Compound Bow

[knkali]

I want one. what do you guys recommend for an all around bow that one can grow into so to speak. Yes I know where I am but this forum rocks with great eclectic people in the know.

[340pd]

Mathews Archery, one of the top manufacturers, makes a line called Mission. They offer very nice packages and their bows are very adjustable for length of draw and draw weight. Very nice products at affordable prices. Whatever you do, please go to a dedicated Archery shop. There are many adjustments needed to be made to make your bow shoot and fit correctly to your body specifications. You may pay a bit more. but they will fit it to you, explain how to shoot it properly, and that will save you a LOT of headaches later.

http://missionarchery.com/

[garyb]

knkali,
I have been seriously involved in archery and bowhunting for over 50 yrs. It is my primary sport and passion. First, no one, no one, can tell you which bow, arrow rest, sight, release, arrows, etc.... are best for you. It is like trying to tell someone which gun is best for them. Can't do it. Do you want a bow for target or hunting? How much do you want to spend? Many questions like this, need to be answered. It is like asking someone, what broadhead or SD bullet is best....WOW! You will get a pile of crap back.


I suggest you get knowledgeable on the features of the top of the line bows like Mathews, Hoyt, Bowtech, PSE. Then compare these features to the other bows out there....Bear, Martin, etc... Visit 2-3 good reputable bow shops (not department stores or sporting goods stores) and speak to experts about their top of the line bows (mentioned above). Compare what these folks tell you....so you can sort out the bull from good input.


Then go shopping for your first inexpensive but good bow, using the information you have gathered to see what top of the line features are on the less expensive bows. You have many additional decisions to make....bow sights, arrow rests, release aids, arrows, quivers, etc.... Look around first. Talk to experts first. Then go shopping and get used to shooting before you spend a ton of money ($2000 for a top of the line set up of bow, accessories and arrows).


I have shot a number of top of the line compounds, recurves, and longbows over the years. I have designed and built, recurves, longbows, bow strings, arrows, etc... as a hobby. Recently (15 yrs ago) I went back to a single cam compound from having shot a traditional recurve for many, many good years. My Mathews is now 15 yrs old. I have been shopping for a replacement for the past 5 yrs, but have still not found something that can say that I would be definitely happy with for another 15 yrs. Mathews is one of the top of the line. Keep any good bow maintained with new cables and bow strings every 3-4 yrs, and they will keep working well for you.


If you enter the archery world, you will find it to be an ever changing world and you will always be looking at the new bows and accessories that come on the market. It will take you yrs to sort out what you like, don't like, works for you and does not work for you. Once you sort it out, it will change again.


Start slow with research. Asking questions and learning from experts. Take this info and compare it to other less expensive bows on the market. Decide how much you are comfortable spending and get something to start with. Get used to the feel of archery. Then compare this to the feel of the more expensive bows You won't know the feel of a good bow until you know the feel of other bows and vise versa. Honestly, you won't go too far wrong by buying a decent $300-400 single cam bow. They have improved tremendously. Get into the sport, then upgrade.


Good luck with your journey. Archery and bowhunting is a great sport.
Best.

[knkali]

Thanks guys. I have Sat afternoon scheduled with an archery specific store. I checked their rep with a few bowmen and they all said this is a solid store with good people. Looks like I have a lot to learn.

[hardluk1]

garyb covered that real well. You can find a good regional bow shop to hell you and many guys upgrade ever year or two and you can pickup great lightly used bows . Many bows build over the last few years are very adjustable and tuneable. Its easy to learn to shot well with a set up compound too. You need to know what your draw length is and what a comfortable pull weight would be. You want a hunting bow pull weight that is well below your max. You have to be able to pull on a cooold morning sitting down so say you can comfortably pull 65lbs , maybe 55lb bow would be a better for hunting. be carefull you don't want a 70lb bow turned down to 55lbs. They tend to get noisier as pull weight is decreased. If 55lbs is what you need , Buy a 60lb bow max.


I have used the same old Person 2 cam bow for 10 years now. Still very quiet, prudty darn fast still even buy todays standards. Mine was not a High dollar bow or a perfered bow then but it works well for many years. So shop careful. A new mission bow can serve as well as a used Mathews and do do it at a lower cost, both are the same company !! Buy smart like with handguns a cw 9 can be every bit is practical and functional in the field as p9.

[Bill K]

Similar to garyb I've got an interest and passion for archery that goes back over 50 years. I mostly shoot and hunt using "traditional" bows, i.e. "longbows" and recurves. I am however giving a serious look at the Mission Rally (http://missionarchery.com/product/rally/) (I have and have had several compounds over the years) and think it would also be a compound bow worth your consideration because of its good quality, reasonable price, adaptability and adjust-ability. I would also recommend going to a pro shop. who knows, you might find a used consignment bow you like at a really decent price. Because of the rapid "advances" year to year compound bows tend to loose value rather quickly.

I would not expect to pay list for the bow, $350 to $400 would be what I'd pay.

http://missionarchery.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Rally-Black-Horz.png

[Bawanna]

I used a Martin in my vertical bow hunting days.
What I strongly suggest is hooking up with an experienced bow hunter, not a target shooter who has a passion for it and not just a knock the dust off and lets go hunting type.

See what he does and why, do some comparison research to tweek their set up to maybe match your style better.

You'll most likely get off to a better start but you won't be where you want to be without a few upgrades and changes.

I used to get a chuckle out of the bow hunters in the woods with big heavy target type setups, all the bells and whistles and probably a cup holder too.

For a hunting bow, stick to bare bone, balance need versus weight versus dragging all of it through the woods and brush.

I sure saw way more critters bow hunting than I ever saw with a rifle.

[knkali]

For me at this juncture, I am thinking that I want to spend on a good sighting system since I can transfer it from bow to bow. I tried a peep sight set up. I would like to avoid the peep set up if possible due to vision constraints. What sights would you guys recommend that is peepless. I saw a red dot type (SABO). Kind of looked cool but not sure if it gets the nod from experienced bowmen.

[Rbodine]

I shoot pse , they have very good entry level and pro series bows, they have some good deals out there


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[340pd]

Bill: I am currently shooting a Mission Rally. Nice all round very forgiving bow. It sounds like knkali is off to a good start. A good dedicated archery shop will, in the long run, save you a lot of money.

Also mosey on over to http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/
Really very helpful guys from all over the world. A few hours on that forum will really help.

[Bawanna]

For me at this juncture, I am thinking that I want to spend on a good sighting system since I can transfer it from bow to bow. I tried a peep sight set up. I would like to avoid the peep set up if possible due to vision constraints. What sights would you guys recommend that is peepless. I saw a red dot type (SABO). Kind of looked cool but not sure if it gets the nod from experienced bowmen.

Personally I recommend resisting the urge to turn your bow into a AR 15. They make some really cool fiber optic pin type sights now days. I just had flourescent paint which I applied myself.

I'd not use a peep either. I'd also not use a release but a glove or I used a finger pad.

I'd start with the basic bow and build on that. And remember all the new technology, bells and whistles only makes the old reliable last years models and 10 year old models just that much more affordable.

Don't get sucked in by high tech. It's a primitive but highly effective and successful hunting tool that you still need to get very close to deploy.

I'd start practicing judging distance now. I never cared about yards, I counted paces. I'd just pick something, in the woods, on a sidewalk, in the back yard and guess how many paces to it. Then I set my bow up for paces. I had 5 pins 10paces through 50 paces.

Todays modern bows and higher tech arrows (another whole subject to study up on) shoot a ton flatter than the old days but the same rules pretty much apply.

[garyb]

For me at this juncture, I am thinking that I want to spend on a good sighting system since I can transfer it from bow to bow. I tried a peep sight set up. I would like to avoid the peep set up if possible due to vision constraints. What sights would you guys recommend that is peepless. I saw a red dot type (SABO). Kind of looked cool but not sure if it gets the nod from experienced bowmen.



I shot fingers and bare bow for many years with traditional equipment. Simple stuff. It requires tons of practice. Nothing wrong with that. However, you will never be as consistently accurate out to 40 or 50 yards with bare bow (no sights and no release), as you will with fiber optic sights, release and a good 80% let down single cam. Think of a peep as your rear sight. The problem with peeps is obvious, but if you go to a larger aperture, like a 1/4" or larger, you will be able to see through the peep with no problem. You can use a drill to make the hole bigger, allow in more light and see through it better. It WILL help your consistency.


As for accessories like sights, peep, fall away rest, etc...., you will find that they greatly aid your consistency and accuracy. While they are not absolutely necessary for archery or bow hunting, they do not add that much to the weight of the bow in the long run. Most bows are at, or just under 4 lbs today. The accessories (sight, peep, fall away rest) will only add ounces, not pounds. So, don't worry about weight all that much. Your bow will be under 5 lbs.


The folks that gave you the advice on keeping the draw weight down, gave you very good advice. Some guys can shoot 70 lbs draw or more, but I'd suggest you get a bow that has a max of 60 and start with 50 or so. You will find it easier to shoot, until you build those bow muscles.
Likewise, you must get the proper draw length bow...one that fits YOU.
Good luck.

[Bill K]

Bill: I am currently shooting a Mission Rally. Nice all round very forgiving bow. It sounds like knkali is off to a good start. A good dedicated archery shop will, in the long run, save you a lot of money.

Also mosey on over to http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/
Really very helpful guys from all over the world. A few hours on that forum will really help.

I'm considering the Rally for shooting fingers instinctive. If it doesn't work out I can rig it with sights and release or unload it.

[muggsy]

Buy a crossbow! Buy a Crossbow! (With apologies to Joe Biden.)

[Bill K]

For me at this juncture, I am thinking that I want to spend on a good sighting system since I can transfer it from bow to bow. I tried a peep sight set up. I would like to avoid the peep set up if possible due to vision constraints. What sights would you guys recommend that is peepless. I saw a red dot type (SABO). Kind of looked cool but not sure if it gets the nod from experienced bowmen.

There are a dozen or so peep eliminator devices on the market. The one I've always used and can recommend is an older device called the Timberline "No Peep".

Ref: http://www.fsdiscountarchery.com/browseproducts/Timberline---No-Peep-.html

http://www.fsdiscountarchery.com/ProductImages/peeps/timberline_nopeep.jpg

[hardluk1]

This is the sight I have used for going on 10 years .
http://www.bowproshop.com/sports-optimizer-lite-3000-sight-p-125721.html

Rear pep sights are just like on a rifle. Smallest opening , hardest to acquire but tightest groups. Most gost sight like , fall right on place . Offers quick and easy access to a front sight view and hunting accuracy but no winning target accuracy.


Set up right they come right to your eye and work right.
This is the one I have used for 30 years . Or atleast an older version.
http://www.bowproshop.com/bohning-archery-bohning-slim-design-peep-sight-wtubing-hunter-p-125556.html


You really need some rear sight on your line to lengthen your sight picture.


Accessories for a bow are like for a firearm. The oldest brand name products are still and sell well cause they still work. But buy what you want. You can spend as much on a sight set up as a great basic bow.


Lots of short sight set up but that would be like shooting 40 yard groups with a rifle having a receiver sight or short barreled handgun even from a rest its less accurate.

[pinehtr]

Mathews Archery, one of the top manufacturers, makes a line called Mission. They offer very nice packages and their bows are very adjustable for length of draw and draw weight. Very nice products at affordable prices. Whatever you do, please go to a dedicated Archery shop. There are many adjustments needed to be made to make your bow shoot and fit correctly to your body specifications. You may pay a bit more. but they will fit it to you, explain how to shoot it properly, and that will save you a LOT of headaches later.

http://missionarchery.com/
Could not have said it better . I have bow hunted exclusively for years,
this advise is spot on.

[garyb]

I'm considering the Rally for shooting fingers instinctive. If it doesn't work out I can rig it with sights and release or unload it.



Shorter axle to axle length of most compound/single cam bows does not lend themselves to finger shooting, due to the string angle which causes finger pinch. Going to a long axle to axle compound will reduce this problem, as will using three fingers under the arrow nock. Some who use low draw weights can use a two finger draw, but that's is not practical for most people using that bow for hunting. If you experience finger pinch, it will affect your smooth release. Most of the short axle to axle length single cam bows are better shot with a release aide. I was always a traditional recurve shooter and never felt a release was for me, until I tried one with the newer 80% let down single cams. A good release is just like a good trigger on a gun. Accuracy and consistency is dramatically improved over finger shooting. There are some folks out there who have developed a good release with fingers, but there are far more archers and bow hunters who have better release with a release aide.


To visualize sting pinch, draw a 5" vertical line on a piece of paper to represent a bow, then at the mid point, draw a 5" line at 90 degrees to represent an arrow. Simply draw a line from each end of the bow, to the nock end of the arrow and look at the angle of the string. Then repeat this using a 3" vertical bow with the same 5" arrow. You can visualize how much the string angle changes with a shorter bow at the same draw length. Picture your fingers getting squished together within that angle.

[knkali]

Guys,
I just picked up my rig on Saturday. Shot some Sunday. What a hoot.
I went to a dedicated archery store and they set me up. I was there for over 5 hours figuring out what I needed/wanted and fitted everything. It was a long ordeal.


I ended up with:
PSE surge single cam bow set to 55lbs
wisker bisket rest
12 400grn carbon arrows
Bohning "Slim" Design Peep Sight w/Tubing
Spot Hogg hunter 5 pin sight( l learned from rifles not to skimp on glass so I figured same applies to bows) I figured I can move it to another bow later if I want.
I put a 12 inch Bee Stinger (?)Stabilizer on it
Release(cannot remember the name on it)


I went with the peep because they highly recommended not going with a peepless sight. They were that serious about it. I went with the single cam because it felt easier to draw for me.
I have a lot to work on and will be getting professional pointers so I do not develop bad habits a the start. I managed three arrows in the 9 ring at 20 right off the bat. Beginners luck. Now I am thinking too much and have to work to get anything remotely resembling a group. I am on paper with the first 3 pins to 40 yards so I a happy for now. YouTube has a lot of pointers out there to learn which has helped too. Things like grip and anchor point consistency ect.


Thanks for the help guys. I just jumped in and so far it seems like a sport I can get into for a long time. I found a great outdoor range to 70 meters not far from the house so that should help get me out there.

[Bawanna]

I'd not be playing at 40 yards yet. Stick to 10 or 20 max. When you get to where you put a different bullseye for each arrow cause your breaking nocks, then reach out a little further.

Hunting bows and target bows are two different worlds.

I guess if you can tolerate being in a tree stand target bows would work fine, hadn't thought of that before. If your hunting, less is more.

[hardluk1]

Sounds like the bow shop set you up with a good forgiving hunter bow. Shooting with a local bow clubs a good way to get some great advise and start to get a look at different target yardages .


Seems like your a natural with your bow. You may find the whisker bisket is nosey after being around other types of drop away rest. Most of us had it at some point and they work well enough to start with . Darn sure a good rest when a deer or hog shows up under you in a tree stand but at longer distance can help deer jump an arrow. . Glad the bow shop talked you in a boning peep. Kisser buttons can be harder to learn for a new shooter.

[knkali]

Thanks hardluk. It is a hoot. I went with the whisker bisket because it was cheap and simple and would never fail me. The peep is getting a little more "natural" as my anchor gets more comfortable. Amazing how every little thing links into each other to make a good shot. When my anchor is more "on" the peep is right there. When it isn't, I am searching for it and my shot ultimately suffers.

[hardluk1]

You'll find that anchor point problem returns the first time you shoot from a high location , like 20 feet up a tree. You may tend to bend only your shoulder like you could with a handgun or to a point with a rifle and can't get a solid anchor point . With a bow you have to bend way more from the waist and keep your shoulder locked in like your shooting at ground level. That's about the only form problems that can mess up a hunt or a match shot. Enjoy .

[garyb]

knkali,
Not a bad set up to start with at all. I agree that the wisker will work fine for a while, but the fall away rest is quieter and more forgiving....especially if you are peeking and moving your bow arm too fast so you can see your arrow after you release. Bad habit, but a fall away helps.


Up to last year, I used to shoot without a kisser button, but used a peep. Then I found that the kisser helped me reach my anchor much more quickly and lined up the peep quicker. Having both might be considered too much, but it helps me get on a deer much quicker than peep alone. I feel the peep is essential... akin to the back sight on a gun. The kisser is more, but for hunting, speeds up the anchor time...at least for me.


I few years ago I developed a new friendship with a guy who was born with a handicapped right hand (no fingers). I was in charge of setting up a 3D archery range for a local sportsmen club and he approached me saying that ever sense he was a little boy he wanted to shoot a bow. His mother had taken him to archery shops, but no one could figure out how to make it happen, so he decided that it never would. He told me that everyone approached it by saying he would need a prosthesis for his right hand to hold the bow, and draw it left handed. His Mom could not afford a prosthesis. He was well into his 40's when I met him. I had an old compound at home and dropped the weight to 40 lbs. I had some old aluminum arrows. I purchased a release to experiment with. I rigging it up with a strap that he could put on his right upper arm to pull the bow back and release it with his right hand which had pretty good dexterity even without fingers. I experimented with it and it seemed to work. All he needed to do was pull the bow back with his right upper arm (release attached). When he did this the release would line up with his right hand. All he needed to do was bend his wrist to have his hand hit the trigger on the release. I made the release adjustable so I could fit it to his arm, as well as the length to reach his hand. Once he attached the release to the string, he could pull the bow back and his right hand would line up with the trigger. Seemed to work. I decided to approach him to give it a try. He was all in but obviously nervous. So was I. He pulled the bow back just fine, released the arrow, which hit the target in the center at 10 yards away. He let the bow fall to his side, looked at me and started crying. He said, "I've wanted to do that my entire life...Thanks Bro." I'll never forget his face, joy and excitement. He thanked me for many months, every time he saw me. I gave him the bow and arrows and he shot every single day. He soon purchased a Mathews single cam bow and went into it full bore. It is always exciting to me to see new people to archery.


Anyway, with all that said, you will have plenty of time to tinker and experiment now that you are on your way. You will get plenty of advice along the way, which you will need to sort out for yourself. Some of it will be good and you will figure out what to discard. It does not take long to figure out who really know archery and who does not. Enjoy this great sport. Best of luck to you.

[Bawanna]

Excellent story garyb. You rock.

[knkali]

knkali,
Not a bad set up to start with at all. I agree that the wisker will work fine for a while, but the fall away rest is quieter and more forgiving....especially if you are peeking and moving your bow arm too fast so you can see your arrow after you release. Bad habit, but a fall away helps.


Up to last year, I used to shoot without a kisser button, but used a peep. Then I found that the kisser helped me reach my anchor much more quickly and lined up the peep quicker. Having both might be considered too much, but it helps me get on a deer much quicker than peep alone. I feel the peep is essential... akin to the back sight on a gun. The kisser is more, but for hunting, speeds up the anchor time...at least for me.


I few years ago I developed a new friendship with a guy who was born with a handicapped right hand (no fingers). I was in charge of setting up a 3D archery range for a local sportsmen club and he approached me saying that ever sense he was a little boy he wanted to shoot a bow. His mother had taken him to archery shops, but no one could figure out how to make it happen, so he decided that it never would. He told me that everyone approached it by saying he would need a prosthesis for his right hand to hold the bow, and draw it left handed. His Mom could not afford a prosthesis. He was well into his 40's when I met him. I had an old compound at home and dropped the weight to 40 lbs. I had some old aluminum arrows. I purchased a release to experiment with. I rigging it up with a strap that he could put on his right upper arm to pull the bow back and release it with his right hand which had pretty good dexterity even without fingers. I experimented with it and it seemed to work. All he needed to do was pull the bow back with his right upper arm (release attached). When he did this the release would line up with his right hand. All he needed to do was bend his wrist to have his hand hit the trigger on the release. I made the release adjustable so I could fit it to his arm, as well as the length to reach his hand. Once he attached the release to the string, he could pull the bow back and his right hand would line up with the trigger. Seemed to work. I decided to approach him to give it a try. He was all in but obviously nervous. So was I. He pulled the bow back just fine, released the arrow, which hit the target in the center at 10 yards away. He let the bow fall to his side, looked at me and started crying. He said, "I've wanted to do that my entire life...Thanks Bro." I'll never forget his face, joy and excitement. He thanked me for many months, every time he saw me. I gave him the bow and arrows and he shot every single day. He soon purchased a Mathews single cam bow and went into it full bore. It is always exciting to me to see new people to archery.


Anyway, with all that said, you will have plenty of time to tinker and experiment now that you are on your way. You will get plenty of advice along the way, which you will need to sort out for yourself. Some of it will be good and you will figure out what to discard. It does not take long to figure out who really know archery and who does not. Enjoy this great sport. Best of luck to you.
you are a good man. Good work Gary

[garyb]

It worked out good for him and we were both very glad. His thanks was the ultimate. Thanks guys.