Best ammo for PM9/CM9 for break in period?

[C0untZer0]

I know Jocko recommends FMJ for the break in period. I have seen in a few posts where people felt that NATO ball was best for the break in period for the PM9/CM9.


I'm just wondering what people thought about that, and if there were any cartridges to stay away from during the break in period.




Thanks

[timmy]

I used 50 rounds of each all 115grn fmj to break my cm9 in Tula,fiocchi,privi, and federal champion not one malfunction i did follow the lube guide and racked the slide a few hunded times and dry fire practiced before shooting the "break in rounds"

[smokersteve]

It really doesn't matter what type of ammo. I have used wwb, federal, BrassMAXX, tula steel - all in 115 grain

[jocko]

the nato ballis more powerful and it will work the action nicer than some of the over the country factory ammo, so if u can find it without breaking the bank, buy it and shoot it like u stole it. My point of shooing american made facxtory fmj is that is should be the lowest in prie to shoot and ur only actualy soothing te gun out with break in rounds. sometimes what can happe with the initial break in round sis that kahrs are so fokking tight, that some of the over the country ammo fmj is kinda short o power and u might get occassional failure to lock open or maybe evne failure to eject, but it does seem that after 200 rounds or so, the gun just works so mucy nicer than at round #1. So IMO don't be to critical about reliability until you get through the break in rounds. then IMO u should find a good defense round of ur choosing which is gonna be in the +P range more than likely and test it out. Thse rounds will work an action on a kahr really nice tha tis for sre, but IMO kinda expensive for just range break in fodder. YMMV.

In reading timmy's messaqge, he mkentions some ammo tha =is not highly recomended by soe on this forum, but his gun seems to do OK with any of those he mentioned, so for me that ius a real plus plus for his particular kahr. Some though will act up and we tend to blame the gun when ndeed it could be the ammo. Steel cased ammo for some works OK, MY K9 hates steel cased ammo, soI just swtay away from it. Alot of this ammo is foreign made and their quality contril is not like ours, and then we blame the gun cause it won't shoot some sh!t ammo. I feel if u stay with American made ammo ur gonna get darn good stuff. My K9 hated tula ammo by the way.

[berettabone]

I never shoot the steel crap...............during my breakin, I had a couple fte's with Blazer.............none with Fiocchi, seemed a bit stouter.

[jocko]

I was at the kahr booth yesterday at the NRA convention and I was there about 30 minutes, watching and listening. I one kahr person, was showing a fella a polymer series and the guys wife was standing there besides him and the kahr guy said, These are tight guns to hand rack so beforeu buy here one, let her prove she can do it.

I was later over at the North American arms booth where they show the mini revolvers but they now own one of the better makesof the little 32 and 380 and for the live of me I can't remember the name, but the sales guy I was talking to, told a lady that that 380 is definitely not a gun for a woman as they are very hard to hand rac k ad tat he has a hard time even, due to size and recoil strength. He was honest. I seen this alot yestyerday at the booths what had the small ass 380's and watched wome look at them and say I like that but thern they could not make it work. Glocks G42 gad alot of lookers that is for sure and it was very easy to hand rack to, but it is as big as my PMJ9. I said to the glcoki man, , "u should have made it first in the 9mm" he winked and said patience my man, patience.

[Bawanna]

Yup, that's marketing genius coming out with the 380 first. They wouldn't sell any if they did the 9 first. Now everyone with a 380 will want another in 9.

Did the same thing with the Desert Eagle, ironically I saw that at the NRA show the year they came out in 357. The booth was a little slow and the guy took that thing completely apart to show me all the pieces.

Later they came out in 44 mag which is more in line with what the original plan was, after every one with a 357 bought a 44, they then offered a kit to swap, then of course the 50AE and the saga continues. Purely brilliant marketing.

I see you waited till JohnH wasn't in the booth on Sunday. Were you afraid?

[jocko]

I was in there saturday, and I forgot to look at all the name badges. If he was there I did not know it. I do think Mr Moon was there though. They had a very ice display.

Glock Gunny area was lined up 300 deep for photo opt with Gunny. I set up a booth nex to him and signed Harley Shirts for
$10 a crack. They thought ol jocko was wilie G's brother. Just sayin

Had I see John H. I would have told him I was Bawanna brother as that he could n't make it...

[garyb]

I know Jocko recommends FMJ for the break in period. I have seen in a few posts where people felt that NATO ball was best for the break in period for the PM9/CM9.


I'm just wondering what people thought about that, and if there were any cartridges to stay away from during the break in period.




Thanks


I used Win white box ammo, 50 rds at a session for several sessions. While I sat around at home, I also hand worked the slide many, many, many times. Cleaned and lubed in between to remove anything. I've had zero problems, but that was with my PM40.

[jocko]

that is my 95% shooting ammo. good ol WWB from wal mart in 100 pak. best prices around for me, as I et 10% off due to my wife retiring from there this past month, (for life)

[C0untZer0]

Blazzer Brass is some of the softest shooting ammo. The muzzle velocity of the 115gr FMJ is around 1145 fps at 323 ft-lbs of energy. Their 124gr loading has a muzzle velocity of 1090 fps at 327 ft-lbs of energy.


The Winchester Ranger NATO round is 124gr with a muzzle velocity of 1185 fps at 387 ft-lbs of energy.


It sounds like the NATO ammunition is the way to go for the first few hundred rounds.

[gmcjetpilot]

NATO AMMO? To say NATO is meaningless, especially in context of breaking in the Kahr or any gun. 9mm can be SAAMI and C.P.I. standards... Under STANAG 4090, 9mm is one of the standard cartridge for NATO forces as well as many non-NATO countries. There are specific specs for NATO rounds, but none of them helps make it better for break in. One thing that makes NATO 9mm is crimping the primer pocket. For reasons of reloading, I don't like NATO rounds. Crimped primer pockets makes getting the old primer out more difficult and almost impossible to insert new primers, without reaming the pocket. There are all kinds of flavors of ammo. NATO is indicated by a circle with X head stamp on the case, and it is nothing special.


9mm can go under names Luger, 9x19 or Parabellum, all the same. You have the choice of bullet weight 90Gr, 115Gr, 124Grn, 135Gr typically. Their is also bullet style, (RN) Round Nose (or ball) and HP hollow point typically. It does not matter. I would only use brass case ammo, never steel. Last is +P or plus pressure may be indicated. I would not use these for beak-in for cost reasons, but you could shoot it for breaking in.


To be clear ANY 9mm ammo is fine for break in, but obviously +P is expensive ammo is not needed or desirable. I say go with low cost 115gr round nose or ball, of course copper plated or jacketed.

[CJB]

My PM9-J feeds just about everything I've ever managed to get into the mag.

WWB 115g mostly, but have shot some Federal, some Speer Lawman, some Corbon... it all pretty much just "works". I think I had some coupla failures with range reloads... big deal.

[C0untZer0]

I should have said M882 ball.

I guess there is a NATO spec for 147gr and 115gr, but most commonly NATO 9mm means 124gr round nose FMJ. There are also case thickness specifications - .032" case wall thickness.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ar15.com%2Fcontent%2FwebPDF% 2FTM43-0001-27.pdf&ei=N3lmU4moHcONygHw74HIAw&usg=AFQjCNEo3qc4tPGzp1Ck_XHCCvwAPfEwYA&sig2=BRirO4rUXgOHWdBJgDAMYw&bvm=bv.65788261,d.aWc

But anyway, I'm referring generally to 124gr FMJ with muzzle velocity in the 1225-1250 fps range.


The reason I think this would be good is that NATO is generally not as hot as +P. I am thinking it brings a little extra energy to exercise a stiff recoil sping that is brand new and cuts down on failure to go totally into battery or FTFs, etc...


The SAAMI pressure limit for the 9×19mm Parabellum is 35,001 psi
The SAAMI pressure limit for the 9×19 mm Parabellum +P is 38,500 psi
The service pressure Pmax of the 9 mm NATO is rated at is 36,500 psi


But looking at some manufacturer's specs, a few of them have 124gr ammo with given velocities of around 1225 that they rate as +P instead of NATO, and Winchester's Ranger 124gr "NATO" shows velocities of 1185 fps

[gmcjetpilot]

I should have said M882 ball.

I guess there is a NATO spec for 147gr and 115gr, but most commonly NATO 9mm means 124gr round nose FMJ. There are also case thickness specifications - .032" case wall thickness.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ar15.com%2Fcontent%2FwebPDF% 2FTM43-0001-27.pdf&ei=N3lmU4moHcONygHw74HIAw&usg=AFQjCNEo3qc4tPGzp1Ck_XHCCvwAPfEwYA&sig2=BRirO4rUXgOHWdBJgDAMYw&bvm=bv.65788261,d.aWc

But anyway, I'm referring generally to 124gr FMJ with muzzle velocity in the 1225-1250 fps range.


The reason I think this would be good is that NATO is generally not as hot as +P. I am thinking it brings a little extra energy to exercise a stiff recoil sping that is brand new and cuts down on failure to go totally into battery or FTFs, etc...


The SAAMI pressure limit for the 9×19mm Parabellum is 35,001 psi
The SAAMI pressure limit for the 9×19 mm Parabellum +P is 38,500 psi
The service pressure Pmax of the 9 mm NATO is rated at is 36,500 psi


But looking at some manufacturer's specs, a few of them have 124gr ammo with given velocities of around 1225 that they rate as +P instead of NATO, and Winchester's Ranger 124gr "NATO" shows velocities of 1185 fpsGood info, most of that is Wiki but good info. However let me point out muzzle velocity is way slower out if a Kahr short barrel than what the ammo box says. The factory velocity are measure out of 6" or longer barrel. Temperature effects bullet velocity as well. I have used my Chronograph and measured the speed of ammo and it is consistently slower than advertised. Longer barrel pistols match the spec velocity more closely. Some brands always meet or exceed their advertised velocity, other brands always disappoint....


Long and short of it, no pun intended, most high quality name brand ammo that is NOT NATO is as good or better (in quality and reliability) than Ammo labeled with NATO in my opinion. My point is you don't have to seek out NATO ammo, and I am not sure how you can even go about buying NATO ammo. I am almost sure manufacture who make NATO and commercial ammo, use the same production line to produce the ammo.


I reload and have vintage brass from some pretty obscure places and manufactures from Egypt and Eastern bloc... and not all brass is the same to be sure. However Remington (R-P), Winchester (WIN, WCC), Speer/CCI/Blazer and PMC (Precision Made Cartridge), Aguila (Aguila)
Fiocchi (Fiocchi) all are fine.... I have measure the brass inside and out, and they are all similar. Alloy clearly varies based on how they oxidize (corrode), how nice they shine up and the ease of resizing... some ammo brass alloys are harder than others.


NATO Spec is a standard not a superior Ammo over non NATO ammo, at least in 9mm..... Again unique to NATO (there may be other unique things) is the dang crimped primer.... a pain for reloading.

[muggsy]

that is my 95% shooting ammo. good ol WWB from wal mart in 100 pak. best prices around for me, as I et 10% off due to my wife retiring from there this past month, (for life)

Now I understand why your wife continues to stay with you, Jocko. She's used to Walmartians. :)

[C0untZer0]

Well I fired 100 rounds of "NATO" through it today. I shot 50 rounds of 124gr Winchester Ranger T NATO - RA9124N. Winchester lists the muzzle velocity at 1185 fps. And I shot 50 rounds of the Georgia Arms 124gr NATO, stated muzzle velocity of 1150 fps.

The only problem I had was that the slide didn't lock back on round 94. Not a huge deal for me, I mean my Rohrbaugh doesn't lock back at all. But anyway I am going to chalk that up to firing the gun with a broken follower.

I didn't have any failure to feed, FTE or failure to fire, failure to return to battery or anything - just one instance when the slide didn't lock back on an empty mag.


Time to clean it...