New CM40 extractor problem

[firedude]

Hello. New guy here with a new CM40. Having failure to feed issues. I did go through all of the new Kahr tips and have followed all of the advise for breaking in a new gun. Just for the record I am not at all new to guns or small 40's. I am not limp wristing and have tried 2 other shooters just to make sure. Yesterday I got to the 300 round mark and the gun has not improved. I average 3 to 5 failures to feed per 50. I have tried 4 different brands of ammo. I did notice after reading 100 percents thread that my extractor tension is very high. All brass is scarred from the extractor in the same way. I guess my question is, is there a way to "Tune" the tension on these extractors?
Thanks for any help.

[100percent]

I doubt if it is going to fix itself. I tested the extractor by pushing brass up through the slide without the barrel in it of course. It was way tougher to do than in other similar guns. The brass is tipped up a bit as it starts into the extractor.

I took out the extractor, it was beveled at the bottom, but not smooth enough. The edge was sharp enough to dig into the rim of the brass. I radiused the edge on a stone.

I lived with this gun for nearly 4 years giving me intermittent FTFs. I bought it used and figured that it would break in.

muggsy posted the tip recently.

[100percent]

Here is a pic of the installed extractor looking down the slide. Note the radiused shape at the bottom of the extractor. I thinned it from behind a bit too.
http://veloliner.com/splitter/pm40extractor.JPG

[jocko]

anutter thing many do with the extractor is file off about .020 off the end of the long rod that goes in the extractor channel. This seems to loosen up the extractor a tad, for if u test kahrs extractor, it is one stout M**##ker.. Just sayin

[100percent]

Funny, what has changed on my weapon is that the brass pretty much goes very high over the right side of the my body.

I didn't want to get a failure to extract and after polishing the spring ends and rod end on the extractor control rod, the brass was still very stiff getting started into the extractor. So I modified the extractor claw only at the bottom though.

What ever works though.

[firedude]

Just what i was loooking for. Thanks for the replies.

[wyntrout]

I had a lot of problems fixing my P40's FTF's... my rounds would catch at a 45° angle going into the chamber. The rounds would c0ck in the chamber and if I just took the slightest bit of pressure off the round by gripping the slide and starting to move it rearward, there would be a click and the round would pop up into place and chamber easily as I released the slide. I tried all kinds of polishing the chamber mouth before addressing the extractor. I tried sliding the cartridge up against the breechface to check the clearances and decided to radius the extractor surfaces that come into contact with the rim of the cartridge... problem solved.

This problem took me weeks to solve. I... and others... thought it was a problem with the chamber. After many attempts to polish the chamber and repeated trips to the range for testing, I finally looked at the extractor.

Link to that coverage in my "P40 Blog" back in 2011:

Near last of pictures post #27 in the link.

Wynn's Mag-Na-Ported P40 BLOG updated - Page 3 - KahrTalk Forums (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=8426&highlight=P40+extractor&page=3)

Wynn:)

[100percent]

Hi Wynn. I skimmed through about 12 pages finding the fix. Do you think the porting was a factor in the tuning of your extractor problem. Did the problem start after the porting? I am thinking, decreased recoil energy....

Have you installed heavier springs?

Seems like this is a fairly common problem.

I have a PPK that has never run right.

[firedude]

Modified extractor as was done above by 100 percent. Took it out today to try it out. Got through 15 rounds and had the famous mag follower breakage. Not overly impressed with the quality control at Kahr thus far. They are sending me a new follower but as I have been reading it looks like I will either have to send gun back or modify the barrel myself to keep from having to get a new follower every week.

[100percent]

I've seen a lot of follower breakage. I thought is my PM40 going to have that.

I painted some silver magic marker all over the front of the black follower. there is one area that I see a bit of marking on the follower after running the mag a few times. I have had my gun since 2010 so I guess it isn't enough contact to break anything.

I am see a bit of a stress crack around the slide lock open metal pin embedded in the follower.

[wyntrout]

Hi Wynn. I skimmed through about 12 pages finding the fix. Do you think the porting was a factor in the tuning of your extractor problem. Did the problem start after the porting? I am thinking, decreased recoil energy....

Have you installed heavier springs?

Seems like this is a fairly common problem.

I have a PPK that has never run right.

No, I don't think the porting was a factor. The springs are still original, but I have new Wolff ones if I feel the need. I think that there just wasn't enough clearance for the cartridge rims to ease into place smoothly.

I just posted that I'm putting the P40 back into use as my main EDC after a lot of testing and acquiring some more of my favorite SD ammo... 180-gr Speer Gold Dots, short barrel version.

Wynn:)

[jocko]

I'm with wyn on this ojne. I have had ported guns for over 30 years, probalb y in all that time 15 semi's, never an issue, Porting should and would have no influenceon the issue that wy was having and he trouble shot the issue and fixed it himself. yahoo to wyn.

I love ported guns by Magna port.

[Bawanna]

Only cowboys can say yahoo Jocko, I'm not sure what sheep abusers say but I'm sure you'll think of something inappropriate.

Maybe it's an imitation of a back up buzzer on a truck.

[stoshmo]

Hey firedude i to own a cm40 got it right after christmas and have just under 1000 threw it and have of.course had a few problems with but tthe ftf happebd mostley onchambering first roundt.it.was jam took the the.range one day.came back and cleaned it.using a.earcleaner i.relized it snaggged on something on the bullit channle sprry dont no technicle names oppsit of the extractor the.bullit wore a grove akd there was a burr.stickin out just.enouph to.touch the.bullit and.cause.a.problem very carefull filled.itdown gun runs just.flawless i.can.run hundreds.of rounds a session no problems broke.one follower at round 150 then havent broke one.since bought a.couple extra just incase.easyer that way

[100percent]

Do you see my point. With the porting, some if not most of the energy is released at the port. In the 4 years I had a malfunctioning gun I didn't want to do anything to reduce the recoil. Now that it is running, I don't want to make it not run.

I wouldn't mind a smoother running gun, do I need more flash flaring up? Particularly my handloads seem to flash quite a bit.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Kahrtalk where information comes from the heart and head but has to be re-translated.

[firedude]

Hey firedude i to own a cm40 got it right after christmas and have just under 1000 threw it and have of.course had a few problems with but tthe ftf happebd mostley onchambering first roundt.it.was jam took the the.range one day.came back and cleaned it.using a.earcleaner i.relized it snaggged on something on the bullit channle sprry dont no technicle names oppsit of the extractor the.bullit wore a grove akd there was a burr.stickin out just.enouph to.touch the.bullit and.cause.a.problem very carefull filled.itdown gun runs just.flawless i.can.run hundreds.of rounds a session no problems broke.one follower at round 150 then havent broke one.since bought a.couple extra just incase.easyer that way
Thanks for the reply. Mine has never been on first round. Usually mid mag. Looked at my feedramp and chamber and it looks clean. I am waiting on a new follower and will test extractor mod. Tension was so tight I am thinking this might do it. Thanks again.

[jocko]

Only cowboys can say yahoo Jocko, I'm not sure what sheep abusers say but I'm sure you'll think of something inappropriate.

Maybe it's an imitation of a back up buzzer on a truck.

talk it is called baahoo!! Just sayin:amflag: Must I explain everything to you??? Just sayin

[jocko]

Do you see my point. With the porting, some if not most of the energy is released at the port. In the 4 years I had a malfunctioning gun I didn't want to do anything to reduce the recoil. Now that it is running, I don't want to make it not run.

I wouldn't mind a smoother running gun, do I need more flash flaring up? Particularly my handloads seem to flash quite a bit.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Kahrtalk where information comes from the heart and head but has to be re-translated.

some by magna ports test is around 6% drop in velocity, certainly not most. Porting will not effect reliability:amflag:

[jocko]

Thanks for the reply. Mine has never been on first round. Usually mid mag. Looked at my feedramp and chamber and it looks clean. I am waiting on a new follower and will test extractor mod. Tension was so tight I am thinking this might do it. Thanks again.

sure doesn't sound like extractor issues but if u do the mod, just take off no ore than about .020 off t he long rod i thge extractor channel. and t hem polish thgat extractor eally good. takeing off this smll amunt will not screw things up either, but it will releave some tenstion, and at the worst u have just runed that rod which is replaceable. When u see fromn custom gun smiths the word "tensioning" the extractor, this is what tey are doing. :Amflag2:

[firedude]

sure doesn't sound like extractor issues but if u do the mod, just take off no ore than about .020 off t he long rod i thge extractor channel. and t hem polish thgat extractor eally good. takeing off this smll amunt will not screw things up either, but it will releave some tenstion, and at the worst u have just runed that rod which is replaceable. When u see fromn custom gun smiths the word "tensioning" the extractor, this is what tey are doing. :Amflag2:
Thanks for the reply. I have already done the mod. Just rounded the edge and smoothed it to a nice radius. Going out to shoot it now. I am very familiar with tensioning and tuning the edge on the 1911 extractors. Have also done a little with a couple Glocks. We will see how I did with my Kahr.

[firedude]

Update. Was hoping follower would come in this week as I called Monday and they said they would send one right out. It didn't. I bought a new mag at LGS so I could go out today and try her out. I did the radius of the extractor (thanks 100 percent for the tip) and did take a small amount off the feed ramp and re-polished it. So out with another 200 rounds today. No more failures to feed. Only issues were a couple slide lock opens. Pretty sure that was me getting lazy with hand placement. No follower breakage. Feeling better about the gun I come home and clean it. Take recoil assembly out and notice the outer spring is all bent up and the nut that holds the inner rod together is missing. So much for the better feeling. Hopefuly customer service will send me one. I do not have much faith in this gun at all. Was wanting it for a pocket carry back up. No feeling it.

[muggsy]

I love ported guns.

Only a girly man would port a 9MM. Just sayin.

[100percent]

Rather than port my 40 and loose 50 fps. I think I will load my 40s for 50fps less.

[wyntrout]

Hey! I bought a ported barrel for my P9 while they were on sale and just stuck with carrying it like that. I WAS thinking about my Wife at the time, but she can't rack the Kahrs.

Now my Mag-na-ported P40 is going to be my main carry again. I was doing well with it and the Laserlyte training setup... even at 30 ft. When I DID miss, I could tell what I was doing wrong. :D

My Glock 40 is a G23C... the factory ported one. The Kahr ported barrel has no upward flash... thrown forward and away... not quite as much recoil reduction that way, either.

Wynn:)

[stoshmo]

Hey firedude my guid rod assembly did the same thing with the outer spring dident lose the nut but the spring started bending and coiling over itself called kahr and got another assembly and so far so good kahrs cs has ben great for me so far but give it time for ur free parts took three weeks to get my replacment follower and three weeks for the guid rod aseembly they got alot going on so it takes time just have paintents if u need one now go on ebay there is someguy who has a guidrod ass and new slide lock spring for sale for 15 dollers unfortently the rod assembly is to short atleast was for me cause its the rout i took and i was just on there and seein he had more but i could use the front spring and u could use the nut off that assembly and it took like two days to get.it really does turn out to be a great firearm dont give up on it

[jocko]

Rather than port my 40 and loose 50 fps. I think I will load my 40s for 50fps less.

make sense but just not sure it works that way..

[jocko]

Only a girly man would port a 9MM. Just sayin.

and ur point???numnuts.:banplease:

[jocko]

Update. Was hoping follower would come in this week as I called Monday and they said they would send one right out. It didn't. I bought a new mag at LGS so I could go out today and try her out. I did the radius of the extractor (thanks 100 percent for the tip) and did take a small amount off the feed ramp and re-polished it. So out with another 200 rounds today. No more failures to feed. Only issues were a couple slide lock opens. Pretty sure that was me getting lazy with hand placement. No follower breakage. Feeling better about the gun I come home and clean it. Take recoil assembly out and notice the outer spring is all bent up and the nut that holds the inner rod together is missing. So much for the better feeling. Hopefuly customer service will send me one. I do not have much faith in this gun at all. Was wanting it for a pocket carry back up. No feeling it.

will send u a new recoil assembly. if u can take a photo of it, send it to kahr attn: Jay. Those recoil assembly come fully assembly by the vendor to kahr. they are supposed to be locktited on but evidently urs was not.:banplease: Notice thought the gun still functioned with this missing nut. Not sure I could loose faith ovber that missing nut, but again I ain't u either.:third:

[100percent]

Wyn
Is your ported barrel longer than the slide so that the gases have someplace to go?

[100percent]

Good advice jocky
I saw someone was able to put a nut on end of the inner recoil rod. I think they filed the nut down a bit but maybe they wouldn't need to.


will send u a new recoil assembly. if u can take a photo of it, send it to kahr attn: Jay. Those recoil assembly come fully assembly by the vendor to kahr. they are supposed to be locktited on but evidently urs was not.:banplease: Notice thought the gun still functioned with this missing nut. Not sure I could loose faith ovber that missing nut, but again I ain't u either.:third:

[jocko]

wyn, I think made his own replacement nut...

[firedude]

Called customer service. They were very nice again and said they would send out a recoil spring assembly. Still have not received the new follower. The gun did function without the nut although it did ruin the recoil spring. I am just not used to so many issues with a new gun. Well except for my new Nano that is. Thanks again for replies.