In my new barrel, there is some noticable discoloration inside the chamber throat. Some areas are dark(black carbon) while other areas are lighter in color (more nickel or silver looking). But I don't see any flaking; it's all smooth.

Are they carbon discoloration spots? With flaking, the top layer of metal comes off, and there is a hole or crater, eventhough it's about a 1/1000 of an inch. I could take a small screwdriver or other piece of metal (threading needle) and run it along the flaking area, and I could feel the difference in surface elevation, for lack of a better word. So the question for you is, can you feel the spots as I described above or are they just color blemishes where there is no flaking?

Will it get worse? Probably. As soon as I noticed it, I sent it in. It was a 2 week turn around. Look at the very first picture on the first page of this thread. Look how bad it is. You have to know that it didn't look like that when it first started to flake.


Flaking will not be circles, dots, or symmetrical shapes. The flaking photos show oblong, unsymmetrical, polygonal jagged ovals shapes.

about what flaking will look like, Never thought of it that way..:ohmy:

[xzhync]

XZ-

I did not notice flaking on the first barrel until around 400 rounds. In my new barrel, there is some noticable discoloration inside the chamber throat. Some areas are dark(black carbon) while other areas are lighter in color (more nickel or silver looking). But I don't see any flaking; it's all smooth.

Are they carbon discoloration spots? With flaking, the top layer of metal comes off, and there is a hole or crater, eventhough it's about a 1/1000 of an inch. I could take a small screwdriver or other piece of metal (threading needle) and run it along the flaking area, and I could feel the difference in surface elevation, for lack of a better word. So the question for you is, can you feel the spots as I described above or are they just color blemishes where there is no flaking?

Will it get worse? Probably. As soon as I noticed it, I sent it in. It was a 2 week turn around. Look at the very first picture on the first page of this thread. Look how bad it is. You have to know that it didn't look like that when it first started to flake.


Flaking will not be circles, dots, or symmetrical shapes. The flaking photos show oblong, unsymmetrical, polygonal jagged ovals shapes.

Yes, I can feel the difference. I feel a "rough spot" and a small amount of resistance when I run an object over the area. Also, the spots are not circular. I just used the "head of a pin" comparison because I couldn't think of anything else that small. One of the spots is sort of like the number '8'. I studied your photo's and even though my flaking is smaller, it is definitely flaking of the nickel coating.

I appreciate your feedback. Even though I am hoping it won't continue, I am sort of expecting that it will. I know Kahr says it is cosmetic, but I can't help by think that the increased resistance is not good. After a number of rounds, I would think that particles could accumulate in the divots and that can't be any good. I may check with Kahr. Since my slide is already in there for night sights, this may be a good time to go ahead and switch the barrels.

Thanks again for your help!!!!!!

[mx5fan]

Good morning to everyone, In am new to the forum, but not new to kahr pistols. i own about 25 kahr pistols, they are my favoriT handguns. i have been buying kahr arms pistols and longuns for 20 yrs. plus. I been a gunsmith for almost 50 yrs. Jocko got it rite, polish bbl. and it will be good as new, it may be a bbl. that was added . in any case a highly polished bbl. will do as well as any other process. like any other tool or firearm keep it well cleaned and lubricated. TALK TO YOU MEMBERS SOON. ziggy


Welcome Ziggy, we are certainly glad to have you here and look forward to your knowledge on these fine pistols.

[Singlestack_9mm]

Yes, I can feel the difference. I feel a "rough spot" and a small amount of resistance when I run an object over the area. Also, the spots are not circular. I just used the "head of a pin" comparison because I couldn't think of anything else that small. One of the spots is sort of like the number '8'. I studied your photo's and even though my flaking is smaller, it is definitely flaking of the nickel coating.

I appreciate your feedback. Even though I am hoping it won't continue, I am sort of expecting that it will. I know Kahr says it is cosmetic, but I can't help by think that the increased resistance is not good. After a number of rounds, I would think that particles could accumulate in the divots and that can't be any good. I may check with Kahr. Since my slide is already in there for night sights, this may be a good time to go ahead and switch the barrels.

Thanks again for your help!!!!!!

The 3 replacement barrels I received all showed heavy flaking within 200 rounds. All of my replacement barrels upon inspection before firing any rounds through them had imperfections in the chambers and one had imperfections on the feed ramp.These spots were slightly rough, IMHO they are a plating imperfection during manifacturing. Once I fired these barrels the spots did not change in size or shape, but I did get lots of flaking in other parts of the chamber that was not noticeable when new. My guess is you had these spots in your chamber from day one and in my case they did not get any worse. I have a 1000 rounds down with this flaking condition with no issues. The only reason I replaced my first barrel was because the flaking was on the feed ramp which IMHO could be a issue. The chambers seam to have a lot of clearance. After my 3rd replacement barrel I gave up and I don't want to burn up any more of my defense ammo. I will try again sometime down the road when they have this behind them. Since my gun fires reliably, I'm not to worried about it.

[wagon]

Interesting update, Singlestack.

I think Kahr should eliminate the plating requirement in their spec to get this monkey off the back -- that is, if it is indeed only to serve a cosmetic purpose.

Otherwise this is going to NOT only give them a bad rep, this is gonna affect customer confidence, as well as increase their cost due to warranty service to a bad "non-functional and cosmetic only" feature in their product. End-result, we the customers will pay more to bear their high operating costs... may be we are already paying for it..... :rolleyes:

[jocko]

single stack has had more problems than any one person deserves. that being said kahr has been nickel plating there guns since day one and that has to be over 20 years, and this is the first issue of flaking on their barrels. It is a vendor issue and no doubt there are still more out there that will do it. Nickel plating is not cosmetic their comment to that to me is ridicoulos in that they are saying it will not harm functionality, which I believe it will not but nickel plating is more durable finish (when done properly) produces less corrosion and cleans easier. It has it purpose far more than a cosmetic thing.
the military when they introduced the AR's in the Nam era, had to replace all their barrel with nickel plated barrels to getthem to fucntion correctly. The Beretta M9barrels are nickel plated. It is not cosmetic.

It's just not a good thing when it happens to anyone person, be it a gun, toaster, car, tv or what ever.
More than likely some of the guns we own by other mfg-er have nickel palted barrels and we don't even know it..

If a person has a flaking barrel, he needs to get a hold of kahr and they will replace it. It certainly is not going to renickel itself if left alone. If it is on the feed ramp or inside the chamber, I would definitely send it in. If it is in the barrel, I would have to determine myself how bad it is , but more than likely I would have it replaced. We paid for a properly coated nickel barrel and is seems that 99%of the other kahrs are OK. I have heard no P380 kahrs barrels doing that. Seems to be in the PM9 barrels which to me could very well indicarte a vendor issues, as kahr does not nickel plate their own barrels.

For me, if offered a nickel plated barrel over a non nickel coated barrel, I would take the Nickel barrel any day. YMMV

[xzhync]

I did go ahead and send my barrel into Kahr. I told them that my slide is also there to have night sights installed. I asked that they check to make sure the new barrel fits in the existing slide. They told me they would check and then send both pieces back together. I'll give an update once I get everything back.

[Wayne's World]

I'm guessing this problem is on production barrels from Sept - Nov..(or there abouts). I've been blessed (so-far). If the SN thing works out as described above(and on Glocks site), my barrel was made in May. I feel bad for you folks that have had to go through all this crap. I know Kahr is taking care of the problems (one by one), but if they have a batch of barrels that are known to have this problem.....why not recall them and do what is right. Please do not get me wrong, I love my PM9 and would hate to be without it, but would gladly carry a PPK for two or three weeks if Kahr was to recall my weapon for a necessary repair or replacement part.

[wagon]

They have a bigger issue on hand.. mine (at least) has a July prod date.

As I said, just replace problem barrels with UN-plated ones... problem solve... after all, Kahr said that it is non-functional, just cosmetic, i.e. a non-value-added "feature".



I'm guessing this problem is on production barrels from Sept - Nov..(or there abouts). I've been blessed (so-far). If the SN thing works out as described above(and on Glocks site), my barrel was made in May. I feel bad for you folks that have had to go through all this crap. I know Kahr is taking care of the problems (one by one), but if they have a batch of barrels that are known to have this problem.....why not recall them and do what is right. Please do not get me wrong, I love my PM9 and would hate to be without it, but would gladly carry a PPK for two or three weeks if Kahr was to recall my weapon for a necessary repair or replacement part.

[500KV]

Good morning to everyone, In am new to the forum, but not new to kahr pistols. i own about 25 kahr pistols, they are my favoriT handguns. i have been buying kahr arms pistols and longuns for 20 yrs. plus. I been a gunsmith for almost 50 yrs. Jocko got it rite, polish bbl. and it will be good as new, it may be a bbl. that was added . in any case a highly polished bbl. will do as well as any other process. like any other tool or firearm keep it well cleaned and lubricated. TALK TO YOU MEMBERS SOON. ziggy

Hmmm????? :lie: :rolleyes:

[jocko]

Good morning to everyone, In am new to the forum, but not new to kahr pistols. i own about 25 kahr pistols, they are my favoriT handguns. i have been buying kahr arms pistols and longuns for 20 yrs. plus. I been a gunsmith for almost 50 yrs. Jocko got it rite, polish bbl. and it will be good as new, it may be a bbl. that was added . in any case a highly polished bbl. will do as well as any other process. like any other tool or firearm keep it well cleaned and lubricated. TALK TO YOU MEMBERS SOON. ziggy

GROUP PHOTO sure would look nice:rolleyes:

[deadhead1971]

Mine was purchased in mid June # IB07xx--probably a May or June production. I was on a waiting list so it just came in.

[Wayne's World]

They have a bigger issue on hand.. mine (at least) has a July prod date.

As I said, just replace problem barrels with UN-plated ones... problem solve... after all, Kahr said that it is non-functional, just cosmetic, i.e. a non-value-added "feature".

"non-value-added "feature" or not. They included this feature and they should stand by it or delete it. One or the other. :target:
I don't need "cosmetic" features on the inside of my gun. Just uncompromising functionality.

[wagon]

Wayne's World: You missed my point ;) or .. should I say: thanks for echoing my point.. LOL


"non-value-added "feature" or not. They included this feature and they should stand by it or delete it. One or the other. :target:
I don't need "cosmetic" features on the inside of my gun. Just uncompromising functionality.

[Wayne's World]

Then.... Ditto !
My bad

[wagon]

Nothing bad, Wayne :D I've learned to use some sarcasm instead of speaking out the way I see it, otherwise I might be tagged as "trasher".....

.. and truth be told, the PM9 is my primary CCW, I say it all along that, to me, it has best balance among size, weight and firepower. But I still say that Kahr coulda / shoulda do much better quality assurance at the price level they charge for.

Just one person opinion ... :rolleyes:



Then.... Ditto !
My bad

[xzhync]

I did go ahead and send my barrel into Kahr. I told them that my slide is also there to have night sights installed. I asked that they check to make sure the new barrel fits in the existing slide. They told me they would check and then send both pieces back together. I'll give an update once I get everything back.


Ok, I got my new barrel today. Not bad...1 week from the day I shipped the other barrel. It looks good out of the box. It dropped right in. Of course, since my slide was already there for night sights I asked that they test the new barrel on the existing slide. I do a thorough inspection and I can't see any flaking on the feed ramp or inside the chamber. I will probably try and go to the range tomorrow to test. I cleaned it really well and inspected it. I am mildly optimistic. I also got the slide back today. As mentioned I had sent it in to have xs big dots installed. They look good. My only complaint is that I sent it to Kahr to help guarantee that there would be no damage done to the slide. I won't say there was damage, but I can see where a little of the DLC coating was chipped at the edge of the front dovetail. Not that big of deal, but I was hoping for a little better. I know the factory sites are in there tight so I am sure it isn't easy to remove them without a little chip here and there. I used to have a Springfield XD9. I had local gunsmith install trijicon sites last summer. In the process he chipped the edge of the dovetail. Just cosmetic, but it bugged me a little. I was trying to avoid that problem this time. The damage is less, so I won't complain too much. Anyway, I'll report back after I try out the new barrel.

[xzhync]

Ok, I went to the range today with my replacement barrel and shot 100 rounds. After a thorough cleaning I think I may be experiencing the same problem. I did a first pass cleaning of the barrel. I even used a bore gel. The barrel was basically clean, but I noticed a kind of haze inside the chamber (mostly at the top of the chamber). I had a hard time removing the haze. I put some of the bore gel on a cue tip and really worked it. It started to come off, but slowly. I then took a little flitz on a cue tip and started to work it. I got more of the haze out, but started to notice a few little areas where the "haze" wouldn't come off. I polished a little more. At that point I got the flashlight out and shined it inside the barrel. With the light shining in, the haze that wouldn't come out looked more like light flaking. I rubbed a fine point cue tip over the area and couldn't really feel any roughness or resistance, but it kind of looks like flaking/peeling. Yesterday, when I got the barrel I did an inspection. I didn't shine a flashlight inside, but I could tell that there was somewhat of a shine to the metal. I didn't look further because it appreared ok. I am a little surprised by the haze. I noticed that on my previous barrel. Maybe that is just residue, but it doesn't really come off with solvents and a brass brush. I wonder if the haze and the flaking are related. Not sure, but I have noticed both with both barrels. Again, at this point I can't really feel any roughness so maybe I am ok. I sure wish I would have shined the light in yesterday just to see if I could see anything going on. Maybe the barrels are coming from the vendor that way. Since Kahr says that it is only a cosmetic problem I will probably just cool my jets this time and test another 100 rounds or so to see if there is any change. It is a real pain to keep sending barrels in (with no guarantee or even likelihood that the next barrel will be better). It would appear that they haven't worked out the problem yet. I am not sure they are admitting to even having a problem. The customer service guy told me that this problem is rare. Not sure about that since I have had 2 barrels like this and I believe at least one other person on this thead has experienced the problem with multiple barrels. At this point, it is not causing any problems. I have shot a total of 350 rounds through my PM9 without a single issue. I also don't think anyone on this thread has stated that the flaking caused a FTE/FTF or any other issue with their pistol. I think what I may do is call Kahr to tell them that I am experiencing the same thing. I will tell them that I would like to hold on to the barrel for awhile to see if it worsens. I'll tell them that if it gets worse or I start to have performance issues that I will send it in for another replacement. I'll keep all of you posted.

[duesenberg1]

I just picked up my nib mk40 with night sights today. Went out and shot 50rnds. I inspected the barrel and there was flaking of the plating in the bore of the barrel. I am somewhat frustrated and am not looking foward to spending more money on shipping to fix my new gun that I paid so much for.

http://kahrtalk.com/images/tigra/misc/progress.gif

[getsome]

Ah oh, thats not good...so far its only been the 9mm barrels but looks like the problem might also include .40 cal barrels...I think I'll have a good look at my CW40 when I get home....Hope this is an isolated incident...

[deadhead1971]

Everytime I see this thread rear its ugly head and manifest itself, I think, "Oh no, not again."

Dues--It's not that expensive to mail back the barrel. I think I paid about 5 to $8 which included $160 insurance to cover it. It is a pain, and it was a 2 week turn around. Kahr mailed me a new barrel.

[xzhync]

As noted in my post above, my second barrel is flaking as bad or worse that the first barrel. It only took 100 rounds to cause the flaking. On January 18th I called the customer service to report the problem with the second barrel. At that time, the rep said they were out but were expecting more barrels by that Friday (Jan 22nd). He told me to call him that Friday if I didn't hear anything. Well, I ended up calling and was told that the barrels did not come in. I asked about a revised expected delivery and he said he didn't know. It has now been 2 weeks since the "expected" delivery of the barrels...still no barrels. I have called a few times to check on status, but I keep getting their scripted response which is "the problem is cosmetic, but because you paid good money you should have a firearm that is free from the flaking. You can continue to shoot your firearm as much as you want...the flaking should not cause a problem". I have called several times in the last few weeks and I get the same speech (nearly word for word the same). They also won't give any info on when the new barrels will come in. I may be crazy, but in my line of work, if I can't meet a customer expectation, I am behind the scenes doing what I can to expedite the solution. The last time I called...this last Tuesday, I asked for the same rep that I have been talking to. He wouldn't take my call. He told the other person to say that the barrels are not in, that he knows who I am, and will send a new barrel once they arrive. This person also indicated that the "production line" gets first priority for any barrels that arrive. They act like they are at the mercy of whatever entity ships them barrels. Maybe they are helpless, but I bet they could make some phone calls and apply some level of pressure. Everytime I have asked, they deny that this is a large problem. They told me that it was very odd that I have had 2 barrels do the same flaking. I explained that I have seen this problem on this blog, but they down-played it. I mean, come on, what are the odds that there have only been two (or a very small handful) of bad barrels and I just happened to get both of them. I am not stupid. Obviously, this is a bigger problem. They will tell you that it is just cosmetic, though. They say the pistol is perfectly fine. How do they know that? Have they done extensive testing with flaking barrels...don't think so. I am hoping that this current delay has something to do with correcting the flaking problem. I am hoping that they are rejecting batches that aren't plated correctly. I would like to think that the next barrel they send will absolutely not have this problem. I am not very encouraged though. Can anyone here provide me with the name of a supervisor at Kahr? I want to talk to someone that will stop giving the canned speech and start getting results.

[jocko]

xzhync

PM sent...

[rock]

Good morning to everyone, In am new to the forum, but not new to kahr pistols. i own about 25 kahr pistols, they are my favoriT handguns. i have been buying kahr arms pistols and longuns for 20 yrs. plus. I been a gunsmith for almost 50 yrs. Jocko got it rite, polish bbl. and it will be good as new, it may be a bbl. that was added . in any case a highly polished bbl. will do as well as any other process. like any other tool or firearm keep it well cleaned and lubricated. TALK TO YOU MEMBERS SOON. ziggy

Err, I don't believe Kahr has been making pistols for 20 years.

[jocko]

Err, I don't believe Kahr has been making pistols for 20 years.

17 years, I think the members here knew that fella's post was pure B.S . He has never come back either, :confused:

[xzhync]

Got the new barrel yesterday. It is a little different. Doesn't appear to be as much nickel plating. The only area that appears to be plated is the feed ramp. At least this is the only area that is shiny on this barrel. If the other areas are plated then they are now a matte finish. I'll try and test it out today or tomorrow. The only concern, is that there is a fine scratch on the feed ramp. Hopefully, that won't lead to flaking. I'll give a report after I shoot 100 rounds or so.

[deadhead1971]

XZ--my replacement barrel was the same--dull finish but feed ramp was smooth mirror shiny. I don't have a scratch but I have a small crater on the outside of the barrel. :001_huh:

One thing I noticed with the "new" barrel was how hard it is to clean--the black carbon-powder-soot does not want to come off with any bore cleaner. Please see how yours cleans and let me know. Seriously, this barrel is much harder to get clean than the first and even after cleaning, it is not totally clean.:frown:

I have 560 rounds through the new barrel with no flaking.

[jocko]

Got the new barrel yesterday. It is a little different. Doesn't appear to be as much nickel plating. The only area that appears to be plated is the feed ramp. At least this is the only area that is shiny on this barrel. If the other areas are plated then they are now a matte finish. I'll try and test it out today or tomorrow. The only concern, is that there is a fine scratch on the feed ramp. Hopefully, that won't lead to flaking. I'll give a report after I shoot 100 rounds or so.

they just polished the feed ramp, the entire barrel inside and out is nickel plated. You shold be good to go. I serioulsy doubt if that fine scratch on the feed ramp will do anything. the Nickel finish is harder than the steel in the barrel. Just shoot it like you stole it..

[xzhync]

XZ--my replacement barrel was the same--dull finish but feed ramp was smooth mirror shiny. I don't have a scratch but I have a small crater on the outside of the barrel. :001_huh:

One thing I noticed with the "new" barrel was how hard it is to clean--the black carbon-powder-soot does not want to come off with any bore cleaner. Please see how yours cleans and let me know. Seriously, this barrel is much harder to get clean than the first and even after cleaning, it is not totally clean.:frown:

I have 560 rounds through the new barrel with no flaking.

Well, I went to the range the other night and shot 100 rounds through my new (less shiny barrel). After cleaning it, I didn't notice any flaking. Hopefully, this barrel has the problem solved. I won't breath completely easy until I shoot another 200 rounds or so, but I am encouraged. As far as difficulty cleaning, it seemed that the new barrel was a little harder to clean, but after using a good gel bore cleaner, it came clean fairly easily.

On a slightly different note, at the end of my range session, I put approx 20 rounds of Cor-Bon 115 grain +P. This is the round that is supposed to be the most powerful 9mm defensive round. All I can say is "wow". The kick is significantly more noticeable. These rounds seemed pretty accurate, but the additional recoil got my attention. I wouldn't mind finding a good, reliable 9mm defensive round with less kick and close to the same performance specs. The Cor-bon says something like 1366 ft/sec. and 466 ft./lbs. of energy. Even if I could find something around 400 ft./lbs., if it had less kick, would probably still be effective. Does anyone have any suggestions?

[deadhead1971]

Well, my 6 round mag and the one in the chamber is 124 Speer Gold Dots, and the 7 round back-up mag has federal 124 Hydra-shock. All are standard pressure.

The Gold Dots come in a black box like this and say "law enforcement" on the box--Speer Gold Dot&#174; Pistol Ammunition : Cabela's (http://www.cabelas.com/p-0062797214249a.shtml)

One thing that makes the Gold Dots stand out from the others (I am told) is its ability to go through a windshield and continue in a staight path (trajectory?). This is important to me so that's why I have them.

The extreme shock air freedom round is by far the nastiest ammo out there, ouch!

Extreme Shock Tungsten Nytrilium Air Freedom Round Ammunition 9MM85AFR20, 9 MM, 85 GR, 1531 fps, 20 (http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=91023)

Extreme Shock - The World's Most Advanced Ammunition (http://www.extremeshockusa.com/cgistore/store.cgi?page=/new/product_info.html&setup=1)

[deadhead1971]

I put another 200 rounds through the new PM9 barrel---764 rounds to date-- and no flaking

I have 1189 rounds through the slide amd frame

[B18C5 Tom]

So is this barrel issue limited to the PM9?

Are there any cases of it happening in the P45, PM40, P380, etc????

WOW I just stumbled across this topic.

I just purchased a PM40 (I already own a PM9 too) and the PM40 being brand new, never fired by me I already see barrel flaking. I noticed it when I took the pistol apart to clean the grease and lube the pistol to my liking. A co-worker and fellow Kahr owner who already sent his CW40 back for a new barrel (flaking) pointed out me flaking PM40 barrel.

I'm debating now whether to just go ahead and send them the brand new, flaking barrel before I even run any ammo through it. I've read numerous times that it's "just cosmetic" but a few things don't sit well with me in regards to this:

1. It would make resale difficult/next to impossible

2. If it's cosmetic only then why even have the coating in the first place?

I've already sent my PM9 back for a malfunction with ammo, and that customer service experience was top-notch taking just 6 calendar days to complete the service - just 4 business days.

I really want to be a positive spokesperson for Kahr, and I really want to know that their pistol will do its part in saving my life so long as I do my part.

I skipped the last 4 pages so if I'm rehashing an old point that other models are affected I apologize.

[wagon]

... and in the case of my replacement barrel.. total 406 rounds to date, so far so good.



I put another 200 rounds through the new PM9 barrel---764 rounds to date-- and no flaking

I have 1189 rounds through the slide amd frame

[jocko]

WOW I just stumbled across this topic.

I just purchased a PM40 (I already own a PM9 too) and the PM40 being brand new, never fired by me I already see barrel flaking. I noticed it when I took the pistol apart to clean the grease and lube the pistol to my liking. A co-worker and fellow Kahr owner who already sent his CW40 back for a new barrel (flaking) pointed out me flaking PM40 barrel.

I'm debating now whether to just go ahead and send them the brand new, flaking barrel before I even run any ammo through it. I've read numerous times that it's "just cosmetic" but a few things don't sit well with me in regards to this:

1. It would make resale difficult/next to impossible

2. If it's cosmetic only then why even have the coating in the first place?

I've already sent my PM9 back for a malfunction with ammo, and that customer service experience was top-notch taking just 6 calendar days to complete the service - just 4 business days.

I really want to be a positive spokesperson for Kahr, and I really want to know that their pistol will do its part in saving my life so long as I do my part.

I skipped the last 4 pages so if I'm rehashing an old point that other models are affected I apologize.

they say it will not hurt anythingk, indeed send it back they will replace it but forst call kahr and ask for IAN and get a RMA# . You need only send the barrel also and u can do that regualr US. mail.

get the barrel sent in no doubt, Be very sure it is flaking also, and not just crap left in teh barrel from kahr factory. They don't clean their barrels after test firing, so give it a good scrubbing before hand to verify it is indeed flaking..

[deadhead1971]

Tom--You have flaking without firing a shot? That's a first here. I think I noticed flaking around the 400 round mark inside the chamber. I don't remember what page it's on, but I posted a photo of it on this thread.

[B18C5 Tom]

I'll try to take a good picture of it tonight. It's definitely been fired because there were still dingleberries in the barrel itself, but it should have just been the test firing.

[jocko]

I'll try to take a good picture of it tonight. It's definitely been fired because there were still dingleberries in the barrel itself, but it should have just been the test firing.

think that if it was flaking, it would be very easy to spot. Just because something is in the barrel or looks different, does not mean it is flaking. Now I am in no way kam saying that you don't know what u are talking about, but scrubb that little barrel till hell freezes over with a good bore cleaner. If is flaking, it will still be there. THEN CALL KAHR..

Indeed they test fire their guns but they don't reclean them or actually do the great lube preparation that the members oh this fourm do to their new guns before going out. A perfectly dry kahr will shoot x number of magazines and never malfunction. Kahr is not going to do the prep job that we as owners should do...

[B18C5 Tom]

You guys be the judges - I'm not an expert by any means, but the finish on the feed ramp continues into the interior of the barrel where it appears to be inconsistently flaking off:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/B18C5-EH2/CCW%20comparisons/PM40/FlakeyBest-Copy.jpg



This barrel is from a Kahr PM40 that my wife purchased from a dealer on Gun Broker. This seller has excellent feedback. My wife had even called Art Moore, the southeast regional Kahr Arms sales rep (his e-mail is listed on Kahr's website as a contact) to verify that the pistol was still a new, not registered pistol and that it was the latest generation manufactured.

BTW:

My co-worker whose CW40's barrel began flaking at under 50 rounds says his looked exactly the same, and I agree. Kahr replaced his entire barrel free of charge (paid shipping for entire gun both ways) and it only took 6 calendar days/4 business days.

I have not fired a single round through it yet. I just bought 200 rounds of Remington UMC that was to be shot sometime this week, but the barrel flaking (or not?) issue is making me second guess even firing a shot through it so that my "break-in" rounds are not wasted on a soon to be replaced (or not?) barrel.

I looked at my PM9 barrel and it's either perfectly intact and consistent, or it has a super thin layer of build-up that appears to be perfect in consistency. I'm going to go with it still looks perfect/not flaking.

Thoughts?

[wagon]

Ouch .. looks like it. If it is indeed what I think it is, you should be receiving a replacement barrel.

Welcome to the Party ... of the "unlucky ones" .......

None the less, Kahr Cust Service will take good care of ya.



You guys be the judges - I'm not an expert by any means, but the finish on the feed ramp continues into the interior of the barrel where it appears to be inconsistently flaking off:

[deadhead1971]

Tom--That looks like some severe flaking. If you can take a small screwdriver or something and run it along that spot and feel the change in barrel chamber surface elevation, for lack of a better word, then it's flaking.

I mailed in my barrel with $160 insurance to cover the cost of replacement--USPS cost was around $6. I received a new barrel in the mail in about 2 weeks. You do not need a return authorization. I mailed back the barrel with a note explaining the problem with my return address. I would e-mail them first (Ian is the rep), and let them know you are mailing them a defective barrel. They will replace it no questions asked and no hassle. Like Wagon said, welcome to the exclusive flaking barrel club. Not everyone on this forum can join. It does concern me that you have not fired a shot, and it looks that bad from the factory--test fired.

[B18C5 Tom]

Yes I e-mailed Ian Burr as he should remember me from my PM9 issue I had a few weeks ago. I'm waiting for his reply.

[deadhead1971]

The other concern I have is that your Pm40 is new. My PM9 was bought new in June '09 (seriel # IB07xx) This tells me that Kahr still has not fixed the barrel problem after all these months. You should hear back before the end of the business day.

What was your PM9 issue? I can't remember if I read about it here or not. The other issue I have had was with the flange coming apart while shooting. See here: http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/863-confounded-flange.html

Kahr sent me a whole new assembly--flange and outter spring

So now I keep a spare flange on hand.

[B18C5 Tom]

I mailed the PM40 off to Kahr Arms attn Ian Burr via USPS "if it fits it ships" box and added signature confirmation and $200.00 insurance value for a total of $8.75. If they're open Saturday they'll get it then; if not it'll be Monday. I imagine they'd overnight me a barrel as soon as they open mine and see how bad it is.

I also asked Ian if he could have the new barrel polished on the feed ramp and hood, and to let me know if there would be a charge. Someone there polished my PM9's barrel when it came in for repair after an extractor issue I had - wasn't on the repair order, nor was I charged anything for it.

[deadhead1971]

I have called kahr in the past, and their voice message says they close Friday at 4:30 PM. They are not open Saturday. It took 2 weeks for me because a batch of barrels got rejected or they were out of barrels at the time.

[Buckeye Fan]

I just got my PM9 a few days ago and after reading this thread's 18 pages of issues with flaking I cleaned mine up and checked it over. I've got 700 rounds downrange and my feed ramp is still as smooth and polished as can be. There is what appears to be some minor flaking deeper inside the chamber and it feels slightly rough when I run a straw across the area but it doesn't look any different than in any of my other guns and I've not had any issues because of it. My serial is IB73 so I think that is pretty new so hopefully they've got this issue worked out and I got a good one? Time will tell but so far my ramp looks and feels smooth as silk. ;)

[deadhead1971]

new barrel now has 1,014 rounds and no flaking yet!

[sviking]

Holy crap...didn't even realize this was a problem. Glad I got a "bad" old VA series PM9. Zero problems to date after many years and MANY rounds through it. The barrel is also very easy to clean. I've been shooting the heck out of it recently since I moved back to Arizona and can easily shoot out in the desert. If there were any flaking/cracking problems, I'd definitely would have seen them by now.

In all honesty, and based on all the BS I've read here about the barrels and Kahr, I'd just keep shooting it. If mine were to remain reliable, then I'd just chalk it up to cosmetics and not worry about it. The barrel is already stainless, so it's not like it will start rusting all of the sudden. Can't see it unless you break it down and specifically look for it anyway. Now, if it were the exterior of the slide...different story...

[recoilguy]

That looks fishy to me!

RCG

[Swat_dude]

I wonder why Kahr doesn't consider nitriding their barrels. I think it is less expensive than nickel plating and it doesn't add material that can come off but actually changes the composition of the steel, making it super hard and corrossion resistant. I missed this thread prior to sending my new gun to Robar after 200 rounds. I didn't notice any flaking but I also didn't check. Robar will coat everything except the chamber and bore. I paid extra to have the feed ramp polished after NP-3 was applied so if this is a bad barrel I am going to be quite pissed if I have to have it re-coated and re-polished.

[sviking]

That looks fishy to me!

RCG

What, 'cuz it looks like it's flaking off in scales? :001_tt2:

[Bawanna]

I wonder why Kahr doesn't consider nitriding their barrels. I think it is less expensive than nickel plating and it doesn't add material that can come off but actually changes the composition of the steel, making it super hard and corrossion resistant. I missed this thread prior to sending my new gun to Robar after 200 rounds. I didn't notice any flaking but I also didn't check. Robar will coat everything except the chamber and bore. I paid extra to have the feed ramp polished after NP-3 was applied so if this is a bad barrel I am going to be quite pissed if I have to have it re-coated and re-polished.

I would not worry until you know you got something to worry about. There's a very good chance your barrel will have no issues. Many times even problems are'nt problems until you discover them then we get all overwrought over small issues that are not worth getting overwrought about.
What did your whoroscope say this morning? Like I really believe that stuff.

[deadhead1971]

I am up to 1,214 rds in the new barrel--no flaking.

For you newbies out there, here are 2 other issues I have had with my PM9. The first link down has to do with the replacement barrels that were sent out to replace the ones that were flaking. This was an isolated case as I have not heard anyone bring this up again.

http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/527-replacement-barrel-frunstration-diappointment.html

http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/863-confounded-flange.html

I love this little gun and would buy another one if something happened to it.

[sviking]

What did your whoroscope say this morning? Like I really believe that stuff.

Something like, "Fie dollah, GI? Me luv u long time."? :eek:

[jocko]

I would not worry until you know you got something to worry about. There's a very good chance your barrel will have no issues. Many times even problems are'nt problems until you discover them then we get all overwrought over small issues that are not worth getting overwrought about.
What did your whoroscope say this morning? Like I really believe that stuff.

has been nickel plating their barrels since day 1, would hate to guess how many tens of thousands that would be. This past year they had some issues with a plating vendor. To my knowledge the issue has been solved, are there still some more out there that will in time flake--???Probably so. It is rare to happen and kahr has taken care of every plated barrel brought to their attention as flaking.
A properly nickel plated barrel has a very hight rockwell hardness and durability and corrosion resistance is some of the primary reason for nickel plating. I do know our military Beretta's are all nickel plated barrels and it was specified by the military to be that way.

Like Bawanna said, why worry about something that has not happened to you.

There is somewhere on this forum a nice thread posted as to how kahrs has their barrels plated and the reasons and the process which seems complicated to read , but the hardness is very very high.

[sviking]

kahr has taken care of every plated barrel brought to their attention as flaking.

I wonder how they'd handle a gun out of warranty. Kahr switched to a 5 year warranty years ago. Mine was made in 2005 and I bought it at the beginning of 2006. It came with a "5 year" warranty card... I'm not worried about having problems, but I still wonder how they deal with out of warranty claims, especially when it's obviously defects in THEIR "craftsmanship", such as these barrels with shoddy, flaking plating. :rolleyes:

[jlottmc]

I'm gonna get flamed/stoned for this... A call to customer service should answer those questions.

[sviking]

I'm gonna get flamed/stoned for this... A call to customer service should answer those questions.

You'd be surprised... I asked some technical questions about the updated recoil spring assembly for PM9s regarding differences. I knew the newer springs were silver, but supposedly the round part end of the guide rod was a different size. I'm guessing it must be the end opposite the front of the slide, obviously. That was via email and I never got any response.

So... I asked "nicely" for a replacement for my "old" recoil assembly that is now, as of today, officially well over 1500 rounds (still no problems). They put one in the mail for me today for FREE so I can see for myself. :cool:

[tcb]

Just sent the barrel of my PM40 back yesterday for the same flaking issues you guys are haveing. Hopefully I'll get a good one and this will be the end of the drama. Ian was very nice and the service seems like a no hassle situation. I was noticing the flaking in the chamber and in small spots all down the barrel.

[sviking]

Yes, Ian at Kahr rocks! He's the one who just sent me a free PM9 recoil assembly.

[deadhead1971]

maybe we should start an "Ian Rocks" thread. Ian has helped me and responded to my e-mails for 2 warranty issues...etc. Ian needs a customer service award or something.

[deadhead1971]

Shot another 306 rounds (6 rds of this were speer +P)

Up to 1,520 rds through the new barrel and no flaking (1,945 total for the Pm9)

[deadhead1971]

I am bumping this up for the new guys to be aware of. I have not seen too many complaints lately.

[jocko]

not a bad idea, I am sure kahr has that issue taken care of, It was, I was told a vendor issue. probably still some of those barrels out there yet but some will never notice it even.

[CTKahr]

I have the peeling plating issue on my new PM40, bought new about a month ago. I noticed the peeling in the barrel during the first cleaning, before shooting it. I called Kahr about it, they told me it was just visual, and had no negative effects. But, it still makes me uncomfitorable knowing this is happening. I can see the finish peeling all the way down the barrel through the rifeling and all. I just stumbled upon this thread now, and maybe I'll give Kahr another call and complain. I dont understand why they just dident replace the barrel the first time I called, since this is obviously a known issue...

I have had them warrenty a few pieces on the guna so far, and always with a professional attitude. I love this guna, and the company. Hopefully they can help me out with this issue.

Is the general concensus that they have resolved the issue for good???:confused:

[jocko]

DEFINITELY CALL KAHR AND COMPLAIN THEY SHOULD AND WILL REPLACE that barrel. cosmetic or not, it is not supposed to do that. do you know whent he gun was made also, u could ask kahr that by giving them the serial number. U can ust send the barrel to them even, but if they ask for the entire gun then yo insist they pick up the tab both ways. U can regualr mail the barrel to them for about $5..

I am of the opinion this issue is behind them, but who knows, where that barrel might have been allthis time to. Gun cold have been amde yesterday but the barrel could have been laying around amd made when they indeed had some plating issues. they will take care of it, ask for Jay or eoin..

[deadhead1971]

Is the general concensus that they have resolved the issue for good???


Apparently not. :(

And yes, it is a known issue. I got a new barrel. To update my post above, I have 2,470 rounds through the new barrel with no flaking so far. I noticed the flaking on the first barrel at around 400 rds.

I mailed just the barrel back with insurance for less than $10, and they mailed me back a new barrel 2 weeks after I mailed it in.

[CTKahr]

Well, I called Kahr this morning, and spoke to Jay. He said that I need to send him the entire gun, with a 1 to 2 week turn around, in order for them to be able to replace the barrel. He said he cant warrenty it without actually seeing the flakeing, and then needs to fit a new barrel to the gun and test fire the gun.
My question is, is anyone just dealing with the flakeing?
I dont want to send my primary carry gun out for 2 weeks if I dont have to. I have no malfunctions from it, and the barrel still shoots true.
What would you guys do? Send it out and carry a little LCP for 2 weeks? Or just deal with the flakeing, and forget about it? :confused:

[jocko]

well it won't cause issues but it should not be flaking. bite the bullet and send it in and get it done right. They will say itis cosmetic and basicaly it is but nickel plated barrels done right are more corrosion resistant, easier to clean and just a more quality barrel. In ur case u got a bad one and kahr will do it right. It won't take 2 weeks. did they offer to pay to ship it back? It won't effect accuracy and if you canlive with it, then the decision is urs.

IMO I would get mine fixed correctly,that is what you paid the money for and that is what kahr meant to sell also. What is the serial# of your kahr except the last 3 numbers, that will give us a date of when it was made. Because you bought it a couple months ago, does not say when it was made or if it has set somewhere for a long time.

[Bawanna]

I think I'd send it. Let them decide if its ok or not. It probably is but if its not you should address it now and be done with it.

Generally they give you a worse case scenario on the time frame also. I suspect your gun would be back sooner than that.

Take the LCP, stay inside with the curtains closed, doors locked, get a big mean hungry dog and call us if you need backup.
Might want to get some videos to watch or bullets to reload or something so you don't go insane on daytime soap operas, Dr Phil, Oprah and etceral.

[jocko]

words of wisdom form the great wise one, I can't stand Dr. Phil, I lost faith in him when I waent on his show and was trying to see how to straighten out having 5 wives in 5 different towns. told him it was wearing me out . He didn't do jack ****, but after the show, he pulled me aside and offered to take 3 of those 5 wives off my hands. He was a graduate of Bringham young like I was. and u know their motto was and still is.

I DON'T CARE HOW YOUR BRINGUM BUT BRINGUM YOUNG.

Can't stand Oprah. I have an elecrtical outlet named Oprah. you can plug in any plug both ways and it works.

[CTKahr]

I think I'll take your advise and send it in. Better to be safe then sorry, right? That is a great point about the corrosion resistance, and for just that, I'd rather have it fixed. Thanks for the feedback, I'll keep you posted on results!

[LSP972]

My relatively new (purchased late last year NIB) PM9 is doing the same thing in the chamber and two spots in the bore. The gun is functioning fine, but I wonder how long before (or if) problems will develop.

.

[deadhead1971]

Get Kahr to replace it. They will tell you it's cosmetic but if it's in the bore, it can't be good for accuracy. Mine was just in the chamber. I mailed back the barrel, and Kahr sent me a new one under warrant..2 week turn around. The new barrel has had no flaking so far at 2,470 rds. The first barrel flaked within 400 rds.

[LSP972]

The first barrel flaked within 400 rds.

Sounds like mine. I have a bit over 500 rounds through it now, and just noticed this while cleaning it after the last range session.

.

[Jeff00042]

Has flaking been reported on any of the new beveled slide PM9s?

[deadhead1971]

Not sure, but if you go back to page 20, poster "ctkahr" reports flaking on his "new" PM40. If new means right from the factory, then I would think it could be a problem. From what we have learned here, the nickel finnish flaking seems to manifest itself within the first several hundred rounds. I don't recall folks having this problem once they reach around 600/700 rds. Of course, you could have that many rds and not have noticed it until then. Kahr replaced my barrel under warranty no questions asked. The flaking will only get worse so I would have it replaced.

[Eagleks]

It's nickel, not chrome (per Kahr reps) , and it's a failure in the nickel plating process, or if the wrong cleaner is used on it that can deteriorate nickel. Based upon being on my 3rd barrel from Kahr right now.... there's been a real strong issue with the nickel plating process not holding.

[jocko]

It's nickel, not chrome (per Kahr reps) , and it's a failure in the nickel plating process, or if the wrong cleaner is used on it that can deteriorate nickel. Based upon being on my 3rd barrel from Kahr right now.... there's been a real strong issue with the nickel plating process not holding.

right on the bad barrel thing. It wild take a total long time soaking of Hoppe'
s #9 even toruin a nickel plated barrel. I have beent old my kahr that Hoppe'
s #9 ois OPK to use just don't let it sit in the barrel for hours which we know none of us do. brush it out, run a oil patch down for the last wipe and that palting will be pe3rfect. Ihav emy 5 year old PM9 with over 32K thorugh it, can't tell you how many times I have cleaned that barrel with Hoppes and some of that brownell paste cleaner, my barrel looks like the day I bought it. If u get a bad mickel jobn,l it will flake, no if's ands or butts about it. It is rare buyt we have seen it here before on some kahrs.

[jocko]

got this today from kahr from the tech jpeople andnot a sales poerson on the phone.

concerninbg kahrs barrels: should end any debate


QUOTE; Good morning. All of our barrels are completely nickel plated. Hoppes
is fine as a cleaner however we would not recommend letting it sit or
leaving it submerged in the solvent as it can discolor the barrel. I hope
this information helps..

[bfitts1]

Just sent my kahr PM9 to the factory for the same reason.

[wyntrout]

All of their barrels are nickel plated, but some seem to be polished while others are dull and leaden looking, as my newer P380... like lead. It went back for a bad extractor and I mentioned the dull finish... came back with the same dull finish.:confused:

Wynn:)

[Keeper]

Any additional concerns over Hoppe's with using brake cleaner?

[krazman]

Only 500 rounds through my PM9 which is now at the factory for other issues. I have been using brake cleaner and no problem with flaking or discoloration of the barrel finish.

That dull barrel finish when new reminds me of the Cosmoline protective wax that was on my old BMW when it shipped from Germany. Protected the finish from the salt air/water. Dealership used a special solvent on the whole car to remove it prior to delivery. They forgot to detail the engine/engine compartment and now 20+ years later it is impossible to remove. I used a wax solvent on the barrel along with some gentle metal polish for kitchen utensils (Swiss Cleaner by Kuhn Rikon). Cleaned up in seconds to a mirror finish. Very gentle on metal according to manufacturer. I've never had any damage to any metal surface using it.

It's also great for getting off the burned on food from stainless pans!

kraz

[jocko]

the dull finish one sees on the new barrels is merely some finish over the nickel plating. U can polish that finish off i f u so desire. Flitz willd o it fine and 600+ paper will also do the same thing. I used my dremel and a polhsing cotton cone and some flitz. works faster. The feed ramps are highly polished though

[jocko]

Only 500 rounds through my PM9 which is now at the factory for other issues. I have been using brake cleaner and no problem with flaking or discoloration of the barrel finish.

That dull barrel finish when new reminds me of the Cosmoline protective wax that was on my old BMW when it shipped from Germany. Protected the finish from the salt air/water. Dealership used a special solvent on the whole car to remove it prior to delivery. They forgot to detail the engine/engine compartment and now 20+ years later it is impossible to remove. I used a wax solvent on the barrel along with some gentle metal polish for kitchen utensils (Swiss Cleaner by Kuhn Rikon). Cleaned up in seconds to a mirror finish. Very gentle on metal according to manufacturer. I've never had any damage to any metal surface using it.

It's also great for getting off the burned on food from stainless pans!

kraz

years ago was that, as they don't do that anymore,course shipping conrtainers are far better today and most all vehicles are not storedon top anymore either. I bet that was a real mess..

[neveragain]

I have never spoken to a more belligerent or condescending tech/repair department in my life. I have two PM9s with chamber plating loss. They first claimed normal wear and tear. Ridiculous. After being run around their website and phone tree for three separate phone calls I am now told I must ship both complete firearms back to the factory for a quality control/defective part issue. I am told they required 4-6 weeks to deal with their bad plating on a drop in part. It would seem they wish to make it as costly and inconvenient as possible for the customer to get this well documented and prevalent problem solved. IMO a company selling a weapon designed and marketed for carry/self protection should be more concerned with the reliability of said weapon rather than attempt to deny their own quality issues. Failing that, the manufacturer should not then require the customer be separated from this self protection weapon for what could be months at a time. Ludicrous. Its a barrel. Replace it.
I love my PM9. My wife loves hers. I just wish they were manufactured to the same high standards of other firearms manufacturers. Notably the fine and friendly service departments of the companies I passed up to purchase Kahr products. I see now that the 43 was not late to the market, but instead arriving to fill the niche of a quality ultra compact carry piece that the Kahr products are vacating.
Please dont flame me out of brand loyalty, perhaps some advice instead. Is there a quality barrel option in the aftermarket for the PM9? I am not willing to trust my and my family's safety to a defective weapon but am also not crazy about the idea of putting out for two new Glocks at this point. Back to J frames for the time being I suppose.

[Bawanna]

It seems this post would be better spent addressed in it's entirety to Kahr management, perhaps even in a written snail mail letter.
Nobody here can do anything but sympathize with you. Nobody here works for Kahr so we're pretty much helpless.

Not what you want to hear but in the cases I've heard about involving the loss of plating issue on the barrel it did not effect function. I can certainly see where it could but usually doesn't.

That being said, I'd not be happy with plating peeling off any of my guns either.

[neveragain]

Nobody here can do anything but sympathize with you. Nobody here works for Kahr so we're pretty much helpless.


No sympathy sought but I appreciate the comment. I was mostly hoping for some recommendations for an aftermarket alternative so I can feel confident in these weapons again. Reliability tends to be much more difficult to create than a durable plating job so it does cause concern. My plating is peeling across the entire top of the chamber. I can see the potential for feeding issues, potentially at the worst time. Not helping me justify spending the extra on Kahrs. Hate to sell these two at a loss so a couple of acceptable quality aftermarket barrels would be a better course.

[Bawanna]

I'm not aware of any aftermarket barrel. I think the best thing to do despite your negative impression of the Techs response is to politely request a return shipping label.
Painful as it is to have them gone for a spell they will most likely come back with new barrels and ready to make a positive impression once again.

[muggsy]

There isn't a thing wrong with the barrels that you have. It's no different than the wear marks that appear on the barrel hood. The nickle plating is only from .0005 to .0015 thick. It won't impair function in the least. The wear is strictly a cosmetic issue.

[CJB]

+1 for Muggsy

The plating is there for its value in "lubricity", preventing galling and wear.

The plating will be "gone" from the barrel after not too many shots.

The plating on the ramp and chamber is because of the process, not because of intent. Its easier/cheaper just to plate the whole barrel.

And the plating does wear. My old PM9j was flaking at the ramp, and never hiccuped.

My bought new PM45 had what I thought were lead streaks in the barrel, but... this turned out to be nickel plating. I scrubbed it like hell, thinking it was lead, but after a couple of boxes of ammo... I was wrong, it was nickel, and it had been blown out of the barrel from shooting.

I hate to say the plating is "cosmetic", but will say that Kahr has not explained things well enough.

Its a non issue, like Muggsy said.

[muggsy]

Cosmetic as a scratch on he frame that doesn't impair function would be considered cosmetic. A little Flitz and a Dremel will make that ramp look like new.