CM 9 and shooting low.

[happypuppy]

My new cm 9 is a champ over 600 rounds and not a single issue with American eagle and mag tech 115 ball

However it is consistently about 4 inches low at 15'. It is a constant pretty tight group just low. After searching the internet it seems to not be uncommon

The suggestions were :

File the front sight down a bit
Use 124 or higher wt rounds
Use +p

The threads do not have a follow up on what worked. Has anyone else with the issue resolved it and if so how?


Just ' bout the action Boss...

[Rubb]

Shooting low is often a result of the long trigger pull.
I would shoot from a rested position before filing anything.
Front sight...front sight.

[happypuppy]

Shot from bench as well. Groups are tight, just low. I am wondering if the fact it's small is coming into play.

I am going to try shooting it like a j frame. I use the middle pad for that.

I suspect what maybe happening is I am pushing a bit sideways on the trigger vs back only.


Just ' bout the action Boss...

[getsome]

Shooting like a j frame with the first joint of your trigger finger really helped me with my Kahr pistols to keeping from pushing the front down due to the mechanics of the trigger pull on such a small framed gun....I've also never been a big fan of the dot the i front sight either so be sure you don't forget to keep an eye on the top of the front sight and don't get to concerned with the dot the i thing....If all else fails it's always an option to file off a little of the front sight or go to Dawson Precision and get a slightly shorter front night sight which would be an upgrade improvement and get you back to shooting POI.....

[jocko]

My new cm 9 is a champ over 600 rounds and not a single issue with American eagle and mag tech 115 ball

However it is consistently about 4 inches low at 15'. It is a constant pretty tight group just low. After searching the internet it seems to not be uncommon

The suggestions were :

File the front sight down a bit
Use 124 or higher wt rounds
Use +p

The threads do not have a follow up on what worked. Has anyone else with the issue resolved it and if so how?


Just ' bout the action Boss...

to make u mad but my bet is , it is shgooter error. get a half dozen snap caps and throw them in with 30 live rounds and let anutter person load ur magaizine for u, so u don't know if u hyave one 3 or none in the magazin.e this wills how u real fast what is going on. My bet it is the llllong trigger system and ur anticipationg the BANG thing and u just donow know ur pulling down ward. I have over 32K rounds through my PMJ9 and trust me I shoot low, I never shoot high, and when my wife puts some snap caps in the magazine, I damn near break the trigger off. Takes some time to get use dto a kahr.

Now one more thing to is: change ur sight picture, see more of the front sight, Basically IMO this ia a POA gun, point an dsoot forget tight grups, if u can keep um all in what I call the FBI "Q" target which is the outline of a bowling in with no bullesye, , keep allin there which is easy at ur distance and consider yourself good to go. In a SHTF situation ur neer gona se the front, back sight and then the target. Just ain't gonna happen. concentrate on the front site and go for it. If u getting thewrong site picture no finger control is gonn help u, If ur anticipating the bang thing, no finger position is gonna halep yuu. U need to eliminate the possabilities that I have mentioned before getting to ex cited. Keep us posted.:amflag:

If one never shot a double action wheelgun great, expect little difference in a kahr. Both have loooog trigger systems, by design and safety. They are fightin guns, not target guns. Just sayin

[pbagley]

My CM9 shoots high. With 115gr loads I can use a 6 o'clock hold on a standard 25 yard timed and rapid repair center at 25 yards and have the group centered on the x ring (usually at least one 8). With 124's the hits are higher. I tried some 135 gr Critical Defense loads and they were higher still.

Your rear sight may be lower than mine, or your front sight higher. If you are otherwise grouping well at 25 yards you may be able to eliminate shooting errors like wrist break.

[getsome]

Wow that's some good shootn....I can barely see the target at 25'....Like Jocko says, if you can put 2 or 3 into the middle at 7 feet you're good to go with these guns....These aren't target pistols. they are kill the BG before he kills you pistols and you should practice thusly....

[muggsy]

Have you ever considered changing your sight picture. The dot is supposed to cover the intended point of impact. If you are using a 6 o'clock hold that could be your problem. Kahr sights are combat sights, not target sights.

[pbagley]

Have you ever considered changing your sight picture. The dot is supposed to cover the intended point of impact. If you are using a 6 o'clock hold that could be your problem. Kahr sights are combat sights, not target sights.

I've used the same sight picture for more than 30 years. Changing now seems like a bad idea. I'm an old bullseye shooter, and consistency is how you make progress toward your accuracy goals. For me personally, I want to be able to put 10 for 10 onto a repair center at 25 yards with defensive ammo. This is my standard, I'm not dictating this for anyone else. Under stress I do not want to put any innocent bystanders in danger due to my limitations. This is why I practice with these little sub-compacts. That and I enjoy the challenge. The CM9 is most enjoyable since I seem to be able to group best with it - better than with a TCP, 642, or SCCY anyway. That said, I like shooting them all.

[muggsy]

I've used the same sight picture for more than 30 years. Changing now seems like a bad idea. I'm an old bullseye shooter, and consistency is how you make progress toward your accuracy goals. For me personally, I want to be able to put 10 for 10 onto a repair center at 25 yards with defensive ammo. This is my standard, I'm not dictating this for anyone else. Under stress I do not want to put any innocent bystanders in danger due to my limitations. This is why I practice with these little sub-compacts. That and I enjoy the challenge. The CM9 is most enjoyable since I seem to be able to group best with it - better than with a TCP, 642, or SCCY anyway. That said, I like shooting them all.

If that's your decision the only option you have is a lower front sight. You can black out the white dot and file down the front sight until you get the desired point of impact. Since the front sight of the CM9 is made of polymer it shouldn't be much of a challenge. Remove just a little at a time until you're happy with your point of impact. I'm an old bullseye shooter myself.

[skiflydive]

I agree with Muggsy. My CM9 shot low until I figured out to hide the bullseye with the front dot instead of on top of it like I learned 50 years ago. When I got my P380 it worked the same way. Put the dot on the target and bang away.

[happypuppy]

I am putting the dot on the center of the target. I am really comfortable shooting revolvers. I grew up with them, semi autos are relatively new.

My gut feeling is as one poster pointed out is is the trigger pushing down. My hands are pretty big and it's small.
I tired it with snap caps and it had much less moment shooting like a j frame..

To the range Thursday :-)


"You are born. And you die. And if you are very lucky in between you get to ride motorcycles."

[jocko]

I've used the same sight picture for more than 30 years. Changing now seems like a bad idea. I'm an old bullseye shooter, and consistency is how you make progress toward your accuracy goals. For me personally, I want to be able to put 10 for 10 onto a repair center at 25 yards with defensive ammo. This is my standard, I'm not dictating this for anyone else. Under stress I do not want to put any innocent bystanders in danger due to my limitations. This is why I practice with these little sub-compacts. That and I enjoy the challenge. The CM9 is most enjoyable since I seem to be able to group best with it - better than with a TCP, 642, or SCCY anyway. That said, I like shooting them all.

u best sell the gun, u have set very high expectactions for this gunand shooter.

Heh of a standard, I don't know of two many defensive shooters who ever set this kind of standard at 25 yards. Not to 0fend but to me it is ridiculous.
U shoot someone at 25 yards, ur gonna go to jail, PERIOD. But no one here is gonna tell ou what YOU should do or not do. I have no clue what the isze of a REPAIR CENTER is either, JKust sayin

Many guns are 6 oclock hold and many are 12 o
clock hold, . Not the gun but the sites and standard set by that gun maker, No doubt if one is a 6 oclock hold and gets a gun designed for 12 o'clock hold someone is gonna be unhappy and changes have to be made eithe rin sites or target acquisition..

[Pointblank]

I have a PM9 and P45. The PM9 shoots to point of aim. The P45 was shooting 8" low at 7 yards. I sent the P45 back to Kahr. It's been at the factory for three weeks now.

[WLEEP]

Now one more thing to is: change ur sight picture, see more of the front sight, Basically IMO this ia a POA gun, point an dsoot forget tight grups, if u can keep um all in what I call the FBI "Q" target which is the outline of a bowling in with no bullesye, , keep allin there which is easy at ur distance and consider yourself good to go. In a SHTF situation ur neer gona se the front, back sight and then the target. Just ain't gonna happen. concentrate on the front site and go for it. If u getting thewrong site picture no finger control is gonn help u, If ur anticipating the bang thing, no finger position is gonna halep yuu. U need to eliminate the possabilities

[WLEEP]

Yep, that's right per Jocko. Sorry I screwed up.

[jocko]

never admit u ever scewed up on this forum.Its ALWAYS THE GUNS FAULT...

[pbagley]

u best sell the gun, u have set very high expectactions for this gunand shooter.

Heh of a standard, I don't know of two many defensive shooters who ever set this kind of standard at 25 yards. Not to 0fend but to me it is ridiculous.
U shoot someone at 25 yards, ur gonna go to jail, PERIOD. But no one here is gonna tell ou what YOU should do or not do. I have no clue what the isze of a REPAIR CENTER is either, JKust sayin


Jocko, my friend, I am not advocating that any defensive situation will require 25 yard accuracy. I sincerely hope to never be in such a situation, at any distance, ever.

As to a repair center size, it is about 10.5" by 10.5".

I do set a high expectation for myself. I enjoy the challenge. I enjoy the practice to maintain the skill. I enjoy showing the results. Both of these were shot at 25 yards.
http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/20140317.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=653&u=13629574)

http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/13/62/95/74/20140319.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=655&u=13629574)

Warning: developing the skill to shoot well takes a lot of practice. I have no intention to sell any of my firearms.

[colding]

I have found the CM9 to be INSANELY accurate. While I have not tried it at 25 yards yet, at 12 yards it's an easy 3-4" group. With the XDS it's more like 5-7" groupings at best. But the holes are bigger.;)

Have you tried letting a friend shoot it to see how they fare with it?

[happypuppy]

I have found the CM9 to be INSANELY accurate. While I have not tried it at 25 yards yet, at 12 yards it's an easy 3-4" group. With the XDS it's more like 5-7" groupings at best. But the holes are bigger.;)

Have you tried letting a friend shoot it to see how they fare with it?


No, but a good thought. I did try it from a sand bag bench however. It is accurate however. The group's are right but low.



"You are born. And you die. And if you are very lucky in between you get to ride motorcycles."

[pbagley]

No, but a good thought. I did try it from a sand bag bench however. It is accurate however. The group's are right but low.


Then it is not you. It is the sights. If you feel a great need to correct this issue you can get a taller rear sight or you can remove a little material from the top of the front sight. If it were me, I would leave it as is or shoot heavier bullets.



"You are born. And you die. And if you are very lucky in between you get to ride motorcycles."
I may have to borrow this line. It shows a lot of wisdom. I can use all the help I can get in this area.

[rkenaston]

I have about 300 rounds through my CM9 and I tend to shoot low most the time as well. I believe in my case it's shooter error as I am used to Glock triggers and still learning the Kahr trigger. I do love the firearm and it is my EDC. The 300 rounds I've put through it have been flawless.

[muggsy]

never admit u ever scewed up on this forum.Its ALWAYS THE GUNS FAULT...

I usually blame everything on Jocko and usually I'm not too far wrong. Just sayin. :)

[garyb]

Shot from bench as well. Groups are tight, just low. I am wondering if the fact it's small is coming into play.

I am going to try shooting it like a j frame. I use the middle pad for that.

I suspect what maybe happening is I am pushing a bit sideways on the trigger vs back only.


Just ' bout the action Boss...


I had the same thing when I first started shooting my PM40, but it was me and not the gun. It all got sorted out with some ammo adjustments (now that I reload). The gun shoots fine and I am much, much more accurate with it now.


Then I had the same thing with my S&W M&P PRO....even off the bench. Because you benched it, I would guess that it could very well be the gun or ammo. To correct my problem with the Pro, I had to purchase a lower front sight from Dawson. After some calculations on how low, I ordered a new fiber optic and it worked perfectly. Happy camper again. Can't have a gun that does not hit where I aim.


Good luck sorting it out.
Best.

[happypuppy]

It is a bit low with 115 grain while box about 6 inches. Using the 124 grain +p rangers I had. By using my 2nd finger pad it's now 3 inches low which is much better obviously. I have the set of sights coming to me as well.

It is very accurate with tight groups. I understand some have issues initially with the trigger and long reset. In my case I am coming from revolvers and it feels natural to me and one reason I went with kahr.

This is the best small pistol I have had and most of the time small was a j frame for myself.


"You are born. And you die. And if you are very lucky in between you get to ride motorcycles."

[mickeyfinn]

u best sell the gun, u have set very high expectactions for this gunand shooter.

Heh of a standard, I don't know of two many defensive shooters who ever set this kind of standard at 25 yards. Not to 0fend but to me it is ridiculous.
U shoot someone at 25 yards, ur gonna go to jail, PERIOD. But no one here is gonna tell ou what YOU should do or not do. I have no clue what the isze of a REPAIR CENTER is either, JKust sayin

Many guns are 6 oclock hold and many are 12 o
clock hold, . Not the gun but the sites and standard set by that gun maker, No doubt if one is a 6 oclock hold and gets a gun designed for 12 o'clock hold someone is gonna be unhappy and changes have to be made eithe rin sites or target acquisition..

I agree. I can hear the prosecutor now.

"The defendant shot and killed Mr. Smith from a long distance, 25 yards in fact! That's right. Mr. Smith was 1/4 of a football field away.

Yes, we have a 'stand your ground' law in this state but the defendant was claiming a lot of ground when he shot and killed Mr. Smith ... too much in fact."

[marshal kane]

IMO, pretty hard to claim self defense when the assailant was shot 5 times between the eyes at a distance of 25 yards. The survivors will be seeing you in civil court should you beat the DA.

[garyb]

I've used the same sight picture for more than 30 years. Changing now seems like a bad idea. I'm an old bullseye shooter, and consistency is how you make progress toward your accuracy goals. For me personally, I want to be able to put 10 for 10 onto a repair center at 25 yards with defensive ammo. This is my standard, I'm not dictating this for anyone else. Under stress I do not want to put any innocent bystanders in danger due to my limitations. This is why I practice with these little sub-compacts. That and I enjoy the challenge. The CM9 is most enjoyable since I seem to be able to group best with it - better than with a TCP, 642, or SCCY anyway. That said, I like shooting them all.


Personally, I don't see anything wrong with sighting a gun in at this range. I do the same thing to be sure it is accurate. No disrespect to anyone, but checking a gun's accuracy does not mean you plan to shoot someone at 25 yards 5 times between the eyes. Where did that come from? It is simply checking the gun's accuracy at that distance because you want to be certain where it shoots. One does not lead to the other. Come on guys, certainly you verify your gun's accuracy. Again, no disrespect. Just stating my opinion.

[pbagley]

To start, I have no intention of shooting at anyone at any distance. If backed into a corner with no way out then I'll consider this to preserve my own life, or the life of another, but this is a last ditch option.

Second, I had a couple of hours on a simulator with my son (cop) and in one scenario we were pinned down behind an AC unit under fire from someone about 20 yards away. I highly recommend the simulator as a self learning exercise.

[jocko]

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with sighting a gun in at this range. I do the same thing to be sure it is accurate. No disrespect to anyone, but checking a gun's accuracy does not mean you plan to shoot someone at 25 yards 5 times between the eyes. Where did that come from? It is simply checking the gun's accuracy at that distance because you want to be certain where it shoots. One does not lead to the other. Come on guys, certainly you verify your gun's accuracy. Again, no disrespect. Just stating my opinion.

can't argue that point either. but we see that most shooters have issues at 7 yards so what does on expect at 25 yards. Never a bid ting to shoot at 25 yardes b ut from people like me, at 25 yards shooting is very depresivbe tos ay the least. I tend to shoot where I can hit sumpin and not blame the gun etc. at 25 yards it has to be the guns fault . Just sayin. Some of the guys here on this forum are truly "shooters" to but for the most part, most are not. My 21 cents is get damn good at 7 yards and more than likely is u need to use ur kahr u will be more confident than at 25 yards...

[pbagley]

I think that my friend Jocko just said that we should not work on our accuracy at 25 yards because someone else may have trouble achieving the same accuracy at the same distance and in failing become discouraged. Never mind that some of us work long and hard at improving our skills. Never mind that some of us have worked long and hard at finding a load that is capable of decent accuracy in 9mm (the most difficult caliber I've worked with so far). But since Mr Jocko is discouraged and possibly depressed by the result of hard work everyone else should stop their pursuit of happiness, or at least 25 yard accuracy.

Do I have this right?

I'm not sure if I'm offended or amused. I'm pretty sure I've been trolled.

Like my sight picture, I've been doing things the same for a long time and don't plan to change anything now. If 7 yards works for you then by all means continue. As I said before, this is a personal standard and I would never dictate any accuracy standard onto anyone else. Just be safe.

[RRP]

Long winter this year?

[pbagley]

Long winter this year?

Yes. Very long. At least it hasn't snowed in the last 5 days.

[Baklash]

Have you ever considered changing your sight picture. The dot is supposed to cover the intended point of impact. If you are using a 6 o'clock hold that could be your problem. Kahr sights are combat sights, not target sights.
OK, let me ask a stupid question::eek: What is 6 o'clock hold and 12 o'clock hold and a gun designed for one or the other?:confused: I learn so much from this forum!:Amflag2:

[pbagley]

OK, let me ask a stupid question::eek: What is 6 o'clock hold and 12 o'clock hold and a gun designed for one or the other?:confused: I learn so much from this forum!:Amflag2:

First, there are no stupid questions. There are some unwise questions (like asking your wife if she's put on a few pounds). This is not one of them.

Six o'clock hold: Generally a target shooter's term for how sights are aligned with a bullseye target. There are two components to the six o'clock hold:


Sight alignment: The front sight is centered in the rear sight with equal light on both sides and the top of the front sight is even with the top of the rear sight. Typically the shooter focuses on the front sight, allowing the rear sight and the target to be a little blurry.
Target alignment: The shooter maintains sight alignment and moves the gun to the 6 o'clock position of the black target center. Some refer to this as balancing a black ball on top of the front sight. The sights are kept in alignment more easily since they are against the white background of the target. Bullets are expected to hit the paper about 3" above the point of aim.


This is the sight picture I have used in BullsEye shooting for the past 30-odd years, taught to me by people who had shot BulleEye for 40 years prior to that. Old School? Tried and True? How about "Works for me".

We do our best with sight alignment and target alignment, but not all shots go exactly where we want. Everyone has a wobble area. The more you practice, the smaller your wobble area becomes. Typically this becomes more side to side than up and down. Give yourself time to learn and reduce your wobble area. Dry firing helps you keep the sights aligned through the trigger pull. Kahr's long DA trigger does not help here. Compact and sub-compact guns have a short sight radius which also does not help. As someone pointed out earlier, these are not "target" guns, they are good defensive firearms. I like the challenge of shooting a DA trigger well, both with a semi-auto or revolver. The short sight radius means you have to pay attention to sight alignment even more than with a "target" gun.

I hope that helps. If not let me know. I'll take a photo and post it tonight.

[jocko]

I think that my friend Jocko just said that we should not work on our accuracy at 25 yards because someone else may have trouble achieving the same accuracy at the same distance and in failing become discouraged. Never mind that some of us work long and hard at improving our skills. Never mind that some of us have worked long and hard at finding a load that is capable of decent accuracy in 9mm (the most difficult caliber I've worked with so far). But since Mr Jocko is discouraged and possibly depressed by the result of hard work everyone else should stop their pursuit of happiness, or at least 25 yard accuracy.

Do I have this right?

I'm not sure if I'm offended or amused. I'm pretty sure I've been trolled.

Like my sight picture, I've been doing things the same for a long time and don't plan to change anything now. If 7 yards works for you then by all means continue. As I said before, this is a personal standard and I would never dictate any accuracy standard onto anyone else. Just be safe.

I stated it the way ur trying to relate. I was also talking about my shooting abilitiesw etc and the abilities of most on this forum, . Ur trying to insnate that I said not to shoot at 25 yards and I did not say that either. Not gonna asrgue with u on what ur abilities are etc, but it seems ur trying to argue a mute point even. Trolled, , certainly not from ol jockos standpoint. I also meat naddea abpout amusing or offending, I was tating my opinions . I tyhink I even put YOU N THE "SHOOTERS" CATEGORY EVEN. Again most are not in ur categoryt or shootng level.

Sure sorry u seemed to take offense, but it isn't a perfect world I guess.:amflag:

[pbagley]

Sure sorry u seemed to take offense, but it isn't a perfect world I guess.:amflag:

No offense, no worries. My reply was pretty much tongue-in-cheek on the offense issue. Completely serious about being safe.

[garyb]

can't argue that point either. but we see that most shooters have issues at 7 yards so what does on expect at 25 yards. Never a bid ting to shoot at 25 yardes b ut from people like me, at 25 yards shooting is very depresivbe tos ay the least. I tend to shoot where I can hit sumpin and not blame the gun etc. at 25 yards it has to be the guns fault . Just sayin. Some of the guys here on this forum are truly "shooters" to but for the most part, most are not. My 21 cents is get damn good at 7 yards and more than likely is u need to use ur kahr u will be more confident than at 25 yards...



I understand your point. Well taken. Again, I stated..."no disrespect", so we are cool. I simply did not see the correlation between practicing at longer distances meaning that person plans to shoot another person at a longer distance. Apples and oranges. Hopefully you understand my point too. The only correlation I see, is that if you practice AND become good at longer distances (ie., 25yrds), you will be that much better at shorter distances (ie., 7 yrds).


Case in point: I practice at all distances, positions, movements, etc... (because I shoot IDPA). I find that with my gun practice, just like archery, if I put in consistent time at longer distances, it makes the close shots become very easy. For example, I was preparing for an archery elk hunt. I was practicing out to 70 yards. At crunch time, I had a shot at a 6X6 bull elk in Utah at 40 yrds. The guide asked if I was comfortable. It was a chip shot at an animal that large and I had a heart shot. However, I would never consider taking a 40 yrd shot at a whitetail. Again, apples and oranges. However, because I was comfortable at 70 yrds, that 40 yrd elk shot seemed very easy. I feel it is the same with handguns....even SD handguns like the PM. Currently 25yrds with my PM is my max. I would not say that I am as good with my PM at 25 yrds as I am with my S&W M&P PRO. But because I practice at the longer distance, when I walk up to 10 yrds or 7 feet, it seems very, very easy to me. Just a point. Not trying to belabor it. Just a friendly forum discussion.
Peace.

[Baklash]

First, there are no stupid questions. There are some unwise questions (like asking your wife if she's put on a few pounds). This is not one of them.

Six o'clock hold: Generally a target shooter's term for how sights are aligned with a bullseye target. There are two components to the six o'clock hold:


Sight alignment: The front sight is centered in the rear sight with equal light on both sides and the top of the front sight is even with the top of the rear sight. Typically the shooter focuses on the front sight, allowing the rear sight and the target to be a little blurry.
Target alignment: The shooter maintains sight alignment and moves the gun to the 6 o'clock position of the black target center. Some refer to this as balancing a black ball on top of the front sight. The sights are kept in alignment more easily since they are against the white background of the target. Bullets are expected to hit the paper about 3" above the point of aim.


This is the sight picture I have used in BullsEye shooting for the past 30-odd years, taught to me by people who had shot BulleEye for 40 years prior to that. Old School? Tried and True? How about "Works for me".

We do our best with sight alignment and target alignment, but not all shots go exactly where we want. Everyone has a wobble area. The more you practice, the smaller your wobble area becomes. Typically this becomes more side to side than up and down. Give yourself time to learn and reduce your wobble area. Dry firing helps you keep the sights aligned through the trigger pull. Kahr's long DA trigger does not help here. Compact and sub-compact guns have a short sight radius which also does not help. As someone pointed out earlier, these are not "target" guns, they are good defensive firearms. I like the challenge of shooting a DA trigger well, both with a semi-auto or revolver. The short sight radius means you have to pay attention to sight alignment even more than with a "target" gun.

I hope that helps. If not let me know. I'll take a photo and post it tonight.
Thanks for the explanation. Like I said, I learn a lot here. Apologies if I hijacked the post.

[pbagley]

Thanks for the explanation. Like I said, I learn a lot here. Apologies if I hijacked the post.

I did not see this as a hijack. Just a question, and I'm happy to help in any small way I can.

Now my turn to potentially hijack the thread - last night I found that my CM40 shoots a little low and right for me with 165gr. Winchester White Box. I won't say any more - I posted a new thread on the subject last night.

Back to our regularly scheduled CM9 shooting low conversation.

[gmcjetpilot]

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with sighting a gun in at this range. I do the same thing to be sure it is accurate. No disrespect to anyone, but checking a gun's accuracy does not mean you plan to shoot someone at 25 yards 5 times between the eyes. Where did that come from? It is simply checking the gun's accuracy at that distance because you want to be certain where it shoots. One does not lead to the other. Come on guys, certainly you verify your gun's accuracy. Again, no disrespect. Just stating my opinion.Yea BUT 25 yards with iron (plastic) sight and small 9mm/40 pistol?

My opinion 9 yards is good enough and 17 yards about MAX to check accuracy of this small handgun.... beyond that you start to get into issues other than gun/ammo accuracy.... like shooters eyesight, ballistic drop....

By this logic, if 25 yards is a better and more meaningful check of accuracy than say 10 yards, then why not 100 yards... that will really check the accuracy? :D Get my point. The distance has to make sense. 25 yards for the CM-9 does not make sense to me. On same token, if you are all over the target at 25 feet, than 75 feet is not going to tell you much. Flip side if you are drilling it at 25 feet, 75 feet will just tell you more about your accuracy not the guns accuracy, especially if not using a gun vice.

Gun and ammo can affect accuracy typically (not always) the shooter is the issue, especially with these micro sized 9mm's. Also one of the main shooting ranges I use is NOT 75 feet (25 yards). One range I frequent is only 50-55 feet (17 yards).

[happypuppy]

On my cm9 I swapped the front sight with other one on the kahr sight. I fired it at 15 yards with federal HST 124 +p and used the revolver trigger pull. This is the middle pad for those that don't know btw.

25 rounds at POA fist size pattern. This thing is accurate b


Just ' bout the action Boss...

[DavidS]

There are some unwise questions (like asking your wife if she's put on a few pounds).

Not necessarily being wise, but being no idiot, over the years I have learned the proper way to ask that question:
-"The girls" have been looking mighty fine lately, you been exercising?

[muggsy]

Kahr pistols were designed as defensive close quarters carry pistols. They were not designed as target pistols. I do the majority on my shooting with a carry gun at 7 yards or 21 feet as that is the standard distance for combat shooting. Shooting a Kahr at 25 yards and expecting to shoot one hole groups is about the same as entering a jeep in the Indy 500 and expecting to win. Ya might win if all of the other cars crash. To everything there is a season and a time for every purpose under heaven. (with apologies to the Byrds)

[srk468]

My CM9 was low as well, HATED the sights so I just installed the night sights that Kahr sells. I just couldn't see retraining myself for one gun so now it has a standard 3 dot system on it, I can train around the trigger but those sights just didn't work for me. As long as I'm accurate at 30' or so then I'm happy. My groups with the stock sights were very tight but consistently very low until I learned the "dot the i" system then it was accurate but if I need it in a hurry I don't want to have the think about aiming it differently than my Glock or my 1911.

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[C0untZer0]

I shoot from 21 feet and 10 feet.


I did some shooting at 50 feet because someone on a forum asked if the CM9 can put rounds on an 8" plate at 50 feet, and I made one 5-round shot group that was 3.5"


I was very impressed with that. I could spend a day at the range with my 17L shooting at 50 feet and not shoot that well. I think I got lucky, but hey, I'll take it - I still have the target.

[Pointblank]

My new P45 was shooting 8" low at 7 yards after several hundred rounds. Kahr had it for six weeks. They replaced the barrel and modified the slide. It's not always the shooter. There is a design issue with some of the guns.

[garyb]

Yea BUT 25 yards with iron (plastic) sight and small 9mm/40 pistol?

My opinion 9 yards is good enough and 17 yards about MAX to check accuracy of this small handgun.... beyond that you start to get into issues other than gun/ammo accuracy.... like shooters eyesight, ballistic drop....

By this logic, if 25 yards is a better and more meaningful check of accuracy than say 10 yards, then why not 100 yards... that will really check the accuracy? :D Get my point. The distance has to make sense. 25 yards for the CM-9 does not make sense to me. On same token, if you are all over the target at 25 feet, than 75 feet is not going to tell you much. Flip side if you are drilling it at 25 feet, 75 feet will just tell you more about your accuracy not the guns accuracy, especially if not using a gun vice.

Gun and ammo can affect accuracy typically (not always) the shooter is the issue, especially with these micro sized 9mm's. Also one of the main shooting ranges I use is NOT 75 feet (25 yards). One range I frequent is only 50-55 feet (17 yards).

I understand your points and they are well taken. However, you missed the point I was making about defense distance vs sight in distance. I agree that if you can't sight in at 5 yrds you won't be able to sight in at 25 yrds. That's kind of common sense. However, I can shoot my PM40 at 25 yrds accurately off a bench. It is the shooter. But it is also the ammo, the gun, the sights, etc..... Everything must work together and if it is not, we need to find out what is going wrong and why. I get your point too.

[jocko]

My new P45 was shooting 8" low at 7 yards after several hundred rounds. Kahr had it for six weeks. They replaced the barrel and modified the slide. It's not always the shooter. There is a design issue with some of the guns.

issue is extremely rare . no doubt by and large it is shooter error/issue.