Carry in office building with signs

[9mmlover]

Should I just ignore this sign posted in the front door of my office building?

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/17/8e8e8udu.jpg




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[Bawanna]

If there isn't a metal detector I would.

Be advised this is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of Kahr, this forum or the little people who live on Guam.

[GLOCKROCKER]

It doesn't say anything about AR's, AK's, or shotguns.:33:

[mser]

Should I just ignore this sign posted in the front door of my office building?

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/17/8e8e8udu.jpg



What makes it unlawful? Is this an establishment that your State law prohibits the carrying of a firearm by a person lawfully permitted?

[downtownv]

Unlawful or against company policies?

[Rubb]

You need to look at your state laws and then decide if you want to break them.

Why would you post your intent to break the law on a public forum?
Not to mention asking others here to condone breaking the law!
It's unlawful because the business is posted, period.
Guessing, as a minimum...trespassing, fines, possible jail time, loss of job and permit.

You should beg someone to delete this thread!

[DavidR]

Florida law provides a list of places where firearms are not permitted. Not sure about your state. That sign may or may not be accurate. (I guess that wasn't very helpful).

[CJB]

Dunno if you're in Florida or not.

In Florida, certain places are forbidden, aka schools, sessions of legislature or governing bodies, courthouses, places prohibited by Federal Law, etc etc.

There is a prohibition against towns and local places making their own laws regarding firearms. As of a few years ago, they will now face fines and penalties if they try to enforce their own laws regarding firearms.

Signs are meaningless in Florida.

[twowheels]

Depends on state law as indicated above. In some states, property owners are permitted to post prohibition notices and persons ignoring the notices are committing a trespass. In other states, ignoring such a sign is a crime. In most states, there are places where packing is a crime even without any posted prohibitions. You need to do the research to actually learn the consequences of violating the posting before deciding your course of action.

[9mmlover]

What makes it unlawful? Is this an establishment that your State law prohibits the carrying of a firearm by a person lawfully permitted?

This is in great Texas. Carry with state ccw license.


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[TheTman]

Well if it is a Federal or State Office building, it probably is illegal, and I would not take the chance. Or say the FBI or IRS has an office in the building, it is still probably illegal and I wouldn't take the chance. I certainly wouldn't want a felony on my record.
Now if it's just a normal office building, with no government offices in it, I'd look up the law and see if it was truly unlawful, or if they are just trying to scare you.
I'll carry past the no-guns signs posted on many businesses, but I won't carry into a Post Office, or any other Federal, State, or Local government office. I just don't want to take the chance of being spotted and ending up with a felony on my record, which will deny you ownership of ANY firearm. If you carry past a no-guns sign, on a burger joint or something, all they can do is ask you to leave, and call the cops if you refuse. Find out what makes it illegal to have a handgun on the premises, or if the sign is just there to scare folks into not bringing handguns onto the premises.
When our concealed carry law went into effect, an anti gun group went out passing no-gun signs out to all the local businesses and told them they HAD to put one on or near the door. They got exposed pretty quickly by some business owners that knew better.

[340pd]

Outside of the obvious (Fed bldgs., Schools, etc.) in MN the owner does have the right to post a sign prohibiting the carry of firearms on premises. The signs type size, overall size, and height of mounting are all clearly written law. The penalty for ignoring this law is the manager or owner of the establishment can ask you to store the firearm elsewhere or politely ask you to leave the establishment. The penalty for refusal is a small token fine.

Check your local laws. Personally, my eyes somehow miss a lot of signage, especially if I am with my family.

[b4uqzme]

FWIW. Just some advice for those shopping for a CCW instructor. Find one who will answer these kind of questions for you. So you can ask a professional who has current information specific to your locale. Some instructors just hold the class and that's the last contact you ever have from them. Find one who will be there for you in the future...who doesn't mind if you call and ask carry questions...and who will stand up for you in court should the unthinkable happen.

[getsome]

Down here in Georgia we shoot holes in signs we don't like such as speed limit, stop, Democrats for office and especially no guns allowed.....:4:

[Bawanna]

Here in Washington we don't have CCW classes. Thank God.

My first choice for such signs is to just not go there. Schools, post offices (rarely go there anymore) but went there without wardrobe adjustment.

Just not gonna be a fish in a barrel for the anti's to use as a sad story.

[9mmlover]

The problem to me is that I am not sure if the parking garage on the first floor of the building is part of the establishment. Also leaving a gun in the car is not safe here.
The building has nothing government related. I will do some research.



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[garyb]

You need to look at your state laws and then decide if you want to break them.

Why would you post your intent to break the law on a public forum?
Not to mention asking others here to condone breaking the law!
It's unlawful because the business is posted, period.
Guessing, as a minimum...trespassing, fines, possible jail time, loss of job and permit.

You should beg someone to delete this thread!


Exactly. I would also add....Do you like your job? Do you need your job? If so, think it through. We see this topic and debate of no carry zones surface from time to time. Listen to your better judgment and common sense if you are carrying where you know you should not be carrying. The counter to this will always be, "I don't care...I am going to protect myself regardless of the rule/law." Everyone will do what they feel comfortable doing. As for myself, I do my very best to stick to the rules and laws. I also carry where and when it is possible...but I don't make an issue of it when I don't need to. Sometimes it just does not make sense to carry in certain places or conditions...but that's just my opinion.

[mr surveyor]

This is in great Texas. Carry with state ccw license.


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9mmlover

Are you a Texan yourself? Do you have a Texas CHL (Concealed Handgun License), either resident or non-resident?

If yes to the second question, your instructor through either classroom instruction or in the "required reading" official state provided CHL Handbook (which you swear in an affidavit necessary for license approval that you read and understood) should have made in pretty clear as to what signage held legal standing regarding licensed carry.

Unless this office building in question is already statutorily off limits by either state or federal law (both being a small number of facilities in Texas), that sign carries no weight of "law", unless the proper posted Section 30.06 sign is present at the main entries to the building. The terms "unlawful" and "violates company policy" have totally separate meanings. The "law" would require the 30.06 sign for it to be enforceable notice. If the sign is there for company policy giving reminder notice to employees of the building, then I think the sign is way off base using the term "unlawful".

It depends totally on who owns the actual office building. If federal, there is specific wording for the sign. If state, county or city, it can't be "posted", unless in very specific cases, i.e. "premises of a K-12 school building" without written permission (premises means specifically inside the buildings), polling places on voting days, inside the building where a judge presides, and a few other rare cases. These do not have to be posted, although they usually do have some type of gunbuster sign just for "looks". Texas CHL's can even carry in the State Capitol building. It's up to Texas CHL's to actually KNOW the off-limits places as established in the law, and what signage carries weight for the circumstances.

More information pertaining to the "office building" in question would help clear up things a bit.

[Bawanna]

" Sometimes it just does not make sense to carry in certain places or conditions...but that's just my opinion. "

I've thought and thought on this and I can't think of a single place that fits this description.

I truthfully avoid doing bad just so I don't have to go to court where I can't carry my pacifier. And where I'd want it the most.
There are bad people in court rooms and lawyers too.

I refuse to testify in court proceedings through the department. Doesn't happen often and usually only a prosecutor wanting more nails for the coffin lid. Firearms examinations and such. I tell em I wrote my statement and my opinions, the judge can surely read the english language, I ain't coming.

Occasionally they want to play hardball and do the subpoena thing, bastards.

[JohnR]

It's either illegal or it isn't, based on the law, not on a sign. Just because someone slaps up a sign saying such-n-such is illegal doesn't make it illegal. Texas supposedly has exact regulations on the wording, font, etc. of signs where building owners want you to be unarmed.

[wyntrout]

There are no "no firearms allowed" signs at my post office's doors... and considering the time of the year and possible "postal" encounters, I made "Big Boy" decisions when I dropped off my Infernal Revenue Extortions on the 15th.

Wynn:)

[Longitude Zero]

If a private business I would ignore the signage. Doing so at a government facility with that kind of sign is pretty stupid as it can get you incarcerated.

[Bawanna]

And just to clarify my thoughts, I have nothing against a business owner who misguidedly doesn't want to allow guns in his business. I just don't go there. It's his business, he can do whatever he wants.

It's just like a eating joint that insist you have to wear a tie, you won't see me or my gun in that joint, sign or no sign.

I also won't test a business owner, because his sign doesn't meet criteria, I just won't go.

We used to have Block Buster Video here in town till they folded. For a brief period they put up a no gun sign, might as well have put up a closed sign, nobody went there.
Only a couple weeks and the sign disappeared.

[getsome]

I look at it this way, that movie theater in Aurora Colorado had signs that said no guns allowed, so did Sandy Hook elementry school, Virginia Tech, FT. Hood and the Navy Yard but the bad guys either didn't read um or didn't care and a whole bunch of good folks died because they couldn't fight back....I plan to behave myself and carry something to defend myself everywhere I go except for a Courtroom and Airport because they have metal detectors and for what it's worth I stay away from both because I don't fly and don't get arrested and need to show up for court....There is one thing that no Judge can return to me once taken away and that's the one and only life I possess and I intend to do anything I have to do in order to hang on to it including not reading signs...

[wyntrout]

Amen, Getsome!

Wynn:D

[9mmlover]

This sign was posted by the building management, not my company. I have never carried inside the office. I dont want to break any laws/rules. Just want to get some opinion from you guys.


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[muggsy]

Sign? What sign? I didn't see any sign. Explain something to me pardner. If your gun is concealed who besides you is going to know that you have one?

[getsome]

If they ask just say you're Dyslexic and didn't see the top part and you're spanish aint too good either and you thought it said not to sit on a cigar or sumpin like that

[Bawanna]

A double Amen for Getsome. I don't do airports either. I dropped my wife at the curb yesterday, no need for me to go in. Baggage and check in is right there at the door, and the TSA Gastopo's are right around the corner.

My first and favorite chief and best friend is now Chief of Port of Seattle and her office is in the airport. I've not visited her yet.
Supposedly I can get there without going through TSA. She said if I ever get down she'd meet me and show me the way. Haven't seen her in a long time, I need to get down there and do that.

[berettabone]

I look at it this way, that movie theater in Aurora Colorado had signs that said no guns allowed, so did Sandy Hook elementry school, Virginia Tech, FT. Hood and the Navy Yard but the bad guys either didn't read um or didn't care and a whole bunch of good folks died because they couldn't fight back....I plan to behave myself and carry something to defend myself everywhere I go except for a Courtroom and Airport because they have metal detectors and for what it's worth I stay away from both because I don't fly and don't get arrested and need to show up for court....There is one thing that no Judge can return to me once taken away and that's the one and only life I possess and I intend to do anything I have to do in order to hang on to it including not reading signs...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++!!!

[garyb]

" Sometimes it just does not make sense to carry in certain places or conditions...but that's just my opinion. "

"I've thought and thought on this and I can't think of a single place that fits this description."


If you are avoiding places because it is illegal to carry (schools, government buildings, court houses, airports, etc...) , then those places still DO fit this description. You don't go there so you don't carry there. Additionally, I don't carry when I go to the pool or spa. I don't carry when I visit the kids at school. I don't carry when I fly or go to a government building. When the grand kids are around and I am rough housing with them, I don't carry. There are other situations that fit my personal opinion of when and where to not carry. Likewise, obviously we all carry when and where we want for the same reason - protection. Some folks take bigger chances than others by carrying where it is illegal. Some folks avoid places and therefore do not carry there. Some of us follow the laws. I am not condemning anyone for carrying where or when I would not. We all have choices to make and we all have opinions on where and when to carry.

[RRP]

This sign was posted by the building management, not my company. I have never carried inside the office. I dont want to break any laws/rules. Just want to get some opinion from you guys.


Why rely on the "opinions" of strangers whose qualifications you can't vet, when you can just refer to the law?

https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetforms/Forms/CHL-16.pdf

[Bawanna]

I got all the way up to "This page left intentionally blank" before the headache struck.

I'll try to read more later.

[downtownv]

" Sometimes it just does not make sense to carry in certain places or conditions...but that's just my opinion. "

"I've thought and thought on this and I can't think of a single place that fits this description."


If you are avoiding places because it is illegal to carry (schools, government buildings, court houses, airports, etc...) , then those places still DO fit this description. You don't go there so you don't carry there. Additionally, I don't carry when I go to the pool or spa. I don't carry when I visit the kids at school. I don't carry when I fly or go to a government building. When the grand kids are around and I am rough housing with them, I don't carry. There are other situations that fit my personal opinion of when and where to not carry. Likewise, obviously we all carry when and where we want for the same reason - protection. Some folks take bigger chances than others by carrying where it is illegal. Some folks avoid places and therefore do not carry there. Some of us follow the laws. I am not condemning anyone for carrying where or when I would not. We all have choices to make and we all have opinions on where and when to carry.

GaryB
once again you make some great points! ( . )( . )

[CJB]

Why rely on the "opinions" of strangers whose qualifications you can't vet, when you can just refer to the law?

https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetforms/Forms/CHL-16.pdf

Because beside the law, there's a matter of courtesy? I dunno....

When in doubt, carry. When not in doubt, carry.

[mr surveyor]

I think I'm invisible here :rolleyes:

[Selcouth]

I'm in Texas and have a CHL. If the sign on the building doesn't look like this:

http://www.practicaltacticaltraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/30-06.jpg

Or this:
http://www.practicaltacticaltraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/TABC-51-sign.jpg

Consider me walking in with one in the chamber. :p

[gmcjetpilot]

Rebels without a clue ignore signs prohibiting carriage of guns onto property, be it private or government.

2nd amendment written when they had single shot flint locks, does not allow you unlimited unrestricted rights to "bear arms", carry whatever you want, wherever, whenever, however.

There are people who don't have a right to own a gun, they are called felons.

BEFORE you break the law or ignore signs, get a lawyer and ask them what the law is and the penalties. If you don't care, then by all means ignore the law and signs, risk becoming a felon. You will have no gun rights (aka felon), and I'm OK with that. Owning and carrying a firearm in public, is a huge responsibility, that only the most thoughtful emotionally mature citizens should have. People who ignore signs have issues, be it hubris or lack of judgment. WHY RISK BEING CHARGED AND CONVICTED WITH A FIREARM VIOLATION? No reasonable logic exist to do so.

[berettabone]

Rebels without a clue ignore signs prohibiting carriage of guns onto property, be it private or government.

2nd amendment written when they had single shot flint locks, does not allow you unlimited unrestricted rights to "bear arms", carry whatever you want, wherever, whenever, however.

There are people who don't have a right to own a gun, they are called felons.

BEFORE you break the law or ignore signs, get a lawyer and ask them what the law is and the penalties. If you don't care, then by all means ignore the law and signs, risk becoming a felon. You will have no gun rights (aka felon), and I'm OK with that. Owning and carrying a firearm in public, is a huge responsibility, that only the most thoughtful emotionally mature citizens should have. People who ignore signs have issues, be it hubris or lack of judgment. WHY RISK BEING CHARGED AND CONVICTED WITH A FIREARM VIOLATION? No reasonable logic exist to do so.
In my state, if you enter a space that has a no firearms allowed sign, you will be asked to put your firearm in your car, or leave. If you don't, you will be issued a disorderly conduct citation...........ooooooooooooooo, what a rebel.................it's quite easy for me..........just like the other poster stated, if the sign has all of these heinous type numbers after it, I don't go in, and they don't get my money. Simple, really................all of this felony stuff, sounds like a lib terror tactic. I never leave it to others, to decide where and when and how I should carry. Look what happens to some that do......................

[Planedude]

Rebels without a clue ignore signs prohibiting carriage of guns onto property, be it private or government.

2nd amendment written when they had single shot flint locks, does not allow you unlimited unrestricted rights to "bear arms", carry whatever you want, wherever, whenever, however.

There are people who don't have a right to own a gun, they are called felons.

BEFORE you break the law or ignore signs, get a lawyer and ask them what the law is and the penalties. If you don't care, then by all means ignore the law and signs, risk becoming a felon. You will have no gun rights (aka felon), and I'm OK with that. Owning and carrying a firearm in public, is a huge responsibility, that only the most thoughtful emotionally mature citizens should have. People who ignore signs have issues, be it hubris or lack of judgment. WHY RISK BEING CHARGED AND CONVICTED WITH A FIREARM VIOLATION? No reasonable logic exist to do so.
I will have to say that in TEXAS, by law, if a property owner wants to limit CHL carry they MUST post ALL the entrances to the property in the exact wording of "30.06" as shown in the pervious post. It ain't that hard, but folks will scotch tape a "gun buster" sign in a window and smile about their "safe" world. State law protects the CHL holder in such cases of improper posting. If the owner of the property asks a CHL to leave, then the CHL holder must comply.
SO, if the sign is goofy wrong and you decide to carry past it, you are fine, but gee-wiz keep the iron concealed...
...But then again, that's just true in TEXAS, your mileage may vary.

[timmy]

Concealed means concealed if you hide it well enough nobody knows in the first place

[muggsy]

Rebels without a clue ignore signs prohibiting carriage of guns onto property, be it private or government.

2nd amendment written when they had single shot flint locks, does not allow you unlimited unrestricted rights to "bear arms", carry whatever you want, wherever, whenever, however.

There are people who don't have a right to own a gun, they are called felons.

BEFORE you break the law or ignore signs, get a lawyer and ask them what the law is and the penalties. If you don't care, then by all means ignore the law and signs, risk becoming a felon. You will have no gun rights (aka felon), and I'm OK with that. Owning and carrying a firearm in public, is a huge responsibility, that only the most thoughtful emotionally mature citizens should have. People who ignore signs have issues, be it hubris or lack of judgment. WHY RISK BEING CHARGED AND CONVICTED WITH A FIREARM VIOLATION? No reasonable logic exist to do so.

When the second amendment was written the single shot flintlock was the assault weapon of the day. Out forefathers intended that the second amendment be in place to protect the citizenry from tyranny and our enemies both foreign and domestic. Laws that prohibit the carrying of weapons are a violation of the second amendment. The right of self defense is a God given unalienable right.

[gmcjetpilot]

all of this felony stuff, sounds like a lib terror tactic. I never leave it to others, to decide where and when and how I should carry. Look what happens to some that do......................It is a matter of "others" (the law) tell you.

Tennessee is a gun friendly state but has real gun restrictions, you need
to know the state and Federal law; ignorance of the law is not a defense.
I respect the law. In class we reviewed several law cases of "law abiding"
folks with concealed carry permits becoming felons for being ignorant or
arrogant.

I defer to your city and state District Attorney or a lawyer familiar
with firearm laws. I have a lawyer on speed dial who deals with
firearm penalties and self defense cases. I suggest you ask a
lawyer; you might be surprised how much liability you have for
prosicution.

You might not became a felon for going into a Frosty Freeze with a "no
guns" sign in plain view, with a hog strapped to your leg, if you leave
when asked. However Federal, State, Airport, School gun restricted areas
may not go well. There will be no leave all is OK option. You broke a law.

Just saying, you can't do whatever the hell you want. Break the law and
pay the price. This is just fact and common sense, no debate. A firearm
related prosecution can really screw up your life and right to ever
own a gun.

[gmcjetpilot]

When the second amendment was written the single shot flintlock was the assault weapon of the day. Out forefathers intended that the second amendment be in place to protect the citizenry from tyranny and our enemies both foreign and domestic. Laws that prohibit the carrying of weapons are a violation of the second amendment. The right of self defense is a God given unalienable right.Do you know any "forefathers" personally?

This is NOT 1791..... Red coats are not coming. We had no military. Now
we have more hired guns and spend more on defense than any nation.
Uncle Sam does not need us and our little guns. We need personal guns
for self protection against the tyranny of crime, and it's a hobby, sport,
hunting, target shooting. USA does not rely on individuals with guns
today.

Government is more powerful and we FIGHT with our vote. Unfortunately
too many people don't vote and fall victim to partisan voting. Two words
TERM LIMITS... The forefathers never thought politics would be a career a
lucrative one... I digress.

The forefathers you think you know, you think agree with you, could
NEVER have imagine AK15's and powerful semi-automatic pistols holding
many rounds that could be fired rapidly with out reloading or reloaded
quickly..... It did not exist back in 1776.

There is a great scene in the recent movie Lincoln, where a lobbyist gets
shot at, sitting at a cafe' table with a politician. The politician misses. As
the angry politician goes to reload his single shot flint lock, the lobbyist
runs, but he has time to run back, pick up his papers he forgot at the
table and run away....

If your read the second amendment it says:
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state,
the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

THAT IS ALL IT SAYS. It says well regulated militia? However the word
"people" is used, so I agree individuals NOT of organized militia are A-OK
to own a gun. (a single shot flint lock, ball and cap black powder?) That is
not the point. The point is unfettered right to carry a gun anywhere you
want. The "people" be it the Government (of the people) or individuals
have a right to restrict guns on their own property. Deal with it.

As far as "infringe", that does not mean you can not set limits.... Those
limits are clear, we can buy and own guns. I don't remember a time like
this. We have more guns and freedom than ever. Concealed carry is a
new animal. IT IS UP TO US NOT TO SCREW IT UP AND HAVE NEW
LIMITS IMPOSED. We do that by showing PQ public can handle it.
Ignoring signs or baiting Cops with obvious showing off open carry to
protect your 2nd Amendment rights (and video tape for YouTube), is
dumb and immature. I personally want NO second Amend rights for the
mentally ill & criminals.

Obviously I am pro guns, but I am for reasonable thoughtful restrictions
on guns, like NO crazy people or criminals with guns. We can debate the
effectiveness of gun laws of which we have plenty, but the 2nd
Amendment is far from clear or definitive. It is law which has to be
interpreted. That is what the courts are for... up to the Supreme court.

While we are at it, look at other amendments that don't make sense. Try
the 3rd Amendment and quartering solders in time of peace, circa 1789....
Or how about the 14th amendment, anchor babies birthright citizenship.
Anyone comes to USA and drops a baby, that child becomes a citizen.
That was done to protect children of slaves.

[RevRay]

As most people here know, I'm fairly new to all of this ... so I'm still thinking some things through. But one thing I've noticed is that there is a hierarchy of thought to the whole gun ownership discussion.

People who own guns find it hard to believe some people don't.
People who own guns and carry find it hard to believe some people don't.
People who own guns and carry with one in the chamber find it hard to believe some people don't.
People who carry a backup gun find it hard to believe some people don't.
People who carry extra magaxines find it hard to believe some people don't.
People who carry anywhere and everywhere find it hard to believe some people don't.

In the end, each of us has to make up our own free minds about each of these things. I have no problem whatsoever with someone who does all of the above ... and with someone who does none of the above. To me that's what freedom is all about. To the extent that I think someone should do things the way I do them ... then to that same extent I am trying to rob them of a certain measure of freedom.

[gmcjetpilot]

As most people here know, I'm fairly new to all of this ... so I'm still thinking some things through. But one thing I've noticed is that there is a hierarchy of thought to the whole gun ownership discussion.

People who own guns find it hard to believe some people don't.
People who own guns and carry find it hard to believe some people don't.
People who own guns and carry with one in the chamber find it hard to believe some people don't.
People who carry a backup gun find it hard to believe some people don't.
People who carry extra magaxines find it hard to believe some people don't.
People who carry anywhere and everywhere find it hard to believe some people don't.

In the end, each of us has to make up our own free minds about each of these things. I have no problem whatsoever with someone who does all of the above ... and with someone who does none of the above. To me that's what freedom is all about. To the extent that I think someone should do things the way I do them ... then to that same extent I am trying to rob them of a certain measure of freedom.

WELL SAID... That is all I am saying... Lets be thoughtful in any decision
we do with any deadly weapon.... Let's not fall back on pure rhetoric
without thought.

I understand the pure ANTI-GUN folks. I see their point, I disagree
however. I also disagree with the hardcore "gun nuts" who think they can
do anything.... basically anarchist, anti-Government folks on the other
extreme. BTW no one here.

There is something satisfying about Mr. Charlton Heston, "from my cold
dead hands". That is macho. What anti-gun folks and people from other
countries don't get, is this is part of the fabric of USA, for the good, bad
and ugly. BTW I'm as jingoistic as anyone, I LOVE AMERICA...

I also don't equate gun ownership with patriotism ...I am a patriot by
following laws, voting, paying taxes, supporting the troops, being a good
citizen in my community, volunteering, giving to charity....not gun
ownership. The gun industry and NRA loves to sell the idea you are a
better kind of American with a gun....

[Bawanna]

I think of America as a giant farm. In any farm large or small weeds need to be removed or they damage the rest of the crop.

Weeds can be very invasive.

That's where the gun comes in.

I don't carry a gun to be macho or a patriot although I consider myself a patriot.
I'm more concerned with protecting me and mine than I am with the law.

I respect the law usually by avoiding the places they for unknown reasons think I should have to enter as a sheep.

I don't think a judges life is any more important than mine. In my case it would be a plus to leave me alone since I would help protect the judge from the miscreants that inhabit cout houses, not to mention all the bottom feeding lawyers.

And post ofices? Give me a break. One postal worker goes postal so we ban guns in post offices. My wife does the post office, they've lowered the standards so badly I can't lower myself to even communicate with them any more.

[burdicda]

CAN YOU CARRY AT A HOSPITAL?© 2006 by Jon H. Gutmacher
Florida Statute § 394.458 states “except as authorized by law” it is a third degree felony (yeah – felony!) for any person to bring, carry, possess, or transport a “firearm or other dangerous weapon” upon the grounds of any “hospital (or mental health facility) providing mental health services”. Here’s the actual wording:


(1) (a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:

Any intoxicating beverage or beverage . . . .
Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or
Any firearms or deadly weapon”.

I just handled an arrest involving this statute. I raised the defense that the phrase “except as authorized by law” meant just that – and that securely encased weapons in vehicles on hospital grounds were therefore legal, pursuant to Florida Statute 790.25, and that persons having a Concealed Weapons Permit were also authorized because Florida Statute 790.06(12) lists all the places you can’t carry pursuant to your permit – and a hospital or mental health facility isn’t one of them. Thus you’re obviously “authorized by law”.

Now, the State Attorney agreed with me in the case I was handling – and dropped the prosecution. However, there is no binding appellate decision on this issue, and therefore, no guarantee you couldn’t get arrested, and become the next “test case”. Just because I’m sure my interpretation is correct doesn’t mean that the rest of the world will. Likewise, the “law according to Gutmacher” isn’t quite the same thing as an Opinion by an appellate court which is binding across the State. So -- maybe some caution isn’t such a bad idea?

I therefore would suggest that carrying inside a hospital or mental health facility pursuant to your CWP should be reserved for very special instances. Likewise, if any one knows you’re carrying, and tells the police or a security guard - I would suggest you be more than accommodating in offering to leave immediately if they feel you’re illegal, or just don’t want you there. Remember -- even if my interpretation is correct -- they still have the right to tell you to leave under trespass laws, no matter what the actual law is. So just get the heck out while you have the chance. If you get into any type of situation where you’re actually taken into custody, politely suggest to the officers that because you have a CWP, you’re not acting illegally. They’ll probably ignore you – but who knows? Can’t hurt!

Anyway, that’s my spin on this statute. Keep safe.


Wow what a load of crap....I looked up this case after stumbling into "No Firearms" decals on the automatic doors on both my local hospital and their gym "Health Club"...after carrying many times without noticing.

[jocko]

As most people here know, I'm fairly new to all of this ... so I'm still thinking some things through. But one thing I've noticed is that there is a hierarchy of thought to the whole gun ownership discussion.

People who own guns find it hard to believe some people don't.
People who own guns and carry find it hard to believe some people don't.
People who own guns and carry with one in the chamber find it hard to believe some people don't.
People who carry a backup gun find it hard to believe some people don't.
People who carry extra magaxines find it hard to believe some people don't.
People who carry anywhere and everywhere find it hard to believe some people don't.

In the end, each of us has to make up our own free minds about each of these things. I have no problem whatsoever with someone who does all of the above ... and with someone who does none of the above. To me that's what freedom is all about. To the extent that I think someone should do things the way I do them ... then to that same extent I am trying to rob them of a certain measure of freedom.

nicely said Re\v:Amflag2: