Boberg Update. Runs like a Swiss Watch

[TheTman]

I have several hundred flawless rounds through my Boberg XR9-S. I remember that quite a few had doubts about the complexity of the design of the pistol, but mine has been trouble free.
There were also comments about how funny the XR9S looked, so you may like the looks of the XR9L better, it has a much more conventional appearance with a 4.2" barrel and 7 round mag.
And the Big News is:
They are about to release a .45 that is rated for .45+P and .45 Super. The darn things are too expensive though, and I can't afford another thousand dollar pistol.
The XR45S, has a 3.75 inch barrel, with a mag that hold 6 rounds.
The XR9L has a longer 4.2" barrel with an accessory rail on the bottom of the slide.

I'm sorry, but I think it's a bit ironic, that people are having so much trouble with "conventional" pistols, like the P/CW380, and now I am seeing more and more CM9 problems appearing on the forum. After everyone was raving about it being such a great gun. I still think it's a good little gun, and a few sneak by Quality Control and make it to the gun stores. I think maybe Kahr needs to work on Quality Control, and finding out where things are going wrong on the assembly line. Oh well, Kahr is a pretty big company, and can stand a little bad press here and there, where Boberg is just a small company that can't afford negative press.

I remember all the references to Occam's razor, and keeping things simple. Maybe Occam's Razor isn't that big of a deal, if you engineer things properly. And keep a very close eye on what leaves the factory.

Over at the Boberg forum, everyone is pretty happy, with very few complaints, and hardly a report of a malfunction. Of course they could edit out any negative comments, but I don't get the feeling that they would do that, if there was a problem, they would want to jump on it immediately and see what the problem is, and leave the message up in case others had a similar problem. That is just the way Arne Boberg is. We talked on the phone for 15 or 20 minutes, and he is a real down to Earth guy, that is aiming to provide a trouble free and reliable pistol right out of the box
that you can bet your life on. As many of us are.
Much like the Glock Perfection, he is seeking Boberg Perfection, as he should for such high priced pistols.
There just haven't been that many malfunctions for them to fix that I have found. They really test the hell out of the pistols, before even thinking about selling them. The XR9S was in it's 11th or 12th version, when they decided it was ready to be released.
The biggest complaint so far, is that the grip screws get rusty from sweat in warmer climates.
Hickock45 tests the Boberg out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckyUmldwiDo

Here is the XR45-S:
http://kartalk.pccomps.com/XR45-S.jpg


The XR9L 9mm:
http://kartalk.pccomps.com/XR9L%209mm.jpg

In conclusion, I think I'd pick this 7+1 pistol with it longer barrel, over the PM9 with a shorter barrel and a 6+1 capacity. The only thing I worry about with this gun, is having to use it and it going into an evidence bag. I dunno, I may decide to forget the CM45, and spend a lot more and get the XR45S. What the hell, it's only money. Particularly since Kahr seems to be having some quality control issues. That will require a lot of thought. I may want something cheaper that I wouldn't mind dropping into an evidence bag.
But even after saying all that, I'd still love to have a K9 or K40, or MK9 or 40. Those are some sweet guns. A K45 would really get my attention.

And I don't mean to trash talk Kahrs, they are fine weapons, Like we are fond of saying there are tens of thousands of happy owners with trouble free guns out there, but when something goes wrong, it seems like we are going to hear about it. I know my CW40 isn't going anywhere very soon.
And I sure regret having to sell my CW45.
And I suppose if Boberg sold as many guns as Kahr does, then the forum would have a lot more talk about malfunctions.
__________________

[berettabone]

I sure hope that they don't get to "glock perfection" an oxymoron. Any firearm that resembles a block in any way, goes in the garbage can. Hopefully, they do much better.;)

[Longitude Zero]

Well you can always buy another CW45. As to the evidence bag I always tell folks that if you use a firearm in a defensive manner spend no more on the pistol than you can afford to lose as if it is confiscated it will be quite a while before you see it again. PD's do not clean the weapons seized and if there is any blood/brains/contaminants they will be highly corrosive to the pistol. Glad you are having excellent service out of a high priced gun. The more you pay the better it should work. True most of the time but there are always exceptions.

[Bawanna]

I try to arrange to clean or oil guns we take in if the situation allows. Sometimes they just can't even be touched, prints, evidence stuff. I even on a few occasions arranged visitation sessions ,not conjugal with gun owners and their guns while things were getting straightened out.

It's sad that guns used in a legal shooting need to be locked up for so long, strictly due to lawyers. This applies to cops as well as civilians.

Also sad to take the value of the gun into consideration when selecting a carry gun but I know many officers and others who won't carry certain guns as they don't want to risk losing them.

It took me 3 years to get one of our MP5's out of gun prison. I was told to write it off as we'd never see it again. Didn't sit well with me at all and I was burr under the lawyers and defense attorney's saddle until they finally gave it back. It was a mess just as Longitude said.

[getsome]

+1 My Ars is still chapped about a very nice stolen and recovered 1911 that I'm sure is in some County Official's private collection now because it was just too nice to give back to the rightful owner....I wont make the mistake of having to lose a real nice gun anymore, better to carry a beater that shoots straight but if lost wouldn't hurt so much....

[Bawanna]

That's the sad thing, you have a beautiful nice gun and you can't carry it for fear of using it.

I didn't even consider the agencies that don't give em back. I had a couple stolen back in the early 80's in a burglary. Everything except 50 silver dollars and my guns was returned.

I was actually able to confirm that my guns were on the chief of polices desk, I spoke with his secretary? I went to the station almost weekly for over a year after I confirmed they were there and they stuck to the story that they weren't recovered.

There was a lot of unethical stuff happening at that agency in those days.

I still carry the serial numbers in my wallet and when I see those models at a range or shop I ask to see them. Ya just never know.

[jocko]

that why I don't carry my engraved Model 60. I cherish those PINK ass grtips u made for me more than the gun even. Just sayin They are simply irresplaceabe.

[Bawanna]

Never thought of it before but might be nice to carry a sledge hammer or a hack saw and if you have to use your gun, once the threat is over, cut it in half or beat it unrecognizable. You may never get it back but they won't have anything to enjoy while it's incarcerated.

Also a good reason to have duplicates of every gun you might carry.

I'm coming up with some fine ideas here.

[TheTman]

I figure there is a very slight chance that I will ever have to use it, I stay out of trouble spots, and am not out late at night, when bad things tend to be more frequent.


So I really don't worry too much about losing it in an evidence bag. But I have a CC permit, so no reason not to have a firearm on me just in case.
And if it comes down to it, I figure or at least hope my life is worth $1K.


I was a little surprised that there have been so few problems reported, considering the complexity of the feeding mechanism, but I guess if it will hold up in a fully automatic machine gun, then a pistol shouldn't be that tough on it. And Arne Boberg really but a lot of thought and effort into the design. He told me on the phone that he wants his pistols to be fully reliable right out of the box, with no break in period required, although I'm sure most people are going to run a few hundred rounds through it before they start CC'ing it. I know if I can't get at least 200 trouble free rounds out of a pistol, I won't carry it. Arne has a lot at stake in his pistols, and he is very particular (anal?) about them, and they have to be as close to perfect as he can get them before they are released to the public. And he is very active on the forum, ready to answer any concerns anyone has. I really like how he interacts with his customers, and takes their suggestions and ideas to heart, like he was going to make the .45 model in .45 GAP, since it would require less modification, but the feedback was pretty negative on the .45GAP, due to expense and availability of the cartridge, so he listened, and made in in .45 ACP.
Can you imagine Justin Moon taking an active part in the discussions here on Kahr Talk? Talking with people about the problems they have had with his guns.
But Boberg Arms is much smaller, and Arne is extremely interested in what folks are saying about the pistols.
BTW, Arne's choice of carry weapon (Before the XR9 was ready) and one he refers to a lot is the PM9. The PM9 was one of the benchmark pistols, that he used, he wanted his pistol to at least equal the PM9's performance, and surpass it if he could. I think he did a pretty good job, his mags hold one more round than the PM9, has a bit longer barrel, and accuracy is about the same or possibly a hair better. It's a bit smaller than the PM9, not by much, but smaller. It is heavier, with the metal frame by a couple ounces. I don't find that a problem.


A PM9 vs XR9 comparison on Glock Talk:
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1460283


Some write-ups from The Truth About Guns, where they had some problems:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/07/eric-nelson/boberg-xr9-s-review-part-deux/


http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/05/eric-nelson/gun-review-boberg-xr9-s-update/


Obviously the gun is not perfect, but few semi-autos are. Even Glocks have problems now and then. But the XR9S works for me, and has been totally reliable, so I'm happy with mine, and I guess that's what counts, reliability, shoot-ability, accuracy, and ease of concealment.
No gun is going to work out for everyone, so find the one that works for you and as jocko says - shoot it like you stole it.

[O'Dell]

Well you can always buy another CW45. As to the evidence bag I always tell folks that if you use a firearm in a defensive manner spend no more on the pistol than you can afford to lose as if it is confiscated it will be quite a while before you see it again. PD's do not clean the weapons seized and if there is any blood/brains/contaminants they will be highly corrosive to the pistol. Glad you are having excellent service out of a high priced gun. The more you pay the better it should work. True most of the time but there are always exceptions.

I made the mistake of trading my CW45 for a PM45, which was later stolen. I have eleven 45's, my favorite caliber, and nearly all are in the over $1000 range, some way over, so I corrected the mistake and bought another CW45. It is my main belt carry for the very reason you stated, not to mention, it's totally reliable and easy to shoot well. I'd rather lose a $400 CW than a $1500 STI or classic irreplaceable SIG.

[Bawanna]

Good reason for me to seek a CW 45 too. Been wanting one. The heart break is leaving the Cbob at home, hard to handle that.

Also in most cases something to consider is that if your like me and you have a belt gun and an ankle gun they sometimes take both even though you only used one. They do funny stupid stuff.

[AIRret]

Good reason for me to seek a CW 45 too. Been wanting one. The heart break is leaving the Cbob at home, hard to handle that.

Also in most cases something to consider is that if your like me and you have a belt gun and an ankle gun they sometimes take both even though you only used one. They do funny stupid stuff.

I wish I could say; "that's unbelievable" but then I know about the real world.

[Bawanna]

We've had very few officer involved shootings but a couple of our detectives are on a regional task force that investigate them for several agencies.

Sometimes they take the duty belt too. Back up guns. One was a SWAT operation and they took the rifles, duty guns and back up guns. That was the one where they took my beloved MP5.

We had to issue new duty guns and equipment, didn't get anything back for a couple years and even longer for the MP5. I was some kind of upset I'll tell ya.

[AIRret]

Hey Tman, I have a boberg shorty and it is a fine gun. It definitely has the easiest slide to operate and is very reliable.
The gun does have a couple of negatives for me. First, because of the way it operates
reloads are not the best choice for practice. And as a left handed shooter (not by choice) it's my only gun that frequently hit me in the head with ejected brass. I get hit at least once a mag. and if I don't wear a hat I'm sure to bleed before the session is over.
For me those problems aren't insurmountable.
However the main reason I don't carry my boberg more is that the gun is not designed to lock open after the last round. All my other guns lock back and I always carry a spare mag. I'm worried that when the SHTF the gun won't lock back and it will take me a couple of moments to realize it's empty…..that could cost me my life.
You fight the way you train and all my other guns lock back so I've learned to key in on that fact. When I carry the Boberg it's usually as a back up so I'm not as concerned about
spare mags and mag. reloads.
I chase myself in circles when it comes to how much time I spend with carry guns vs range guns, or night stand guns, or long guns. Grrrrrrrr….I wish I could shoot everyday and be equally proficients with all of them.

[b4uqzme]

Thanks for the write up. The Boberg 45 looks real interesting and I may consider it someday. Right now I am good with carry pieces. And although I would hate to lose any of them, I'd rather not lose my life either. I guess I am the opposite of most of the above posters. Money is a factor in most of my firearm purchases but NOT a factor in choosing what to carry. I'll live to do without.

[AIRret]

Thanks for the write up. The Boberg 45 looks real interesting and I may consider it someday. Right now I am good with carry pieces. And although I would hate to lose any of them, I'd rather not lose my life either. I guess I am the opposite of most of the above posters. Money is a factor in most of my firearm purchases but NOT a factor in choosing what to carry. I'll live to do without.

+1

The only exception I would make to that was if I had a gun with a lot of sentimental value……but my Dad wasn't into handguns so I'll carry anything I have.

[O'Dell]

Also in most cases something to consider is that if your like me and you have a belt gun and an ankle gun they sometimes take both even though you only used one. They do funny stupid stuff.

Well, my ankle gun is an LCP so no worries there.

[WMac19]

+1

The only exception I would make to that was if I had a gun with a lot of sentimental value……but my Dad wasn't into handguns so I'll carry anything I have.

+2

So many here have sentimental favorites, along with plenty of options, and I can surely understand protecting them. For me, I don't buy anything unless I intend to carry it and for me to do that, I want small and light. Hence Kahr, and the allure for me wrt the PM9 and PM40.

That Boberg .45 is intriguing, I'll be reading up on it.

[AIRret]

+2

So many here have sentimental favorites, along with plenty of options, and I can surely understand protecting them. For me, I don't buy anything unless I intend to carry it and for me to do that, I want small and light. Hence Kahr, and the allure for me wrt the PM9 and PM40.

That Boberg .45 is intriguing, I'll be reading up on it.

What do you think about the fact that the gun doesn't lock open when empty?

[340pd]

My PM9 will fail to lock open if I grip it as I do my other autos with both thumbs resting along the slide. Relying on the slide locking back is something I have learned to ignore.

Handgun grip can change especially in a SHTF situation thus affecting the slide release lever on almost every semi auto I own except my 1911's where my thumb rides on the safety. I am trying to move my right thumb over more slightly on top of my left thumb but I am old, and according to my wife, am totally un-trainable.

[Bill K]

We've had very few officer involved shootings but a couple of our detectives are on a regional task force that investigate them for several agencies.

Sometimes they take the duty belt too. Back up guns. One was a SWAT operation and they took the rifles, duty guns and back up guns. That was the one where they took my beloved MP5.

We had to issue new duty guns and equipment, didn't get anything back for a couple years and even longer for the MP5. I was some kind of upset I'll tell ya.

In Connecticut, from my experience, 30 days after the case is settled the court orders a release of property to the police department holding your gun and any other property belonging to you. You get a letter from the department saying that you can pick up your property by contacting so and so in the department. This of course assumes you were the good guy. :Amflag2:

[berettabone]

" We have to keep it for evidence." Take a friggen picture of it, with the serial number, then give it back. I promise I won't sell it.

[AIRret]

My PM9 will fail to lock open if I grip it as I do my other autos with both thumbs resting along the slide. Relying on the slide locking back is something I have learned to ignore.

Handgun grip can change especially in a SHTF situation thus affecting the slide release lever on almost every semi auto I own except my 1911's where my thumb rides on the safety. I am trying to move my right thumb over more slightly on top of my left thumb but I am old, and according to my wife, am totally un-trainable.

I shoot left handed these days so I'm not in contact with the slide lock/release
and even when I shot right handed I never had that issue. I have plenty of other issues but that's not one of them…ha ha.

[WMac19]

What do you think about the fact that the gun doesn't lock open when empty?

A drawback, no doubt. And it's a bit of a double edged sword for me. My first duty gun and my off-duty carry for 22 years were revolvers. So on the one hand I'm used to no indication of a gun being empty.

But on the other, I know guys involved in shootings with their revolvers and some reported that they kept pulling the trigger before their brain clued in it was empty.

In 1991, one of them was a decorated Sergeant, combat tested as this was his third or fourth shooting. Prior to coming to my command (49 pct) to be the Training Sgt, he did years in the 41 pct, when "Fort Apache" was in all it's worst glory.

He said that he may have pulled the trigger 4 or 5 times beyond the final round before it registered.

Heat of the moment plays tricks on the mind.

[AIRret]

Great perspective WMac19, and lots to think about.