CW40 Explodes after 250Rds

[Kahrgoesboom]

I bought a brand new CW40 and took it to the range twice and the gun explodes in my hand right after slide slams forward. Blast blew out side of firearm and magazine. Went to local hospital where they pulled pieces of the grip out of my hand and was denied on warranty from both KAHR Arms, then by Davidson's Gallery of Gun because I sent gun to KAHR first. I am stuck with a paper weight and 3 magazines. Since then the gun shop I bought it from will not order any more Kahrs due to this issue of the firearm not being replaced.


Found 2 others with same issue and was not covered. Seeing if this happens often?

[JohnR]

Hard to believe Kahr would deny warranty service for that. They must have given a reason.

[Bawanna]

Did they give you any reason why they wouldn't warranty it?

Handloads? Defective factory load.

That type of a blow up is usually a hot round of some fashion or another.

Good information on the Davidsons warranty. I figured there had to be some real fine print in their warranty. Basically not worth the paper it's written on.

We've heard of a couple blow ups, I believe Wyntrout had one blow a side plate, was using some questionable ammo that he no longer uses.

Your the first one I've heard of that was injured enough to need a doctor. I'm sorry to hear about that part.

[Kahrgoesboom]

Kahr gave 3 possible reasons that their warranty will not cover. (Hot load, Bad Casing, Squib) I went ahead when they sent it back and send it to multiple gunsmiths who determined a out of battery detonation cause that amount of damage cause of how the brass was deformed. No +p ammo used in firearm.

[Bawanna]

Sounds like something the ammo manufacturer should address.

Did they offer any kind of price to fix the gun? The side plate is designed to blow off in a high pressure situation. So the cost to repair may not be too horribly bad depending on what all else was damaged of course.

[wyntrout]

I was using factory remanufactured ammo and had about a half dozen defective cases that blew out just above the case rim/grove. When it happened on a second case I went through the last 140 rounds of a 1,000-round case and found 5 of those cases. After blowing out an extractor in my PM9, then the sideplate and extractor in my P9, I thought to shoot up the remaining rounds with my K9 and blew the extractor out on that. I broke down and destroyed the remaining rounds with that case brand.

Yours is the most violent and destructive instance that I've heard of. It sounds like an over-charged reload, OR a second round fired after a squib where the bore was not checked for an obstruction... all usually from improper reloads.

Reloads void the Kahr warranty, so I don't know that you have any recourse... unless the ammo used was standard new ammo from a reliable manufacturer.

I don't "accuse" you of using reloads, but too many are quick to blame the pistol or the manufacturer when the user doesn't follow the manufacturer's recommendations.

Wynn

[Bawanna]

Well said Wyn. My concern now is getting your gun back up and running so you don't have that paper weight laying around.

Second only to your hand healing and getting back to 100%.

[FLBri]

Just a quick response on Davidson's warranty ...
I can understand them not honoring the warranty AFTER the gun was sent to the manufacturer and than denied .... Somewhat.

But I have had them honor a warranty a few years ago, when I simply broke a trigger spring on an NAA Guardian. The sent me a new pistol and I had even started sanding/refinishing the slide (to a polish eventually).

[Kahrgoesboom]

$540ish to repair the firearm, Bought new at gunshop at cost $263.99.I am good about checking for squibs or any ammo issues. We noticed after the gun blew apart that the guide rod had been worn down a lot over the course of the 250rds.. The few theories I seen for the out of batteries is poor machining causing firing pins to stick and the fact the twisted feed ramp in conjunction with the sharp slide bottom could cause rounds to go off.

[TenorTim]

Just curious, Are you left or right handed? I've been concerned that the "pressure relief panel" on my CM9 would potentially cause more serious injury for me (being left handed) than a right hander. My entire palm is covering the panel who's purpose according to kahr is to "pop out" in the event of high pressure buildup and prevent bodily injury...
More on my thread here: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=23167

[Kahrgoesboom]

Right handed, Panel scraped trigger finger very nicely

[warbird1]

What kind of ammo? If factory then what brand? Reloads? Inquiring minds want to know. I have several hundred rounds thru my CW40 with zero problems. High quality factory ammo only. What the manual says...

[wyntrout]

I know that it's not for everyone, but perhaps an early slide disassembly and thorough cleaning to include polishing of the striker and its channel/tunnel could give peace of mind that there's no manufacturing debris and that there IS free movement of the striker and proper operation of the safety block.

It's not really that hard and the instructions can be found in several places. You SHOULDN'T have to do that, but I've found debris from machining in new pistols... notably S&W revolvers, that moved around and sometimes caused the cylinder to lock up... a life threatening situation in self defense.

The lower leading edge of the slide... the stripper... should be beveled and have nothing that would dent a primer.

It would seem that Kahr could figure out where the cartridge was when it was fired and possibly you have a claim against the ammo manufacturer. The "C" models are inexpensive and can be found for $299.99 to over $500. I had to really hold back comment when a guy recently listed a CW40 upper for $250!

In any case, I'm sorry that you had this experience and were injured. We're all conjecturing without any visual evidence and I don't mean to imply any wrong-doing on your part.

All of my Kahrs have had a few problems, but between Kahr, myself and others help here, I got the pistols working to my satisfaction and find them perfect for my concealed carry needs, though I do have other pistols that are better suited to home defense or where larger size need not be concealed.

Wynn

[Kahrgoesboom]

I'll try to post up pictures. I was using a mixture of different brands to know if it does not like any certain brands. I know it was magtech as well as others. I have a stockpile of ammo for my FNS-40.

[hardluk1]

Sound to much like an ammo problem. production numbers are so high there going to be failures from time to time. If you can read the case head contact the company and see if they will help you. All the guide rounds wear to sort of a ruffled finish but not an issue. Even if it was out of chamber it would likely be do to bad ammo not a failure from the recoil spring to seat the round with in spec ammo specially at 250 rounds.


Ammo quality with cheaper practice ammo is the main reason I started reloading again.

[Kahrgoesboom]

I tend to steer clear of cheap ammo, Winchester White Box is #1 to stay away from had many problems in my S&W with that one.

[h2ohhh]

I've had one FTF on my CW45 since break in and it was Winchester white box. Blazer and American Eagle ball ammo has been flawless. I don't reload and I'm not trusting reloads done by anyone. Men make mistakes. I ain't paying for them.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[muggsy]

I'm not getting in on this one, fellas. My spider senses are tingling.

[muggsy]

Aw, what the hell. As the slide comes forward on a kahr pistol the striker is captured and retracted to preloaded position and prevented from going forward by the striker block. It is virtually impossible for a slam fire to occur. In addition, if the slide is out of battery by as little as 1/8 of an inch the trigger will not release the striker. We've been over this before. I'm betting on the ammunition as being the cause of the kaboom and not a defect in the firearm. If the firearm had been defective Kahr would have replaced it. See the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYRHpolEC_Y&playnext=1&list=PL9C885DAED1AA2EC2&feature=results_main

[TenorTim]

Pics of the gun, casing and injury would all be very helpful in this investigation... Please post.

[CJB]

Muggsy is correct. Its virtually impossible for a slam fire.

The original poster got a NEW pistol from Davidsons for $263.99.... seems too low for a new one.

I checked with Davidsons. Their replacement covers DEFECTIVE firearms for the life of the original end user the firearm was transferred to. It does not cover kabooms clearly caused by defective ammo. Please do not knock Davidsons for not taking the pistol back. Davidsons has no policy about sending the firearm to the manufacturer voiding their own policy. The original poster is defective in his assertion that sending the pistol to Kahr voided Davidson's policy - which also happens to be the best in the industry (for a price of course).

This is clearly an ammo related problem. I doubt seriously that it happened on a "slam fire".

The original poster also claimed that a hospital took pieces of the gun out of his hand, but it was a bad scratch on his trigger finger. Well... which was it?

And, the original poster clearly has an agenda, based on his user name and subject matter of his posts.

Sorry your gun went kaboom, sir. Don't blame Kahr. Don't blame Davidson's. Blame the ammo.

[kerby9mm]

Isn't this situation something like the guy who's k9 did the same thing? Kahr wanted x$ to fix it & he sent the ammo to the maker. My mk9 firing pin broke while dry firing & was protruding through the breechface the trigger no longer pulled the striker back to release the pin. When I pulled the slide off I had to push the firing pin in because it was stuck forward. Kahr fixed it but odd things can happen. If it broke while firing & was stuck forward could it not slamfire?

[muggsy]

It's highly unlikely that just the unsupported tip of a broken striker could cause a slam fire. If the tip was protruding from the breech face it's unlikely that the cartridge would be able to feed from the magazine properly.

[kerby9mm]

That makes sense. It would be hard for the base of the round to slide up the breech face.

[CJB]

Even if it did, the striker relies on its own momentum to fire a round. That is, if the striker was sticking out, its spring is much less powerful than the recoil spring and the striker would retract on slide closure.

No slam fire here. There is an essential piece of evidence as of yet unrevealed.

There was a guy once, who insisted - and I mean INSISTED that his squib was not discernable, and that the empty case from the squib ejected, and a new round fed into the chamber as well. We know, that this is not possible. Under scrutiny, that poster finally admitted he hand racked the damaging round into the chamber. Human nature being what it is, he is commended for coming forth with the truth. Sometimes its hard to swallow.

[Kahrgoesboom]

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t97/mcduffie222/1620749_10203350188345801_8021580091506149707_n_zp sf65e5382.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/mcduffie222/media/1620749_10203350188345801_8021580091506149707_n_zp sf65e5382.jpg.html)


http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t97/mcduffie222/1601307_10203350188145796_656221563875067171_n_zps cd16fc2a.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/mcduffie222/media/1601307_10203350188145796_656221563875067171_n_zps cd16fc2a.jpg.html)

[jocko]

no way a slam fire, never been one incident that ever proved that the gun was responsible. Bad round certainly. Buyt WTf lets blame davidsons or lets blame kahr, certainly no owner can ever be responsible.

[CJB]

Yup, thats pretty much was a knocked out sideplate looks like when pressure from a seperation on a defective round hits the innards.

So, which one of those pieces did the hospital remove from your hand? Or was it a scratch?

[jocko]

Isn't this situation something like the guy who's k9 did the same thing? Kahr wanted x$ to fix it & he sent the ammo to the maker. My mk9 firing pin broke while dry firing & was protruding through the breechface the trigger no longer pulled the striker back to release the pin. When I pulled the slide off I had to push the firing pin in because it was stuck forward. Kahr fixed it but odd things can happen. If it broke while firing & was stuck forward could it not slamfire?

that for #1 the round i the magazine wold not feed up correctly behind the extracor with that pin sticking out. It woould have to jam pronto. Certainly "anything" could happen but in this case 99.995% will tellyou no way . so do we hold Davidson liable or do we hold Kahr liable, or doe sthe owner hav esome involvement in this to. If its a reload, then it is a mute poit. If it is a new round I would save the box and contact the maker to see what they think about it. the phoots will show them what they need to see also. these ammo makers certainly know the inner workings of kahrs and how that possbility of a slam fire can or cannot happen, so they will have to consider it could be their ammo thaty did it.

I did not read all the posts, so have no clue is this was new or reloads in ammo, sorry abut that.:Amflag2:

[ESAFO]

Yet just another reason why i will not shoot reloads, every time i read about somebody's gun blowing up I pat myself on the back for spending the few extra dollars to buy factory loads.

[Longitude Zero]

Wow a school on gunsmithing. Impressive. LOL.

[warbird1]

Yet just another reason why i will not shoot reloads, every time i read about somebody's gun blowing up I pat myself on the back for spending the few extra dollars to buy factory loads.
Where's the like button when you need one? Agree completely!

[ESAFO]

Where's the like button when you need one? Agree completely!
You would've thought that with said improvements that would've been a added feature just like other forums have, a THANKS or LIKE option has been mentioned in the past.

[RRP]

"Like" buttons promote popularity contests. You can go to FB for that.

[ESAFO]

"Like" buttons promote popularity contests. You can go to FB for that.

Gun forums are a man's FB.

[RRP]

Gun forums are a man's FB.

...without the drama, which is exactly why we don't need to emulate other social media.

[DavidS]

Nothing wrong with just saying "Thanks" or "I like that".

[RRP]

Nothing wrong with just saying "Thanks" or "I like that".

I agree and it's more genuine than clicking a button.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program. Pardon the thread drift.

[ESAFO]

where's the like button when you need one? Agree completely!


nothing wrong with just saying "thanks" or "i like that".


i agree and it's more genuine than clicking a button.
THANK YOU :yo:

[hardluk1]

Does anyone see a recoil spring in the OP's photo. I don't . Maybe my eyes but I see the barrel recoil rod but no spring.

Like others hard to see any broken plastic.

[CJB]

Wish this thread would stay on topic....

[RRP]

Wish this thread would stay on topic....

That would make it the first.

[downtownv]

Count your blessings that you are able to tell us about this...


Time to Get hold of Rabinowitz, Rabinowitiz and Rabinowitz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf1TjBRaNbc

[Kahrgoesboom]

Recoil spring was found. The guide rod was massively ate up from the spring. Theres a slight bulge at the top of the chamber where it looks like the bullet was aimed up when it went off. I'll take more photos when I have a chance and post them up.

As far as injury, Pieces of the grip blew off into hand, some burn on hand, and where plate blew out scraped the index finger nicely, with just a little powder burn on my face.

[hardluk1]

Your guide rod being round is like everyones guide rod. Little roll topped ripples , not a big deal. I have a 1000 rounds now thru my tp40 with some very hot underwood loads and it like my cw have a wavy guide rod with around 1600+. If it fired with a round in transition from ramp to chamber its an ammo issue . High primer struck buy the breach face and fired ?

[muggsy]

Wish this thread would stay on topic....

Why should this thread be any different from the others?