I was selected in a "checkpoint" Sat

[CJB]

Driving thru Florida, on a backroad... but well traveled backroad close to Sanford, I got into traffic mess that turned out to be a checkpoint.

I'm being a little coy about the exact locale. If you want specifics PM me and I'll be happy to provide them. However, the checkpoint involved (at least), county sheriff, Florida Highway Patrol and DEA.

So..... I get to the front of the line - "Can we please see your license?" I show it, expecting to get waved through. Nope. Please turn into the parking area and await instructions. Can I have my license back. No, I'll get it back later.

So I'm guided to park on the rigth in a dirt lot next to a low bridge. Officer Friendly asks me to get out of my truck. I get out. Am I carrying weapons? Yes, and I tell him what and where and that I'm licensed to carry. He asks that I place the weapons, using two fingers only, onto the hood of my truck. I do. The he askes that I step back, and I get a terry frisk. Ok, please sit in the police car. So I sit in the open back of the FHP car, with my feet on the ground. No handcuffs or anything... just sitting. Officer Friendly takes the magazine out of my PM 45 and plays with my Gerber switchblade a little. Clearly he liked the knife and I thought it was gonna go byebye. Officer Friendly does not clear the chamber on my PM 45.

They've got about a dozen cars they're working in theis group, and finallly get to me. Where are the drugs, just tell us and make things simple. Sorry Officer, no drugs, and I don't consent to searches, and I don't want to talk with you, and am I free to go?

No you are not free to go. We'll be back.

I sit there about fifteen minutes, and another LEO comes to me. Listen, just co-operate and tell us what you have and it won't be so bad, drive away or at worst just a slap on the wrist. I tell him the same thing - no searches, no talking and am I free to go.

Another ten minutes and LEO #4 comes over, and says.... we're going to administer a breathalizer. Oh cool. I'm 56 years old and never done that! So he puts a little thing on the short tube and is careful to put on new blue gloves and such, and he holds it and I blow into the little tube. He walks away.

LEO #2 or #3... cant remember.... he comes back and says I tested positive for cannabis, and they'd have to search my truck, so rather than have it taken all apart just tell them where the drugs are and make it easy. I looks that stupid motherlover in the eye and say... not on that blow test I didn't! You cannot search. You have no probable cause, and you're fishing.

He leaves. Another ten minutes later, I'm told the dogs will perform a permiter search of my truck. They do. The dog sticks its head in my open window. I was only about 30 feet from this, saw it all.

Another ten minutes go by... LEO #4 (I think) comes over and tells me that the dogs hit positive on my truck and they they were going to imound it and dismantle it, but I could save that from happening if I told them where the drugs were. I looked that ugly and bad breathed LEO in the eye and informed him that if the dogs hit on my truck, they'd be in there already and he was also fishing.

Fifteen minutes go bye. Ok I'm free to leave. Officer hands back my license. I went to my truck, PM45 still on the hood, and the Gerber too. He asks me to get in the truck, I ask about my weapons. Get in the truck and we'll hand them to you.

So bright boy takes all the ammo out of the magazine. He hands me the magazine and the PM 45 and tells me to put them into the glove box. I didn't have the heart to tell him that the chamber was still loaded.... and it later turned out it was. I got the knife, and after the pistol was in the glove box, I got the ammo back and got the hell out.

During this time..... there was a constant stream of incoming cars to the lot. In fact... every time they cleared out someone, they took a new one from the checkpoint, keeping about fiffeen cars being "worked" at all times.

I dunno what. I think they got some Federal OT money and were just having a little ball busting fun. It litereally took over an hour, and it was about the same for everyone. Cars and trucks were getting searched manually - so I know there werer folks who gave permission. Dogs were outside and inside vehicles. Trunks were open, stuff was on the ground.

Hey so I hope everyone else had a great Saturday too!

[muggsy]

Your talking to the wrong people. You should be talking to the State Attorney General and your congressman. At the very least a civil liberties lawyer. Sounds like an interesting evening. The cop owes you five rounds of ammo. :)

[knkali]

wow just wow. THIS is exactly the kind of sheet that people should be furious over but let it happen and actually many don't think of their 4th amendment at all when it happens to them. Instead, they think it is for their own good. You handled that very well. You were guilty until proven innocent AND lied to in order to scare you into consenting.. Horrible to hear about this. It all started ,IMHO, with DUI checkpoints. That paved the way for more intrusive stops. Again at DUI checkpoints you are guilty until proven innocent. Yes, DUI checkpoints get DUI drivers off the road, but at what price to your rights? In Kalifornia, they have to give you a way around the checkpoint(DUI) so that you have an "option" and your rights are not violated that way. However, unless you know the area well around the checkpoint, and are looking hard for the escape route, you will miss it. Then they got you.

[berettabone]

My attorney would be contacting the district attorney on Monday......................

[CJB]

Nah. I got the ammo back. And I held fast.

[knkali]

Your talking to the wrong people. You should be talking to the State Attorney General and your congressman. At the very least a civil liberties lawyer. Sounds like an interesting evening. The cop owes you five rounds of ammo. :)
he got his ammo back per his story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXvgNsCMMEE

[knkali]

I give the law a lot of leeway. What I cannot tolerate is the lying by police to get what they want. When you blew + for cannabis. That's beyond reasonable. If I am not supposed to lie to the law why can they lie to me?

[jeepster09]

If my memory is correct this crap is legal per court ruling. As long as everyone going down that road is stopped they can do it, they can not randomly pull you over and do it with out probable cause. Our country has pretty much gone to......:target:
Elections have consequences! :80:

[MW surveyor]

Well, that I'll teach you from going down those "back roads"!

[knkali]

CJB, c'mon tell us you are an armed, dope smoking, illegal and we will let you post here. C'mon, just say it and you can post. You know you are. We can send Jocko to get your underwear so we will have a sheet sample, semen sample and blood sample or you can just say it. What's the matter? You want Jocko or we can make this easy.

[berettabone]

Maybe it was the I love weed t shirt;)

[Longitude Zero]

My attorney would be contacting the district attorney on Monday......................


Other than personal satisfaction it will in most jurisdictions do NO GOOD. The courts all the way up to SCOTUS have approved of this. You and I may not like it but it is the way it is.

[bob98366]

Consider a shorter version to send to the newspapers and TV news in your area with a copies to your US Senators, US Representative, the Governor, State representative, and County commissioners. Emphasize the repeated, willful lying by multiple armed government employees to a citizen/constituent and their disregard of a plain reading of the Constitution.

[CJB]

Send Jocko. I go commando

[kwh]

With 3 different law enforcement agencies I guess they wanted to get their monies worth from the traffic stop. Other than that. I am sitting here shaking my head.

[jeepster09]

Consider a shorter version to send to the newspapers and TV news in your area with a copies to your US Senators, US Representative, the Governor, State representative, and County commissioners. Emphasize the repeated, willful lying by multiple armed government employees to a citizen/constituent and their disregard of a plain reading of the Constitution.

Do you really think any of them will care?.....:amflag:
Not! You would be waisting your time and may end up with one of them getting a grudge against you. Again, be involved elections have consequences.

[CJB]

I was not in a particular hurry. Going to spend the weekend with a friend. Other than loss of time, I'm little worse for the wear, and at least I got to practice holding fast, not talking, and waiting it out. Useful skills in today's world. I'm not happy, but I'm not pissed either.

I'm still thinking this is one of those "programs" the Feds are putting out there. I've read about the "voluntary" cheek swab thing where they threaten and lie to get your DNA. This has got to be part of the same thing.

[TheTman]

You Tube has a BUNCH of videos, on dealing with Cops, and checkpoints and things. You might want to watch some of them. But it sounds like you stood your ground and did pretty dang good.
Some of them are videos of people going through checkpoints and filming with their phone camera. I don't think any criminals got away with anything, just ordinary citizens knowing and standing up for their rights.

[jocko]

that would really piss me off cjb, no matter how much authority they had. They were fishing or they would have had a warrant and searched ur vehicle after they towed it in. Knowing u were dressed in ur Sunday go to meetin cloths to, Sad but this **** is gonna happen. Not all cops are good cops, we know that.

What a stupid and I mean stupid ass cop to not unload or at least check the chamber ofr a live round. What a fokkin idiot. I think I might have brought that to his attention after they gave me back my gun to, but probalby u did the right thing buy shutting up and moving on.

[yqtszhj]

Other than loss of time, I'm little worse for the wear, and at least I got to practice holding fast, not talking, and waiting it out. Useful skills in today's world.


One thing I have debated in my mind about this is what if you have an officer that is less than clean and they get irritated and set you up. There was a recent case around here where a local small town asst. Chief was "coercing" confessions out of sure enough scum balls but was also raiding the evidence locker of drugs and weapons and selling them. Would that dude set me up? Maybe so...




I'm still thinking this is one of those "programs" the Feds are putting out there. I've read about the "voluntary" cheek swab thing where they threaten and lie to get your DNA. This has got to be part of the same thing.

I think your right.

[100percent]

This country is looking more like central america. I think Rush called it a Banana Republic.

[340pd]

CBJ: My take on this is, you handled it very correctly and professionally.

Good Job.

[Harrylee]

My wife always says I have a problem with authority, I never thought so if respect is given then there is no issues. I have seen this around my neck of the woods, did some work in the police station about two years ago and that township had a reputation of not being so friendly and after talking to some of them that was confirmed. And I was at the corner store and saw a local to my township, started to talk to him well 45 minutes later we both went on our way he ended being a real nice guy. In this is life there are good and not so good, I really don't mind talking to a cop if they talk to me as a person and I'm friendly to them I expect the same from them. So as Bobby Zimmerman said times are a change'n . We all do the best we can that is all we can do, sorry to hear you had to go thru this but at least you got to walk away with no further harm

[jocko]

One thing I have debated in my mind about this is what if you have an officer that is less than clean and they get irritated and set you up. There was a recent case around here where a local small town asst. Chief was "coercing" confessions out of sure enough scum balls but was also raiding the evidence locker of drugs and weapons and selling them. Would that dude set me up? Maybe so...




I think your right.

tell m e that ain't so:banplease: would that be like a throw down gun???? Just sayin. That only happens in story books---doesn't it:third:

[b4uqzme]

One thing I have debated in my mind about this is what if you have an officer that is less than clean and they get irritated and set you up. There was a recent case around here where a local small town asst. Chief was "coercing" confessions out of sure enough scum balls but was also raiding the evidence locker of drugs and weapons and selling them. Would that dude set me up? Maybe so...
.

My coke dealer in college was a cop. Real reliable. I liked doing business with him. :rolleyes:

[CJB]

Some further revelation..... because when I wrote that all down it was very early today, and I'd been up till 330am helping a hoarder out with tossing stuff (oh much fun there too!!)

First, I cannot say enough that I really respect LE and the job that the LEO's do on all of our behalf to get the job done in an increasingly hard to deal with society.

Next... of all those hard working LEO's trying to do the right thing, I'm convinced that there is not one of them who would turn down the gig that I was part of, on moral or consitutional grounds. I'm convinced they all knew exactly what they were doing, coercing folks, or me at least. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it was an excersize in getting folks to comply with 4th Amendment relaxation for the benefit of LE. And to that I say bollocks! I love those guys, and only wish I knew ONE that would say "I ain't doing it, it ain't right", and even, dare I imagine, blow the whistle on the shennanigans.

Fact is, cops lie as much as the bad guys. They need to play mind games to get what they want. Do you realize how much fun it was really... REALLY... after observing what was happening, to tell the regular guy LEO that he was on a fishin' trip? An act of ballsiness by me? No, it was evident that these guys were co-ordinated in what they were doing, and it all stunk. And, I let them know it. Good cop/bad cop, lies, deception, letting you know a little so you might think one way or another.... its all a mind game.

And I realize that this was not one LEO but a program of LEO's in order for there to be an interdepartmental, inter agency coordination of resources. Now it could be.... that the guys there were the more experienced and such, and they were there to learn and pass along what they learned to the rest of the staff. Could be. I dunno. It wouldn't stun me to find that out.

And finally - I realized this evening that they completely took my word for having a carry permit. That and the loaded chamber... makes me wonder just WTF was really going on. It was almost like all of that was of second or third or fourth... importance to their main objective, which I feel was how to use deception, and gain access legally with its employment.

[knkali]

Some further revelation..... because when I wrote that all down it was very early today, and I'd been up till 330am helping a hoarder out with tossing stuff (oh much fun there too!!)

First, I cannot say enough that I really respect LE and the job that the LEO's do on all of our behalf to get the job done in an increasingly hard to deal with society.

Next... of all those hard working LEO's trying to do the right thing, I'm convinced that there is not one of them who would turn down the gig that I was part of, on moral or consitutional grounds. I'm convinced they all knew exactly what they were doing, coercing folks, or me at least. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it was an excersize in getting folks to comply with 4th Amendment relaxation for the benefit of LE. And to that I say bollocks! I love those guys, and only wish I knew ONE that would say "I ain't doing it, it ain't right", and even, dare I imagine, blow the whistle on the shennanigans.

Fact is, cops lie as much as the bad guys. They need to play mind games to get what they want. Do you realize how much fun it was really... REALLY... after observing what was happening, to tell the regular guy LEO that he was on a fishin' trip? An act of ballsiness by me? No, it was evident that these guys were co-ordinated in what they were doing, and it all stunk. And, I let them know it. Good cop/bad cop, lies, deception, letting you know a little so you might think one way or another.... its all a mind game.

And I realize that this was not one LEO but a program of LEO's in order for there to be an interdepartmental, inter agency coordination of resources. Now it could be.... that the guys there were the more experienced and such, and they were there to learn and pass along what they learned to the rest of the staff. Could be. I dunno. It wouldn't stun me to find that out.

And finally - I realized this evening that they completely took my word for having a carry permit. That and the loaded chamber... makes me wonder just WTF was really going on. It was almost like all of that was of second or third or fourth... importance to their main objective, which I feel was how to use deception, and gain access legally with its employment.

Thank you for your thoughts and sharing. I sort of thought along the lines of what you just wrote when I read the op. Thanks for saying it. I think we are in a very unique time. Threats and subsequent attacks, when they happen, seem to be more aggressive and more fatal. In short the world is a more violent one in the U.S. People are afraid and are willing to give up rights to feel protected. Is this the illuminati at work? I don't think so. Instead it is a knee jerk reaction to the violence and mayhem in our world. What are we going to do? The SCOTUS have given the nod to this sort of thing happening. What do you do when the ultimate court in the land is against your liberties? Thoughts?

[muggsy]

I give the law a lot of leeway. What I cannot tolerate is the lying by police to get what they want. When you blew + for cannabis. That's beyond reasonable. If I am not supposed to lie to the law why can they lie to me?

Because they are the police and it's ok for them to lie to you. They lie to people all of the time. Lying a part of their job. It's their job to catch criminals. You have a 1st and 4th amendment to protect you. It's your job to know your rights.

[SGT5711]

I have been in law enforcement for over 15 years and I have never heard of such a thing. What sort of checkpoint was this? It sounds like they were specifically looking for drugs, but drug checkpoints are illegal. If it were me, I would raise hell about this incident.

Here is a link to a site which discusses different types of checkpoints and your rights:

www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/my-rights-at-checkpoints/

[Longitude Zero]

Because they are the police and it's ok for them to lie to you. They lie to people all of the time. Lying a part of their job. It's their job to catch criminals. You have a 1st and 4th amendment to protect you. It's your job to know your rights.


Quite correct. I is a legitimate tactic that is used all the time. Courts recognize and encourage it.

[knkali]

Because they are the police and it's ok for them to lie to you. They lie to people all of the time. Lying a part of their job. It's their job to catch criminals. You have a 1st and 4th amendment to protect you. It's your job to know your rights.
OK I accept that statement completely BUT what do you do when the 1st and 4th amendment is NOT being upheld by the SCOTUS? That is the real thrust of this thread. The facts remain that there are DUI checkpoints, "drug" checkpoints, immigration checkpoints(not on our border). The genie has been let out of the bottle. How the hell do you get it back in? Vote? That doesn't seem to be working. In fact, I don't think many citizens really give dang about this to be truthful. It is just that this board houses a group of individuals that get it when the G becomes too powerful from our own gun struggles.

[knkali]

Quite correct. I is a legitimate tactic that is used all the time. Courts recognize and encourage it.
Courts encourage it? How?

[TheTman]

If police lie to you, it's just part of the job. If a politician lies to you it's just politics.

If YOU lie to the police or to the Govt. it's a Felony. That's real fair isn't it.

And cops have been known to seize drugs, and tell you I'm going to let you off this time, and then turn around and use or sell the drugs. I think that is not that uncommon. Particularly in the small towns.
The chief of Police in a local town nearby had a wife that was a cokehead/druggie that took anything to get high. All the drugs he seized went to his wife. Everyone in town knew it too, but since he was so easy going, no one raised much of a stink about it. And he was letting kids off instead of arresting them on drug charges, so parents supported him, and accepted the situation. The have a very lucrative speed trap, where a 2 lane highway, goes past their town, and the speed limit drops from 65 too 50, and they almost always have someone pulled over. The local police, the Sheriff, and the Highway Patrol, argue over who gets to set up the speed trap on different days. Usually the Highway Patrol wins, next the Sheriff, and then the local guys come in last. I've seen them with the K-9 units, and luggage spread all over the side of the road where they are going through it, and all sorts of crap. That is for sure one spot you don't want to speed through even if you are totally legal. As you WILL get hassled and accused of transporting drugs.

[AIRret]

CJB, I think you did an excellent job. You stood your ground and didn't loose your temper.
Any perceived disrespect would have only delayed you longer.

And yes the courts have supported "Cops Lying", when they are not under oath.

[getsome]

I agree CJB did a nice job keeping cool under that kind of scrutiny....I went through a DUI checkpoint last year and the officer asked if I had been drinking and where I had been...He asked about guns, knives and hand grenades and I told him yes I was armed and he asked for my permit which I gave him...He said roll down your passenger window and keep your hands in plain sight which I did...

Next thing I know a huge German Shepard was in my passenger window barking and slobering all over the interior of my pickup....When the dog got down I heard toe nails against paint which pissed me off then the dog went with the K9 cop to the back of my truck and jumped up on the tail gate and again that screaching toe nail sound when the got down....

Cop comes to my window and gives me my license and CCW permit back and said have a nice evening....I keep my truck looking nice but to this day I can see the marks on the passenger door and tailgate....

IMHO this so called "War on Drugs" is not so much about getting drugs off the street but more about vehicle and property confiscation, the proceeds of which go directly to the department kitty and I'm pretty sure they don't give the same scrutiny to a 74 Plymouth Duster that they would to a 2014 Cadillac Escalade that may or may not have a pot seed in it....As in all things, Follow the Money....

[knkali]

I agree CJB did a nice job keeping cool under that kind of scrutiny....I went through a DUI checkpoint last year and the officer asked if I had been drinking and where I had been...He asked about guns, knives and hand grenades and I told him yes I was armed and he asked for my permit which I gave him...He said roll down your passenger window and keep your hands in plain sight which I did...

Next thing I know a huge German Shepard was in my passenger window barking and slobering all over the interior of my pickup....When the dog got down I heard toe nails against paint which pissed me off then the dog went with the K9 cop to the back of my truck and jumped up on the tail gate and again that screaching toe nail sound when the got down....

Cop comes to my window and gives me my license and CCW permit back and said have a nice evening....I keep my truck looking nice but to this day I can see the marks on the passenger door and tailgate....

IMHO this so called "War on Drugs" is not so much about getting drugs off the street but more about vehicle and property confiscation, the proceeds of which go directly to the department kitty and I'm pretty sure they don't give the same scrutiny to a 74 Plymouth Duster that they would to a 2014 Cadillac Escalade that may or may not have a pot seed in it....As in all things, Follow the Money....
Doesn't that dog sniffing around INSIDE your car constitute a search? See how insidious this stuff gets? I guess when you went through the checkpoint you automatically consent to a search. At least in Kalifornia it is like that.

[knkali]

If police lie to you, it's just part of the job. If a politician lies to you it's just politics.

If YOU lie to the police or to the Govt. it's a Felony. That's real fair isn't it.


Nope.

[Longitude Zero]

Courts encourage it? How?


By court decisions that have said the police have ZERO DUTY to be honest in order to pursue the criminal element. Defense attornies know better than to try and bring it up as it always blows up in their clients faces.


It is similar to folks who get pissed off when the police drive 120mph to catch a speeding driver at 90mph. Same logic applies. Sometimes when you are trying to catch a liar the police have to lie in order to get to the truth. Like it or not it is the way it is and will never change.

[garyb]

Interesting story. Fishing for sure. You are lucky they did not plant something and make things worse for you. I had a similar incident year ago, from a DEC officer who checked me and my vehicle when I came out of the woods after dark following a bow hunt. He was bound and determined to find something....illegal deer, illegal broadhead, firearm, alcohol, anything. I let him search and cooperated completely. He had no right to search, but I was on the up and up and acted friendly through the entire event. I could tell he was very disappointed when he let me go. Thanks for sharing your story.

[knkali]

By court decisions that have said the police have ZERO DUTY to be honest in order to pursue the criminal element. Defense attornies know better than to try and bring it up as it always blows up in their clients faces.


It is similar to folks who get pissed off when the police drive 120mph to catch a speeding driver at 90mph. Same logic applies. Sometimes when you are trying to catch a liar the police have to lie in order to get to the truth. Like it or not it is the way it is and will never change.


Understood, but you used the wording "criminal element" That would lead to me to believe that someone is wanted for something that has been in violation of the law. Rolling up on a checkpoint would then require all people to be assumed as guilty in order to argue that lying is needed to apprehend the "criminals" that are traveling through the checkpoint. I think that the presumption of guilt is a very dangerous road to hoe for all parties involved. Because the majority of people are committing no crime when passing through(not a criminal element), the need to lie is not justified in my mind and further punctuates an abuse of authority. Looking for the serial rapist or the drug dealer yes, lying to LZ's 80 yo father so they can fish is another matter entirely.

[Bawanna]

I suspect and I'll have to wash my mouth out with soap for saying this but there was a lot of profiling going on at that check point.

I suspect CJB had a few whiskers, something that cued these rookie profilers to thinking he was dirty.

At that point they put the pressure on to make something happen. One down fall to rookie profilers is everybody gets swept with the same broom. Good guys in the mix.

In my youth racing motorcycles we raced in Canada every two weeks. Just the other side of the border but of course you still gotta go through customs. After a couple years of this the guards know when they see tons of bikes on trailers it's race night.

Never got pulled aside, never searched but just forget to shave for a few days and the questioning was longer and more thorough.

Have a friend, nice guy, good guy, but full beard and slightly long hair for his age. He gets pulled aside and searched nearly every time without fail.

[knkali]

I suspect and I'll have to wash my mouth out with soap for saying this but there was a lot of profiling going on at that check point.

I suspect CJB had a few whiskers, something that cued these rookie profilers to thinking he was dirty.

At that point they put the pressure on to make something happen. One down fall to rookie profilers is everybody gets swept with the same broom. Good guys in the mix.

In my youth racing motorcycles we raced in Canada every two weeks. Just the other side of the border but of course you still gotta go through customs. After a couple years of this the guards know when they see tons of bikes on trailers it's race night.

Never got pulled aside, never searched but just forget to shave for a few days and the questioning was longer and more thorough.

Have a friend, nice guy, good guy, but full beard and slightly long hair for his age. He gets pulled aside and searched nearly every time without fail.


Good point. I automatically think all on this board look and behave like angels from heaven.

[Bawanna]

But, but, but, even that greasy biker jockstrap or whatever his name is and his side kick coffee mug?

[jocko]

good thing cjb is white, as no one cares kwhat a white person rights are . I even shave under my armpitsj, just sayin. and kwhen I go through a car wash, I sit on the hood also. I take no chances. Now if cjb had been riding a honder, they would have just waved him through to.

Course colonel u outta know profiles, u hae profiled me since day one and you have never seen me (to ur knowledge).

by the way my riding boots are sheep lined, just sayin.

[getsome]

Hush Lambies?

[knkali]

But, but, but, even that greasy biker jockstrap or whatever his name is and his side kick coffee mug?
yes...angels