Question that came up

[knkali]

After reading another thread(chipotle one) about guys walking around with black rifles(where legal), my question is would you be more concerned about a guy that legally walks into a store or restaurant with a black rifle than a guy that legally open carries a side arm? If so why? IOW would you scrutinize and have more concern over your safety with the BR guy vs the pistol guy? It seems from some of the responses in that Chipotle thread that some guys would be more concerned about the BR carrying guy.


Thoughts?

[CJB]

We all know the world has gone PC insane.....

[knkali]

put PC aside CJB. Would you give the guy with the BR a second thought over the pistol guy? If so why?

[Ikeo74]

I don't favor open carry with a pistol and even less with an AK or AR rifle. It draws too much attention to the carrier. I think everyone close by would be far more worried that the rifle carrier may be up to no good than a pistol carrier. Just because it's legal is no sign it's a good idea. yes, customers are going to be worried when approached by a open rifle carrier and I think asking the rifle carriers to leave was not out of line. We have concealed carry for a reason. That reason is to not alarm everyone that you pass by.

[CJB]

Well you're asking the wrong man.

I've worked at gun ranges, seen all sorts of lunacy. I'd not give either a 2nd glance....well.... maybe a 2nd glance if their hardware was something to comment on - ie - I met a PBSO deputy in Dunkin Donut, and struck up a conversation about the FNX45-TAC he had strapped to this thigh. He loved it. FDE color too, matched his uniform.

I dunno.... I can see how a BIG gun would scare folks more than a little gun.

[jeepster09]

I would be concerned about guy with black rifle....what kind of moron would do that....he is obviously not playing with full deck to walk around with it.:001_huh:

[tv_racin_fan]

I wonder if the people who dont condone open carry understand that they probably have concealed carry because someone protested to get that ability. That these guys are protesting that they dont have the legal ability to open carry a handgun but do have the legal ability to open carry a long gun.

Sometimes I wish that those people who protested and garnered the right to conceal carry firearms hadn't dont so at all. Seems things would just be so much better if we went back to not having the right to carry at all again.

[Bawanna]

To attempt to answer the specific question I would not take my eyes off either the BR carrier or an open carrier. The BR carrier has already proven to me that he's a whack job that demands full attention.

I would watch an open carry belt gun carrier too very closely.

I look for bulges, tell tale mannerisms, guys that adjust their belt or walk swinging only one hand to stabilize a holster gun or a gun in a coat pocket.

Majority are probably just like me and mean no harm, just want to be prepared and be a sheep dog. But if they aren't I don't want any surprises. I don't want to play quick draw.

[CJB]

Why are open carry advocates "fools", "morons" and "whack jobs" (among other things).

The libertarian in me says carry what you want, where you want.

The argument "bad guys shoot you first" is lacking in any credibility.... show me the evidence.

I just cannot see a real problem - other than some folks might not like it.

First thing I do, is toss out the opinion of anyone ever associated with law enforcement - sorry guys, I love yas, but you've been indoctrinated worse than the hairy leggeg tree hugging lesbian co-eds at Columbia.

[knkali]

please lets not make this an open vs ccw thread, I am just wondering if you pay more mind to the BR guy. So far, it seems you would.

[b4uqzme]

Why are open carry advocates "fools", "morons" and "whack jobs" (among other things).

The libertarian in me says carry what you want, where you want.

The argument "bad guys shoot you first" is lacking in any credibility.... show me the evidence.

I just cannot see a real problem - other than some folks might not like it.

First thing I do, is toss out the opinion of anyone ever associated with law enforcement - sorry guys, I love yas, but you've been indoctrinated worse than the hairy leggeg tree hugging lesbian co-eds at Columbia.

I think it comes down to freedom and respect.

People are free to disagree with me yet I still respect their feelings. Someone open carrying a black rifle is telling me they lack that respect so they would be on my radar.

I have the freedom to carry that rifle into Chipotle too but I choose not to out of respect. Social harmony is part of what is lacking in this country. We tend to dig in on one side or another and lose track of what is respectful. I'm not talking about being PC. I mean genuinely caring for your fellow man regardless of his politics.

I said in another thread that I lose respect for someone once I learn they are a liberal and I meant it. But that doesn't mean I will stop treating them respectfully.


JMHO

[muggsy]

There was a time in this country when most men walked around with a rifle or shotgun on their shoulder and no one gave them a second look. There was a time in this country when you could take a shotgun to school and go hunting at the close of the school day and no one gave it a second thought. You don't gain public acceptance by hiding in the shadows. You have a much more civil society when everyone is armed. Just my humble opinion.

[knkali]

I think it comes down to freedom and respect.

People are free to disagree with me yet I still respect their feelings. Someone open carrying a black rifle is telling me they lack that respect so they would be on my radar.

I have the freedom to carry that rifle into Chipotle too but I choose not to out of respect. Social harmony is part of what is lacking in this country. We tend to dig in on one side or another and lose track of what is respectful. I'm not talking about being PC. I mean genuinely caring for your fellow man regardless of his politics.

I said in another thread that I lose respect for someone once I learn they are a liberal and I meant it. But that doesn't mean I will stop treating them respectfully.


JMHO


NICE! I was gonna say something but this trumped it.

[knkali]

There was a time in this country when most men walked around with a rifle or shotgun on their shoulder and no one gave them a second look. There was a time in this country when you could take a shotgun to school and go hunting at the close of the school day and no one gave it a second thought. You don't gain public acceptance by hiding in the shadows. You have a much more civil society when everyone is armed. Just my humble opinion.

Times have changed though Muggs. Can we ever go back?

[muggsy]

To attempt to answer the specific question I would not take my eyes off either the BR carrier or an open carrier. The BR carrier has already proven to me that he's a whack job that demands full attention.

I would watch an open carry belt gun carrier too very closely.

I look for bulges, tell tale mannerisms, guys that adjust their belt or walk swinging only one hand to stabilize a holster gun or a gun in a coat pocket.

Majority are probably just like me and mean no harm, just want to be prepared and be a sheep dog. But if they aren't I don't want any surprises. I don't want to play quick draw.

Hey Colonel, since when did you become a zero tolerance kinda guy? Your thinking sound a bit liberal to me. Just sayin. :)

[b4uqzme]

I don't disagree with you muggsy but let me put it another way.

I sing horribly off key yet I like to sing. But I'm not gonna belt one out in the middle of Chipotle because pretty much everyone isn't gonna like it. I certainly have the freedom to sing. And singing is a good thing. But I choose not to offend my neighbors. Maybe I'll just lightly hum a little.

Or this one.

I believe in free speech and would never consider censoring anyone. Yet it really irks me when people talk in a movie theater. Being in a movie theater does not trump their right to speak but, if they respected their neighbors, they would shut up.

I too yearn for a society that is not so fearful of firearms.

But what I really ache for is a society where people use good judgment.

[chrish]

All because you can legally walk around with your underwear on your head doesn't make it a good idea or normal. Just sayin...

[b4uqzme]

All because you can legally walk around with your underwear on your head doesn't make it a good idea or normal. Just sayin...

Seems like a good practice for a $hitforbrains. Just sayin' (no offense to anyone around here).

[tv_racin_fan]

AM I going to check em out? YES and they may get a second look.

The fact is I check out nearly everyone that walks in the door and some of them get a second and a third look without an open carry firearm. Paranoid? Perhaps I am but I happen to think I owe it to my family to be somewhat aware of my surroundings. My son generally sits in a seat with his back to the wall. He just likes to have everyone and anything that might go down in front of him.

In my mind the question becomes WHY would someone open carry an AR?

Perhaps I am going hunting that day and I am in an automobile with no place to hide an AR. Am I supposed to leave that AR in that auto while I go in and eat lunch just because some tool wont like me open carrying my AR?

Many parts of the US it was legal to open carry and not concealed carry. Then it became illegal to carry at all. It took people protesting to get the right to carry back and these guys are protesting to get the right to open carry a handgun back. Imagine not having the right to open carry a handgun in Texas of all places.

I may not agree with their method but I aint callin em douchbag and nut case and any of the other things I have heard from people who claim to support the second amendment.

[chrish]

My comment was meant somewhat as joke obviously. But there is a pretty wide range of open carry behaviors out there. There are the stories like this Chipotle thing, then there are the (sorry tv_racin_fan) the losers on YouTube doing it and video taping their altercations w/ police. In both cases, my feeling is that it was unnecessarily provocative. But the videotaping to see if you can get a rise out of the cops is just rude and over the line if you ask me. Not illegal. But rude. And a bit on the crazy side.

Funny story. This is gonna sound politically incorrect, but its a true story. Back in the late 70s or early 80s, in my adolescence, I was in a McD's w/ the fam and some guy was standing in line, old west 6 shooter on his hip. I remember thinking even at my young age, what in the world does this guy need that for, there isn't an Apache w/in 1000 miles of this place. Yep, politically incorrect by today's standards, but it was what it was.

Anyway. Its true that times are different and society sees guns differently. Should that stop folks that want to open carry from doing so. No. But should folks that want to open carry be prepared to deal w/ the fallout of their actions. Yep. Should folks that open carry understand that it makes people uncomfortable and what they are doing is on some level disrepectful to those people. Yep. Chipotle and Starbucks have a right to make those calls and we have a right to not visit their establishment. I personally will never go to either one of them again and I feel that legally open carrying an AR or a sidearm is just asking for trouble and shows a lack of consideration for anyone that doesn't like guns.

I ride the fence.

I don't open carry for the reasons mentioned above. Respect for other people who are uncomfortable w/ it...even though I think they are idiots for being uncomfortable w/ it. I think the day has past where if enough people open carry where its legal that people will 'get comfortable' w/ it. Too much water under the bridge, too many countries against us. Half the country (or more) is against us. Maybe not half against guns, but I suspect half (or more) would be against open carrying. Doesn't make it right, just sayin' its a massive uphill battle to beat that horse.

Solution to the problem is to allow Constitutional Carry across the country. If you can legally own it, you can legally carry it anywhere on your person. I think if THAT were the case, alot of the polite open carry crowd and even some of the YouTube provokers would start concealed carrying to keep themselves off the radar and show respect to the non-gun crowd.

It's a tough issue. Maybe I'll just start wearing my underwear on my head instead. Most likely everyone including criminals will avoid me alltogether then.

[ced_56]

I think bawanna and I share similar (ish) views. I will stop short of calling them a whack job...for now. Honestly it all depends. If it is hunting season and they are dressed in hunting gear and carrying rifles I probably wouldn't give them a second look. Otherwise I will watch both closely. But I would probably watch the guy with the bigger gun closer.

[SlowBurn]

There was a time in this country when most men walked around with a rifle or shotgun on their shoulder and no one gave them a second look.


There was a time when everyone walked around naked. Doesn't mean its a good idea now.

[berettabone]

It's best to keep your eyes on all of them................period............

[Photoman]

put PC aside CJB. Would you give the guy with the BR a second thought over the pistol guy? If so why?

I think the answer is that shooters are more accurate with a rifle than a pistol and rifle calibers are much more destructive than pistol calibers.

[knkali]

It's best to keep your eyes on all of them................period............
That kinda sums it up. Everyone is suspect. Be on guard when out and about.

[Bawanna]

Hey Colonel, since when did you become a zero tolerance kinda guy? Your thinking sound a bit liberal to me. Just sayin. :)

You don't hear to well my friend. Were you to say that to me in person you'd be walking around with a puffed up nose.

I look everybody over armed or not but give special attention especially to open carry rifle carriers. If it's alarming to a fellow gun guy, it has to be very alarming to fence sitters and non gun folks.
I just can't think of a good reason to tote a rifle into a store.

Most do it to get attention as mentioned previously to try and condition folks of this time period that it's ok, but I have serious doubts it's gonna happen.
I don't think it helps the gun rights cause one bit neither.

My thoughts have nothing to do with my relation to law enforcement. While most try to find cause to deny purchases or permits I try to make it happen. I want everyone legal and sane to own a gun if they want.

Sadly there are many whack jobs out there, I know this to be true. And until proven otherwise if your totin an AR in Starbucks on your shoulder your in that category.

[knkali]

boys don't make have to stop the car.

[Bawanna]

OK daddy!











But he tried to call me a damn liberal!!:mad:

[wyntrout]

Since the days of the cavemen men have automatically sized up every man they meet. First thoughts are can I beat him... then perhaps SHOULD I, but it is a self-defense mechanism that kept our ancestors alive. Early man had a different thought process for women, but it went something like is she worth a "poke"... and do I just go ahead and do that right now... really basic thought levels... there being no laws or expected gentlemanly behavior. It took a while for such constraining concepts to be developed.

Clubs and rocks depended more on brute strength... but firearms changed that. Bigger guns can trump smaller ones, especially when openly carried, so I would definitely watch and categorize BR carriers as more immediate possible threats.

People with holstered pistols don't bother me, but I do take note... concealed or not... always wondering if the guys "printing" are CWP, cops, or BG's.

It's situational awareness... wanting to be AWARE of possible threats. A lot of the mass shootings started with a guy carrying a BR. I'm definitely going to watch guys like that. I feel like they're wanting to be "scary" and confrontational.

I try to pay attention to everything around me and position myself advantageously in case of some incident. If you "ignore" guys behaving like that, you aren't respecting the "threat".

I carry concealed because I don't want to be at the top of ANYONE'S potential threat list. I want my self defense capability to come as a total surprise to any BG's... not be the priority target when an incident occurs... robbery or assault.

Wynn:)

[muggsy]

Times have changed though Muggs. Can we ever go back?

We can go where ever we want to go. We're Americans, aren't we. Right now the country is going to hell in a hand basket, because too many are too afraid to stand up for what they believe in.

[muggsy]

There was a time when everyone walked around naked. Doesn't mean its a good idea now.

I see nothing wrong with walking around naked. I'm a naturalist. Besides, I have very little to hide. :) The best naked ever was before Eve took a bite out of that damn apple. Things haven't been quite the same since.

[muggsy]

[QUOTE=Bawanna;303501] Were you to say that to me in person you'd be walking around with a puffed up nose.

So you'd hit an old man, huh? Even more reason for me to walk around with a rifle slung over my shoulder. And I thought that you and me was friends. :)

[Bawanna]

Doc told me a few weeks ago when I told him he was talking about old people issues, arthritis, prostrates and such that he felt the need to break it to me that I was also an old people myself. It was shocking. When did that happen?

So we're kind of even up mano mano.

Me and you is friends but you call me a liberal and knkali will have to stop the damn car cause your getting a nose job if I have to bring my lunch and right after my nap.

[muggsy]

So a man enters a crowded restaurant with an AR-15 slung over his shoulder, makes no threatening gestures, takes a seat, orders lunch, enjoys his meal pays his bill and gives the waitress a generous tip. Ooh, scary. Suppose that man was wearing a police uniform. Hmmm, not so scary. Can you say hoplophobic? We're all conditioned aren't we?

[Bawanna]

If it was wearing a police uniform I'd be drawing or diving for the nearest exit. Would have to be a poser intent on evil doings. No cop in this country would enter a restaurant with a slung rifle. Maybe in his hands looking for a bad guy but not slung. Ain't gonna happen.

I don't know exactly what hoplophobic is but when I read it I think of Jocko, why is that? Something to do with sheep?

[JohnR]

The difference is, OC of a pistol would be in a holster, while the rifle would be slung and closer to a "ready" position.

[knkali]

So a man enters a crowded restaurant with an AR-15 slung over his shoulder, makes no threatening gestures, takes a seat, orders lunch, enjoys his meal pays his bill and gives the waitress a generous tip. Ooh, scary. Suppose that man was wearing a police uniform. Hmmm, not so scary. Can you say hoplophobic? We're all conditioned aren't we?
It would seem that
the AR over the shoulder in public gets attention even if legal and probably much more so than an OC pistol.

[muggsy]

Doc told me a few weeks ago when I told him he was talking about old people issues, arthritis, prostrates and such that he felt the need to break it to me that I was also an old people myself. It was shocking. When did that happen?

So we're kind of even up mano mano.

Me and you is friends but you call me a liberal and knkali will have to stop the damn car cause your getting a nose job if I have to bring my lunch and right after my nap.

You sure are getting testy in yer old age. You ought to try to mellow out like me and my old pal Jocko. :)

[wyntrout]

I'm with Bawanna on the cop carrying a long gun... he would have a reason to up his armament and I would be looking for the reason and looking for possible cover.

Here's two fine specimens of the "Hey, look at me... I can legally do this! (and I'm overcompensating for insecurities and other inadequacies) groups.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/clareoconnor/files/2014/05/gunschipotle.jpeg

Sorry about the extra ads and such... just used the photo URL and http://kahrtalk.com/images/editor/insertimage.gif.

Wynn:)

[muggsy]

It would seem that
the AR over the shoulder in public gets attention even if legal and probably much more so than an OC pistol.

It would sure get my attention, but as soon as I saw that the fella meant no harm, I probably strike up a conversation with him on the merits the 5.56 over the .223. I guess it's all in how you look at things.

[muggsy]

I'm with Bawanna on the cop carrying a long gun... he would have a reason to up his armament and I would be looking for the reason and looking for possible cover.

Here's two fine specimens of the "Hey, look at me... I can legally do this! (and I'm overcompensating for insecurities other inadequacies) groups.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/clareoconnor/files/2014/05/gunschipotle.jpeg

Sorry about the extra ads and such... just used the photo URL and http://kahrtalk.com/images/editor/insertimage.gif.

Wynn:)

Can't say that I'm impressed with their choice in fashion, but there guns ain't bad.

[Bawanna]

You don't need to have my profiling skills to tag those two.

Probably single digit IQ's.

Just the poster children we need for gun rights and converting the hopalongphobs or whatever Muggsy called me awhile ago.

[muggsy]

Ya look at most bikers with their colors and tattoos and ya say what an a-hole, but then you run into someone like Jocko and find out that they are pure sweetness. Ya just can't judge a book by its cover.

[wyntrout]

That was a term that I though of using... "poster children".

Wynn:D

[muggsy]

Knkali, I got to thank you for opening this thread. I haven't laughed this hard in months. :)

[garyb]

I guess I would give more attention to a BR guy and the reason why is simple. As comfortable as I am with guns and being around guys with guns, in NY there is no open carry. Soooo, if I see a long arm in public, I am going to be more attentive to it. The issue of open vs ccw is applicable, just because it is different in different states. If I see a side arm open, my initial reaction is that it should be concealed and just happens to be showing. However, if a long gun is displayed at a store, I am on a higher alert...."what the heck is that guy doing with a long arm in here?"...would be my initial reaction. Not something we see typically. Hopefully the issue of open vs ccw expectations explains the reason for me being more alert to the long arm display.