PM9 magazine cartridge retention poor

[wyntrout]

After finding that the P380 and PM45 have 2-part slide stops, I was curious about the PM9. I removed the magazine and noticed the top cartridge was forward a bit. I cleared the chamber and removed the slide stop. It's one piece... the pin is solid. You can't hold the pin and rotate the lever about the pin inside the larger pin, there isn't one.:D With preventing binding there in mind, I liberally, I mean I used a lot of Remington Oil on that pin, "wetting" it well.
I put the gun back together and chambered a round. I took the magazine out and it was forward a bunch. This is not as big a problem with the PM9 as the slide lock is further away from the cartridges in the magazine than in the PM45 and the P380.
It is troubling though, that these darn Kahr mags don't hold the cartridges in place. I can feel a DLT session coming... maybe just a hint of a detent on the inside of the magazine lips next to the cartridge rims. Maybe I don't need the DLT for this. The small triangular file may suffice.
Note: The rounds are Double Tap 124-gr GDs +P. PIX:
Wynn:rolleyes:

Dang, I had better try to get some sleep! It's after 4AM.

[Bawanna]

After finding that the P380 and PM45 have 2-part slide stops, I was curious about the PM9. I removed the magazine and noticed the top cartridge was forward a bit. I cleared the chamber and removed the slide stop. It's one piece... the pin is solid. You can't hold the pin and rotate the lever about the pin inside the larger pin, there isn't one.:D With preventing binding there in mind, I liberally, I mean I used a lot of Remington Oil on that pin, "wetting" it well.
I put the gun back together and chambered a round. I took the magazine out and it was forward a bunch. This is not as big a problem with the PM9 as the slide lock is further away from the cartridges in the magazine than in the PM45 and the P380.
It is troubling though, that these darn Kahr mags don't hold the cartridges in place. I can feel a DLT session coming... maybe just a hint of a detent on the inside of the magazine lips next to the cartridge rims. Maybe I don't need the DLT for this. The small triangular file may suffice.
Note: The rounds are Double Tap 124-gr GDs +P. PIX:
Wynn:rolleyes:

Dang, I had better try to get some sleep! It's after 4AM.

What's it really hurt Wynn. Several of my guns do that, my K40, my compact Para, don't seem to hurt anything that I can tell. I've found that with my PM45 I can get a 6th round far enough into the mag but not all the way back but far enough to get it in the gun and drop the slide. Don't have to top load.

[snuffy]

Many mags do that. Doesn't hurt a thing.

[wyntrout]

Evidently it doesn't bother the PM9 because there's extra space in that area to the rear of the cartridge and the side next to the slide stop. With the P380, if the cartridge is forward any, it touches the slide stop and when things are banging around during ejection and chambering, things happen that shouldn't or don't happen that should.
I polished the lower part of the slide that rides over the next cartridge and pushes it down, trying to cut down on the friction that drags the next round out of position. These guns are compact and things have to be working well together, as designed, for the gun to function properly. There's a lot less space for slop or error in the P380 and the PM45... especially the PM45.
So far, several of my theories and "corrections" haven't solved my P380 problems. It could have been back to the shop 2 or 3 more times and be working properly by now... maybe... but I hoped that I could correct it here.:rolleyes:
Wynn:)

[joelotto]

wyntrout

The part of the slide that you polished if I understand correctly would be #9 on the lube diagram....right? http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/308-kahr-lube-diagram.html Does the face of that piece pull the next bullet up the ramp after the shell is ejected and the slide is moving forward???

One more question while I'm asking....what is the purpose of the metal piece that is attached to the back of the frame....kinda long and goes to a point.

[Bawanna]

wyntrout

The part of the slide that you polished if I understand correctly would be #9 on the lube diagram....right? http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/308-kahr-lube-diagram.html Does the face of that piece pull the next bullet up the ramp after the shell is ejected and the slide is moving forward???

One more question while I'm asking....what is the purpose of the metal piece that is attached to the back of the frame....kinda long and goes to a point.

Exactly, #9 I think they refer to as the stripper, it does indeed sneak up behind the top round in your mag and push it into the chamber. I believe Wynn's theory is if that stripper is smooth, there will be less drag and less tendency for it to drag the next cartridge forward as it rides over. The bevel we've heard about here of late if the leading edge of that stripper. A few don't quite slip behind the top cartride, so they bevel it a bit so it can slide in front so you can do the prescribed slide lock release load as opposed to pulling and releasing the slide by hand (slingshot)
The metal piece you refer to is the ejector. The extractor is the claw on the side of the chamber opening, it drags the case out of the chamber as the slide reaches it's rear most it hits againt that ejector and it kicks it towards the right and out the ejection port.

[wyntrout]

Joe, that's right. the leading edge of #9 should go behind the top cartridge and strip it off and shove it up the ramp into the chamber as the slide returns to battery. Polishing that will cause less drag on the next cartridge as that part of the slide rides over it.

See the URL or Link below.

In some of the .45s, there was no space behind the cartridge base and in fact, the un-beveled leading edge of the "stripper" rested on the rim of the top cartridge and when the slide was released, the stripper would ride over the cartridge to an empty chamber, or the cartridge might wind up in an intermediate position jamming the gun. Kahr's fix was to bevel the leading edge of this stripper so that it would go behind the cartridge base. It does this by pushing on the base or rim of the top cartridge, forcing the magazine forward just enough to let the stripper get behind the cartridge and everything is fine. The cartridge is not pushed forward in the magazine, rather the magazine is pushed forward just enough for proper functioning.
That's the long wordy explanation. If you had an un-beveled stripper, you could easily do it yourself or send it back to Kahr for them to do it.
There's also the "Notch", a needed gap between the barrel opening and the recoil assembly "seat" inside the front of the slide, to give the recoil spring assembly room to move as the barrel tips to unlock for the slide to recoil. Without this gap, the spring assembly beats against the divider there (thin metal that should have been machined away) and attempts to batter its own gap, possibly causing malfunctions in feeding and ejecting.
This is another thing that you can do yourself or send it back to Kahr.

That's the beauty of this forum, that you can learn about things like this or pass on your own discoveries or fixes to others on the forum. There is a lot of information that can be searched here on this forum.

See http://kahrtalk.com/general-discussion/1757-new-pm45-way.html#post17700
My 2:15 post has an explanation and pictures.

Wynn:D

[wyntrout]

Well, I just fired off an email to Ian at Kahr with my "exploits" with the P380 and many pictures. I can imagine his reaction... :eek::crazy::2eek::ohmy:
Wynn:w00t:

[jocko]

I just looked at my G19 stripper/interface bar. The end of the stripper is totally 90 degrees square, not a bevel at all on it. Never a malfuncion with my G19 either. My 2 cents on this..

[wyntrout]

Apples and Leprechauns... different designs. That works in my PM9... plenty of room, but not so for the P380 or PM45.
Wynn:D

[OldLincoln]

This may not have anything to do with anything, but take a look at Wynn's top post pics. Notice the clip top does not fit evenly along the cartridge. The left side angles away while the right side fits flush throughout. This is what I was describing re: mag well mods.

If you hold a straightedge alongside the mag, you will probably see a space just below the curved portion. It stands to reason that if the mag top fit evenly it would grip the cartridge better. Conversely there may be a reason for it and I have to be sure before messing with it as I don't have a any spare spares.