Trigger Bar wear into frame CM9

[PX15]

Frame wear:

My apologies if this subject has been brought up before but I just wanted to give heads up to those folks who own CM9's.

I bought 2 CM9's last year and love em'.

Neither has over a hundred rounds fired through them.

I cleaned one last week and the trigger transfer bar had worn a hole almost completely thru the side of the plastic frame, but still appeared to function properly,just above the trigger spring.

I finished cleaning it and took it out to my berm and it fired 2 rounds than quit.

I took it apart again and found the transfer bar had worn completely through with the firing of the last 2 rounds and had morphed from a very fine 9MM, easily concealable pistol to a poor, but easily concealable, hammer.

I contacted Kahr and got an ra and have returned the defective CM9 (at my expense).

I dissembled the other CM9 I bought at the same time and has the same amount of rounds fired, and it had absolutely NO wear in that area.

Just a heads up to you other owners of CM9's..

You might want to check yours.

J.

[dohcacr]

Can you post a picture of the frame wear your talking about?

[jocko]

that gun was defecxtie from the day it was made, just took this amount of time for it to do what it did. That is a virtual first that I have ever read on this forum or anywhere.

Take a photo of this and send it to kahr, attn Jay insist on a pre paid pickup on this gun. u should not have to pay to send it bak,m that willbe very costly, and IMO they are gonna have to replace the lower frame anyways. A good phgoto will get u a pre paid pickup on the gun I have no doubt.

A photo sure wold be ice to see though....

a new lower frame will entice new serial umberts which will then require it to be sent to a FFL dealers also. iT CANNOT BE SENT BACK TO YOU.

[RogerP9fan]

Frame wear:

My apologies if this subject has been brought up before but I just wanted to give heads up to those folks who own CM9's.

I bought 2 CM9's last year and love em'.

Neither has over a hundred rounds fired through them.

I cleaned one last week and the trigger transfer bar had worn a hole almost completely thru the side of the plastic frame, but still appeared to function properly,just above the trigger spring.

I finished cleaning it and took it out to my berm and it fired 2 rounds than quit.

I took it apart again and found the transfer bar had worn completely through with the firing of the last 2 rounds and had morphed from a very fine 9MM, easily concealable pistol to a poor, but easily concealable, hammer.

I contacted Kahr and got an ra and have returned the defective CM9 (at my expense).

I dissembled the other CM9 I bought at the same time and has the same amount of rounds fired, and it had absolutely NO wear in that area.

Just a heads up to you other owners of CM9's..

You might want to check yours.

J.
I'll also be waiting for you to post pics here of the problem.

[PX15]

Can you post a picture of the frame wear your talking about?


doh:

Sorry, my images are on photobucket, but they have changed the way you access them and I don't have a clue as to how it works now. (I'm 71)..

If you would care to email me (my email address is available on my profile here I think) I believe I can attach the photos from my computer library and send them back to you and you are more than welcome to put them here for me.

Sorry.

Jesse

[pbagley]

You could try http://www.servimg.com/ for photo hosting. It is free and easy. Just go to the upload box, browse to your image, and click upload. When the file is uploaded you can paste the BBcode for the image into the body of your message and hit preview. Good luck.

[PX15]

You could try http://www.servimg.com/ for photo hosting. It is free and easy. Just go to the upload box, browse to your image, and click upload. When the file is uploaded you can paste the BBcode for the image into the body of your message and hit preview. Good luck.

pg:

dohcacr emailed me a few minutes ago and I attached three photos of the defective CM9 frame to him. Hopefully he will share them here shortly.

In the meantime I'll give your suggestion a try..

Thanks!

Jesse

[dohcacr]

pg:

dohcacr emailed me a few minutes ago and I attached three photos of the defective CM9 frame to him. Hopefully he will share them here shortly.

In the meantime I'll give your suggestion a try..

Thanks!

Jesse

Don't know who emailed you, but it was not me. If you want to send the pics to me I'll post them for you.

[PX15]

[QUOTE=dohcacr;303163]Don't know who emailed you, but it was not me. If you want to send the pics to me I'll post them for you.



Ok,

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I tried to send you 3 photos just a second ago.

Jesse

[dohcacr]

These are large pics, so rather than resizing and loosing detail, I'm posting just the links.

https://copy.com/w4bQ1uEkJzY2
https://copy.com/zJy8a7bxjJve
https://copy.com/w4bQ1uEkJzY2

[PX15]

These are large pics, so rather than resizing and loosing detail, I'm posting just the links.

https://copy.com/w4bQ1uEkJzY2
https://copy.com/zJy8a7bxjJve
https://copy.com/w4bQ1uEkJzY2

Thanks for posting these photos for me.

I took these photos when I discovered the problem, but AFTER I reassembled the CM9 and fired it, it got worse, and quit functioning period after 2 rounds.

At this point I got an RA and sent it back to the factory at my expense.

I just tracked the progress via UPS and my CM9 won't get to the factory until Wednesday (5/21)..

I'll let you know what happens..

I just worry that there is someone out there carrying the CM9 for personal protection, that came off the line just before mine, or maybe after, who's pistol MIGHT have the same defect.

That person might well be only one or two rounds from a catastrophic failure at the worst time..

Then again perhaps this factory defect is only limited to my gun, but that seem's unlikely.

J.

[Cubby]

If they made me pay for shipping, I would scrap the gun! That's just not right, unless they will reimburse you after looking at it?

[hardluk1]

You payed to send it back?? Wrong , new pistol they will send a shipping label to use.

[Rubb]

Weird, I don't see how that would even be possible on mine?

[gb6491]

Frame wear:

My apologies if this subject has been brought up before but I just wanted to give heads up to those folks who own CM9's.

I bought 2 CM9's last year and love em'.

Neither has over a hundred rounds fired through them.

I cleaned one last week and the trigger transfer bar had worn a hole almost completely thru the side of the plastic frame, but still appeared to function properly,just above the trigger spring.

I finished cleaning it and took it out to my berm and it fired 2 rounds than quit.

I took it apart again and found the transfer bar had worn completely through with the firing of the last 2 rounds and had morphed from a very fine 9MM, easily concealable pistol to a poor, but easily concealable, hammer.

I contacted Kahr and got an ra and have returned the defective CM9 (at my expense).

I dissembled the other CM9 I bought at the same time and has the same amount of rounds fired, and it had absolutely NO wear in that area.

Just a heads up to you other owners of CM9's..

You might want to check yours.

J.
PX15, Welcome to the forums.

To be clear in my mind, is this the hole (red arrow) you are talking about?
http://i60.tinypic.com/10gi721.jpg

If it is, (and given that it stinks regardless of the source) I'm more inclined to think that this was caused by the trigger rather than the trigger bar. (By your photos, the trigger bar looks correct where it engages the trigger. If this is so, the trigger bar would be setting below the top of the trigger).

I'm also suspicious of how the materiel is deformed (looks pushed back from the edge and up to me) in that area. That might possibly have been done during assembly.

If the damage in this area is the reason that the pistol ceased to operate, then I would think trimming that material away would fix the issue. This is just a guess on my part, but I'm basing it on how my CW9 is constructed in that area. If you'll look at the photo below, you'll see that there is no material over the trigger on my CW9 in that area (I think you can also see what I mentioned about the trigger bar sitting below the top of the trigger).
http://i58.tinypic.com/35jmck6.jpg
Again, I'm assuming that's the area you are talking about and the rest is all supposition on my part (most probably, I'm talking out my rear end:eek:).

Here's hoping they turn it around for you quickly.

Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

I frankly couldn't see what was being talked about based on the pictures. I had just focused in on that same spot Greg mentioned when I saw his post which I eagerly opened seeking enlightenment.

If indeed that is the trouble spot it looks like extra material (slag only tupperware) left behind and perhaps dragging or hindering the operation of the trigger bar.

So material where there really shouldn't be any?

The picture is good, I just can't pinpoint the issue for certain but I suspect Greg is onto something.

[jocko]

looks like left over polymer not properly trimmed away. I was under the impression this hle wa sout side the frame of the gun to, kwhere indeed the photo shows it is all internal. I will go with gregg, that if it was giving issues thenindeedit needed to go back or othewise I would have paid no attention to it. Ain't broke don't fix it. A real shame that he did not insist on kahr picking up the shipping though.

[PX15]

PX15, Welcome to the forums.
To be clear in my mind, is this the hole (red arrow) you are talking about?
http://i60.tinypic.com/10gi721.jpg
Greg

Greg:

Yes the red arrow points to the worn area in my CM9.

Please let me say that up until I had a brief conversation with the the Kahr Customer Service Supervisor (Jay), I was pretty much a happy Kahr customer.

Not so much anymore.

I called Jay (someone here suggested it) to speak to him about the defect in my CM9 as well as to ask to have me shipping expenses (only $15.00) refunded, as I couldn't understand why a customer had to pay for return shipping on a firearm with a factory defect..

I was in a good mood when I described the worn area and asked that when the CM9 is delivered by UPS (scheduled for Wednesday) would he please take a look at it and once he sees the problem is definitely a factory defect would he be kind enough to refund my shipping expenses.

Thinking I'd come out ahead on the deal I suggested that he could EITHER refund the $15.00 I paid UPS, or he could just substitute another magazine in the box when the pistol was shipped back.

I am fully aware that a new magazine, at retail, is probably around $30.00, but I'm guessing Kahr pays less than $15.00 for them, so in effect I would be getting an extra magazine for $15.00, making me a happy camper, and it wouldn't cost Kahr anything and be good for customer relations in the bargain.

Jay told me that he "is not a gunsmith" (in so many words), and when the gunsmith examines my broken CM9 he will call me before any work is done, but repairs will "probably" be fixed under warranty.

I'm a senior citizen, 71 years old, and perhaps I have a lower tolerance for "attitude" than most, but I'm of the opinion that folks who work in "Customer Service" as a career should ratchet down attitude and concentrate on keeping customers happy if possible.

I have been a firearms owner (and NRA member) for decades and decades.

I have been carrying concealed (legally) since the summer of 1968.

I have had (in years past) dealings with Smith and Wesson Customer Service (on a new Walther PPS, which are imported and warranty service is provided by S&W) and it was excellent. S&W covered shipping expenses both ways.

More recently my Springfield XDs was recalled and shipping was paid both ways and when the XDs was returned there was free mag in the box for my inconvenience.

This Kahr CM9 problem?

This factory defect was only discovered by accident.

I dissembled the CM9 for routine maintenance and I found the area of wear.

I immediately took photos (those posted here) and emailed them to Kahr CS with the questions "is this just cosmetic, or will it affect the functioning of the pistol" and "is it SAFE to shoot now"?

Then I dissembled my 2nd CM9 to see if it has the same defect, (it's of the same age and rounds fired as the first) but it is perfect.. No wear whatsoever.

In 2 days I never heard back from Kahr regarding my photos and questions, so I reassembled the CM9 and took it out back test fire it.

If fired TWO times then "broke"..

It will not shoot now, period.

I had been carrying that pistol all winter as my cc choice, thinking I was well armed..

I was not.

Two rounds fired and I've have been sol.

Now, Kahr can either fix or replace my factory defect CM9, and reimburse my shipping expenses or not.

It's up to them.

If they chose not to do either I will request they return my broken CM9 (COD, no problem).

Then we'll go from there.

Thank you,

Jesse W. Pomeroy

[dohcacr]

In all situations that I've seen posted about Kahr customer service, I've yet to read one where the customer felt he/she was treated unfairly. I wouldn't expect anything different in your situation.

Instead of dwelling on your conversation with Jay, do something positive to perk up your day. Go out and vote!:amflag:

[SGT5711]

Jesse,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I was surprised to hear you say anything negative about Jay. From my personal experience, and by all accounts on this forum, Jay is highly respected as a helpful problem solver.

I am not exactly sure what the issue with your CM9 is, but I would like to make one suggestion. That would be to read the owner's manual which came with your CM9's. In your first post you stated neither CM9 had been fired more than 100 rounds. Then in your last post, you state you had been carrying the now non-working CM9 all winter as your ccw. Kahr clearly states in all of their manuals that their firearms require a 200 round break-in period before they should be considered reliable.

Chris

[PX15]

Jesse,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I was surprised to hear you say anything negative about Jay. From my personal experience, and by all accounts on this forum, Jay is highly respected as a helpful problem solver.

I am not exactly sure what the issue with your CM9 is, but I would like to make one suggestion. That would be to read the owner's manual which came with your CM9's. In your first post you stated neither CM9 had been fired more than 100 rounds. Then in your last post, you state you had been carrying the now non-working CM9 all winter as your ccw. Kahr clearly states in all of their manuals that their firearms require a 200 round break-in period before they should be considered reliable.

Chris

Hi Chris.

I was surprised at the attitude I felt I got from Jay myself, but it is what it is..

Thank you for the suggestion about reading the owners manual, but I am fully aware that Kahr states their pistols require a 200 round break in period before it is to be considered "reliable".

I'm just guessing about the number of rounds I had fired, but it was no more than 100.

My personal experience has been that IF a quality pistol, not just a Kahr, is reliable after a couple of boxes have been fired thru it, and since neither of my CM9's had so much as one malfunction I felt perfectly confident both were reliable after firing what I personally considered to be a sufficient number of rounds.

Reliability, after the required 200 rounds, or 2000 rounds is not the issue I'm concerned about.

My concern is for abnormal wear that caused a complete failure to fire.

You should be able to fire thousands of rounds through your pistol without ever seeing the internal damage I found in my CM9.

I realize that I'm pretty much a visitor to this forum, and the interaction I had with Jay was contrary to the norm, but all I can say is I started out the conversation in a good mood and when I hung up from speaking to the gentleman I was pissed off.

I was never upset that the pistol had a defect, I was questioning why a customer had to pay return shipping on a Kahr firearm under warranty experiencing a catastrophic failure to fire, directly related to a factory defect.

When the defective CM9 is delivered tomorrow the gunsmith should immediately see the problem and immediately know it was a defect from the factory.

That should lead to a repair under warranty with a subsequent return to me pre-paid via UPS or FEDEX.

I feel my initial shipping expenses SHOULD be reimbursed, but if they chose not to do that, that's up to them.

Thank you for sharing that the experiences of the vast majority of forum members have been treated well by Jay.

I was not.

Or, I felt I was not.

I'm sure Jay can sleep well at night with no concern for my opinion on how our conversation went and my personal opinion on how he handled MY particular phone call.

I'm sure Kahr realizes that you cannot satisfy 100% of the people 100% of the time.

What I hate about this situation is that I am well pleased with my two Kahr CM9's and I expected a different response from Customer Service than I received.

I'm still a big Kahr pistol fan, unusual wear, causing a complete failure to fire, on one of my CM9's not withstanding.

I'm just not a big fan of Kahr's Customer Service policy regarding sending defective Kahrs back for warranty repair., nor the attitude I got from the supervisor of their Customer Service Department.

Thank you for taking the time to give your perspective on this situation.

Best Wishes,

Jesse