Some KSG hands on

[CJB]

After long wait.... a KSG with my name on the invoice came to my FFL. I picked it up Friday.

Sorry, but I've not been able to go fire it yet.

But, I've gone through the field stripping three times (for familiarity), and gotten to know its mechanism, and worked three complete magazine charges of live ammo through it.

Here's my first take.

I'd call the build quality very good, certainly adequate for the job the KSG is tasked to perform. The fit of barrelextension to receiver is tight. The fit of bolt to barrel extension is tight, with just a little fore and aft play, which must be there in order to ensure locking under dirty conditions. Its about the same, or less than the play you'd see in an 870.

The plastic parts have undergone some revision since the beginning of the production run. There are actually four versions of the KSG that can think of.

Version 1 - the first run, used as demos and for testing with users. This is the version that had the weird slide action, whereby you had get your finger off the trigger before the slide would cycle. I don't think any made it to market.

Version 2 - the first marketed version, had a squred forearm and no ammunition indication windows in the magazines

Version 3 - like version 2, but added magazine capacity indication holes in the magazines, holders for the takedown pins during disassembly, ambidextrous and easy to use slide release, and slightly modified bottom rail on the forearm.

Version 4 - like version 3, but a more rounded forearm, losing the squared off handhold, and some reinforcement of the forearm where it connects to the operating rods.

Most out there are version 3, as of late, version 4 is on the market, but I have no idea when the running change was made. Mine is production number 37,xxx and reportedly they're cranking out 200 of the KSG's a day.

I'm happy with the build quality, and supposedly Kel-Tec is working on an upgrade to the forearm, which is having issues with rail breakage when used with longer vertical grips. Its a plastic rail - hopefully - they'll come up with a modified forearm that has aluminum for the rail, just like the top rail.

I ran 45 rounds through the magazines and chamber. Each mag holds 7 rounds for a total of 15 shots with a charged chamber.

Zero malfunctions. The KSG was held upside down, zero malfunctions and it threw heavy live rounds across the room. Normal ejection is downward. Thats it. Zero, nada, it worked. You hear stories, but... like Karh, I'm guessing the vast majority go out the door without an issue.

There have been some low brass related feeding issues. The rounds I used were low brass target loads.... no issues.... I'm happy!

Forget about sighting down the top rail and using the KSG as a wingshooter. Aint gonna happen unless you got a rubber neck. You need an elevated rail if you want to do that.

On the other hand, MagPul MBUS sights are great on the KSG, and there's a set sitting on mine right now.

The trigger pull has a lot of engagement, but is not heavy, and is glass smooth on mine. Much better than my 870's. I see no issues with the trigger, and could shoot slugs on paper with that trigger, if needed.

Managed to score 175 rounds of 2-3/4 00 buck for $80 (plus $16 shipping). So I'll have some ammo for a while. Looking for the cute little 1-3/4 inch slugs.

With the 1-3/4 inch slugs, you get nearly full power ammo and a whoppin' TWENTY FIVE ROUNDS of 12 guage slugs in the KSG. Talk about a gun you can load on Sunday and shoot all week!

I'll get some pictures later, have some more comments too.

[Longitude Zero]

Interested in your shooting impressions. In my raea the cheapest you can find one, if you can find one is $1199. There is NO WAY I am paying anywhere near that much for a Kel-Tec anything.

[CJB]

Theyre under a grand online.

[Longitude Zero]

Theyre under a grand online.



Get it own to no more that $750 and I might be interested After I read Cameron Hopkins excellent article in Combat Tactics my interest cooled substantially.

[CJB]

Got a link?

[Jollyrogers]

LGS gets them regularly for 999. A friend has one and he came over and we shot it a bunch. I did not like it. Another fellow I know had the forward slide rail break with a fwd vertical grip on it, while his finger was on the trigger and shot his hand when he tightened his trigger hand up trying to support it I guess, he pulled the trigger. I have a PMR30, but won't own a KSG.

[Longitude Zero]

CJB it was not online. The mag is at my parents lake house. When I get back from vacation I will get it from them and scan it in and send it to you.

[CJB]

well maybe a quck Longitude Zero synopsis would be ok, that way everyone is enlightened?

There are some more things I don't like.

First is the color of the followers. We need some dayglo color there, pink even.

Next is the spring used under the double feed eliminator at the front of its attachment. The spring serves as anti rattle and you gotta depress the DFE when taking the shotgun fully apart. The spring is a thin squarish flat spring about an inch and an eighth square. Its one of those sorta blue color case finish looking springs - that rust up like a son of a butch. I took mine out, coated it with TW25b and stuck it back in. I'm thinking even regular Krylon paint would be better than a bare spring. Nit picky stuff really. The takedown pin's retainer springs are not shaped well, but that was an easy fix to allow them just a bit more protrusion.

I can eventually see the choke tube adapter on this shotgun, and a MagPul hand stop (not the angled grip, but the flat handstop).

Ran four more double magazines full of low brass ammo through it today. Not a hiccup. I could be that live fire will deorm the ammo and such... ya know all sorts of issues turn up, but so far... nary a real concern, just little nittys. I wont pay $50 for a shaped piece of plastic to cover the receiver. I can see me getting my friend Jenny to help with a custom made leather cheekpiece, sort of in M1Garand/M14 sniper varient homage.

[Longitude Zero]

I'll try to recall the authors high points of the KSG vs a full stocked shotgun.


1. KSG has poor balance aka it does NOT point naturally.
2. You cannot easily change from one mag tube to the other w/o dismounting the weapon from your shoulder.
3. You cannot "combat load" the KSG like the 870 when out of ammo.
4. Short stroking cannot be field cleared the weapon must be disassembled. Hopkins found the KSG short stroke regularily.
5. Shooting from the hip or not having the KSG up against your shoulder led to several jams.


http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/01/11/gun-review-kel-tec-ksg-again/


http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/the-new-kel-tec-ksg-stay-away

[CJB]

Jam and short stroke issues were resolved with alteration of the timing of ejection vs release prior to feed. I literally cannot make mine jam. You can clearly see unlock, extraction, ejection, release, on back stroke.... and feed and locking on forward stroke. If you short stoke - no jam. Instead you get no release from the magazine, and close the slide on an empty chamber. Not good, but better than a jam. The 870 is subject to short stroke too... I know.... doves escaped!


I had my serious, serious, doubts and tried to get the shotgun to jam and fail. I could not.

There is an issue with "no feed" on low brass shells, where the lip of the rim gets stuck on the release. Like the Kahr "slide bevel", the correction has been found in the very subtle rounding of the edge of the release. I have no idea why high brass doesn't catch and snag, but... once the release has a little radius, it works great on low brass. Got that from the KTOG forum.... checked my release, and see that it already has a factory radius on it (no square edge).

They got a problem with the bottom rail breaking. Its poly and the long vertical grips do that. Dunno what the fix is... but they're working on it. That seems to be the reported issues so far on the latest variation.

Hope that helps!

[CJB]

By the way, those links are reviews from 2011 and 2012 respectively. Things have been corrected. To be fair, the first released models were pretty bad. Remember - released in fall 2011. So by May 2012 on the second review, thats still a first release variation. Kel-Tek has been upgrading those at no cost to owners.

[Longitude Zero]

By the way, those links are reviews from 2011 and 2012 respectively. Things have been corrected. To be fair, the first released models were pretty bad. Remember - released in fall 2011. So by May 2012 on the second review, thats still a first release variation. Kel-Tek has been upgrading those at no cost to owners.


True but the upgrades are not quite at Kel Tec expense. They were not paying shipping costs and IMHO they should have considering what a POS the first ones were. As to Hopkins review he had a version 3 weapon so his valid criticisms are still valid. I know senior LEO firearms instructors that have T/E'd the current generation KSG and found ZERO reasons to recommend changing from Remington and Mossberg shotguns currently carried. They had many failures and durability is not up to snuff. As a fun gun enjoy. I know of no LEO or other firearms instructors and experts that would take it into harms way and trust their lives to it.

[CJB]

I wouldn't change from a Mossy or 870 either. Why change? The KSG is a different thing in its entirety.

Hey the video on You-Tube (and the KT site) shows how you do tactical reloads and magazine switching without dismounting.... !

I don't see this thing failing any time soon - unless the plastic just crumbles. The mechanism is just too simple, and now that they've adjusted the curves on the lifters (seemingly) to eject a bit quicker, and adjusted the angle on the release to let one out of the mags later.... seems like a good thing.

If ya don't like it, don't get one. But, I'm happy with mine!

[berettabone]

A very cool looking firearm, but I would stick to a 870 or 1100.........................;)

[CJB]

With me its not a matter of stick to, or not stick to.

A lot of folks seem to think that a shotgun like the KSG is some miracle replacement for an 870, or other pump, or auto.

Its not.

Its totally different. First its a bullpup. And it has a huge magazine capacity, and feeds the 1-3/4 mini loads just fine. And, it frankly sucks as a conventional shotgun - you just cannot get your eye to sight down the top of the receiver and rail, unless you happen to an anhinga. You gotta use it with sights, or optics, or a laser, some comination of those. Its just different. An alternative.

Definately not a replacement.

There are some really BS statements, even made by Kel-Tec themselves. The one that grabs me is that you can shoot two different types of ammo in each of the magazine tubes. Well you CAN, but..... in the heat and excitement of things, I cannot imagine anyone thinking that they're gonna change ammo, actually do it by flipping the selector, racking out the unused (undesired) ammo from the chamber, then firing a shot, or at least prepare to fire a shot. I just don't buy that idea or scenario - except maybe, in a very tightly controlled situation. But if its that tightly controlled, why do you need alternatives at all?

In my way of thinking, the KSG makes it home as a SHTF shotgun, with a large capacity and simple operation, very small size, and rifle-like pointing with a shotgun pattern. I would imagine that a tunnel-rat would have liked to have a KSG. The guys in WWI trenches would have liked to have a KSG rather than their '97 Winchesters. If you were firing rubber disks at a riotous crowd, you'd want a KSG. If you wanted an anti-boarding gun on your yacht, you might consider it too.

If you want to shoot ducks, doves, or clay.... you don't want it.

Saturday, I'm gonna head out to the one range that will let me shoot "at will", just to run ammo through it.

After that I'll probably pattern it, just to see the point of impact vs sights, make some adjustments. And, hopefully, I'll get a picture or two out as well. The KSG is literally the same length as my 7-1/2 inch barreled AR pistol (with KX3 flash director on it).

[Longitude Zero]

I would imagine that a tunnel-rat would have liked to have a KSG.


Valid points. IMHO for all around all situation defense that AR pistol is VASTLY superior to the KSG for at least the reason it can accurately fire out to a greater range. I have a coworker who was a tunnel rat in Vietnam and I asked him and he said HELL NO. The 1911 was more than adequate.

[johnh]

Ran one when they first came out. I found the recoil brutal when using standard velocity buckshot. Maybe low recoil loads would be a different story. Neat idea, but I prefer the Vepr-12. Of course I am an AK guy so may be biased. ;)

[CJB]

Er..... theres video of small framed girls shootin slugs with it.

I duuno. Full report next weekend. Buckshot should be in then.