Questions on FTF

[jgedmond]

I bought a used MK-9 which looks to be in excellent condition and lightly used. After 2 range sessions, I have had several failures to feed. In one case, I noticed that the slide was locked back even though there were still cartridges in the magazine. This was the only time I noticed that, usually the round just hung on the feed ramp.

I am shooting mostly reloads and load to an OAL of 1.150" based on good functioning in my other pistols, all of which have the more traditional centered (and not so steep) feed ramps

Is 1.150" OAL too long for the MK-9? If others reload for the MK-9, what OAL do you use?

Any thoughts on the premature slide lockback?

Thanks in advance for any help with these questions.

[Bawanna]

I bought a used MK-9 which looks to be in excellent condition and lightly used. After 2 range sessions, I have had several failures to feed. In one case, I noticed that the slide was locked back even though there were still cartridges in the magazine. This was the only time I noticed that, usually the round just hung on the feed ramp.

I am shooting mostly reloads and load to an OAL of 1.150" based on good functioning in my other pistols, all of which have the more traditional centered (and not so steep) feed ramps

Is 1.150" OAL too long for the MK-9? If others reload for the MK-9, what OAL do you use?

Any thoughts on the premature slide lockback?

Thanks in advance for any help with these questions.

The slide lock with bullets left is quite commonly caused by the shooter inadvertantly hitting the lever with his thumb. You won't even know it and you might not even believe it but many here, myself included can attest to it happening. I'd try left handing it or have another shooter try it or have them watch you while you shoot. It could be the slide lock lever spring but on the MK's and most of the steel models the spring is pretty scoocum and seldom causes issues.
As far as the feed issues I'd probably try some factory ammo or match the factory overall length. Kahrs generally are not fussy and will digest most anything you throw at them within reason although they may indeed favor one over the other. I'd check the feed ramp for roughness and try different mags if available. A follower or weak mag spring can sometimes contribute to the maladies you refer to.
Stay with it, the MK9 is a great gun without question. Stick with us and we'll all work on it together till she runs for ya.

[jgedmond]

Bawanna, thanks for the advice, I'll check into each point that you mentioned. I did not state it, but I shoot left-handed and was testing brand new Kahr branded mags, so I will check the length on some commercial ammo and look carefully at and, possibly, polish the feed ramp.

I love this little gun. It's my wife's primary EDC and I want it to function as close to 100% as possible. She's pretty savvy, but no need to deal with malfunction drills in the middle of a fight if we can avoid it.

[jocko]

u can go to this forum and look up ther serial numbers of your MK9 and find out just how old or how new it is. It might surprise you. Kahrs don't show wear , so ur guessing at this time. Go to kahr tech section and hit on the very first sticky. that will tellyou alot. What Bawanna said is correct IMO. #1 get away from the reloads, eliminate any possable issues first before panicking. Your thumb is probalbly hitting the slide lock lever and ur not knowing it, so jsut beware. These smallguns are very prone to that. Another thing to look up is in the kahr tech section. PROPPER PREPPING OF YOUR NEW KAHR. rthere are some tips in there to look for also, such as rounds hitting the inside of the slide stop etc. That thread will serve you well.

Your MK9 has a captive recoil system (two springs). Make sure the outter one is on correctly with the open end of the recol spring towards the front of the slide. If the gun has some age on it after you check it out with the serial numbers, I would call kahr and order an entire new recoil assembly.

Also on the back of that recoil assembly, that flat washer type thing that goes against the barrel lug. Measure across it. It should be 1/2". If you have the 3/8", u have the older style which indicates older gun that you thought. Order a new style, as that is all that kahr sells anymore.

I do think your gun is OK. Also be very aware of your grip etc, The MK being all steel is not prone to limpwristing but it can be done. Propper grip. again you want to eliminate all the possable before getting to excited. The gun could also be so new that it has now went through it propper break in rounds.

Keep us informed.

P.S. Put the reloads on the back shelf until you get to the bottom of the issues...an out of spec length reload can indeed engage the slide lock lever prematurely...

P. S.I just noticed your shoot left handed, so skip the thumb thing. that ain't the issue..

Pretty close to 100% is ok in horse shoes and hand grenadea but not with a gun that you might need to save your life.

[Bawanna]

Bawanna, thanks for the advice, I'll check into each point that you mentioned. I did not state it, but I shoot left-handed and was testing brand new Kahr branded mags, so I will check the length on some commercial ammo and look carefully at and, possibly, polish the feed ramp.

I love this little gun. It's my wife's primary EDC and I want it to function as close to 100% as possible. She's pretty savvy, but no need to deal with malfunction drills in the middle of a fight if we can avoid it.

Well that eliminates the user error theory completely. I'd just check for good down tension on that take down lever. If it only happened the one time could just be a fluke deal.

[jgedmond]

Thanks guys, great info. I check the sticky, the points that you raised, and report back.

[jgedmond]

OK, here's what I found out so far:


serial number GC34xx places manufacture between Jan 2006 (GC33xx) and Aug 2007 (GC38xx)



flat on back end of recoil assembly is 1/2" diameter



the open end of recoil assembly is to the front of the slide



when I inserted the slide locking pin with the slide removed and inserted a full mag, the slide lock moved upward as the round passed it, but returned to the down position when the mag was fully seated. Is this normal? FYI, an empty mag moved the slide lock up and it stayed up after full insertion.

Next I will get some polishing compound for my Dremel and polish the feed ramp, under the mag lips, and the chamber. Then retry with commercial ammo on next range trip.

By the way, I measured the OAL of Speer GDHP 124+P that is our PD ammo and it is 1.120" versus my reloads at 1.150". Does that length difference seem significant to you?

[Bawanna]

OK, here's what I found out so far:


serial number GC34xx places manufacture between Jan 2006 (GC33xx) and Aug 2007 (GC38xx)



flat on back end of recoil assembly is 1/2" diameter



the open end of recoil assembly is to the front of the slide



when I inserted the slide locking pin with the slide removed and inserted a full mag, the slide lock moved upward as the round passed it, but returned to the down position when the mag was fully seated. Is this normal? FYI, an empty mag moved the slide lock up and it stayed up after full insertion.

Next I will get some polishing compound for my Dremel and polish the feed ramp, under the mag lips, and the chamber. Then retry with commercial ammo on next range trip.

By the way, I measured the OAL of Speer GDHP 124+P that is our PD ammo and it is 1.120" versus my reloads at 1.150". Does that length difference seem significant to you?

The slide lock staying up on the empty mag is normal and a good thing. I'm not certain on the loaded rounds pushing it up and then popping down. Don't seem right. The overall length could be enough to cause issues. What type of bullet are your reloads. If they are ball the extra length may or may not be significant. It's not alot but could be just over the line. Gotta break out the loading manual.

[jocko]

No rounds shold ever move that slide stop lever PERIOD. They should never touch it. Your rounds are bad,. Get rid of those reloads and get some decent ammo. I would suggest WWB from wal mart. 100 pak for around $23. it is good ammo and if those rounds move that slide lock lever, then call Kahr and talk to IAN and he will more than likely just send you a new lever..

The length difference is significiant enough to be causing pre mature slide lock and it will also cause feeding issues as it is knocking the round off course, for lack of better words... The MK 9 is really a trouble free gun, eaks in quality. I still feel your issues are ammo related..

[at_liberty]

I disagree with some of the advice. Used on similar incidents, it did not prove practical.

First I would validate that the problem occurs with factory new ammo. If so, try a couple different brands to be sure.

If the problem does not seem to be ammo related, don't order parts but rather send the whole gun back to Kahr. Let them figure it out and do the repair work. I have a similar action in the PM40 and have parts that don't fit and I can't use. Just skip that step and send the gun back. I think we do too much amateur tinkering and guesswork in attempting to avoid shipping a gun.

[jgedmond]

No rounds shold ever move that slide stop lever PERIOD. They should never touch it. Your rounds are bad,. Get rid of those reloads and get some decent ammo. I would suggest WWB from wal mart. 100 pak for around $23. it is good ammo and if those rounds move that slide lock lever, then call Kahr and talk to IAN and he will more than likely just send you a new lever..

The length difference is significiant enough to be causing pre mature slide lock and it will also cause feeding issues as it is knocking the round off course, for lack of better words... The MK 9 is really a trouble free gun, eaks in quality. I still feel your issues are ammo related..

jocko, the slide lock movement test was done with the Speer GDHP 124+P, not the reloads. Those commercial rounds measure 1.120" in OAL.

[jgedmond]

OK, I finally got to the range with WWB and about the 3rd shot, the slide locked back with rounds still in the mag. It happened multiple additional times with different mags. Then, the mag release sheared off where the slot is machined for the hold down screw!

In case y'all don,t recall, this is the gun where I had the mags failing to drop. It seems all of the problem started when I squeezed the top of the mags to get them to stop sticking and drop freely. Prior to that, I had shot 110 rounds in a range session with reloads and had no premature slide lock back or FTF problems.

I just ordered 2 new mags and will call Kahr for a new mag release on Monday. I will not do anything to these mags and see if the problem is solved. If so, the gun is going back to Kahr to fix the mag nor dropping issue the right way.

[jocko]

very very strange for a steel kahr to not drop mags freely. Maybe these new mags will solve that also. I am trying to visulize the slide lever sheering off and can't figure out the slot for the hold down screw.

[jgedmond]

very very strange for a steel kahr to not drop mags freely. Maybe these new mags will solve that also. I am trying to visulize the slide lever sheering off and can't figure out the slot for the hold down screw.

jocko, it was the mag release that sheared off at the slot where the spring retaining screw locks the mag release into the frame.

I have the 2 original mags (6 & 7 rounds) and bought 2 more 6 rounds (Kahr brand) and none dropped freely, so I squeezed them to allow free drop. I don't hold out much hope for the next set of new mags to drop free, I just hope that they solve the premature slide lock back issue.

[Bawanna]

"In case y'all don,t recall, this is the gun where I had the mags failing to drop."

Did you happen to see if the grip screws were too tight? That will prevent the mags from dropping also or slow them down. Should be tell tale signs of the grip screws dragging on the mags.

[jocko]

jocko, it was the mag release that sheared off at the slot where the spring retaining screw locks the mag release into the frame.

I have the 2 original mags (6 & 7 rounds) and bought 2 more 6 rounds (Kahr brand) and none dropped freely, so I squeezed them to allow free drop. I don't hold out much hope for the next set of new mags to drop free, I just hope that they solve the premature slide lock back issue.

OK, I gotcha, I was thinking of the slide lock release. even what you had happen is so so rare. not sure even if I have ever readof this before. What u can do when you get the new mags is to take the grips off and see how they work. you should be able to see then if and where it is rubbing . Bawanna had a good point about the grip screws, Just very strange for a stell kahr to not dropmags freely..

The premature slide locking back, if it happens two things to try. let another shooter try it, and they also try shooting it left handed. Keep us posted also.

[at_liberty]

I wonder if this is another case of the slide lock being inserted on top of the spring instead of under it. We know that causes premature slide locks and it could set up a damaging collision of parts when the gun fires. Just a hunch for something to check.

[jgedmond]

Thanks for the suggestion, but slide lock spring is on top. What appears to be happening is that the round below the one fed into the chamber is sliding forward far enough to activate the slide lock. I think it is from messing with the magazines in an effort to get them to drop freely (see above).

[jocko]

Thanks for the suggestion, but slide lock spring is on top. What appears to be happening is that the round below the one fed into the chamber is sliding forward far enough to activate the slide lock. I think it is from messing with the magazines in an effort to get them to drop freely (see above).

the new mags don't solve that issue, call kahr and ask for a new slide stop lever. Yours could be out of spec a tad and you would not be able to see it.

Easy check: take the slide off, reinsert the slide lock lever and then insert a loaded magazine and watch on the inside what that top round is doing on the left side. It if is pushingup that slide stop lever evn in the slightest, get another slide stop lever. They should not touch the slide stop lever.

[jgedmond]

the new mags don't solve that issue, call kahr and ask for a new slide stop lever. Yours could be out of spec a tad and you would not be able to see it.

Easy check: take the slide off, reinsert the slide lock lever and then insert a loaded magazine and watch on the inside what that top round is doing on the left side. It if is pushingup that slide stop lever evn in the slightest, get another slide stop lever. They should not touch the slide stop lever.

I got the mags and mag release on the way, but am out of town for awhile. I will report back in a few weeks when I get a chance to test everything again.

[jgedmond]

Followup to last post. I tested everything with brand new mags and still the slide locked back with rounds in the magazine. Boxed it up and sent back to Kahr just before the July 4th (July 2) holiday and received it back on July 8! Needless to say, I was very impressed with the fast turnaround. They replaced the slide lock spring and polished the slide lock. They ignored the issue about mags not dropping freely. Tested at the range again today and nothing has changed, slide still locks back with rounds in the magazine. I have 6 mags and shot each twice with 5 rounds. Every mag locked back at least once and several multiple times during the tests. A couple of mags did not lock back when empty. I am a very unhappy camper and will be reading Kahr the riot act on Monday. They need to fix this gun or replace it without further expense to me for shipping it back.

[jgedmond]

It's been awhile since I updated this thread due to vacation, sending gun back to Kahr, etc. Kahr "polished" the slide stop and replaced the slide stop spring. Upon return, I used American Eagle and Speer GDHP to test function. Ian said that these were what they had in the range at the time my gun was test fired after the repairs.

Well, 2 of 60 rounds of American Eagle 124 caused the slide to lock back in the middle of a magazine as did 3 of 28 Speer GDHPs. This was using 4 different, brand-new Kahr magazines. Several times the slide did not lock back when the magazine was empty.

I have 3 other 9mm handguns (2 HKs and a Taurus) that have more rounds through them than the MK9, they never lock back prematurely, always lock back on an empty mag, and drop their mags freely.

I guess I'll be calling Kahr again on Monday. I'm beginning to think that this will be my first and last Kahr product. It is very frustrating to spend more time trying to make the gun work than shooting it.

[Jim K]

JG,

I hope you get your pistol working and share the fix with us. I'm sorry that you are having so much trouble but sometimes the experience can save someone else alot of grief.

I think that Kahr owes you a pistol that works 100% without multiple (any)trips back to the mother ship. They also owe you a clear explaination for the problem, not "more rounds down range".

My Kahr serves me well after a whole bunch of grief but it is like getting back together with a girl friend from a failed relationship. It's not the same. The new girl is much better.

A pistol is not so complicated that it should have "teething problems" like you are having.

Kahr is better than this and I hope you hold their toes to the fire. Just my opinion.



Good luck, Jim K.

[jgedmond]

Jim K, thanks for your thoughts, I agree. Coincidentally, I just talked to (the new) Ian at Kahr this afternoon. His contention is that basically I must be allowing the gun to move too much which does not allow the slide to cycle and operate properly. I do not believe this to be the case, since my last test was done seated in a chair at a table using a rest.

The only option that I have left is to sell the gun. Even if Ian is correct, it is not worth learning a new way to shoot this particular gun when I have four other that I can operate just fine. Too bad; I really like the size, style, and CCW capabilities of this gun, but it is just not reliable for me or my wife.

[Jim K]

The fact that the slide moves back far enough to lock makes me question the "moving around" thing. Something is making the slide lock move.

We've discussed bullet interference with the slide stop, slide stop spring, and gripping the pistol with the opposite hand. We're missing something.
If the bullets are interfering with the slide stop then we have not figured out why.

It's tough to do transcontinental troubleshooting and I don't claim to have all the answers but I am sure I am not alone in my curiosity about this problem.

Good luck, Jim K.

[OldLincoln]

I wonder if that's why the first guy sold it to you. He may have tried it and failed but put it in the safe rather than deal with it at the time. I hate to see a problem gun just get passed around and each new owner becomes jaded at Kahr.

Seems by now they would replace all parts to see if it was fixed, and shoot at least 100rds to test it. This polish something is obviously a failed response and too many folks get that repair for just about any problem reported.

I really like my PM9 but decided to also carry my dad's Colt 45 instead of trying to get a PM45. Maybe someday Kahr will turn this "good gun/bad gun" thing around.

[frank_drebin]

I just bought a used CW40 for about 1/2 what they go for new because the owner complained of a similar problem. When I got it home I found the slide stop spring bent at a 90 degree angle. I straightened it and went shooting. 150 flawless rounds..... Not bad for $200

[Bawanna]

Not bad at all. A little trouble shooting, some minor effort and you turned a junker that aggravated one man into another mans keeper.

Good for you dude!

[frank_drebin]

I've gotten more guns that way. I bought my XD9 at a local pawn shop. The guy said he'd give it to me for $225 because it was misfeeding. I pulled the mag, it was a 40sw mag, offered him $200 and walked out with it. Funny thing is, I went in a few days later and asked if they had any XD mags and traded the 40sw mag even for a 9mm mag.

[jgedmond]

So who wants to buy my MK9 project gun with Meprolight night sights, 6 mags, two holsters? :D

[Bawanna]

$225 with 6 PM45 mags with it?

[frank_drebin]

So who wants to buy my MK9 project gun with Meprolight night sights, 6 mags, two holsters? :D

Trade you for it. PM me if interested. I have some interesting guns we could discuss for her or you.

[Bawanna]

Didn't look to trade that was my offer. Figured you'd make a profit at that.
I guess your 6 mags would be MK9 mags but I was hoping for PM45 mags too.

[jgedmond]

Didn't look to trade that was my offer. Figured you'd make a profit at that.
I guess your 6 mags would be MK9 mags but I was hoping for PM45 mags too.

there are 5 MK9 6 round mags and 1 7 round MK9 mag.

Bawanna, you're a nice guy and have been very helpful, but "make a profit"???

6 mags, meprolights installed, and 2 holsters are worth more than $225!!