Should I hold out for a CM45?

[tycoonbob]

So my first handgun (minus a couple .22LR's) was a Kahr CW45. I still have it, and I love it. While I don't have my CCDW yet, I bought this gun for IWB carry purposes. I've been shooting a lot, learning, and have a few other firearms now and like most, am addicted to shooting.

I recently purchased a Tanfoglio Witness Elite Match in 9mm as a target gun and/or range toy. Fact is, I love the gun and plan to buy the 10mm conversion kit. I will probably carry the Witness in 10mm when I open carry (15+1 capacity), and the CW45 when I conceal IWB.

This has me thinking about the times I can't open carry, or times that IWB isn't an option so I'm looking into pocket carry options just to cover all basis. Whatever pocket carry I choose, may also end up being a secondary on the ankle. I know the CM45 has been announced, but not shipping yet, but I'm trying to decide between the CM9 and CM45. I'm not in any hurry, so I have no problem waiting for the CM45, but I'm mainly concerned that it will have too much of a punch to control. I'm a bigger guy (6'2", 260lbs) and have no problem at all shooting 250 rounds through my CW45 within a 30 minute period. Wrists don't hurt, and accuracy doesn't noticeably drop. Will the CM45 kick much more than the CW45, or is it too soon to tell? I know the CM45 is a tad bigger than the CM9, but will the CM45 be a pocket carry option? I think ideally I'd like to carry it in my back pocket in some sort of leather or nylon sleeve.

Thoughts?

[JERRY]

I say no. my PM45 needed some work well beyond what they did at the factory in order for it to run properly; I can only imagine an econo version needing even more attention.

[wyntrout]

My PM45 is fun to shoot, but I wouldn't consider it a pocket pistol. It's a bit large to stick in jean pockets... maybe generous cargo shorts or pants will work.

That's why I'm hanging onto my PM9... just in case. I use my P380 for shorts pocket carry when I'm at the doctor's office and may have to disrobe... especially at my dermatologist's. :eek: In that case, I have my P380 in a soft Uncle Mike's holster and move it from IWB to my pocket so I can hang it up with my shorts.

Wynn:)

[kwh]

The CM9 for a little different reason. The bullets for a short barrel 9mm seem to out perform the bullets shot from a 3" .45 barrel and the 3 1/2 " barrel is marginal. I know the saying the .45 will never shrink, but I would prefer a jagged .6" hole that also penetrates than a smooth .45" hole that will also waste energy if it does not expand and over penetrates.

[wyntrout]

You're using the wrong bullets! Speer makes the Short Barrel version of their Gold Dots for that reason. The 230 grain Short Barrel Gold Dot is a wider deeper cavity and the powder used is for short barreled pistols.

There's a big difference between their regular Gold Dot and the short barreled version.

My post and pictures:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=16416&highlight=bonded+bullets

A quick picture:

On the left is the GDSB , the middle the regular GD, and the right is the Bonded Remington Golden Saber, 230-grain versions.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7141&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1356728803

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

The Federal 230-gr HST seems to work in short barrels, too.

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/11/clear-gel-terminal-testing-federal.html

And in the 3" Double Tap derringer:

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2013/09/doubletap-45-carry-ammo-testing.html

And... here's a comparison of the regular 230-gr vs. the short barrel Gold Dots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoH4CMg1Shg

Wynn:)

[TheTman]

The biggest trouble with the CM45, is they don't exist. Has anyone here seen one?
I saw some websites advertising them, but every one was listed as out of stock.
I don't know if they were getting the page ready for the CM45 in case they get their hands on some, or if they actually got some in and sold them.
Searching the Auction Sites, and several of the bigger online retailers, I couldn't not find ONE for sale. I did run across some CW45's mislabeled as CM45 on Armlist, but in the pictures you can clearly see that it is a CW45. What really ticked me off was I was able to find several places with the CT40 and 45 in stock. I would think a company should produce the products they introduced over a year ago, before producing something announced in the last few months. :mad:

[tycoonbob]

@TheTman -- Kahr has not started shipping the CM45 just yet, but will be soon from my research. Again, waiting a few weeks, or even a few months for one, is not a problem for me. I won't be taking my CCDW class for another 3 weeks, so it will be at least 3 months before I can legally carry concealed, which means I'll be open carrying for at least the next three months.

To others regarding .45 performance from a short barrel, I did watch one of the videos listed above regarding the Speer gold dot regular vs short barrel, which is very interesting. I didn't even realize this type of ammo existed. I will say that if I am ever in a situation where I needed to pull and use my firearm, it will likely be at 10 yards or less (probably more like 7 or less). Any further than that, I will turn and run. JHP are a definite, but I would think at 7 yards or less with a JHP through a CM45 (or PM45 for comparison sake), accuracy and penetration would be plentiful.

I'm more so concerned about controlling the CM45, as in if it would be too much to control.

Dimensions wise, the CM45 has a .24" longer barrel, and is .37" longer O/A. The CM45 is also .11" thicker, and .49" taller. Those are definitely small numbers, but the CM45 is bigger in every direction. I am sure the CM9 would be easier to conceal in a pocket, but I really really want to go for the CM45 (only if it make sense). I choose .45ACP as my carry/defensive round, and want to standardize on that, so to speak (I'll chalk this up to a mild case of OCD). I know I would only carry in my back pocket if wearing jeans/shorts, or in the cargo pocket of cargo shorts. I carry my wallet in my front pocket, which is why I'd be carrying in my rear pocket. What's it like to sit on a PM45 for an hour at a time? lol.

[Rubb]

You'll find a 380 would be a better choice for back pocket carry.
Go to the LGS and try a few, most will let you drop it in your pocket.

[b4uqzme]

Agreed. I don't see anyone carrying a CM45 in their back pocket but who knows? But to answer your question: buy a CM9 now because you will love it. Then put some money aside to buy a CM45 when they are available because you will love that too and paying the rent is overrated. ;)

P.S. and buy a CW380 too because that will actually fit in your back pocket. But be careful. Two months behind on your rent might get you kicked out. :rolleyes:

[kwh]

The Federal 230-gr HST seems to work in short barrels, too.

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/11/clear-gel-terminal-testing-federal.html

And in the 3" Double Tap derringer:

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2013/09/doubletap-45-carry-ammo-testing.html

And... here's a comparison of the regular 230-gr vs. the short barrel Gold Dots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoH4CMg1Shg

Wynn:)
Where can the Federal HST in .45 be found? Anybody with info on which bullet may feed the best? Speer (found some=lucky) vs. Federal?

[Rubb]

http://www.sgammo.com/product/federal/50-rd-box-45-auto-federal-hst-230-grain-hp-hollow-point-le-ammo-p45hst2

[tycoonbob]

Thanks everyone.

I'm not interested in the CW380, as I only shoot/buy .22LR, 9MM, and .45ACP in semi-auto pistols (plus .357, .38, and .44 for revolvers). I like to keep my calibers simple when it comes to stocking ammo.

If I purchased a CM9, it wouldn't be for a few more weeks anyway, but I don't know if any shops around here will get a CM45 anytime soon. I believe KyGunCo is the only shop near to me that carries Kahr, but I may be wrong.

If the CM45/PM45 isn't a pocket carry, what is it's purpose compared to the CW45/P45? Just a smaller concealed piece?

[Rubb]

Back pocket and front pocket carry are two different animals.

[kwh]

http://www.sgammo.com/product/federal/50-rd-box-45-auto-federal-hst-230-grain-hp-hollow-point-le-ammo-p45hst2
Thanks. Unavailable here for over a year both locally and gun shows.

[O'Dell]

I had a PM45 and put over 500 rounds through it w/o a problem before it was stolen. I have been waiting for sometime for the CM45, but would really prefer an MK45. The Pm is a bit large for front pocket carry, but works quite well in an inside jacket pocket. I carried it in that manner for almost a year.

[JERRY]

im sold on the Kahr 9mm guns; ive owned the K9, MK9 and still own the PM9, all have been 100% out of the box. I will stick with the guns they are better at making. still looking for a local PM9/CM9 for trades....

[tycoonbob]

Well, after lots of deliberation, I pulled the trigger (pun intended) on a CM9. I ordered it from Buds for $365, shipped (I live in KY, so I had to pay tax) but still not a bad price. I've decided that I am going to attempt rear pocket carry with it, using one of these cases:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CONCEALED-CARRY-HOLSTER-UNIQUE-INNOVATIVE-DESIGN-RUGER-LCP-KELTEC-TAURUS-380-/191165898498?pt=US_Holsters&var=&hash=item2c82601f02

I really like the design, and have high hopes for it. I wear a size 40, and the question on that item from May 14 is from me, and they said on average, any pants larger than a 36 generally will work with that size case. If all else, they have a belt clip that works with this case as well, so I'm sure I will end up buying that too:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Concealed-Carry-Holster-Belt-Carrier-/191165425641?

Thoughts on the case? Anyone tried one of these specifics cases, or something similar?

I'm probably going to end up buying a Tanfoglio Witness Steel Compact 10mm as an open carry/in the hills firearm, and use the CM9 as my daily CC.

Now I just need to figure out where my CW45 fits in!

[Pointblank]

My P45 is not hard to control and not very punishing either. My first day on the range with it I put 200 rounds through it if that tells you anything, no malfunctions either.

[jocko]

Well, after lots of deliberation, I pulled the trigger (pun intended) on a CM9. I ordered it from Buds for $365, shipped (I live in KY, so I had to pay tax) but still not a bad price. I've decided that I am going to attempt rear pocket carry with it, using one of these cases:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CONCEALED-CARRY-HOLSTER-UNIQUE-INNOVATIVE-DESIGN-RUGER-LCP-KELTEC-TAURUS-380-/191165898498?pt=US_Holsters&var=&hash=item2c82601f02

I really like the design, and have high hopes for it. I wear a size 40, and the question on that item from May 14 is from me, and they said on average, any pants larger than a 36 generally will work with that size case. If all else, they have a belt clip that works with this case as well, so I'm sure I will end up buying that too:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Concealed-Carry-Holster-Belt-Carrier-/191165425641?

Thoughts on the case? Anyone tried one of these specifics cases, or something similar?

I'm probably going to end up buying a Tanfoglio Witness Steel Compact 10mm as an open carry/in the hills firearm, and use the CM9 as my daily CC.

Now I just need to figure out where my CW45 fits in!

do the kahr prep and the kahr lube chart, both are excellent and should make that first trip a good one, assume nuthing is right, check everything ober before going oout and may be waisting a good shoot. Also u ge tto know ur cm9 better to..:Amflag2:

[smokersteve]

I'm not sure about that case you posted. Never seen one. I pocket carry my cm9 a lot. Blackhawk makes a affordable one. I think I saw them at walmart the other day. You want size 3 or 4. Here is a link to them -
http://www.blackhawk.com/product/Sportster-Inside-The-Pocket-Holster,1793,1550.htm

[tycoonbob]

do the kahr prep and the kahr lube chart, both are excellent and should make that first trip a good one, assume nuthing is right, check everything ober before going oout and may be waisting a good shoot. Also u ge tto know ur cm9 better to..:Amflag2:

Thanks jocko. I assume the Kahr prep you're referring to is the exact same process I would have followed for my CW45? I've got over 500 rounds through my CW45 without a single problem (well cleaned and lubed before first fire, and cleaned after every shooting trip), other than Tula steel ammo won't go into battery.

Assuming the process is the same, and the CM9 is designed and built the same as the CW45, I shouldn't have a problem with the CM9.


I'm not sure about that case you posted. Never seen one. I pocket carry my cm9 a lot. Blackhawk makes a affordable one. I think I saw them at walmart the other day. You want size 3 or 4. Here is a link to them -
http://www.blackhawk.com/product/Sportster-Inside-The-Pocket-Holster,1793,1550.htm

Thanks smokersteve. I've also not seen this kind of case/holster before (the one I linked), but it looks like what I'm wanting. Something that fully encloses the pistol, and I can pull it out of my pocket (while in the case) without anyone around really knowing what it is. I also like the fact that when you open the top of the case, it has a level system that pushed the pistol up making it easy to grab. On paper, this case sounds fantastic, and I hope that the price reflects a quality product. I see myself pulling this out of my pocket when I get into my truck and putting it in a cup holder or the middle console, and back in my pocket when I get out of my truck.

My concern with holster/cases like you linked is that you could still see the rear of the pistol from the top of my pocket. The CM9 is more of a BUG/deep conceal, while chances are I will open carry more than conceal.

[smokersteve]

When I pocket carry it looks like a wallet in my pocket. It is nearly impossible to see the rear of the gun when pocket carrying, unless you have pockets that are not deep at all. Let us know how that case works out if you end up getting it.

[Acasper708]

I have a CW45 and my dad has a PM45.
We sized them up next to each other and the PM45 really isn't that much smaller. I want a smaller pocket pistol as well and don't think the CM45 is small enough.
I plan on getting a CM9, It is considerably smaller than the CM45.