CW9 is it me or the gun

[redman1183]

Finally got out to the range just to qualify for ccw with my new CW9 and loved it. Easy to shoot, soft recoil, fits nicely. We were shooting at 15yds and I was shooting low and left by about 4-6 inches. I usually shoot an XD .45 and I make a big ragged hole in the x ring at that range, so I am not used to being this much off.
I found that if I want to hit center I have to cover my POA with the barrel instead of placing my target on top of my sight pic. Is this discrepancy my and the long DAO trigger or are my guns sights off?
I hope it is me because as you all know the CWs are only windage adjustable with no elevation adjustments available. I know I could just change my sights for something better but as this will be my CCW gun my county, PLACER in CA, states that there are NO modifications allowed to a carry gun.
In addition, I have only put 50 rounds through my baby and I know it still has to be broken in but I am not used to being that off with a gun. Hopefully, more practice during break in will help.:Amflag2:

[happypuppy]

I has a similar situation with my cm 9. It was about the same as yours. I found that going from Ball to 124 +p helped as did using the middle pad if my trigger finger.

I think the long pull I was pulling the barrel down and left.


Just ' bout the action Boss...

[muggsy]

Kahr pistols have combat sights. The dot is supposed to cover the intended point of impact. If you are a bullseye shooter it can be difficult to make the switch since you are used to a 6 o'clock hold. The sights aren't intended to give you bullseye accuracy, but they are fast to acquire and will provide center mass impact. If your groups are relatively tight it's not a trigger control problem. You are just expecting more than the gun can deliver. I an keep almost all of my shots inside of a three inch circle at 21 feet with my CM9. Jocko can only keep most of his shots within a 21' circle at 3 inches, but he's famous for his one shot groups. :)

[RevRay]

Muggsy, you're brutal!

[trooplewis]

It's the Heinie sights, mine does the same, as does my Taurus P145 with Heinie sights.
If I hold 3" right and 3" high at 25 ft, I tear out the bull. Lots of threads about this concern, many will say that it is the shooter, not the gun. But as soon as I switch to my guns that don't have Heinie sights, the problem disappears.

Both my guns with Heinie sights are semi-auto, and my other guns are revolvers, so it could be that the "shooting left" part is how I handle the trigger pull on the semi-autos. But the "shooting low" part is definitely the sights.

Go to the heaviest bullet and the slowest speed that you can buy and it will help bring the POI up. Faster bullets will hit lower.

[happypuppy]

Go to the heaviest bullet and the slowest speed that you can buy and it will help bring the POI up. Faster bullets will hit lower.

I find it just the opposite. The faster more potent round gets to the target quicker with more muzzle flip raising POI

The heavier bullet round produces more recoil thus raising point of impact

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_bullet_velocity_trajectory.htm



"It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived." -G.S. Patton

[pbagley]

I'm with HappyPuppy on this one. Lighter faster bullets get out of the barrel faster, and therefore strike the target lower in relation to the point of aim. Heavier and slower bullets stay in the barrel longer, the mussel rises under recoil just slightly more before the bullet exits, and the round hits higher. That is the behavior with my CM9 anyway, and for me 115gr. with enough power to cycle the action work with a 6 o'clock hold. 124 gr. bullets hit at the top of the repair center, about 6-8" above the point of aim.

[trooplewis]

No, you are correct and Happy Puppy is incorrect if you read his post. I believe his link is incorrect at well, at least at a range of 25 feet.

My experience has been as pbagley describes; slower bullets stay in the barrel a fraction of a second longer, and thus when they exit the barrel has lifted (due to recoil) a bit more than faster bullets. I have 4 fixed-sight revolvers and every one of them shoots lower with fast bullets and higher with slower bullets, at a target 25 feet away. My two semi-auto pistols do that as well.

This is a fairly complicated issue that is not easily answered, There is a good discussion of it here

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451415

Interestingly enough is that this affects snub-nosed revolvers so much.
Most .38 special fixed-sight snubbies are "zered" at 21 feet with 130gr factory loads, 125gr loads shoot low and 158gr loads shoot high. I'm sure some CCW folks will weigh in on this one...

[Pointblank]

Most self defense shootings happen pretty close and involve point shooting without the sights I believe. So this is mainly a range issue.

[muggsy]

Muggsy, you're brutal!

Brutally honest. Jocko, can take it. He has broad shoulders. :)

[Megawatt]

...I usually shoot an XD .45 and I make a big ragged hole in the x ring at that range...

If your POI is 4-6" off your POA, then it is your shooting of the CW9 that is causing this discrepancy. You said you usually shoot a XD45 and that gun has a different trigger feel and release than a Kahr CW9. Not saying one trigger is better than the other, they are just different.



...In addition, I have only put 50 rounds through my baby and I know it still has to be broken in...

I bet after a few more rounds you will learn the CW9 trigger and it too will be making ragged holes in your target. You are just not use to the CW9 trigger yet.

[Falcon3]

Are u saying the front sight dot should hide the point i am trying to hit? I dont recall hearing that on Kahrs and i also have never shot them that way. I guess i need to go to the range soon.

[CJB]

More than likely, its you.

I have been shooting sa/da pistols since the S&W m39 days, and also many 1911's and Browning HP's. That Kahr trigger takes a bit of relearning..... new muscle memory.

[marshal kane]

Most self defense shootings happen pretty close and involve point shooting without the sights I believe. So this is mainly a range issue.
I agree. Defensive shooting is a whole new ballgame. Don't even think "X ring" when practicing defensive shooting.