jams with pics ( an appeal to my Kahr brothers and sisters )

[olympicmotorcars]

O.K. I am just about at my wits end with the Glock 27 and Walther PPS.

They both continue to jam . does not seem to matter which magazine. the Walther seems to jam on the last round usually, but not always.

The Glock jams about the middle round in the magazine usually.

everything has been cleaned, lubed, taken apart, reassembled, feed ramps have been polished, chambers throated, new magazines, new springs everywhere, I really do not know why they have both suddenly started doing this. My Kahr PM 40 continues to run fine. ( after my rampectomy via Kahr service dept.).

Gunsmiths are telling me it is a "limp wrist " problem. Why now suddenly? I am doing nothing different. I would think my little PM 40 would be more prone to limp wristing than these other two. To be completely honest I do not have a "death grip" on them when firing, but if a gun is going to be that finicky , I cannot use it as a carry weapon anyway.
Also, these are Gold Dot 165 grain jams. but it is not specific to just Gold Dots, they also will jam with other ammo.

I know a lot of you are pretty smart and have a lot of experience so what do you all think the pictures are indicating?10490

10491

10492

10493

[Bawanna]

Wow my first move would have been mag springs but you've done that.

And two unrelated guns suddenly giving issues that didn't give issues before?
Did they ever run good and now are acting out or have they never been good?

I have a guy at work with a G30 that he got a different caliber barrel for. I'm drawing a blank on what it is. But it was having jams.
The mag spring that came with the kit was super strong and stiff. He was having jam misfeeds and found via the net a fella that added a second mag spring and it cured it. Seems like over kill to me but if it works.

If they were good and now they are suddenly bad that's a clue, not precisely sure what the clue is but I'm leaning towards you rather than it.

We got a lot better heads than me around here. We'll figure this thing out. You can take that to the bank and draw interest, not much but a little.

[olympicmotorcars]

Wow my first move would have been mag springs but you've done that.

And two unrelated guns suddenly giving issues that didn't give issues before?
Did they ever run good and now are acting out or have they never been good?

I have a guy at work with a G30 that he got a different caliber barrel for. I'm drawing a blank on what it is. But it was having jams.
The mag spring that came with the kit was super strong and stiff. He was having jam misfeeds and found via the net a fella that added a second mag spring and it cured it. Seems like over kill to me but if it works.

If they were good and now they are suddenly bad that's a clue, not precisely sure what the clue is but I'm leaning towards you rather than it.

We got a lot better heads than me around here. We'll figure this thing out. You can take that to the bank and draw interest, not much but a little.

Bwanna, they both ran 100 percent for awhile. The Glock was trouble free for about 4 years ( maybe about 3000 rounds ) , The Walther was trouble free for about 18 months ( maybe 1000 rounds ).

When they were both new, I purposely tried to hold them loosely and tried to make them limp wrist jam, but they ran fine then.

What is so upsetting to me is the time and effort (not to mention money) I have invested in both of them with various things, such as night sights, extra magazines, holsters, lots of ammo, etc. Now I am not sure I will ever trust either of them again, so they are next to worthless to me as carry guns.

The Glock is nothing special, but I was really falling in love with the Walther.

[olympicmotorcars]

Also, if you notice, both jams are "nose up" against the top of the feed ramp. They will not clear with a simple tap and rack. You have to drop the magazine and retract the slide so the round will fall out the bottom of the magazine well.

I just wonder if this type of jam is typical of a "limp wrist" jam?

[wyntrout]

My P40 was jamming like that. It was the extractor. I radiused the surfaces of the extractor that came in contact with the cartridge rim and the jams went away. I did try a lot of other things first, especially polishing inside the chamber mouth.

The round would be caught at about 45° at the top of the chamber and when I would just barely relieve the slide's pressure on the round, there would be a click as the round popped up under the extractor and then the slide would close easily and chamber ready to fire.

I used a stone, file, and sandpaper to smoothe the edges of the extractor. That may not be your problem, though

Wynn:)

[leftysixty]

Given the mileage on both guns, I would agree that the first place to look on both would be damage/wear on the extractors. Maybe even a scar/mark on the breach face.

Test by removing the slide and then sliding a round up under the extractor, as though it was moving up from the magazine.

Look for chips/burrs ect. on the extractor. And check some of your fired cases for strange marks/damage.

First glance at the Glock picture would make me think that the recoil spring is weak. Of course if the round coming up from the mag is slowed by dragging on something or slowed by a weak spring, you will have the same kind of jam.

If the gun worked before with the same ammo then something is damaged, bent, or worn. Most likely with recoil spring, extractor, or magazine.

If you replaced springs, were they the correct ones? And were they correctly installed. (mag springs for instance can be installed upside down or wrong side to the front of the follower).

Just some ideas of where to look. Don't give up, it's probably just some simple little thing that you havn't discovered yet.

Let us know what you find. I'm sure that others will chime in shortly.

[olympicmotorcars]

The extractors are something I have not considered. I replaced the extractor on the Walther before I was having this type of jam, because I was having a failure to extract problem with it, causing a double feed jam. After I replaced it along with the extractor spring. I cured the failure to extract jam, but then started seeing this type of jam.

The Glock extractor is the original one that has always been in the gun.

The jammed rounds did have a nasty looking scar on the brass. I did not inspect any of the fired rounds brass.

As far as the springs ( recoil , and magazine ). They are all new factory springs. I even bought 1 completely new magazine for the Glock and Walther each. The magazine springs are oriented correctly, you cannot even put in a Walther magazine spring incorrectly , as it clips to the magazine baseplate in a very specific way.

Is it typical to see problems in firearms like these with a few thousand rounds through them? I know if you read and believe everything you see on the Glock forum , everyone thinks they are invincible and will never need service

[Pointblank]

Do they do the same thing when someone else shoots them?

[Bawanna]

Good thinking Pointblank.

With two different guns suddenly having the same issues at the same time there's something fishy going on.

Too many coincidences. It could happen.

I'm focusing on extractors myself. I'd look at those close.

[hardluk1]

beat me to it. The pps never drew enough interest to even read up on but the glock ! If it throws fired brass well and runs fine with first and last rounds its not the extractor. If it does the same with other mags let a glock shooting buddy give it a go and try a mag from 23 or 22 in it. You cleaned and smoothed the followers edges too but did you check them for a tight spots. Maybe a run of bad mags. .

[GROTMAN]

you're holding it in the wrong hand..:o :)
http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10491&thumb=1&d=1401849034 (http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10491&d=1401849034)

[olympicmotorcars]

I am going to look at the extractors closely this weekend if I get some time. I was so irritated at the 2 guns, I decided to go old school. Here is what I bought a couple months ago and have been carrying almost every day since. Smith and Wesson 640 pro series. 5 rounds of 357 peace of mind.

[yqtszhj]

You know I have come to appreciate a revolver recently. Bought a S&W J frame in March I think it was and that thing never leaves my pocket. It's only the second revolver I've had (that I can remember anyway) and it's a keeper.

Keep the .45 close by though.

[100percent]

Is this the same ammo that you have been using? I have found that shorter ammo gets released too early, before the bullet nose is in the chamber, it sometimes leaves the cartridge nose up.

My Glock 27 has a lot softer extractor than my PM40,

The extractor is a good possibility too.
To help evaluate your extractor try pushing loose rounds into the empty slide from below.

[muggsy]

Check the magazine feed lips. They may need adjusting. Use a pair of round nose pliers and turn them in just a bit. A very little adjustment goes a long way. You can slowly close the slide by hand with the recoil spring removed and watch the action.

[olympicmotorcars]

Is this the same ammo that you have been using? I have found that shorter ammo gets released too early, before the bullet nose is in the chamber, it sometimes leaves the cartridge nose up.

My Glock 27 has a lot softer extractor than my PM40,

The extractor is a good possibility too.
To help evaluate your extractor try pushing loose rounds into the empty slide from below.

Yes , same ammo , 165 grain Gold Dot

[olympicmotorcars]

Check the magazine feed lips. They may need adjusting. Use a pair of round nose pliers and turn them in just a bit. A very little adjustment goes a long way. You can slowly close the slide by hand with the recoil spring removed and watch the action.

Another good idea, I will try this.

[olympicmotorcars]

I have noticed the PPS will not chamber a round unless you lock the slide back then release it to slam a round home. It always jams if you try to slowly rack it by hand. Sort of like my PM 40 did when it was new. The PPS has always done this since new and I just assumed it was normal for it.